Fishing not hooking young people.

  • jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #1252837

    Interesting story from today Pioneer Press.

    (The link may require you to register as a user)

    http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/16386585.htm

    Fishing’s not hooking as many young people
    Officials, industry worry about Minnesota’s recreation future as traditions lose popularity
    BY CHRIS NISKANEN
    Pioneer Press
    A few days ago, Jed Knuttila was ice fishing on White Bear Lake and wondered aloud, “Where are all the kids who used to fish out here?”

    It’s now a proven fact — fewer young Minnesotans, especially those ages 16 to 44, are fishing these days, and the decline will likely continue, according to Department of Natural Resources officials.

    A new DNR study, to be released today, shows the number of licensed Minnesota anglers ages 16 to 44 declined 11 percent from 2000 to 2005. Minnesota’s population in the same category, however, grew by a half percent during the same period.

    Also, the median age of anglers grew from 41 to 43 in those five years, meaning half the state’s anglers were older or younger than those ages. Minnesota’s median age increased more slowly, from 35.4 to 36.2 years, in the same time period.

    “From what I can tell, most of us out here are in our 40s and 50s,” said Knuttila, 58, a retired biology teacher who lives in White Bear Lake. “Another guy and I discussed it just the other day — it’s sad, but it seems there aren’t as many kids fishing these days.”

    Such numbers are alarming in a state with 1.1 million anglers who contribute millions of dollars in license sales to the DNR and billions of dollars to a sport fishing industry made up of tackle manufacturers, retailers, resort operators and marine dealers.

    “We’re concerned about it and concerned about an important tradition in our state,” said Dave Schad, director of the DNR’s Fish and Wildlife Division.

    The age of Minnesota hunters and state park users also is rising faster than that of the general population. And national studies show the age of people who watch wildlife and birds for recreation and visit national parks is rising, and that fewer young people are taking up those pastimes.

    The number of Minnesota hunters ages 16 to 44 declined 14 percent from 2000 to 2005. As for state park users, “We are seeing some drop-off in participation, especially among young adults ages 16 to 34,” said Carmen Diestler, a spokeswoman for the DNR’s Division of Parks.

    A 1991-2001 U.S. Fish and Wildlife study, the most recent available, showed that the national participation rate of hunters and anglers dropped 31 percent and 32 percent respectively for young Americans ages 16 to 24. The number in that age group who watched birds or other wildlife dropped 45 percent.

    Total participation in some outdoor activities has increased because of increasing population as a whole. But declining participation rates are the best measure of the activities’ future as the baby boomer generation ages, experts say.

    The decline in young people participating in traditional outdoors activities is attributed in general to increased urbanization and a society of young people more interested in electronics and sports. A common refrain, experts said, is that young families don’t have enough time.

    “Kids are getting a lot of their experiences from video games, so it always comes back to having enough time,” said Courtland Nelson, director of the DNR’s Division of Parks. “Hence, our interest in getting young families more connected to state parks.”

    Nelson said his department will conduct new surveys this summer to try to figure out how to accomplish that. One idea might be to add more playground equipment, which would appeal to mothers, he said.

    “Playground equipment will be controversial,” Nelson said, because some park users desire open space and primitive areas.

    Schad said the DNR is discussing an active recruitment and marketing campaign to add more anglers and hunters to the state’s ranks.

    That might include billboard campaigns or funding more fishing clinics aimed at young people. “Some of the Eastern states have actually tried to market angling opportunities, and they’ve seen real success,” Schad said.

    The DNR began to track the ages of hunters and anglers when Minnesota began selling hunting and fishing licenses electronically in 2000.

    While Minnesota has experienced a slow decline in the fishing participation rate for decades, increases in the population kept the number of license sales relatively strong, said Tim Kelly, a DNR researcher who wrotethe new report and presents it today at the DNR’s annual citizen roundtable in St. Cloud.

    But when he analyzed license sales by age groups for the past years, a startling trend emerged.

    “It’s clear that fewer young people are getting involved in fishing and young adults are dropping out,” Kelly said. “Actually, it’s a young adult thing.”

    The biggest decline in angling participation, Kelly said, occurred in the 25- to 34-year-old group, where there was a 12 percent drop.

