Irwin Jacobs on Brunswick

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Lip… nobody cares how Genmar or brunswick sold boats before or after the sale, owners care about how lund or crestliner sold boats. Nobody ever said they owned a brunswick 1800 Pro V or a Genmar 202 TS.

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VERY True, but my point is different ownership (Brunswick)has different marketing and long term plans. With a defintie “short term” negative impact being felt, no question.

Tuck however I disagree with you and bet you that doughnut. . I think they will keep there “Sales Model” and not sell Lund/Cresltiner….. Unless they acquire another BIG Boat Company(s).

Now, I have just one simple question…….
Has anyone here called, looking for a 2007 Lund or Crestliner and are they unable to hang the motor they want?

Has anyone priced out the difference between the dealer hanging a 250 Yamaha V-MAX vs a 250 Merc XS on the back of a 2025?

Also, Tracker and Nitro hasn’t allowed any other motor to be hung other than Merc……Where is the outcry there? G3 says Yamaha only…..No outcry in 98 when Yamaha bought G3……..All of this is only perception, just like James said.

Most people truely don’t care what motor they are getting in the first place. (I said MOST!!!!!!)

This battle is like Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge……

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Now, I have just one simple question…….
Has anyone here called, looking for a 2007 Lund or Crestliner and are they unable to hang the motor they want?

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To the best of my knowledge, you can put any motor on it, just pay the extra rigging costs.

That is the big question…….How much is the rigging cost, in comparison to the two different motors?

Is all of this “hog wash”?????? It is meaningless conversation????

When thesmoke clears…….is the price the “same”???

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This battle is like Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge……

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I was thinking more like Republican versus Democrat!!

It’s a bet.

Look at the motor following out there. Generations of Mercury/Johnson/Evinrude people. My Dad’s Dad’s Dad bought Evinrude…Many people in this world have very strong feelings about their motor brand. We know you will never have anything but black on your transom. Bless you anyway.( ) But Brunswick walked away from all those people who are buying by telling them in so many words “We don’t care what you like, here is what you will get!” G3 says “We have a quality boat with Yamaha engines on them, if you like what you see…buy one! They are creating a new following. A newer generation of boat buyers. Crestliner and Lund are the “Old Guard” and have a huge following in the Midwest, moreso than anywhere else in the US. Those are the people who are alienated, and the percentage of fallen sales points that out. Obviously there are C-liner and Lund owners who like the black motors anyway, and do not factor in. Also factor in the dealers who have always been die hard Lund and Crestliner and Mercury dealers. Many of those dealerships in small town America know each other by first name. Some big dealers too. What song do you suppose those dealers are singing now? Poisoning the well for sure I would bet. Years past, there were 50 or so Crestliners at the boat show with 4 major dealers. This year? 1 dealer, 8 boats. Two of which were identical Fish Hawks.
Time will tell. Personally, I like it. I think it is good. It was time for a correction in the market. People are getting to see what other boat companies have to offer.

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They are creating a new following. A newer generation of boat buyers.

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Exactly what I meant about Brunswick and their new Strategic Plan. “New Innovations and New Consumers”.

Did they PEE’ some people off??? Yes they did, but they felt the change was needed in order to move forward and grow…

Wow, what a post. Seems the best scenario, is to get 2 buyers together, maybe on a website, and start pairing up engines to boats on the side. I guess this really forces the issue, are you buying a boat or a engine ??? After reading all these posts, I see no more good that can come out of this thread, so lets just agree to see what the future brings for all involved.

big g

( I gotta get rid of this dial-up )

I know this, when I went into the boat dealer last year I picked the boat out I wanted 1st. Then I asked both the sales and service people what motor I should put on it. If they would’ve said well you only have 1 choice and its a Mercury I would have left. Sorry to Merc fans but after having numerous issues with all our Mercs from 5hp to my buddies 150, I may never own another, therefore, I will not be forced into a Brunswick package. But it’s hard to beat a low budget package price!!!

I’m just glad I have a YarCraft Boat which I can order from the factory rigged for either Mercury, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, or Evinrude. We call it…”The Power of Choice”!!

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That is the big question…….How much is the rigging cost, in comparison to the two different motors?

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I think its just giving the consumer something to gripe about paying for the changeover. The price of the motor may not be revalant if they are only wanting their loved brand engine.

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Nobody ever said they owned a brunswick 1800 Pro V or a Genmar 202 TS.

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Well … not YET
But just looking at what this thread reveals.
I can just see a few years down the road people looking at buying used Lunds and Cresliners asking the seller that very question.
Kinda like AMF Harleys.

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That is the big question…….How much is the rigging cost, in comparison to the two different motors?

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I think its just giving the consumer something to gripe about paying for the changeover. The price of the motor may not be revalant if they are only wanting their loved brand engine.

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EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
This whole thread is nothing but a gripe, leading to “Ford vs. Chevy”…….Or as Jack put it, “Republican vs. Democrat”. Heck, I’ll even go as far as “Catholic vs. Lutheran!”

