Hunters, anglers must provide Social Security num.

From today’s Star Tribune. (Minnesota)

http://www.startribune.com/stories/468/3798945.html

If it really gets deadbeat dads to pay for their kids, go for it. I think people that don’t take care of their children are some of the lowest scum on this planet!

I made a post kind of like this, I was in Wisconsin with my neighbors, they needed my social security number, of course every body else memorized it. I had to call my folks and they were not home. I missed about an hour of fishin, I was mad, but Oh well ?????

Can anyone explain why there was such resistance to this law?? Thanks!!

Does anyone imagine the typical “dead beat dad” forking over thousands of dollars worth of back child support to get a fishing license? I don’t, it just seems like another one of those “feel good” type of laws that cost law abiding citizens time and money but does nothing in the way of solving the problem.

How is giving your S.S.# to get your fish/hunt license going to cost you any money?

What about all the Amish folks who do not have SS#’s? I did not read the article, so I am not sure if they mentioned that. I know when WI went to the computerized system they had that problem.

The reason for resistance to such laws comes from a concept called Freedom. It’s bad enough that we have social security numbers much less allow our government to track our every action. If you believe the only reason for supplying your ssn is to track dead beat dads you’d better pull your head out before it’s too late.

The Amish use a federal identification number, the same number they use for tax purposes. They are required to pay the same taxes as everyone else except for Social Security if they are self employed.

What does SSN stand for again? Social “Serial” Number?

You know, so many of us are never going to see any SS returned to us that I keep waiting for someone to contest a need for an SSN. When that happens, they’ll probably have the “HIN” waiting……………”Human Identification Number”.

Yeah, this is another resource for tracking someone down but someone who wants to disappear bad enough isn’t using his/her own SSN anyway. If it really works at all it’s only weeding out the thoughtless.

Not providing a SSN when you get your fishing license will prevent you from getting one. How many people who decide that they don’t want to pay for their own kids are really going to worry about the government’s okay for them to go fishing?
I don’t think it will produce much, but like kid said, only the stupid will get caught. Oh well, I guess this proves that Darwin’s theory of natural selection was right.
Steve

If you reread my post, you will see that I started with “IF.” IF it helps track deadbeats down, this law is a good thing. IF it is used for other purposes, then that is wrong. I am as skeptical of the government as anyone, maybe more so. So before you tell me what to do with my head, make sure you know what I said.

While I tote the freedom banner as high as anyone, I don’t think “Freedom” means fathering children and then abandoning their needs. “Responsibility” is a big part of freedom, and more people need to take responsibility for their actions.

BFD,

I think the circle of misunderstanding is now complete. I don’t think he was defending anyone skipping responsibility but stating freedom as a condition of not being tracked for 100% accountability to the government for our time, placement, and activiity. Unfortunately, as much as I agree with that piece of living free, now that terrorism has reached our country and our way of life, it may be an evil necessity for it’s prevention.

As for what to do with your head, I think it was a general statement directed at anyone who believes their SSN is only there for financial matters, figuratively meant.

I agree 100% with you BFD, in that the lack of accountability and responsibility is truly a great abuse of living free. And it stems from a lack of parenting……………..in many cases by no fault of their own but again, government interference and regulation. Anyone believing the government knows what’s best for our kids needs to revisit the doctrines of Hitler and his Nazi regime. And on the heals of that, Hillary Clinton supports many of the same ideals so be glad she’s no longer in the White House and that we don’t live in New York!

Okay…………….enough soap box for me.

Thank you Stillakid2, the circle shall remain unbroken. As for you Big fish Dude, my implication that someone has their head up somewhere was not directed at you but more so directed at anyone who would question why there would be resistance to such requirements and it was also not meant to be a “personal” attack, let’s say I intended it to be a wake up call to all those who have been decieved by our socialist government.

In wisconsin all you have to do is give them your dnr number if you have it or have it memorized, or your social security number, it is quite the nifty system if you know them because if you go to the right person they can have it done for you in less than 2 minutes. Pretty slick system.

I guess I’m gonna have to stir the pot a little. Are you guys a little paranoid about our government?? I for one think it’s one of the best in the world, not perfect, but I wouldn’t trade considering the options. At least here I have the oppurtunity to make changes to areas of the government I don’t like or agree with.

I’ve never been much of a conspiracy theory believer. As matter of fact, I don’t care if the government is tracking my every move, it’s a pretty simple little life I lead….Hunt, fish and try to keep the wife happy. Most days in that order. I don’t believe giving my SSN to the DNR is going to help the government take those liberties away from me. If I’m wrong, please inform me. I’m always open to learning.

The reason I posed the question was to find out if anyone had hard facts that would help me to “see the light.”

I certainly agree that my life is too mundane for anyone to take assignment to watching my every move. But unless you’ve been innocent, with the law hanging over you and watching your every move, you have no idea what it is I’m talking about. It’s hard to describe well enough for anyone to truly get the feeling realized and understood.