    Tim Meers, 58, is a lifelong angler from Maplewood, and he knows the situation well. He took his son, Philip, fishing for the first time when the boy was 18 months old. Today, Philip is 29 and has a year-old son, and grandfather Tim worries that they won’t have time to fish.

    “A lot of young families are working hard to make money these days, and they don’t have time,” he said. “I do see a lot more older people fishing than younger families these days.”

    Tim Martin, vice president for public relations for St. Paul-based Gander Mountain Co., an outdoors retailer, said his company is anticipating changes in its fishing customers.

    He said Gander Mountain is improving its signage and marketing of entry-level rods and reels. It also has a wide line of rods and reels based on cartoon characters.

    “I understand the Barbie rod and reel is quite popular among young girls,” he said.

    Knuttila worries about a young generation missing out on nature experiences.

    “I call it our remote-control society,” he said. “If kids don’t like it, they hit a button and change it. They have a hard time sitting on a bucket and looking at a bobber.”

    Chris Niskanen can be reached at [email protected] or 651-228-5524.

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #518968

    It is the age of the XBOX and PSP and PS2 and 3, and the Wii.

    Sad, but kid’s priorities have changed, That, and the huge number of single parent families is my take on it.

    Shane Hildebrandt
    Blaine, mn
    Posts: 2921
    #518984

    not only the larger numbers of single family households but also the kids are being told that strangers are bad and they arn’t supposed to talk to them. I remember going to and bugging all of my neighbors when I was a kid. if I saw them in thier boat, i was there asking questions and climbing all over it. now days it is like oh wow, he gots a boat. I have been watching 2 little kids here that live in my trailer park go riding by my house all summer long with rods and tackle boxes and a bag to put fish in. well I gave them my unused worms and bait, I gave them a bag with a shoulder strap on it and I have even gotten my pole and walked next to them all the way down to thier little pot hole that they are fishing, they didn’t catch any big ones, but they were catching tator chips.

    it comes down to it, that why I believe in the difference that ARM makes in just one day. there have been kids that have gone home with a rod and reel and a little bit of knowledge on how to fish and they continue to go out and fish. looking forward to this years event, hope to see you all down there, the more numbers we can get the more lives we can infuluence and introduce to fishing or teach them more about fishing.

    shane

    steve k
    buffalo co. wi.
    Posts: 219
    #519006

    Could you give me a PM TO TELL ME MORE ABOUT ARM,Sounds like something I would be interested in.

    redneck
    Rosemount
    Posts: 2627
    #519007

    I’m no expert on this subject but I have some definite view points. I think to get a child interested in fishing today you have to start them early before they get “addicted” to the video games and such. I started the boy fishing at about 2. It takes commitment from the adult to get a child interested in fishing but the rewards last a lifetime. I’m not talking about taking a child once or twice a year but when you go they go. It takes a change in style because there is no stopping at the bar on the way home but that isn’t a bad thing. Believe me, they grow up way too fast as it is so enjoy every second with them! There is no better place to bond than those hours fishing. Some day I am going to dig out all the old pictures I have of the boy growing up. I have pictures of diaper stage all the way up with him holding fish or fishing. Ahhhh, the memories!

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #519009

    Exactly. When I was a kid, I was lucky to have grown up living on a lake. We always had a boat and a fishhouse. We would spend most of the day swimming or fishing or skiing. We had the Atari’s and such, but most time was spent outdoors. I often wonder how many kid’s nowadays, wear out bicycle tires like we did when we were kids ??? I only see kids on skateboards now.

    big g

    sliderfishn
    Blaine, MN
    Posts: 5432
    #519019

    Quote:


    I think to get a child interested in fishing today you have to start them early before they get “addicted” to the video games and such. I started the boy fishing at about 2. It takes commitment from the adult to get a child interested in fishing but the rewards last a lifetime.




    I love fishing by myself or with friends but with that said, I make trips with my kids every chance that I get. Those trips are more fun than chasing big smallies.

    Tangled lines, getting hit with hooks/bobbers, spilling minnows, candy and pop spilled, losing fishing equipment, etc. are part of the day and you need to know that is going to happen every time out. Kids get bored fast so make the trips fun, boat rides, letting them help drive, bring toys, fill up the livewell and put a sunfish or two in it but most important is getting them on fish, any fish. The other most important thing to keep in mind is when they want to go, GO, the trip is for them not you. There is nothing better than watching a child reeling in a fish, grinning from ear to ear.

