Hey everyone. I’ve got an opportunity to work in the ethanol industry for a young, growing company. It sounds like they have a large amount of growth planned over the next couple years. However, I’m hesitant simply because I’ve read a lot of “bad press” on ethanol. This is not meant to be political and if it gets that way, it will get dusted.
What I am looking for is opinions whether Ethanol is here to stay??
I would say ethanol is here to stay. With all the new plants being built, I can’t see us getting away from it anytime soon. I went to school in Marshall and there is a steady stream of corn being hauled in all day. I have a few relatives who are farmers, and they have made significant investments to meet the market demands. Most of them have also bought new vehicles that run on E85. Around here it isn’t that common, but in SW MN almost every town sells it. I will not get into whether or not I agree with all of it, but I do love driving my Uncle’s new boat and riding in his new truck. Thank you ethanol. 
I do not think it is the final answer but I do believe that it will be here for quite sometime. the way that oil companies are pooring money into this they will not let it die until they make some good money back on it. my .02
Kooty, I am in the transportation and logistics industry moving machinery and infrastructures to build these plants and they are going solid with years of contracts already awarded many going into 2010 or so. Just like the wind generator industry you probably cannot go wrong for job security but there is more to a job change. My .02 cents.
Ethanol and even more so Bio Diesel.
Anyone see the Myth Buster episode where than ran filtered fry oil in a diesel car? Ran just fine and only lost 2-3% of the mileage from the switch from straight diesel. Pretty amazing!
-J.
We saw a car the other day at a gas station up here in St Cloud and it ran on old/used fry oil. Very cool technology.
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We saw a car the other day at a gas station up here in St Cloud and it ran on old/used fry oil. Very cool technology.
On the Myth Buster episode, they made no mods to the car. Just switched fuel.
-J.
My 2 cents on the subject is two fold. I think ethanol will be only short term. But it wil be a good short term. More like a fad in the fuel industry. But I think the future fuel industry must find some other kinds of fuel. The rising costs of gas are uncalled for and will keep rising if we do not find something else. Or we need to tap into our own oil fields. We are to reliant on other foreign countries that basically screw us, and our government don’t really care as they receive benefits from these companies. I think the future will be found in Hydrogen or some kind of fuel that has not been discovered yet. One thing about ethanol, it doesn’t need to made from just corn…..other countries are using this method quite well (cheaper), hopefully we can………
If I remember correctly, a recent Federal spending bill upped the money going to ethanol by 4-5X’s (something like that). Even if it doesn’t work well, the tax money going into now will likely keep the industry going for a while.
It’s a crazy game right now.I have been around ag my whole life.The farmers are loving right now and if people are conditioned to $3.00 gas it could be a good long ride for ethanol.If crude prices drop the demand is now high enough for corn worldwide to take the profitability out of ethanol and make them mothball plants.This is a quick view of it it’s way more complicated but that is the basic picture.
Ethanol is truly here to stay. Make no doubt about that.
However,
the change will be not using corn in the future. My “strong” prediction is that corn will be “outed” out of the picture within 24-36 months. Closer to 24 months.
There are too many other products to grow/harvest that is much more economically wise over corn.
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One thing about ethanol, it doesn’t need to made from just corn…..other countries are using this method quite well (cheaper), hopefully we can………
To spin off of that a bit…..My 2 cents is this, Would you rather import your oil or your food? I haven’t done enough research to warrant a blast here but I also think that it holds enough question marks. Corn= $4+ per bushel right now. This means that farmers (and rightfully so) are selling this years corn, next years corn, and even into 2009. They will be planting more and more corn fields which will equal less beans, wheat, cotton, etc.. In my opinion we will see the cost of everything else go up as the gas prices may drop once there is enough traction in the ethanol market. I work in the ag equipment industry and I can already see things changing. Which brings me back to the question..Import oil or food? Mark me down for food at the present time. But again, this is only my educated guess as to what could happen.
To answer your question. Unless you plan on this being the last career move of your working life I would say that you’re okay. Looking purely at the dollars spent to build these monstrosities, you’ll be fine moving to this industry for quite a while.
Anyone ever look into the amount of water it takes to make a gallon of ethanol. Ive heard there may be some issues here. Thought the MN DNR is looking into there current regs on water use permits for ethanol plants. Read in a mag some where about a plant in western MN all ready drawing down a good share of a local aquafer there. Plants are looking to being built near water sources like the MN river and lake superior but water restrictions may hamper this also.
This is just some info I quickly read in a mag a few weeks back. Not sure of how accurate it or factual it is. It was the 1st time I have ever heard water use concerns being brought up about ethanol. Sure would hate to see one of our greatest resources get sucked dry.
Backing up Gary’s post the talk around the southern MN area ethanol plants are in some types of prairie grass which will supply the alcohol in greater quantity per acre than corn.