I have no concrete proof of conspiracy at any level, but I know people are being watched (foreign spying). I also know that anything that might stir the public too much is kept under wraps. I have a family member who was formerly in military intelligence. He can tell you things that won’t let you sleep at night. We’re all familiar with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Did you know in ’96 that we were “Defcon 3” with China for over 3 weeks and nobody knew about it?

Conspiracy? Probably not. But it is also true that we’re not being told everything and what we are told isn’t always the truth.

I just choose to live. If I worry about it, it’ll take the life right out of me. SUPER-DOOS AND PRECISION JIGS PLEASE!

Something to be said for the simple pleasures in life. I don’t remember thinking about conspiracy theories when I’m throwing a jig and pig!

So much of our financial identity is linked to our S.S. number, tax I.D., bank accounts, investment portfolios, etc. I’m not touting the conspiracy theory here. I just plainly see this as a bad idea. Especially with the ease of identity theft. I know of someone who is trying to resolve that problem, not easy, their life is upside down.

Sure, the number may not be shown on the license, but do you feel comfortable giving your number out to someone you don’t know at some retail outlet that sells licenses? I sure am not comfortable with this at all. Am I paranoid, maybe. Cautious, yes.

Besides, do you really think someone who is stiffing their kid’s child support, is really concerned about getting a fishing or hunting license legally? And isn’t there a program in place that upon employment their wages are garnished? If not, use and enforce the requirements and programs already in place, and stop dreaming up new ways to waste everyone’s time energy and resources. This new program will do very little to recoup the funds due to the unfunded children.

$350 million in grants will not be given to Minnesota if this is not passed. Now, doesn’t that sound like a form of extortion?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Identity theft is only one of the problems associated with using your SSN for ID purposes.

The biggest problem is that it is illegal on its face. When SS was implemented, there was a significant opposition movement to using identification numbers. Due to stalwart opposition to a national identification number, the law specifically forbids use of your SSN for purposes of identification outside of the tax and SS system.

My annoyance is the use of extortion tactics on the part of the fedgov to coerce the states in areas where the feds explicitly have no authority. This year there have been several initiatives instigated by the threatened loss of highway funding. Now, I might believe that the interstate commerce clause gives the feds the authority to regulate highway funding, but someone would have to point out article and section before I would believe that they can set uniform standards for drunk driving, speed limits, child support enforcement, drug penalties, drinking age, and the list goes on and on.

State’s rights are steadily being boiled down to choosing a state motto, a state bird, maybe a tree, and choosing the design of the state flag – so long as it does not include a symbol of your history like the stars & bars or the St Andrew’s Cross.

Now before someone goes on a rant about how unpatriotic that is, let me say this: Even if it were the case that love for country and love for government were one in the same (it is not), ours in These United States is the best on Earth. It is even better when pushed to abide by its constitutional limits, and that is the end to which I strive. The men and women currently in the Persian gulf region represent the best of America; few people could be said to surpass my appreciation for what they are doing as I type this, God bless them and bring them home safely.

On edit: There is one more important thing which people should look into, and it’s called the Father’s Rights movement. Currently in something along the lines of 99% of child custody cases, the mother is awarded custody regardless of the circumstance. If you are a father and want to see your kids, you have to fight for it. Mom want’s to move? You find a new job and follow if you love your kids. There is no balance in the system.

The thing is that, even if you don’t give them your social security number, they have it when you give them your name, or dnr number. They always have that on file. What is the point in being scared about being watched, unless you have a reason to be scared for.

Quote:

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What is the point in being scared about being watched, unless you have a reason to be scared for.

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Can we install a webcam in your house?

I have a feeling that the two hundred million people who were killed by their government during the 20th century would respectfully disagree. Even if “it could never happen here,” why head down a road that makes it feasible?

Gianni, I always like to read your posts, but I have a question about the previous one? The 200 million killed, did they use their SSA number to identify them prior to eliminating them. It just doesn’t quite seem like big brother with a camera in my house. I am not trying to stir up trouble, just curious about your logic. Did someone else use your computer to submit this in your name? LOL

Now I’m really confused. If the DNR already has my S.S. Number, then why in the heck are they going to ask me for it when I buy a new license?

Isn’t our Social Security Numbers used for the sole purpose for taxes and of attaining Social Security upon retirement???

Now, what does my retirement, and taxes I pay on my investments have anything to do with a fishing license? Nothing. Will it help collect fusnds for deadbeat parents? Not likely. Will it keep these deadbeats from fishing and hunting? Not likely. So then, what is the point?

Scared, no. I have nothing to hide. I have no children. I just choose to value my freedoms in a free society. If sharing you S.S. # is a good idea, post them here! There isn’t any identity theft going on!

