I posted this here so I can get all species feedback.
Why do the red hook manufacturers say red attracts fish and the red line manufacturers say red is virtually invisible under the water???
I have red hooks on a crank or two but I am still not pro-red! Of course I catch the occasional fish on only the red hook, but that happened before I switched it to red.
What do you all think? Is red more visible and attracts fish, or is it invisible since red disappears first underwater (to the human eye)?
Not sure. Never read into the reasearch behind the claims if there is any. I think it just catches more fisherman than fish. Maybe confidence for some. J-hall, your big on Cajun line, what da ya think?
Well if there theory is correct what Cajun claims that red is invisible under water and from what I have seen it appears to be. The red hooks do not attract the fish but are invisible to there eye thus meaning the fish only see’s the natural bait attached to the red hook,minnow,grub etc.. Just my .02 on this one…Could be right or could be wrong…
I have never seen the red line theory, but I believe that red hooks are suppose to mimic a bleeding fish, in their eyes…
big g 
I have a friend who swears by the red line theory. I am becoming more of a believer but won’t make the switch until more information comes out…RR
Nort, I ‘m pretty sure this was discussed on a previous post a few years ago. I believe Ron (Sliderfishin) had a link. Depending on depth of water/light refraction certain colors were invisible or showed more prevalent. Perhaps Slider remembers this. I think this was a Walleye research article??? Not sure, maybe Slider will resppond. 
I’ve asked this question before and got this answer. The line is translucent and will blend to be invisable after about 3ft. The red hooks are reflective and is more visable as long as there light to reflect. <*)}}}><
A few other .02 cents, I just looked them up. I have used red for 3+ years, just my choice.
1) “During extensive underwater testing, we found that every species in the test tank would strike dark red more than any other color combined. This dark red color simulates the Gill Flash of feeding fish. This is what stimulates the natural feeding response”.
2)”Fish are naturally attracted to blood. The sight of red means “injured bait” or “easy meal” to fish”.
3) “As fish feed the gill plates flare exposing the gills. Because the gills just moved, like any muscle there is more blood in them. This phenomenon is called gill flash, the signal from one fish to another; “I’m eating, you’re not”!
4)”Red is one of the first colors in the spectrum to fade away in water. So theoretically the red hook/line would be harder to see”.
Either way when you run one in your thumb, it will make you see 
Although I can’t comment on the line because I haven’t used it and often wondered about the same question Nort asked, I personally haven’t bought into the whole bleeding hook thing. When you are fishing cranks the fish has a split second to react and I don’t think they are smart enough to process all the information that is presented before them quickly enough to discern whether or not your bait is “bleeding” I would say at most maybe a little red might be good just to give your bait a little more flash in stained water but as far as I’m concerned I opt for the lowest profile hook possible to make the bait look as natural as possible.
Here is what I have concluded with red line and hooks.
I’ll start with the line. Red line is translucent. Red is also the first color in the spectrum to disappear in low light conditions. Depending on water clarity the red line will begin to fade at a certain depth. If you fish very clear water I wouldn’t recommend red line. It may remain clearly visible at depth greater than 20 feet. I feel that if you want invisible line your best bet would be to use fluorocarbon.
Now hooks are a solid object, therefore they won’t become invisible. The bright red will just become a dark color. Some are very reflective of light and some aren’t. Most red hooks are very reflective. In shallow conditions red hooks are very effective. The fish will see the red flash and the instincts will kick in and they will view you bait and injured prey. I am a firm believer in using red hooks. I didn’t buy into it at first. What really caught my eye was a demonstration in one of those large traveling tanks. The guy had a red laser pointer. When the fish saw the red spot on the gravel on the bottom of the tank they all became very interested. Several of them even tried to eat it. Since then I have become a believer in red hooks. I run a red treble on the front of all my crankbaits. 90% of the time the fish will be hooked on the red hook. Just for fun I put a red hook on back and left the regular color on front and the same thing happened. The fish were hooked on the red hook. I lost many more fish because they weren’t hooked nearly as well when striking the back of the bait. I always change my front hooks out to red hooks. The best hooks I have found are either red Mustad Triple Grips or red Gamakatsu EWG hooks.