While this holds true, there is alot of land in CRP and set aside programs, that the government is subsidizing right now to sit idle, that could be brought back into production.
big g 
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Anyone ever look into the amount of water it takes to make a gallon of ethanol.
a Ethonal plant is going in Eyota and we have done studies with them. They said they could take the cities wastewater and they could use what they needed form that so the water does not have to be pure. They are also looking at putting 41 gpm into the sewer. Not sure what they use up but 41 gpm is not a large amout, it comes out to about 60,000 gallons a day.
Here is some more info about water use in ethanol production.
est aver. 4 gallons water per 1 gallon ethanol.
Water use in ethanol production concerns
That is interesting about being able to use waste water. So your saying after the corn feed you may be able to fill the tank. 
Some info I had on ethanol is around 14 gallons water per gallon of ethanol .Regular unleaded is very near this amount or maybe a little higher.Anybody not involved in ag don’t get to worried about not getting your sweet corn the product here is field corn used for cattle feed mainly.But it is affecting costs of wheat and soybeans and in western nebraska pinto bean and great northern bean contracts have gone to $27+ per bag compered to $17 last year.They call it buying acres.You have one crop price spike and the other have to follow or they don’t get planted.A little side tracked here but still all realated to where ethanol and biodiesel goes.
Sorry I was going to put this in the earlier post.Based on 30 inches of water to grow a good corn crop and the national average of around 150 bpa of yield and 27200 gallons of water for an acre inch.It just took around 5500 gallons of water for the corn to start with. The water that is used to make the fuel is very small.Even if it takes the 14 gallon of water to make fuel some are saying less a million gallon a year plant would only pull enough water to lower a one square mile pool 1″.There is 27200 gallon of water in an acre inch and 640 acres in a mile.Price of fuel is still going to be the key to the life of ethanol.
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Ethanol and even more so Bio Diesel.
Anyone see the Myth Buster episode where than ran filtered fry oil in a diesel car? Ran just fine and only lost 2-3% of the mileage from the switch from straight diesel. Pretty amazing!
-J.
There’s a local septic hauler here that runs his trucks on filtered fry oil. I would guess that it has to be a diesel engine for it to work.
Rumor has it that if the government subsidies were taken away from the ethanol process it would be more expensive than gas. As long as the subsidies stay, you should probably have a job.
Recently there was an article in the Star Trib about the future of ethanol and a study says that it will have neutral to negative returns by as early as the end of this year. Sure, things are OK at the present, but the laws of supply and demand will eventually catch up with this boom. Just like the gold and oil booms, they come and go.
You’re going to get two answers to the question you asked…the people lining their pockets with ethanol money will say it’s here to stay, and the realists will say to not to be so quick with that idea. It’s a non-profitable industry if you take the subsidies away from the ethanol plants, so basically everything hinges on that. As more and more people are educated about the TRUTH behind ethanol, you’ll continue to here more and more about how it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be. As said eariler, short term it looks great but it won’t last the long term, IMO.
A sportsman should not support what it is doing to the environment and some of that was touched on in earlier posts as well. That new boat and new truck won’t do much good pretty soon, and you can start leaving that new shotgun in the closet as well since they keep trying to rip up CRP lands for crops. 
it takes 1 gallon of fuel to produce 1.3 gallons of ethanol
with corn (this is not a good margin)
the goverment is pumping a lot of money into this (this is not a good situation)i would rather see them put that money in to reserch and development(switch grass)
the real winners in all of this will be the cargils of the world (they already have farmers contracted out 2 to 3years at what seems a good price now)
the losers will be the natural resorces(can you say plant fence post to fence post?)
is ethanol the long term solution? no
is ethanol here to stay? i think so
these are just my opinions and do not reflect the opinions of others
P.S. i have a degree in ag business and i kind of know how this crap works but i do not claim to be an expert by any means
Ethanol is not here to stay based on corn.
It is a “start”
Ethanol is here to stay based on the alcohol. There are other plants, such as switch grass, algae, sugar beats, etc that produces much more that makes it profitable to produce, we just haven’t gotten to that stage yet.
For the same reason we have ships that started running on coal, they switched to diesal, then switched to nuclear.
My belief is that the ethanol will be our “go-to-inbetween” of fossil fuel and atom splitting.
Wow this is a good discussion. I think ethanol is here to stay, but I also think the next administration is likely to dump the strategic oil reserves on the market.
What type of job would you be taking? The ethanol discussion is a good one, but I would look at what skills you would be acquiring in the position. If it furthers your knowledge and skill base, it will help you if and when you need to find another job. I think there is no doubt that ethanol will be around long enough to keep you employed for several years. So, if it was me, I would look at the job content and if you would enjoy doing it. Even if the ethanol usage dries up, there will be other jobs created within the alternative fuels industry, and you could put yourself in a position to obtain one of those jobs by gaining this experience.
