Thanks for the post. As I mentioned earlier the same thing is true with Crestliner. If you want an E-Tec the dealer is reimbursed for re-rigging the steering, electronics, etc.
As for the G-3, a few fisherman have told me unless you want to pay big bucks, the G-3 boats are not nearly as well laid out as Alumicraft, Crestliner of Lund. For example, boats rated for anywhere from 50HP to 115HP motors.
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As for the G-3, a few fisherman have told me unless you want to pay big bucks, the G-3 boats are not nearly as well laid out as Alumicraft, Crestliner of Lund. For example, boats rated for anywhere from 50HP to 115HP motors.
See, this is what I think is unfair regardless of what boat manufacturer you like. The “Someone told me” or “I heard…” statements. The Northwest Sport show is coming up in March. Meet me there, and we will walk through each boat, and compare.
I am not trying to be a “Homer” here for G3, but you really have to see for yourself.
As I looked at numerous boats this last year from 16-17′ long it’s hard to beat the layouts of a crestliner, lund or Alumacraft. I bought an alumacraft 165cs navigator and love it. 52″ livewell!!!! I don’t think G3 offers that big of a livewell in that class of boat. There boats over 18′ are well set-up but very costly with bigger engines. My navigator with 90 etec was around $16000. Plus alumacraft will let you put any engine on there boat! I believe they are the only independently owned aluminum boat maker in the US. It was nice when I called them on a thursday for extra interior lights(priceless for night fishing) I got a human and they ordered them right then and there oem match, and by tuesday I had them. Beat that service….direct from the factory!!!!!!!!! 
Try that with your boat manufacturer!!! 
Also Chris look at the livewell sizes of G3 boat 17′ and under, in northern Wi you need a minimum 48″ livewell for most musky tournaments. The 172 angler that compares has a 30″ not big enough for a pike. The 165f has a big livemell at 54″ but rated for a 150 = $$$$$$$. Yammys and g3s are great products but just wasn’t for me.
Very understandable! 
You know what you want, and I respect that. Some people would rather have center rod storage than a 34 gal. livewell. It comes to personal preference.
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Plus alumacraft will let you put any engine on there boat! I believe they are the only independently owned aluminum boat maker in the US. It was nice when I called them on a thursday for extra interior lights(priceless for night fishing) I got a human and they ordered them right then and there oem match, and by tuesday I had them. Beat that service….direct from the factory!!!!!!!!!
Independently owned?
EVERY boat custom built? (including custom rigged for the outboard of YOUR choice)
definitely gonna get face time with the guys who are building your boat!!
Please don’t beleive that there is only one independently owned aluminum boat maker in the US.
Never seen one of them, were are they made/sold???? I never stated alumacrafts were custom built one at a time, but they do let you put any brand motor on them which is nice. Everyone has an opinion on boats, I love my boat and I think everyone should love theres and be happy with what they have purchased, especially at the cost!!! I just checked there website, new company??? Cost???? Honda only??? 
Chris well put the alumacraft magnums had center rod storage but a smaller livewell. Personal preference. My rods are hardly ever in storage, but I do have dual 7′ storage lockers with the left one having tubes so no tagled lines!! That’s slick!!!! 
Chris,
your are probably right. I should have asked an open ended question, requesting feedback on the smaller G3 boats and how they compare to other boats such as the Crestliner Fish Hawk.
However, I was hoping for a more detailed response regarding the boats. Guess I should check out their Website.
I am about 400 miles from you, just North of Milwaukee. We do have a few boat shows coming up so I will check them out.
2fishy
Sorry didn’t mean to come across quite that strong about all the items other than motor choice (i.e. custom build). Just wanted to say there are more than one aluminum boats out there that aren’t tied to one brand of outboard. Bought my current boat used; got very close to everything I wanted, but not quite exact (only thing I would change is the location of the livewell).
When buying new however, you’re absolutely correct. For the price you’re gonna pay, ya better find a boat you’re gonna love. I’m sincerely glad for you that you have found that boat, I’ve just never seen an Alumacraft that I could love. Differing tastes make life great, eh?
RE: your questions
Located and built in Elk River MN (NorthWest metro)
I’ve seen their boats at sportsshows for about three years now. Don’t know how long they were in business before that, but the website is copyright 2004 so I’d guess that’s in the right neighborhood.