Jason
The gill flash theory has my attention-any more info on this? Could see that mert in some situations. I can see how fish could be interested in the color red, but is there any real proof of actually associating it with blood-wouldn’t that be more a sense of smell or taste from the blood molecules being in the water(sharks, catfish etc. sensing it over long distances)—maybe they should come out with blood flavored lures. Shakespeare did market their red line as being like the color of blood–then changed their tune to it being virtually invisible under the water–what gives? Red hooks on cranks would make sense with the gill flash theory–enough that I will be giving it a try. 
Nort,
You’ve hit a cord with me. Line company’s claim red disappear…hook company’s claim red hooks catch more fish. I THINK THE RED HOOK DEAL IS A FARCE. Many people claim they know they work because the fish is caught on the red hook. 
Every underwater video I’ve seem of fish hitting a crankbaits shows the bait completely engulfed in the fish’s mouth. The hooks catch flesh as the fish open its mouth. It’s totally random which hook/hooks catch first. I wish people would use logic and look at the big picture on this subject. Sorry if I’ve ruffled any feathers but that my .02 worth.
John
Quote:
I THINK THE RED HOOK DEAL IS A FARCE
As a Walleye trolling addict I can add this to the conversation. I switch almost all of the front hooks to red on my cranks. Some will laugh at this, but I see close to 75% more of my fish hooked on the front hook. I think a lot of it still has to do with me putting better hooks on the front. I either use red Lazer trebles or red Triple Grips.
Either of those are usually better hooks than a standard Rapala hook. I feel that the red hook does make a difference though. I apply the same theory to some crankbait modifications I’ve made in the last few years. I often add a little red around the gills of my cranks, or even red holographic prizm tape. I spend a lot of time tuning my lures, so it’s usually not a case of one crank running better than the other.
For example, I have about 10 Baby Bass Shad Raps (5’s) and two consistently out produce all the others. One of the two has a red Lazer treble as the front hook and the other has some red nail polish around the gills. All 10 lures have been hand tuned and checked for trueness before use.
If you want to experiment without replacing hooks, dab a little bit or red nail polish around the gills of a crank and see what happens. Remember, you can’t just add red to any crank and expect it to work, apply it to the types of cranks that usually work for you and test it against someone else running the same lure in the same situations. You might just be surprised.
I totally understand what you are saying when you say that fish totally engulf the bait when they hit it. I’m just saying from experience I have noticed that I land a higher percentage of fish when the red hook is in front as opposed to being in back. For quit a while I took notes while I was fishing. I was searching for the right hooks and setup for crankbaiting. I tested many different hook styles and colors. There was nothing scientific to my study, but it was clear that I lost fewer fish with the triple grip or ewg hooks. I lost fewer yet with the red hook placement in front. I’m not trying to start a debate with anyone; I’m simply stating my findings to back up my previous post.
The most important color or hook you use is the one you have the most confidence in.
Jason
In-Fisherman did a study on this and it was in their magazine about a year ago. I had just purchased the Cajun line.
The study finds that while red is the first color to disappear to the human eye in water, it is one of the best seen color by fish(walleyes in the study). I should find the article and then post more.
But what I concluded from the article is that red line is not good, but red hooks are great. I’ve since taken the cajun line off and use red hooks frequently.
See if you can find this on their website.
Eric
I’ve not tried the red line. In the river I don’t think the fish are going to be able to see more than a foot or two on average so pretty much any line will do. Maybe it would make a difference in salt water and clear water lakes. I’ve used red hooks but can’t really say if they put more fish in the boat or not. I keep a permanent red marker in my tackle for putting red gill marks on the sides of minnow colored sassy shads. I’ve done this for many years and I will say the touch of red on the shad body can make a world of difference on a slow day of vertical jigging for saugers.
Here’s a twist. I want to say it was about 7 or 8 openers ago, on Mille Lacs. One team of guys had about 8 or 9 walleys and the rest of us, about 20 guys, had maybe that many total. Turns out, the guys were using purple hooks. Needless to say, the teams that switched to purple, caught more fish… Interesting. Unoxygenated blood ???? 
big g
Quote:
I totally understand what you are saying when you say that fish totally engulf the bait when they hit it. I’m just saying from experience I have noticed that I land a higher percentage of fish when the red hook is in front as opposed to being in back.