The “switch grass” and “prairie grass” business is a non starter. Sure it looks good in the chemistry lab but think about this:
Right now there is a shortage of ethanol. If more states adopt the mandatory 10% blend things will get even tighter.
I’ve heard that in both WI and IA, when all the plants that are currently under construction are up and running they will use more corn than is produced in those 2 states. Iowa will need to import corn. And that doesn’t count the number of plants that have not yet begun construction.
Farmers in the United States have gotten very good and growing corn. We can get a lot of corn off of an acre of farmland.
There is no way that many pounds of corn can be feasibly replaced by switch grass. The yeild potential just isn’t there.
Kooty,
I think it’s here to stay, at least for your working life.
I also don’t think corn is what it will be ultimately produced from. I watched a show about Brazil’s efforts with alternative fuels. They make their ethanol from sugar cane, and gas is 12 cents a gallon. One differnece between their efforts and ours. They started over 30 years ago. On that show, they said that sugar cane makes a better fuel than corn. It was an interesting show to watch.
Good luck with your job opportunity.
My guys are working 7 10 hour days per week and we have plants on contract till 2010, I think ethanol is here to stay. One thing I think people are missing is the industry is changing daily, I am already seeing the trend toward bios going faster. Another major change that will happen is the fuel used to fire these plants up will go from natural gas to coal or better yet we did one plant in Winnebago that used a by product of the ethanol to fire the plant which dropped the natural gas use by 90%. That was a very cool project, but at the end of the day I can honestly say I do have concern for the ethanol industry.
1- Government subsistance, will the government continue to fund this type of developement if there is an adminstration change
2-Control, Fagen Inc currently designs and builds over 50% the plants in america. Currently on the books they have 6.2 billion dollars of construction in the U.S. Being a contractor of this size requires some serious bonding power and few people realize that many of the contractors in this industry are finacially supported by Saudi Arabien money. The idea of not being dependant on foreign oil yet finacially being depending on their funding is a concern to me.
3-Man Power, Currently my organiztion needs 30,000 welders and pipefitters yesterday. I am not trying to make this a union/non-union issue but if you think this country is not in a seveve manpower shortage in the industrial energy industy, well then you are sadly mistaken. IMO what goes up will eventually come down but how you are willing to adapt with the changes around you can make or break you. TAKE THE JOB, I dont think you will be disapointed. 
In regards to ethanol production one remark is common:
“it takes more than a gallon of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol”
Of course it does. I’m sure gasoline and diesel are the same type of scenario. Gasoline is the product of distillation, which requires heat that is likely made from a fossil fuel. Gasoline needs to be transported, again, more fossil fuels. Energy production (any kind) is not free of energetic costs (fossil fuels).
Is corn ethanol the way of the future and the answer to our problems. No. It has it’s own costs. High yield corn production is only possible with a lot of fertilizer, which is produced using tremendous amounts of fossil fuels.
However, as Gary said, it’s a step in the right direction. There are other viable (and energetically cheaper) ways to obtain ethanol, most have probably not been thought of yet. It also brings forth the idea that life can and will go forward without gasoline and diesel, and there are more ways to feed our energetic needs besides fossil fuels.
What’s really sad (to me) is that solutions to our problems, energy and otherwise, get lost in the politcal shuffle from both sides of the aisle.
Finally (i’m almost done here), I haven’t a clue if an ethanol plant will provide long term secure employment. All you can do is look out for #1. Build your resume’, learn new skills, make yourself a valuable employeee, and always be on the lookout with a good set of job skills for a bigger and better opportunity.
Geez, must be bored at work again…
I agree Jon, down here there was and maybe still is a guy who was on tv about him using fryer oil for his diesel in his car. The state found out about it and sent him a letter saying he had to pay taxes on the amunt he used for his car. Bio diesel is probably going to be the norm for heavy trucks such as semi’s and heavy equipment etc. and ethonol for the higher reving engines like most autos. I seen a program not too long ago about bio diesel and its going to be the heavy fuel of the future because of its uses in heavy equipment etc. where gas or ethonol can’t be used.
I know im sure tired of being in the wrong spot no matters whos fault it is when it comes to paying for high oil products. I seen something interisting the other day about a way to bring prices down. It said not buying gas on any certain day does nothing to bring the prices down. But what does is if everyone bought gasoline at certain stations and avoided the rest, then that chain of stations would have to drop thier prices to sell any gas. When they drop thier prices everybody do thier buying there and this forces the other stations to then drop thier prices. It has to be an organized buying procedure by everyone but it can be done and in only a few months.
Beings this is Iowa and one of the first places the politions visit getting wound up for thier primaries they have been visiting here lately. One of the first questions asked here is what is each politition going to do to bing the price of oil down, haven’t heard about any of thier responses when asked this. I know here in Iowa thier really putting the polititions on the spot about the prices of fuel and they should.
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