Keep the Catholics out of this!

This thread was started by quoting Irwin Jacobs (Genmar) response to Brunswick sticking Mercury motors on Lunds and Crestliners. This thread is proof that Irwin may be a marketing genious! The real people who are concerned about this I think are those long time fans of Lund and Crestliner who want a motor choice other then Mercury. As stated earlier they have grown up with Lund and Crestliner and with the advent of more motor choices want to stay with their chosen boat but not nessasarily Mercury. In addition to the buyers it seems Brunswick kind of “dumped” on it’s dealer network. But there are reasons for that also.

Think back before the four strokes. Back to the seventies and even early eighties. How many Yamaha motors did you see? Suzuki? Honda?

In the mid-west the motor market was DOMINATED by Mercury and Evenrude, times have changed my friends.

Prior to the 70’s most boat brands also were independently owned. There was no Genmar. There was no Brunswick. Boat companies built boats. Motor companies built motors. If you built Lunds you ordered a thousand Merc’s and a thousand ‘rude’s and hung what the customer wanted.
You “special” ordered a Honda, Suzuki,Yamaha.

This whole thread is about Jacobs (Genmar) attempting to capture market share.

BTW, neither Brunswick nor Genmar really care what we think. Genmar wants world domination in the boat market and Brunswick wants to survive. Both will do what they believe they have to do to win. No matter who wins, we will lose.

Last year at the boat show we were told that it would cost a Minimum of $2000 to have a boat converted to a different engine. I am sure that figure is much higher now.

Boat dealerships buy “packages” in bulk. To get the best deal you buy a prerigged “package”. If you want to order a boat with a specific motor, you will pay considerably more. I would guess you can still find a dealership that will remove the Mercury from a Lund, and put an Evinrude on that same boat, change out the controls, etc. But, you can bet it will cost you atleast $4500 more.

Wow Scott!
That is harsh!!!!!!

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Heck, I’ll even go as far as “Catholic vs. Lutheran!”

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If you don’t already know, us Catholics back into parking stalls at Church so we get out faster after Mass. Mass is so long at Catholic churches you know, this is why we must leave in such a hurry. So if you see someone that is backed into a parking stall you know they must be Catholic. You’ll see this at the mall, resturants, sporting events, but never at the boat launch.

Ever wonder why there are two bars and a Catholic church in all the small towns?????

In my neck of the woods, we don’t need to back into the parking lot, we just walk across the street to the tavern after Saturday night mass.

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In my neck of the woods, we don’t need to back into the parking lot, we just walk across the street to the tavern after Saturday night mass.

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Run! Don’t walk!

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That is the big question…….How much is the rigging cost, in comparison to the two different motors?

Is all of this “hog wash”?????? It is meaningless conversation????

When thesmoke clears…….is the price the “same”???

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Yes. You can buy a Lund or Crestliner with a E-TEC, Yamaha, whatever. BRP is offering dealers’ incentives and is paying re-rigging costs if needed. Are there cost differences – only the price difference in the motors (ie an E-Tec is about $2,000 more than an Opti).

Is it difficult. No. I just ordered a new Lund with an E-TEC – and I lived to tell about it!!!!!

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Last year at the boat show we were told that it would cost a Minimum of $2000 to have a boat converted to a different engine. I am sure that figure is much higher now.

Boat dealerships buy “packages” in bulk. To get the best deal you buy a prerigged “package”. If you want to order a boat with a specific motor, you will pay considerably more. I would guess you can still find a dealership that will remove the Mercury from a Lund, and put an Evinrude on that same boat, change out the controls, etc. But, you can bet it will cost you atleast $4500 more.

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My price difference with a Lund and E-TEC was only the price of the E-TEC, a difference of about $1,00o over the Opti. My dealer showed me their package with the equivalant Opti vs an E-Tec or Yamm, and the difference was ONLY the price of the motor. This was an ’07 ordered Lund.

Lots of good points here on both sides. IMO, the reason for Brunswick’s loosing share is that fact that they took our most loved aluminum boats over the years(yes Lunds have been the top aluminum rigs) and told us we had to hang a black motor on them.

The reason you don’t hear this same outcry from people buying G3s is that G3 is relatively new and they don’t have a dominant share like Lund has enjoyed since the begining of aluminum boat making, or huge following – yet.

Lund IS THE aluminum boat to most people, they always have been and probably always will be. G3, Alumacraft, etc may be as good or better, but in all honesty if you were to take a poll here or anywhere else in the midwest who makes the best or what type of aluminum boat they would buy if they could and a majority would pick Lund.

Ask them what motor they like and it would be split between many different options.

Thanks Fisherman J.
Looks like once again, there isn’t much to squak about????

Thanks for your input FishermanJ.

it looks like the Dealers are not telling the whole truth or are a little bitter at Brunswick???