    I think that it is up to the parents to take time from the busy schedule that we all have and spend some quality time with the future of our sport. It is time that is truly priceless.

    Ron

    broncosguy
    Blaine, MN
    Posts: 2106
    #519025

    exactly Ron . any chance I get to fish with the kids I take advantage of it especially now. Everytime we go to the in-laws in Wisconsin we are out fishing. I think I stand on the dock for about 2-4 hours if not more a day taking fich off and re-baiting the hooks for my 3,4 and 7 year olds. And that does not include when the other kids come up on the holidays. Last July I spent about 5 hours 1 day just baiting, un hooking and helping them cast. even taught my 7 year old to acurately flip into the lilly pads for the bass. Would not give that up for anything.

    Broncs

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #519036

    My kids addicted to the video games too.. but he jumps at any chance he has to go fishing. Most of the fishing nights are in the summer months for cats so the video game comes along and keeps him content if theres nobody to play with, or tired of toys.

    Around the twin cities.. its getting harder to be able to take your kids fishing for the average parent to take your kids fishing. We only have 1/2 the fishing docks we used to(maybe less), they seem to get them out later every year. Not everyone has childrens rods capable of casting far enough from shore for general panfishing. Lakes that used to be better for shore fishing with kids they have surrounded by a fence(lake of the isles) to make an effort to create wetlands.. yeah, that will make shore fishing easier. You have to pay to park if you can find a parking spot anywhere near where you want to fish in the busy months. Places that used to have good numbers of panfish in the spring turn into shoulder to shoulder fishing.. finding enough room for your younger kids to cast often means relocating to where the fish arent.. kids lose interest not catching fish for too long.

    If you want your kids to get hooked on fishing in the metro, its going to take some time and effort.

    As for the overall number of people fishing.. is this compared to the number of people in the state vs people fishing, or actual numbers of people fishing(maybe I overlooked). In the metro, the population has grown greatly… especially in immigrants. I havent seen a samolian fish yet of any age, but I seen about 30 of the women in the labor and delivery area of the hospital when Sherry was in having our last child… thats a whole lot of non fishing individuals overall that would alter some statistics.

    Todd_NE
    Posts: 701
    #519069

    The nebraska walleye association does a TREMENDOUS job sponsoring kids clinics. Many of the members have been unbelievable, this year there is a major corporate sponsor too.

    For some great pictures and reading go to

    NWA HOME PAGE

    and hit the link to Kids Fishing Clinics

    cougareye
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 4145
    #519073

    Whether its an organization like Big Brothers/Sisters or just a general population mix of kids, any opportunity we get to promote the outdoors/fishing we should be taking advantage of it.

    Shane Hildebrandt
    Blaine, mn
    Posts: 2921
    #519081

    well I am pretty well hooked into the BB/BS organization and one thing that i have heard from other bigs is that they really don’t know much about fishing so they feel that they wouldn’t know how to teach thier “littles” to fish. I have been trying to get more interest in the ARM event and maybe even doing a seperate event around the Twin cities for those who can’t make it on a friday. but again, it takes alot of patience and determination to get a young kid involved and participate in fishing. now next year my oldest boy will be in the boat with me, unless the weather is nasty, but even then he still wants to go in the boat with daddy.

    shane

    gjk1970
    Annandale Mn.
    Posts: 1260
    #519118

    Easy solution to get kids back into fishing, install one of those portable flat screens in your boat from walmart for a hundred bucks and hook there playstations up to it they will go out and you wont hear a word from them til the battery dies…
    In all reality we need to find someway to entice kids to venture into the outdoors and enjoy what nature has to offer..

    Todd_NE
    Posts: 701
    #519141

    Not to editorialize too much…

    But I think the future holds much better promise for fishing than hunting. Simply because 90% of fishing occurs (or whatever the %) on public waters.

    90% of hunting occurs on private land.

