Drove the New 08 6.4L SuperDuty Today

went to the chicago auto show today. Here is a pic of the 6.4 liter powerstroke and the new F450.

Riveratt
What do you think this new diesel is going to do to our older models (2006 and older)???? I am little conserned about Who is going to pay for these updates ford has come up with. I just got my 05 fitted with the update as the turbo failed.

Not tring to start any thing here but you mentioned the 23 updates ford had to do to get the early 6.0’s working rite. Thats what I call “us” being there guinee pigs. These update problems should have been tested before the motor was released. I know it doenst work that way but thats why in my previos post I said I would wait for a few years for them to get the bugs worked out.

When running as designed the 6.0 is an extremely potent engine. Neither the Cummins nor the Duramax (all in stock trim) will flog the 6.0. The drawback to the 6.0 is it is a relative fuel hog compared to the 7.3 and chipping the 6.0 doesn’t add MPG. The power chips make the 6.0 snort like crazy but also raise combustion chamber pressure so high that it won’t be long and a headgasket will blow. While some feel the 7.3 was the better engine they must have forgotten all the $500.00 injectors that have failed or the high pressure oil pumps that blew or the countless other little problems that everyone came to accept. In comparison to anything Dodge or GM offered in the early days of the 7.3 PSD these kind of problems were easily accepted.

Actually this is wrong. my dad has a 6 liter stroker and on the highway gets 22mpg, my brothers 7.3 stock on the highway gets 14mpg, and chipped gets 18mpg. Pulling on the highway my old mans boat 18foot lund gets 17mpg, and the 7.3 pulling it stock or chipped gets 13mpg.

I think gas mi. is looked at way to often. It seems if you have a dozen guys that get 12mpg and then you have a dozen getting 22 mpg. no matter what brand you use. I have three 6.0’s and none of them get the same miledge . So any one saying one is better than the other for mi. just doent go far. My 7.3 that I used to drive got 22 mpg no matter what when chipped. now many mi. later it seems to be around 16-18. one of my 6.0’s gets around 14 the other 18 or the other around 17, all have the same rear end one is a four door short box the other two are reg cabs.
I think you will find this through out every brand it’s just a matter of luck weather or not you get poor, good or great miledge.
My 2 cents

Honda your example is certainly the exception and not the rule pertaining to the fuel mileage of the two Power Strokes. My examples are based on feedback from countless customers I have encountered in the last 5 years between three Ford dealerships. Certainly variables exist but day in and day out the 6.0 will not clear 18 MPG as a 4×4. Most are happy to see 15 running empty.

Stick Boy: We are already seeing the benefits of the new fuel standards. As I mentioned above the cleaner fuels are causing far fewer soot related problems. Another benefit is the increased cetane levels. Some are saying cetane has risen as many as 10 points. At one point it was rumored that a minimum standard would be a 52 cetane rating. I’ll wait to see it to believe it after seeing 36 for so long.

There is no reason to believe the ULSD (15 PPM sulfer) will cause harm to older engines. All sources are in agreement that they will be fine. For those that feel only sulfer lubricates their engine they can still run additives in their pre 08’s and have piece of mind. Please do not confuse Ford, GM, or Dodge with the new standards. It isn’t their idea nor did they design the fuel scrubbers. They are simply running a new emissions system (identical systems between Ford and GM for sure, I suspect Dodge also) so that they can legally sell diesel engines.

The early 03 6.0 had many updates and that isn’t debatable. These issues cost Ford and Internation big time. It cost International earlier and maybe even more than Ford. Ford has killed two (that we know of) diesel engine programs and took that business to other builders. One was the 6 cyl for the F150 and Expeditions. The other was for the small cars such as the Focus and Fusion. Curiously Ford saw record sales for the 03 diesel trucks followed heavily with the 04 models. It has been the 05 and 06’s that fell flat.

Now about those updates. Ford could likely have done them in steps of maybe 6-8 instead of the two dozen but the EPA is much more strict in allowing updates to an already approved program. It takes time to not only re-create a program, but also to test it in house. After that is done it is necessary to also get the recal approved by the EPA. Ford was caught behind the 8 ball both by Internationals mistakes as well as their own. In the end it comes down to both companies pulling out all stops to make it right and I truely feel the 6.4 will be right. Both Ford and Int stand to gain huge dollars by doing it right and, of course, loss as big if it isn’t.

