Post of Political or Religious Nature…

Good call.

So does this mean posts that bash the DNR (or natural resource based federal agencies) and native american tribes will be removed too?

I know I always like ignorant updates concerning those “idiots” at the DNR…

Any post that bashes any group will be deleted.

Have been waiting for this. I have participated in some of these “political” discussions… never started one though…. I can’t recall a religious one ??? Good move for the site James.

big g

Jim,

First, let me say that I think the service you provide via IDA is priceless. The overall value users can gain from the IDA site is beyond computation. I for one, feel indebted… to say the least.

I think your view on the DNR/political issues covers all one can ask per your previous answer to my rambling.

I would hope, in this case as should be in ANY case, when there is CONSTRUCTIVE scrutiny and or critical info passed on for all to know, analyze and in the end— learn enough to develop a fact based opinion on a subject, that the IDA take would be welcoming. The difference between “bashing” and “scrutiny” or being “critical” using a FACT based reasoning, surely should be easily recogonized.

I will make a “test cast” soon….lol

Again…THANK YOU for IDA! This site is 2nd to NONE!

Steve Fellegy
218-678-3103

Ps. Assuming most users are reading these posts on this thread, let me address an issue with/about me that has been bothersome to a few. Re: posting my phone number with my signature.

1. I am not, in any form or fashion, intending this to be viewed as advertising anything by doing so. I have nothing to sell! I have not had an active guiding business for years and if I needed to start it up again full time, as we did for over 30 previous years, we would do so without a need for advertising. I run about five “charity” trips a year and about 3-5 paying trips a year. That’s all I have time for!

2. The REAL name and FULL contact info is there to insure whatever I post is viewed as MY info, that I will stand behind in total. It is my way of kinda sending a message that being upfront on the internet message boards is truly the way to go instead of all the alias based info we see and hear daily.

So—all you get with my phone number, which I invite anyone to dial anytime, is an answer to a question you might have, some advice if I have any related to your needs and maybe a couple fish stories or some history from my past 50 years on Mille Lacs.

‘Nuf said! “shut up Fellegy”!!!!!!!

Well said Steve. I, for one, am happy to have you here and I’m equally pleased that you have found IDA to be of benefit to you. Kepp doing what you do, sir.

James, I spent about half the day deciding whether to agree or disagree with your decision. Because politics and religion are such hot topics, and probably increase my blood pressure, my initial decision was right on with deleting this stuff, until my niece called me an hour or so ago.

As a bit of background her dad and mom are deceased, her husband is a graduate of Stanford University and his father is extremely wealthy. My niece produces cartoon characters for TV networks and her husband is basically a publicist for some of the Holywood stars.

Yet, today she informed me they are buying their deceased parents home and moving back to Winona, MN. There oldest son, now 5, is already in school in Winona.

Much of their decision has to do with California politics and it unfortunate I am no longer able to comment on this board regarding this issue. I would like to share a bit more, but your recent decision probably prohibits that.

I also wonder if your 1% comment, immaterial in my mind, might actually result in greater losses because of your recent decision.

Finally, I personally appreciate the different views of folks on this board and am sorry to see it end.

Thanks for listening and I trust I haven’t been too opinionated already.

Been reading the replies here for a couple of days, wondering how people would react to this… As for me, it’s James’ playground and James’ rules, and I’m more than happy to abide by them.

It did get me thinking though.

(Trip down memory lane to follow)

I remember when I first stumbled across this site, searching for info on Mississippi river fishing info. It was just after I bought my boat, and wanted to make a trip up to pool 11. The Iowaoutdoors website is pretty much dominated by central-state anglers, and there wasn’t a lot of good river info for the Miss, so I started hunting around. I did end up finding two websites: sauger.com, and http://www.fishtheriver.com.

Sauger.com has been gone for several years now. At the time, it was a much slicker, friendlier format, but it just didn’t get the hits that fishtheriver got, in spite of the fact that fishtheriver was just a single page, outline format, blue text on a yellow background website with maybe 30 or 40 registered members with kooky names like ~H20~, RiverEyes, StillaKid2 (was there a Stillakid1?), etc.

As Buckwheat said: “Been a lawn time tince dem days.”

That was probably eight years ago, so this thread got me thinking: What is it about this message board that has brought me back three, four, five, or more times every week for eight years of my life? The total in hours is probably astounding, but right now I’d say it’s been worth every minute.

Is it the fishing info? Maybe once or twice a month, when I’m able to get away and do some of my own. Probably not, though, since most of the info is dominated by the Northern pools.

Is it the political discussions? Definitely not, since (as has been noted) there are other places more suited to doing that.