Who says we need Social Security numbers!

http://familyguardian.tzo.com/TaxFreedom/Forms/IRS/IRSForm4029.pdf

Waterfowler, Yes The Republic of the United States of America is the greatest country in the world and our government is great because it is a republican form of government, I just hope it doesn’t become a Democratically controlled Socialist slime pit like France. You see in our Republic (Which the United States of America is), individuals have inherent rights that are guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America, in a democracy (mob rule) only the majority have rights and those are subject to constant change. Little do we realize it but the USA is constantly being attacked by domestic enemies. This SSN requirement is such an attack.

Chitwood46,

“For many, the blurred blue lines of a serial number on a forearm are an indelible image of the Holocaust. The tattoos of the survivors have come to symbolize the utter brutality and of the concentration camps and the attempt of the Nazis to dehumanize their victims. ”

The point of the 200 million is that “Those who aren’t doing anything wrong have nothing to fear” is complete nonsense.

“Social Security” is an American name – other countries have used different systems for identification. Most similar to the American numbering system would have been the German Nazis, who issued ID numbers to ‘undesirables’ for the purpose of tracking them. Those wacky Germans were so particularl and adept in their recordkeeping; at Nuremburg, the evidence was all extremely well organzied, categorized, and indexed – done by the people on trial prior to the end of the war.

When Stalin decided that socialism required elimination of some twenty-million of the ‘educated’ prior to its implementation, he certainly did not go house to house asking people if they qualified for execution. Once again some sytem of tracking the Russian citizenry – certainly the ‘undesirables’ – had been put in place by the czarist government that made the job easy for the Marxists that followed.

Ever wonder how the NICS system works? How do you suppose they identify you when requesting a background check from the FBI? Did you know that immediately after September 11th, Chuck Schumer (schmuck chumer?) introduced a bill to the Senate that would allow the government to use the NICS system to investigate “terrorists”? How long before NRA members qualify for special scrutiny? GOA? JPFO?

A friend of mine in the U.K. was talking about the special license he required to have a shotgun. Inspectors can show up at his house, 24/7/365, even when he’s not home and invade, check that they are ‘safely stored,’ interview his wife, kids, extended family; all without a warrant or probable cause.

Can’t happen here? Guess what happens if Illinois residents allow their FOID card to lapse? There were a rash of cases last fall where homes of people were raided by either Illinois state patrol or Daley’s “special firearms enforcement” squad, all in cooperation with the BATF and FBI. Someone had a gun in their home and let their FOID expire. I don’t know what info you give the state of Illinois when applying for a FOID card, but I’d almost bet that SSN is one of the items.

You don’t have to be afraid of our government to be paranoid about letting your SSN out. What if a foreign intelligence agency decided to collect info on defense contractors? How secure is the Iowa Electronic Licensing System? Do you trust it with bank account numbers? Access codes? Personal information? Your SSN gives up all those things and much, much, more.

I don’t mean to pick on Jeff, but his comment is indicative of a very Hamiltonian view of the relationship between the government and the people; a view that was flatly rejected during the constitutional convention, but resurrected nearly one hundred years lated and ratified by use of force during the War Between the States. Due mostly to the outcome of that conflict, it has become the standard model by which most Americans view their government.

The Jeffersonian view on which our Constitution was based held the exact opposite to be true – a well armed and untrackable populace, under which a government that was doing nothing wrong, had nothing to hide.

No time to proofread now, I’ll come back later and see if this makes any sense or rambles too much to be coherent.

Oh and one more thing, I think the FBI would be able to find you even if you did not give out your ssn. Give it out or not they will find you if they need to

Just a couple of quick things here.

1. You’re issued one at birth and the ability to track begins there. It’s on the foggy side until the child starts working and passes the age of voter registration. Submit it now or later for whatever, it begins at birth.

2. It’s legal to ask for it for this reason alone. If you opt to donate your $1 to lake research, the DNR needs it for their account records and you need it for your deductions. It becomes a tax applicable issue and therefore creates the link to use it for anything else. Think they never used to ask for it? Dig up an old license…………like I did………..and bingo! There it was in blue ink…………….my SSN.

All in all I guess this isn’t a new issue…………..it’s just got more applications attached to it.

Gianni, I meant no harm in my question to you. I was not assualting your credibility at all. If we visited you would be surprised at my previous post. I was merely speculating on your logic a bit and now I am relieved having read your response. A lot more like the Gianni I am accustomed to. For the sake of contemplation, I am a patron member in the NRA and am also dramatically opposed to the excesses of government. I grew up next door to a man, who while participating in WWII, was involved in liberating two of the concentration camps. One being Auschwitz! He had pictures which have been permanently etched into my brain.

One last comment, I just ordered a Missouri fishing license online. The form asked for my SS number and when I entered it the form automatically filled in my name, address, weight, height(from a lisene 5 yesars ago), city, and zip code. You could use the option to fill in a MDC assigned number rather than SS # but I have no doubt it would have done the same thing plus entered my SS # automatically. We are all already digitized I fear.