    I used to disagree with those that thought pay hunting would take over, but with high grain prices farmers will plant marginal acres, increasing recreational land purchasing, and straight leases it is definitely becoming a “rich man’s game” as I used to hate to think of it…

    I sure hope switchgrass biofuel takes off. That would be a huge boon to the Midwest in terms of expanded prairie, reduced water use, etc. Many of the ag industry folks are going after a reduction in CRP though because CRP owners don’t buy as much equipment, fuel, seed, chemicals, pivots and the like…

    T

    KirtH
    Lakeville
    Posts: 4063
    #416536

    Doing my part

    sliderfishn
    Blaine, MN
    Posts: 5432
    #415849

    Quote:


    Doing my part



    And to that walleye

    Ron

    KirtH
    Lakeville
    Posts: 4063
    #415321

    And this one also.

    I think people now days put to much emphisis on kids sports, look how much time it takes up.

    KirtH
    Lakeville
    Posts: 4063
    #415041

    And you cant forget hunting, our new 8 month old lab

    Art
    Posts: 439
    #412623

    I think a lot of it also has too do with the money side of it. I’ve seen it happen. Was in a store couple years ago and a guy was looking for an outfit for himself and his 5 year old boy. Guy said he had’nt fished since he was a kid but wanted to take his son.By the time the salesperson got done with him he was looking at $300. Guy walked out with nothing. Iknow I spend a lot of money on fishing but I think something should be done so people get educated on the basics they need to start. When I was a kid(IN THE 50’s) the local hardware store had all you needed. Some hooks, line, sinkers, canepoles, Zebco 202’s, and maybe some lures. Majority of fish we caught were bullheads and carp. Dug our own worms. Don’t get me wrong, I love the way fishing is now but too somebody that is new at it, it looks like a big investment. A kid 3-5 years old catches some fish they’re hooked. I don’t care what kind of fish it is. Just look at the fishing shows on tv. I realize somebody has to pay for them, but look at what they advertize just to catch sunfish. I think we need to educate people that they can have fun fishing without buying everything. I have 10 brothers and sisters and we all fish. All my nieces and newphews have fished and a lot of them are hooked for life. Some of us are into it pretty heavy and others just enjoy a couple days a year drowning a worm. Just my opion.

    VikeFan
    Posts: 525
    #418052

    I agree with everyone else that the allure of high technology, and the lack of time for many parents to take their kids out to the lake or river, is behind a lot of the real drop in the number of kids fishing today. I also applaud organizations and individuals who are doing something about it.

    However, I want to suggest that the recruitment numbers of young fisher-people *may* in the long run not be as bad as the statistics in the Pioneer-Press article would lead us to believe. If I am correct, the key is in the fact that kids in their late teens and twenties tend to stop buying licenses, according to the Minnesota DNR. I suspect that many of these lapsed anglers may return to the sport once they have sown their wild oats.

    I loved to fish when I was a kid, and returned to the sport with a passion in mid-twenties. (I am now thirty-four.) In my late teens and early twenties, though, I hardly ever fished, as I was too busy doing things that aren’t really fit to be described on this site. Once killing brain cells, skirting the law, and pursuing the fairer sex on a nightly basis lost some of their appeal, I started fishing again. I believe that a lot of the twenty-somethings who stopped buying licenses will return in their thirties and forties when they start families or need a new (old) hobby that gives them more than video games or a night in the bars.

    Bottom line: while recruitment of new fisher-people is a concern, I am not sure things are as bad as is suggested. Now, if we talk about the decline in the percentage of people who hunt we are facing a more serious problem.

    Dwindling access to land, urbanization, lack of time to teach kids to hunt, and attacks by anti-hunters are having a far more serious impact on the future of hunting that they are on the future of fishing, IMO.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #412267