My thought with the hook subject is you would have to compare apple to apple. What I mean by this is, you would have to have the same hooks on both front and back just different colors to have a equal study. Gamy hooks in red to factory hooks natural color is not equal. it could be just the hooking power of the gamy that ia getting the hookup not the color. 
found this statement in a book about walleyes’ vision:
walleye will see bright orange, red and green better than any other color.
This is due to the structure of their retina and the tapetrum lucidum…
So – I’d agree red hooks, red paint, etc. are probably a good idea while red line not so much…
I wouldn’t worry too much about line color and having a walleye turn it’s nose to it……..
Remember, we are talking a fish here that swims into gill nets!
Cougareyes, King185
Your right, Dr. Rob Neumann did an excellent article in the April/May 2005 In-Fisherman. I dug it out and reread it. Right of the bat he quoted study done at the UofM that demonstrated that walleyes cone vision (daylight vision) is most sensitive to the wavelength around red and orange. However, walleyes rods, the part of the eye that is most sensitive in low light DO NOT discriminate color. The heart of the article looks at walleye vision in different water depth, colors and light intensity.
In very clear water absorbs red and UV wavelength faster than blue and green. That’s why clear lakes look blue. Clear water with a moderate amount of phyto-plankton change things and yellow and green become dominate water color. Stained water such as silty or tannic lakes actually transmit red wavelength the deepest so the light in this water is red.
Another interesting characteristic of walleyes eyes is their cones large (like large digital pixels) so walleyes likely don’t see fine detail.
Because a walleye eyes are red sensitive, clear water (primarily blue green light) is actually dark to a walleye. Green water, water with algae, would be medium bright and off colored (red/brown) water might be the brightest to a walleye. In addition to the water color the angle of incident light and the direction a fish is viewing further changes a walleyes vision.
The bottom line is color alone is not that simple. It’s the contrast to its surrounding that counts. I’d suggest everyone read and reread the article.
John
I’m here.
Here is a link to an old thread.
color chart
I am not a firm believer in the red theory BUT it does have some weight in the fishing world. My go-to color for walleyes is purple.
Ron
For all you guys who only change your front crank hook to red because you feel you get better hook ups, how about this…
Takahiro Omori won the B.A.S.S. season opener two years ago in Florida on Lake Toho. He made it very clear (everyone in the world could see his bait on TV) that he won the tournament by throwing a Team Diawa lipless crankbait with a red treble hook on the TAIL only. He would not put one on the belly. Hum…?
Tak who??????
I haven’t heard that name in a long time………
I’ll call it a lucky fluke!
I still call it a fluke……
gary i think you are a funny guy
Come on!!!!!!!!
What is the saying?
“Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile”
I’m telling ya man!!!!!!
His fishing is all luck…..just a fluke!!!!
great information on your post… I think you have one error in your information though… I have read that UVA light (the stuff that causes sunburns) can penetrate consideribly deeper (up to a half-mile??) than visible light (which makes sense since ultraviolet wavelengths are those beyond visible blue – not longer wavelengths, they’re actually shorter – less than 400nm). Also read something about titanium dioxide (TiO2) – that it is an excellent reflector of UVA wavelengths???? TiO2 exists in two crystal forms, anatase and rutile. The anatase form reflects UVA slightly better. Now, if I were to develop a paint for lures/baits/jigs, I’d probably mix anatase Ti02 (which would look white to bluish-white to you and I) in with some sort of glow paint and probably add a little bit of red pigment as well… or get some anatase crystals (very fine) and sprinkle them over the wet paint on the lure/jig…. and maybe just paint a red eye or red stripe on the lure/jig over the glow paint/anatase coating…
Hey B-FishiN guys, would you be interested in trying out a few formulas with me?
Also, I’d be sure to keep suntan lotions off my baits/lures… could end up just making your offering invisible to the fish you’re trying to catch…
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