You can get whatever brand of whatever you want on them (outboard, electronics, etc.)
Price is comparable to the same size boat from Warrior.
Although I haven’t priced comparable Alumacrafts and Rangers, I would guess it would be a little more than the Lumacraft and a little less than the Ranger.
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Jack –
Before we get all negative on the FLW and Irwin let’s make sure we take into account the lawsuit that Merc brought against YAMAHA. The net/net outcome of that was a higher cost of all engines that was directly passed onto the consumer. Nothing like playing the USA card while taking more hard earned money out of our pockets and quietly building a production plant in China… nice two step there!
I do applaud Yar Craft for offering all engine choices – it appears that they are following a successful market model that another glass company is using to keep increasing sales each quarter.
Actually, Yamaha dealers were buying Yamaha HPDI’s for approximately 2000-2500k less than big Opti’s. Most were then selling them for $500 less than Opti’s. It was no secret.
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What do you all think about this?
Agree? Disagree? The numbers are pretty strong in favor of his assessment.You reference “numbers”. Please provide them, there are none in Irwin’s memo.
Doesn’t look too horrible to me – we have had a tougher year – Iraq, fuel prices, layoffs, auto sales problems, etc.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97828&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=922701
Boat Segment
The Boat segment is comprised of the Brunswick Boat Group, which produces fiberglass and aluminum boats and marine parts and accessories, as well as offers dealer management systems. The Boat segment reported net sales for the third quarter of 2006 of $679.2 million, down 1 percent compared with $685.5 million in the third quarter of 2005. Excluding incremental sales from acquired businesses, organic boat sales declined 5 percent. Operating earnings decreased to $24.8 million from $37.9 million reported in the third quarter of 2005, and operating margins were 3.7 percent, down from 5.5 percent.
“During the quarter, we saw sales gains in boat parts and accessories as well as some of our larger models,” McCoy said. “Significant declines were seen in sales of our smaller freshwater boat lines that are sold primarily in the upper Midwest where regional economic issues have affected discretionary spending among purchasers of these boats. The margin decline was driven by an unfavorable mix shift away from our higher-margin cruiser business as we work to rebalance these pipelines, as well as lower fixed-cost absorption due to reduced production levels.”
Marine Engine Segment
The Marine Engine segment, consisting of the Mercury Marine Group, reported net sales of $536.5 million in the third quarter of 2006, down from $555.0 million in the year-ago quarter. Operating earnings in the third quarter decreased to $50.4 million versus $61.2 million, while operating margins declined to 9.4 percent from 11.0 percent for the same quarter in 2005.
“Stronger sales in Mercury’s international operations during the quarter helped to offset lower year-over-year domestic sales, particularly in the outboard category, which was down double digits for the quarter,” McCoy explained. “Segment results reflect both the tough operating climate and the effect of reducing production rates in some product areas during the quarter. We will continue to adjust production rates as needed to manage pipeline inventories through the model year. Operating margins were adversely affected by lower sales along with lower fixed-cost absorption on reduced production.”
The complaint is about having the purchase a matched boat and motor. Where did this “problem” come from? Genmar started the consolidation of the industry, but G3 was the first to require that a boat and motor be purchased together.
It was clearly a good thing for Yamaha to develop their own exclusive line of boats. Their reputation for building a good outboard, coupled with their ability to sell a good boat at a better price due to the double-dip on the sale (boat+motor) sold a lot of boat packages. It clearly resulted in growth and increased profit for the company. I support this observation with one simple fact: if that weren’t the case Brunswick wouldn’t have made the move they did.
Businesses don’t exist to make people happy; they exist to make money. If customer satisfaction drops and results in fewer sales, but profit increases by an amount that more than makes up for the drop in sales … what do you think a business is going to do?
James made a good point about Brunswick ticking off their dealers. But only time will tell if this was a bad move. It might actually result in lower new boat prices because of package pricing (like it did for G3), and even if you’re loyal to a certain brand it’s hard to complain about lower prices.