FWIW the 6.4 has been in testing in it’s mechanical form even before the 6.0 was released. The 6.0 was hastily built as emission standards could not be met with the 7.3. Beleive me Ford wanted the 7.3 to keep on going but simply couldn’t make it happen without re-inventing it. Smaller pistons mean a more complete combustion and therefor less emissions. Same exact reason the 460 was dumped in favor of the V-10.

For those interested there is more to the new Super Duty than the 6.4. The interior is as nice as most any high end car you can buy and the entire driveline is revamped and beefed up. For the first time an F450 is available with a regular truck box on the end, something this market has been missing for however long it has existed.

I am seeing that most of the mechanics are saying That they dont think it will hurt it. I know ford , dodge, chevy ect has nothing or very little to do with this new gas but lets face it they dont care how many cars were sold lets make a new diesel that can get better emissions. Great for better emissions but what about the affects it will have on the older vehicles. Maybe some have problems maybe some dont. Look at what leaded/unleaded caused. How many motors did that destroy. The amout of diesels that are out there now dont even compare to the #’s of cars destoyed by the lead no lead switch. I certanally dont expect ford to flip the bill but this new diesel scares me with these older engines. On top of that I dont want to pay for an “addative” on top of the fuel cost just to make my older trucks stay safe. Its going to be interesting to say the least. I may have to take these trucks in and trade them off . I do like what ford is doing and will continue to run them but will be watching this new fuel close.
Riveratt– The sulfer is a source of lubercation rite???? I no not the main source but some correct????

Thanks for all the good info, Riveratt

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Certainly variables exist but day in and day out the 6.0 will not clear 18 MPG as a 4×4. Most are happy to see 15 running empty

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One of things that create the mix of fuel mileage results is the fact that the diesel when pumped foams a lot. I have found that after your pump stops the first time and you let the diesel settle you can add a min another 5 gallons of diesel if pumps slowly. When I do a solid fuel milage test on my trucks I make sure I fill it up to the point where I can see the fuel in the neck and then do the same next time around. I do average about 17 MPG. The best I have gotten is 19 and the worst I have gotten is 13 and that was pulling a 8000lb trailer. In the summer it averages 17-18 and the winter 15-16. Compared to 18-20 summer and 16-17 winter with the 7.3. I have to say if you push over 2000 RPMs your fuel milage drops fast. So for the guys that are checking this will help you get better results.

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Certainly variables exist but day in and day out the 6.0 will not clear 18 MPG as a 4×4. Most are happy to see 15 running empty

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One of things that create the mix of fuel mileage results is the fact that the diesel when pumped foams a lot. I have found that after your pump stops the first time and you let the diesel settle you can add a min another 5 gallons of diesel if pumps slowly. When I do a solid fuel milage test on my trucks I make sure I fill it up to the point where I can see the fuel in the neck and then do the same next time around. I do average about 17 MPG. The best I have gotten is 19 and the worst I have gotten is 13 and that was pulling a 8000lb trailer. In the summer it averages 17-18 and the winter 15-16. Compared to 18-20 summer and 16-17 winter with the 7.3. I have to say if you push over 2000 RPMs your fuel milage drops fast. So for the guys that are checking this will help you get better results.

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I do the same thing with gas vehicles you can get another 2 gallons of gas in the tank after the pump clicks then you truley have a full tank.

You guys are welcome to fill your tanks however you like but I have to warn you filling tothe brim like descibed is asking for trouble, especially in gas engines. Fuel expands as it gets warm (something that naturally happens when it is removed from the cool underground tanks to the “warm” fuel cells of a vehicle) and that expanded fuel has to go somewhere. Most times in a gas engine this fuel makes its way to the charcoal canister or out of the purge vent thus causing driveability problems such as hard starts, stumbles, checl engine lights, and so on.

Both Ford and General Motors recommend allowing for a steady flow of fuel (gas or diesel) during the fill process until the pump shuts off automatically. They do NOT recommend filling beyond this point for reasons described above. When a person fills the vehicle with the correct method the variance of fuel from one fill to another is very minimal, certainly not enough to make a dramatic mileage change. Both companies consider the best process of calculating fuel economy is to pick a station to fill up at and fill the tank. Once full as described drive the vehicle in the manner it is normally operated in for as long as possible. The longer the drive the more accurate the results will be. After this drive go back to the original station and pump originally used and fill up again in the same manner as before. Make the calculations from that.

Again people are welcome to fill up how they see fit. I just want to make people aware there is a right way and a wrong way.