Is it the ‘how to’ and the ‘outdoor gear’ talk? Well, I spend more time replying trying to help others than I do asking questions of my own, so that’s probably a net loss as well.

Hmmmm…..

Recently, a post was made of a political nature regarding “What makes us Americans.” There was a lot of discussion, and I posted some things, along with a note that the post really got me thinking about what makes us “Americans” outside of the fact that we happen to have been born or moved here.

It’s been a week or so, and I think I’ve come up with an answer that I believe in: “Free Association, American Style.”

Our fabulous first amendment right to free association means we can choose to interact with whomever we like, and I say, ‘American style’ because we choose to bond and form communities. To pick a line from Something About Mary, “I love you goofy monkeybutts.” In-depth (and it’s predecessor websites) have changed greatly in the last eight years, but the people who made it great have not. The landscape has changed, but we are still the same community regardless of the message font and the advertisement at the top of the page.

We have our leader (James ~H20~ Holst)
We have our preacher (StillaKid2)
We have our crazy uncle (Brian “Beach Brian” K)
We have our town drunk (Gianni)
etc.

Through the years, the most valuable discussions on IDA have had nothing to do with fishing. We’ve prayed for those in need or in poor health, we’ve helped others through divorce, job loss, and hard times, we’ve shared the happiness of marriage, children, family, and friendship.

I’ve fished with dozens of people from this website, and every outing has been fantastic. I don’t believe that we’ve all agreed on everything, but we are able to enjoy the outdoors and respect each others opinions. For those of us who have been around a while, it’s easy to walk away from a political argument with no hard feelings because we’re bound by these common threads: respect for each other, love of the outdoors, and the in-depth angling community.

For the most part, our arguments have been thought provoking, educational, and fun. I regret that they will be removed entirely because of a few who cannot share this website with people of differing opinions, but these are the times in which we live.

[/endGianni’slastpoliticalpost]

I can go along with the decision. A note to those who get offended though…If you don’t like it don’t read it. If you do read it and still don’t like it, feel free to express your right to an opinion, and respect the other person’s right to express theirs as well.

Dear Gianni,

Bless your Soul brother. So very well said. I too have much anxiety about this, because who we support politacally has an impression on our resources, and environment. If we cant express ourselves here than where can we? I could go to Republicans.com but they probably don’t care about a fishermen and hunter on that website.
+

I have been putting much thought to this post most everyday. I listen to talk radio and here about all the changes we must do because someone is offended. We cant talk about christianiaty, or pray in school, but Muslims get to sue because they cant pray 5 times a day and get kicked off airplanes, beause we dont understand them or there culture. Well in America we now must put our culture and our beliefs aside and not speak of them lest anybody should be offended. The very rights and freedoms our children and husbands and wives are fighting for right now.And we must put them aside because of a few that dont like it. I am so sorry, but please help me understand. I have seen soooooooooooooooo many posts that I just dont care to read, and you know what I dont read them. I have seen signatures at the end of peoples posts that strike me as weird, you know what? I dont read them either. And I can assure you I dont lose a seconds sleep over it either.

This truly is a wonderful site developed by a few men who had a vision, and with a little intestional fortatude made it into a great forum where ALL are welcome to share the loss of a dog, a friend or loved one. We ask for prayers and they are given. But for how much longer? soon that will offend someone and it will go away as well.

Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

That is what happened here a few complained and look MANY must change for the few that wont. Or cant.

I agree religion and politics will separate family and friends, that is why I only discuss them with friends and family where we can respectfully agree to disagree and still love each other. It is possible to have different views and opinions, but to let those differences seperate us from the possible last bastian of hope is just more than I can bare. As I have stated earlier I will continue to support this site and the people who make the rules. Although this is a little hard to fully understand.

With much respect to James and the crew.

Paul Follmer

We’ll still have plenty to disagree on, trust me.

But seriously now… we’re really talking about a very specific type of post. We have a small group of people that regularly posted politically “loaded” threads that more or less said “conservatives, liberals, republicans, or democrats (you pick the flavor)” were at fault or to blame for one thing or another.

Republicans are to blame for oil prices. (nonsense)

Liberals will erode family values. (hogwash)

Conservatives are religious whackos. (by now I’m hoping you get the picture.)

I’m paraphrasing to a LARGE degree with the statements above but if you go back and look this type of post had one and only one type of outcome… full-blown back-and-forth attacks, never based on factual evidence and designed to assign blame in the simplest form for some of the most complicated issues we collectively face. This type of post attempted to be disguised as a request for ideas for a solution but what they were in fact was a passive aggressive lashing out, brought on by frustration and lack of control to change the issues that troubled the poster.