Brunswick is reacting to a competitor’s more efficient or effective business model. One could argue that G3 was reacting to Genmar’s more efficient/effective business model in the first place, but G3 took it to the next level. If you want to complain about having to get a matched boat and motor, complain about G3 … they are the ones that brought us this idea. Personally, I’m not bothered by it at all. I believe that economic efficiency and competition ultimately benefit the consumer (me).
P.S. I have an Alumacraft and a Tuffy, neither of them sponsored.
I think Yamaha acquired Skeeter before G3, thus making Skeeter the first to be bought by Yamaha.
OMC owned Statos, Javelin, Lowe, and a couple of others before that though.
I guess I am not sure that they “required” you to purchase a boat and motor together, but I know it was difficult and expensive not to.
Desparado,
I think you meant your reply for 2Catch1, inasmuch as I don’t own an Alumicraft. My last two boats have been Crestline Fish Hawks, and I love um.
If Erwin feels this way WHY did he push so hard to sell Crestliner and Lund to Brunswick?
Still Waiting
I’m not saying it was a good decision by Brunswick, but in order to stay on top in today’s world. Industries, Companies, Dealerships etc. need the ability to “CHANGE & or ADAPT” to survive and stay on top. It appears most dealers have done that and gone and accepted AlumnaCraft, YarCraft, etc. to change and meet their customers changing needs.
Ok, to bring it more local……….Do you think that James would sell or advertise a product on here at IDA with FM’s name on it???
I’m guessing not. How is that different then Brunswick(Mercury) hanging a Yamaha on the back of a Lund or Crestliner??? They are not out to make friends, bottom line it is a corporate business.
Again, I’m not sold on Brunswicks decision of hanging only Mercury’s on the back, because of the end result of less consumer choices and other factors described by everyone in above, but I can see his (Brunswick’s) point and reasoning of not wanting a competitors motor on the back of “THEIR” boats. Can you blame him? Are we all sure this is bad for the industry? I can’t see the future, maybe you guys can????
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The complaint is about having the purchase a matched boat and motor. Where did this “problem” come from? Genmar started the consolidation of the industry, but G3 was the first to require that a boat and motor be purchased together.
It was clearly a good thing for Yamaha to develop their own exclusive line of boats. Their reputation for building a good outboard, coupled with their ability to sell a good boat at a better price due to the double-dip on the sale (boat+motor) sold a lot of boat packages. It clearly resulted in growth and increased profit for the company. I support this observation with one simple fact: if that weren’t the case Brunswick wouldn’t have made the move they did.
Businesses don’t exist to make people happy; they exist to make money. If customer satisfaction drops and results in fewer sales, but profit increases by an amount that more than makes up for the drop in sales … what do you think a business is going to do?
James made a good point about Brunswick ticking off their dealers. But only time will tell if this was a bad move. It might actually result in lower new boat prices because of package pricing (like it did for G3), and even if you’re loyal to a certain brand it’s hard to complain about lower prices.
Brunswick is reacting to a competitor’s more efficient or effective business model. One could argue that G3 was reacting to Genmar’s more efficient/effective business model in the first place, but G3 took it to the next level. If you want to complain about having to get a matched boat and motor, complain about G3 … they are the ones that brought us this idea. Personally, I’m not bothered by it at all. I believe that economic efficiency and competition ultimately benefit the consumer (me).
WELL PUTJohn23 
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Fair points Lip – (especially the not out to make friends!) so let’s look at the reverse scenario.
Why would Alumacraft, Ranger, Warrior, etc. want to hang black on one of their transoms? Each time a black power plant was sold they would be directly and/or indirectly supporting:
– Triton
– Crestliner
– Lund
In the end, all of those dollars end up in the same bucket.
Where is the incentive for these companies not under Brunswick’s umbrella to promote their product when they are funding marketing, R&D, adverstising, etc. at their competitor?
As I stated above, I am trying to be an advocate for the consumer here and several actions are costing the consumer more dollars today and even more in the future.
James put togher a well stated post above that was factual and (I believe) represented both sides fairly, many of you should re-read that.
I do have a good grasp of the industry and am concerned that with the rising costs we are driving out today’s fisherpeople which limits the opportunities for the future generations.