So Fisherman J to clarify. The extra $2,000 was not neccisarily for the extra rigging costs, it was for the added charge for the more expsensive E-Tec motor… Correct????

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How is it different? I know you want more of a concrete answer but I’ll give you one you cannot argue with. Perception. Or more accurately, how buyers perceive this new descision to limit engine choice. Brunswick changed the way they sold their boats. G3 has always been powered by Yamaha. You can spit and sputter all you want about how things are different or who started what or should be lumped with this group or that…. but the sales figures bare this out as G3’s sales volume has gone up over the same period that Brunswick has struggled.

But… but… but….

Customers are speaking with the loudest communication tool they have. Their checkbooks. People have issues with being told what motors they can buy on their Lunds & Crestliners while G3 isn’t seeing the same backlash.

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Right on, James. My argument/point is that the customers speaking with their checkbooks caused Brunswick to reform the way they did.

Chris Tucker: Your perception is that G3 did it right and Brunswick is doing it wrong. My point is that they’ve done the same thing; Brunswick just did it after observing Yamaha’s success. That’s typical of established, successful companies — they see their new or smaller competitors doing something and have to adapt. Look how long it took Ford and GM to develop fuel-efficient cars after Japan was successful with it!

Now here’s a bigger question: are G3 sales increasing because G3 builds a better boat than Lund or Crestliner? I don’t think so. G3 without Yamaha doesn’t make sense. Yamaha simply developoed a good business model. They bought/developed a line of boats to sell with their outboards, and via the double-dip profits they were able to sell at a lower price than the competition… or make more money at the same price. So tell me again, what did Brunswick do?

On the subject of trucks, perhaps 20 years from now asking for a different motor on your boat will be like asking for a 350 in a Ford. That can be done, but…

However, Gary after rereading it, he did say that BRP is picking up the Rigging tab with delaer incentives. So there is an extra cost being abosrbed by someone.

Is Yammy doing the same??

G, I don’t think you even have to go that far in a comparison. Lets use me as an example. I currently have a 1800 Lund pro v with an Evinrude.

Now I’m always looking at buying a new boat. Some sort of sickness I have.

At the boat show I looked at an identical 07 1800 pro v, with no major changes from my 04 to the 07 except for the color of the horn toggle switch. For a whopping 44k with a merc 150 on the back. 44k, I almost fell over!

Now as often as I use my boat, things occasionally break. Last summer I had 2 dealers within 5 miles of my house. Now I have 2 within 30-40 miles of my house.

Wait time to get something fixed last year, 2-3 weeks during peek summer.

What is the wait time going to be this summer? To get warranty work, or any work done at these 2 dealerships?

I like walking into the dealership door knowing they know me, and I know them and we help each other out. I praise their services to others in the boating community, and they hopefully receive more business because of it, and things seem to get fixed a little quicker.

So what boats am I currently looking at?

Not Lund, which is sad, I’ve owned a couple and really like them. But I don’t have a local repair shop, the price of these is through the roof, and I’m not a Merc fan. I have had one in the past, and won’t go back.

So I’m currently looking at G3, Ranger, and Yarcraft. Why you ask? I have a personal relationship with the dealerships that are offering these boats. I can have my choice of a Evinrude or Yamaha with the exception of the G3. Two of the three boats are sponsors in the tournaments I will be fishing in, hopefully contingency $.

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I guess this really forces the issue, are you buying a boat or a engine

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I’m buying both, with the convenience and peace of mind that if something should go wrong, I’ll know the person working on my boat on a personal level. I won’t have to trailer that far to get to them. I can call them on the phone while I’m having an issue on the water, and someone will help me tshoot these problems. The repairs will be completed as timely as they can and I will be treated as a valued consumer.

My 2 cents.

Jami

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At the boat show I looked at an identical 07 1800 pro v, with no major changes from my 04 to the 07 except for the color of the horn toggle switch. For a whopping 44k with a merc 150 on the back. 44k, I almost fell over!

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Almost fell over?! I would have! Thats outrageous!

Two years ago I was looking at a leftover ’04 Pro V 18 with a 135 or 150 Honda and a base model Shorelandr trailer for $24k. Now that would seem like a bargain.

I’d like to get the new 2010 tiller with a 175 on the back. But do I want to shell out 30k?

Maybe I’ll keep my ’04 17 Explorer tiller for a while. It will be that much worse when I do get a new boat. They sure aren’t getting any less expensive.

You guys are right. It is ridiculous what they are charging for any of these boats. Most normal folks would have to finance a new rig nowdays. Unless you are sponsered by whomever, or want a 10 year loan on a friggin boat, it just does not pay to buy one brand new anymore. I will always look slighty used first. This is just a boat we are buying gentlemen.
Kind of sad.

U CAN PUT a differant motor on a G3 if u wish .Call Hallbergs and ask they will sell u what u want there will be a charge.There has not been ONE request to do so yet to any dealer. MMMM wonder why!!!