But let’s try some thing different. What is allowed? Even encouraged?

The concern that has come up a couple times now, and rightfully so, is that the option to discuss concerns over issues facing our natural resources has been lost on this site. So we’ll use that as an example to illustrate a point.

This is NOT accurate. What has been lost is our tolerance, to any degree, of a discussion that assigns blame or attacks a group or person.

Try this…

Post Example #1 – Project X would set aside funds to improve existing boat ramps at X number of lakes around the state. Support for this project is limited in the house so please email or call your representatives asking for their support. Please call if you want to see this bill supported.

Or, example #2….

The anti-environment republican politicians are refusing to back Bill X,Y,Z which would provide funding formore boat ramps around the state. Let’s vote these big-money scheisters out of office before the destroy everything.

Do you see the difference. Can you extrapolate and envision the different outcomes of the respective discussions?

Sadly, our discussions have drifted too far towards resembling Example #2.

The largest change here has been not in what can be discussed… but HOW it can be discussed. We’re done ASKING for people to discuss topics in ways that are mindful of other people’s dignity, self-respect and identity and retain the slightest chance for a positive outcome. We’re demanding it. Or we hit the delete key. Mostly because it makes us sad, it disheartens us, to see such like minded people picking at each other in this way.

I for one could see the lines of division growing daily. I had talked with numerous people that had been hurt deeply by the way a member had responded to their post… and some people had walked away for good with a promise to never return to a place they now found to be more hurtful than helpful.

In closing, this is not an example of a minority “whining” and changing how a majority lives their lives or conducts themselves on this site. This is an example of how the MAJORITY that participated in this type of thread necessitated the change due to their actions.

For the time being this will be the last comment I make on this matter. Feel free to discuss further should you find the need. I’ll reserve further interaction for people with questions about how we actually applied the change in policy in regards to a specific thread. My gut tells me that there will be very few complaints and much more of an understanding for our direction once everyone has seen the policy put into practice.

James your examples are perfect and really helped me understand what I was missing.

Thank you for your time

paul follmer

Obviously the point of this thread is clear.. and doesnt need a thumbs up or down… it is what it is…. so what I say merely adds my 2 cents worth…
Its easy to find sites where there are cliques.. and in-fighting is rampant…. in fact pretty much every site Ive ever been on has sooner or later suffered from such things.. the only exception is THIS site… My name was on Giannis list of “strange names”… yep.. I was one of the early ones here…. and it was the fact that it was an extended family that kept me here.. and kept me coming back.. Ive not been as active as I was at one time.. but its NOT because this isnt still a great site filled with great members.. it is… and James has always had an uncanny knack as a peacemaker.. but its seldom been needed….
when it comes to volatile subjects… politics and religion head the list… I participated in some of the threads in question.. no doubt… and though sometimes I tried to be a peacemaker.. I think pretty much the ONLY thing you could really do was not to participate at all.. in such touchy subjects virtually anything you said would agravate one group or another.. even sometimes several groups at the same time…. it really just wasnt worth the damage it caused… I actually feel that it has negatively affected my relationship with some members… I hope thats not true… but it feels like it is…. as for myself.. I will be happy to confine myself to other subjects…. ones more likley to be of interest… instead of being devisive…. and hopefully.. if Ive caused any wounds… they will all heal quickly….

I agree with this policy, this site has always been a great palce for me to visit. I have gotten sucked into a few heated debates around here, but as a fishing and hunting information site, I agree it will be better long term if we keep the site “clean” of political/religous opinions and views. If guys need such disscusion I am sure there are tons of sites they can visit for that. Thank You for the site…..another thing that seems to be- What you write on a key board dosen’t always sound the way you really inteneded to say it. It seems to me that a keyboard is not a place for true debate of opinions and thoughts, life is way more complicated and thought process is way more intense than what can be plucked away on a key board….

My only regret about the decision is that IDA gave a person a chance to make a political point to people who disagree with you. On Talk Radio or the various political websites when something is discussed and someone is making a really good point it is preaching to the choir. And the fact that the folks on this website share a mutual passion and, I feel, are my friends and people I care about is why I like to discuss issues I think are important with them.

But I understand James’ decision to make this move. Keeping things cival and respectful is important and is the key to the long-term success of IDA. It is too bad that people are unable to be respectful of others when it comes to beliefs and opinions on important topics. But the fishing and hunting is what we are here for and I enjoy that first and foremost.

dd

A policy that has been needed for quite some time
This is the first time I have checked the General Discussion in a month as I was sick of the constant political bashfest threads.
Thank You