Perhaps Ted, but do we know for sure that Money made by Mercury motors on Rangers/Skeeters/AlumnaCraft go directly goes to Triton’s Lund’s or Cresltiner’s R&D???????
The same thing could be said for that 4 Stroke 250 Yammy on the back of your Ranger giving G3 R&D Power, over Ranger, AlumnaCraft, Lund, & Crestliner couldn’t it??????
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I do have a good grasp of the industry and am concerned that with the rising costs we are driving out today’s fisherpeople which limits the opportunities for the future generations.
Very true and Sad at the same time.
All business needs to adapt to the times to survive. G3 happened to come to existence, at a time when it made sense for a boat manufacturer, who also manufactures motors, to only hang their products together. That doesn’t mean, other manufacturers shouldn’t follow. G3 would love to be the only manufacturer, double dipping, so to speak. This sort of thing happens in alot of industry. I worked for AGCO, which is a tractor company. We built high clearance sprayers, which we put John Deere and Cummings diesels into. When John Deere, who never manufactured self propelled sprayers, started manufacturing them too, we changed our models to Deutz engines, which also are manufactured by AGCO. At that time, marketing speculated that our sales would go down, because we got rid of the big green engines. In reality, sales increased nicely, as we could offer the product at a better price, and also service warranties at one location. This will need to play out too. Ultimately, we the consumers, do have the most control on how this goes.
big g
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But it is still a Yamaha.
If not, how is this different than Brunswick doing the same thing on Crestliners or Lunds with the Mercurys that everyone is all bent out of shape on???????
How is it different? I know you want more of a concrete answer but I’ll give you one you cannot argue with. Perception. Or more accurately, how buyers perceive this new descision to limit engine choice. Brunswick changed the way they sold their boats. G3 has always been powered by Yamaha. You can spit and sputter all you want about how things are different or who started what or should be lumped with this group or that…. but the sales figures bare this out as G3’s sales volume has gone up over the same period that Brunswick has struggled.
But… but… but….
Customers are speaking with the loudest communication tool they have. Their checkbooks. People have issues with being told what motors they can buy on their Lunds & Crestliners while G3 isn’t seeing the same backlash.
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In my opinion is about the backlash Brunswick boat companies are feeling right now from their dealers over their descision to go from “open transoms” to making all boats pre-rig mercury.
G3 has always been yamaha. Every dealer that purchased the dealer rights to sell G3 boat knew going in that all boats will be rigged yamaha. That has not and will not change.
It would be nice to see Brunswick leaving the existing boats alone and then come out with a new boat and only putting their engines on it. I think the change is what will hurt them, whereas G3 was Yamaha right from the start. I should be safe as long as I keep using tillers.
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Brunswick is reacting to a competitor’s more efficient or effective business model. One could argue that G3 was reacting to Genmar’s more efficient/effective business model in the first place, but G3 took it to the next level. If you want to complain about having to get a matched boat and motor, complain about G3 … they are the ones that brought us this idea. Personally, I’m not bothered by it at all. I believe that economic efficiency and competition ultimately benefit the consumer (me).
Huh?
G3 was purchased by Yamaha in 97. Brunswick bought Lund and C-liner long after that. G3 had no dealers. They started from a grass roots level.
Brunswick “Told” established dealers of Lund and Crestliner boats what they would have to do. They drew the line and then told dealers to walk it or walk.
THEN they told the dealers they would be dropped, and only chosen “Super Dealers” would carry the Brunswick brands. Kind of a big difference if you ask me.
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Brunswick changed the way they sold their boats.
I do not know the answer to this, but was it Brunswick that changed the way they sold boats? Or was it Brunswick switched the way someone else (Genmar) sold boats????? I thought Brunswick just bought those companies???? I’m guessing it may of taken a while for the take over, etc., but I’m pretty sure Brunswick did not change the way they sold Crestliner’s or Lund’s. They may of changed the way Genmar sold them however.