    I think price has alot to do with it. I feel when people go into a store and tally up the price of the things they would like to have they say hey its cheaper to just by a video game and not leave the house. Its probably alot of things, money it takes for equipment, the price of gasoline and thats not even considering a small boat or canoe. I think if it was a little cheaper to the point where entry level equipment was cheaper more people would be taking it up. With the other alternatives that are available today some are probably saying lets do something else, its cheaper. I know how i feel about the price i pay for my liscenses, i think thier way too much even considering what they do with the money, what do new people think when they find out the price for a lisense is $22 bucks or more, i think a first timer should only pay $5.00 for thier first, secong year maybe $10 then full price after they see how much enjoyment they can have fishing. Full price for a fishing liscense when thier not even sure they really want to fish or get disapointed when they don’t catch anything is probably another reason. Things aren’t the same as they were when we were growing up, most people fished for food on the table and bragging rights for the huge fish they caught and we went with them and took it up, there wasen’t that many other things to do compared to what people can do today. A simple investment of around $100 for a couple liscenses and a couple cheaper poles is weighed by what they can do in other things and how much fun they can have doing those with that same $100 bucks. They have free fishing day or weekend, i forget, for everyone here in Iowa on those day(s) a year, i think some people only fish on that givin time because its free. I know a family of four like this, i know part of the reason is they would have to spend $100 just for liscenses for the four of them, that changes peoples minds thinking about what else they could have with that $100 bucks. The fun dosen’t rub off as much from one person to another when there that much money involved. Both my kids are outdoors oriented but i was befor them and spent alot of money to get them thier because i liked it and wanted to teach them and did. I know alot of people don’t want to spend thier money for first time fun when thier not skilled and think why should i do that and not even catch anything, if prices were more affordable for first timers until they began to like it that would bring in others.

    cb2
    Bemidji, MN
    Posts: 154
    #426946

    as an 18 year old, (in the category you all speak of), i havn’t been fishing the past couple years because i started working. i know that is not an excuse for all. some of my friends have free time that they could go fishing, but they would rather sit and watch movies or play video games. i enjoy to fish and hunt. i used to fish from shore at least every weekend before my parents got there tri hull boat from the auction (and before work)

    gjk1970
    Annandale Mn.
    Posts: 1260
    #519235

    CB2~
    Don’t be blaming your lack of fishing on (WORK)! You usually have your two days off each week unless you cover someone elses shift. But when you and I live in an area with so many lakes in our own back yard there is no excuse you or I cannot get out fishing everyday besides the blame of our own.

    cb2
    Bemidji, MN
    Posts: 154
    #519374

    oh i know dang well that it is mostly my fault. i have gotten lazy in the past years, but work doesn’t help the factor much either. not saying it is the main factor. this summer i will get out more. before the schooling begins

    mccrty_ryn
    Holmen, WI
    Posts: 173
    #519469

    I have two girls 5 and 6 I take them every chance I get. I havent seen many kids on the ice latly not as many as I used too. When I do see them they are being yelled at to be quite or sit down and fish. What fun is going fishing if all you get is yelled at? Right? younger kids are going to be impatient and want to play. So to ensure they have fun I find a spot a little away from where others are fishing drill about 5-10 hole and tell them that they are all theirs. That keeps them busy for about an hour. Then I go fish next to them that keeps them excited for about two hours then I find a safe place in view and away from everyone they can play for the rest of the trip. small plans like this help to ensure young ones have a fun time while fishing and it gets them hooked. Sometimes I think they love it more than I do.

    bill_cadwell
    Rochester, Minnesota
    Posts: 12607
    #519474

    From what I see [not so much about the article] is that there are very few young people fishing compared to what there use to be. Gone are the days when you would dream of and someday buying a 14ft boat with a 9.9 motor on it. People are now seeing that, in their minds, that you need a 20,000-50,000 boat to be a fisherman and with not being able to afford the big boat that the boat companies and anglers push for sales giving the impreesion that you need to have they feel they can’t be a fisherman. The boating industry is killing itself by this. We, the people who started out small and grew into different bigger boats, have the bigger boats now. But the boat companies aren’t pushing small boats too which is costing them gaining the average young person [future fishermen] to buy and get into fishing.