I checked today and it looks like we should have our first 6.4 come in any day. I can’t wait to drive one. As curious as we are about the engine we are just as curious about the rest of the truck from the interior design, to the tailgate step, to the engine preheater. This is truely a revamped truck line and the excitement level is growing everyday. I wish we also sold GMC or Chev’s (we warranty all GM vehicles as a Buick dealership so we see them here and there) to make some interesting back to back comparisons. I think the next 18-24 months is going to be hectic learning about the new generation diesel and even more hectic teaching consumers that old day diesel practices need to be almost completely tossed out, lol.

Riveratt I see your point with the over filling. I would never do that with gasoline because you are asking for a problem. With as fast as the diesel burns I have no reserves about filling it full. Never do it if you aren’t going to be traveling a long distance right away.

You will be suprisingly inpressed with the new 6.4. I never thought the truck would ride and drive like it did. From the inside to the out that is a different truck then the traditional Super Duty. It drives and ride awesome. Let me know what you think about it when you get a chance.

Saw this on another site, thought it was interesting…….

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=23999

Wow!

Better buy a Chevy
Sorry couldn’t resist

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Saw this on another site, thought it was interesting…….

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=23999

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This could mean those who buy those diesels will pay more for them due to supply and demand.

All I can say is THANKS to all of you FORD buyers. I work at the Kentucky Truck Plant that builds the Super Duty. To you Chevy and Dodge owners…..Thanks for buying American, union built products. We all hope this truck is one of our best ever!

I meant to post this earlier but on Wednesday last week a court ordered navistar to again uphold the contract they signed with Ford and start shipping engines the 6.4. I truely think we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Ford/Navistar partnership judging by Fords past “run ins” with other suppliers. Good or bad I suspect we will be seeing a Cat, Cummings, or Volvo powered Super Duty after 2009.

I too hope the 6.4 is a great engine. We only have one thus far and it is good. I have read Fords message boards and several dealers have complained of coolant leaks and sudden loss of power leading to no communication to the PCM. All in all the techs feel it is a production issue and not a design issue. I’m sure they are working fast and hard to address such concerns. Buy American, our kids depend on it.

By 2009 they will be switching again?? Possibaly??? It may be a disagrement between them and navistar but if it were me I would dump the 6.4, stick with the 6.0 until they are going to get it rite. so 2 years on this motor then what???? I would definatley like to here more if they are going to dump it as I may buy one next year but not if ts goint to be discontinued. Any insight??????

That is interesting? I was thinking about buying next year as well but that may make me reconsider. I would hold out and save my pennys to see what they do. I love my Fords but if they are not going to stick to a program and get behind it 100% they are going to risk lossing a lot of business to the “other guys”. Lets hope Ford gets this one right.

Don’t take this out of context guys. Let me try to explain as close as I can. The 6.4 in “current” form is a 3-4 year design just like the 6.0. It isn’t a matter of popularity or durabilty but rather emissions compliance. Ford has already said the 6.4 in current form will get a makeover in this timeframe. Depending on what the competition is doing has a direct impact as well. If Dodge and GM suddenly have 10 liter diesels it wouldn’t make sense to stay married to a 6.4 would it? That is likely a very extreme example but it makes the point. Again emissions laws will be the driving factor as to what happens. It is always easy for people to say “they should have kept the 7.3” and now “keep the 6.0” but neither engine could meet the upcomming emission standards much like current design diesles will not meet 2012 EPA regs.

Back to the Ford/Navistar partnership. They have been joined at the hip since 1979. I call that sticking with a program. But when one or both companies begin suing each other it is only a matter of time. No one here can possibly know exactly what happens between the two of them but I recognize Ford has a short leash with companies that they (Ford) feel has cost them money. Think Firestone.

Personally I’d love to see a Cat, Cummins, or Volvo in a Ford. I’d be just as happy with a competitive, reliable, Navistar. We can only wait and see what happens. But the same goes for Dodge and GM. Heck Dodge may not even exist in 3-4 years and by then GM might well be running a Cummins or Benz, who knows. If you want to hold out on what to buy based on one poor fellows speculation about what could happen I suggest you may not actually need a diesel truck. Those that truely need them buy them regardless of what might happen several years ahead.

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Personally I’d love to see a Cat, Cummins, or Volvo in a Ford.

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Is the Cummins still available on the F450 and larger models?

I have not looked at the 08 diesel engine options but the Cummins and Cat were both available (along with Powerstroke) in the 650 chassis. I don’t recall either being available in the 450’s though.