I agree there is no doubt that Sales are lower for Brunswick. They are feeling the backlash of this decision currently (I don’t think it is 100% the reason, but probably a large volume). All the die hard Yammy / Evinrude etc. fans are going other to other boats. There perhaps are some die hard Lund/Cresltiner guys that are staying. Brunswick are big boys and I’m sure they have a plan and thought things through before making this decision as in regards to Mercury’s only on Lunds / Crestliner’s. But like I said earlier, things need to change in order to progress and evolve. You guys are looking at a small miniscule 3rd quarter or yearly report. The Brunswick Corporate Guys would like to do well every quarter. More importantly to them however, they need to strategic plan for many years in the future. You need to remember these guys are in it for the long haul and they just recently bought out another company and this decision we are debating by Brunswick, is the first step towards the future for them. I’m sure this is part of their long term strategic business plan. I’m guessing in the very near future (5 years or so this whole only Mercury thing on Lund/Cresltiner’s will be in the past for them. They plan to “weather” this storm they created now, adapt, change and prosper with new innovations and consumers in the future. The same way this Irwin Jacobs guy is trying to do, perhaps feeling the pressure or seeing this insight from Brunswick making him write this statement posted above to attempt to knock Brunswick out.
This is simple strategic business planning if you ask me. Do I like it?? Not sure, as I do not have all the facts and know what is behind this decision or how it will impact me in the future. . To sell the most or have the biggest increase in sales, does not indicate you are the best or have the best product.
You said “Brunswick changed the way they sold their boats” and that is what upset the public preception.
Irwin Jacobs knew that Brunswick would do that when he sold them both Lund and Crestliner, and now he is pointing fingers at them as an example of what is happening. Truth is….Brunswick really wasn’t in the boat business until it became neccessary for them to get into it. WHY?? Because between both Irwin Jacobs and Yamaha there were no more transoms for Mercury to hang their motors on except for smaller independent makers, who’s market share didn’t amount to nearly enough for Mercury to remain in business with.
Mark my words, there is a reason Irwin wants to see Brunswick have problems, and it is because he still wants to own Mercury.
Lip, come on. Take the blinders off. Before Brunswick, or even Genmar…Could you buy a Lund or C-liner with any motor in the world? Yep.
Look at the numbers from 5 years ago. For both companies. Brunswick made the concious decision to have a motor for every transom they built. It was a decision that they obviously thought would benefit them in. Short term has shown that not to be true.
I do know this. While at the boat show this last week, I searched out contacts from the two companies. And many are gone! Flat out left the companies! They could see the writing on the wall, and did not see the benefit of this change, and could see what it was doing to the market. Now C-Liner is down what? 34-38% depending on which numbers you look at? What changed? The boats have pretty much remained the same quality as ever. Some have even improved! So what is the big change? Ask a die hard Yamaha/Evinrude/Suzuki person what they would buy now? Crestliner and Lund will not be their answer.
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Lip, come on. Take the blinders off. Before Brunswick, or even Genmar…Could you buy a Lund or C-liner with any motor in the world? Yep.
Exactly my point Tuck. Brunswick did not change they way they sold Crestliners or Lund. Brunswick changed the way Genmar sold them. I was refering to James saying that Brunswick changed the way they sold Lunds & Cresltiners. 
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It was a decision that they obviously thought would benefit them in. Short term has shown that not to be true.
Exactly, what I said. But agian, I’m sure they are not looking ‘short term’. They made a change that they believe will benefit them in the long run. You don’t think they knew the would have to “weather a storm?”. That is exactly what they are doing right now.
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Ask a die hard Yamaha/Evinrude/Suzuki person what they would buy now? Crestliner and Lund will not be their answer.
Also what I said, if you read my last post.
With the recent announcement of Gander selling Trackers the consolidation of L & C dealers may have more of an impact than originally thought…
Am I the only one not following this? Brunswick did change the way THEY sold boats! Fairbairn and Olson ran Crestliners with BRP motors after Brunswick bought them.
Regardless, I will bet you a doughnut that one of two things happen. 1. I bet they change their sales model. 2. Someone buys them, and changes back to what worked. Then you will see a large swing in market share.
Pure speculation and opinion on my part…let’s see how it shakes out.
There’s no doubt that Brunswick will outlast this set back. They’re not going any place.
Lip… nobody cares how Genmar or brunswick sold boats before or after the sale, owners care about how lund or crestliner sold boats. Nobody ever said they owned a brunswick 1800 Pro V or a Genmar 202 TS.
The way those companies sell boats was changed. It has had a negative impact.
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