    WE, meaning us anglers and the boat companies, need to push fishing and smaller fishing boats too or our love for fishing will find nobody to pass it on too years down the road. And those years down the road are coming up faster than we think. You don’t need a big fancy boat to enjoy fishing. My youngest son Nate use to ride his bike down to Foster Arends Lake, which is only a few miles from where I live, when he was a kid all the time as he couldn’t get in enough fishing. As he got older, well lets just say that if he wasn’t in school, the teachers and I knew where to find him. I use to hear from friends about all those days my towing vehicle was seen sitting in the parking lot at Colvil Park in Red Wing. lol. When Nate was young I had a 14 ft boat with bench seats and added goodies but the boat wasn’t a fancy one. Then for 8 years I had a 16ft boat [Lund Rebel] which had a floor and pedistal seats and livewell but not fancy like most of my friends boats. We caught alot of fish from those boats. Didn’t need a huge boat to fish. I now have a blast when I leave the Alumacraft at home and take my 14 ft jon boat with just a 9.9 Johnson motor. Still catch alot of fish in the smaller boat too. We need to get kids involved in fishing. Doesn’t matter if its shore fishing, small boat fishing or bigger boat fishing. Just get them out fishing and push the fact that you can fish in whatever boat you can afford and from shore too.
    Thanks, Bill

    willie boy
    Cornhusker Central ... HELP!
    Posts: 241
    #519500

    Bill,
    (new guy here)…I think you’ve definitely touched on a couple of good points…while not old enough to have ‘fished’ that decade, folks used to go out ‘anywhere’ in 14/15 foot boats and smaller outboards. Now, if you’re not running a 19+ foot boat with a 200hp outboard, you’re pretty much ‘not a player’…

    That said, while percentages are important numbers, it’s also very helpful that ‘all’ numbers are up. That’s what will/does drive the tax engines that contribute to our favorite outdoor agencies.

    As for me, I do just fine in my little 16 foot john boat with a 40hp outboard. Take the kids whenever they want to go…in fact, my son and I take a spring trip every year (started with he was 11)…and last year, I got my daughter started (she too, was 11)…

    I do, however, think the focus has to be less on fishing and more ‘enjoyment of the outdoors’…last year, my daughter Brogan and I took our first camping trip together up to Roy Lake in SD. We went in August (not such good fishing) for several reasons, one of the biggest was to try and watch the Perseid meteor showers. while there, she took a bunch of photos of various wildlife about…we fished perhaps 4 hours during 2.5 days (I would have liked much more)…but focussed on her enjoyment…and you know what? I had an absolute ball as well…


    This is Brogan with her first ever smallmouth

    and a photo of an egret we ‘hunted down’ to get close enough for photos…

    2catch1
    Posts: 82
    #519502

    I am only 26 and I am very happy for what I have and have had over the years. I got my 1st boat at age 12 which was a leaky old 10ft jon boat. My buddies and I rigged a red flyer to our bikes and towed it over a mile to go Northern fishing. This happened everyday in summer. A couple years later we got a 12 footer with a Minnkota which I kept at a house on the creek in our town. Yes, I went down the street up to each house and asked the home owners if I could keep my boat in there backyard!!! 2nd house was a keeper!!! (thank god the 1st guy was strange at least!!!) After I got my liscence I got a 14 footer with a 15 evinrude (still own motor!) and so on. Now my wife just let me buy an Alumacraft 165cs Navigator last fall and we love it. I really owe all this to a couple people. My dad, my mom for letting him get me out of school to fish! and my Grandpa, who still lives 2 blocks from the River in Winona. I remember when even my closest friends were out playing video games and going to parties I’d be out fishing. I am hooked for life!! Now where’s that 10lb Walleye????

    steve-fellegy
    Resides on the North Shores of Mille Lacs--guiding on Farm Island these days
    Posts: 1294
    #520327

    If posting this web-page is not within the rules….feel free to dust it. But I think this organization is interesting and can/should be studied by us all since it seems to fit ALL.

    http://www.anglerslegacy.org

    Take “the pledge”.

    Steve Fellegy
    218-678-3103

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #520328

    Where do these people come from? This is a letter to the editor printed in today’s paper. All I can say is WOW!

    Another explanation

    After reading “Fishing’s not hooking as many young people” (Jan. 5), it’s clear to me the DNR and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have overlooked an obvious explanation as to why the numbers of anglers and hunters are declining. That is, our younger generation has evolved. They have learned compassion!

    More and more, they choose to admire God’s creation and take no pleasure in destroying it needlessly. They realize, whether arrow, hook, shot or trap, they all cause suffering. Having compassion and living cruelty-free are admirable traits, as beautiful as the animals themselves.

    MICHAEL BULLERMAN

    Woodbury

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 42 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.