WI residents got a few things right

….. Man + Man = ……. extinction

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….. Man + Man = ……. extinction

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Correct, if you assume that if gay marraige is allowed than ALL men will automatically want to participate in it. I don’t.

Here’s my 2 bits on gay marrage:First off, I am a christian. I believe the bible IS the word of our creator GOD. I try my best to live by it.(It’s not possible-but I TRY and when I fail I repent). I have 3 children under 8 years old (& 1 on the way). Homosexuality IS A SIN..(see Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Thessalonians 4:1-7, 1 Timothy 8-11 or JUDE(only a page long). We homeschool all our kids due to the liberal views in the public schools and their teachings. If gay marrage is allowed, that means it’s accepted. If it’s accepted, it becomes an OPTION, If it’s an OPTION kids will see no sin or wrong in it and it becomes a choice.As everyone knows-kids dont always make the right choice. There’s a reason only MALE & FEMALE together can create another life. Homosexuality is UNnatural(and please dont respond with the “Brazilian animal study” as it’s not rational to compare humans to beasts-how many deer do you see hunting men). Peolpe may feel sexual urges for the same sex- just as i feel urges to snort a line of cocaine, or go out and get hammered, but I dont act on those urges(anymore). God puts eveyone through trials of different kinds-It’s how you handle them that counts. I sorry if I’ve offended anyone, But first and foremost I will protect and live by the words given to my by our heavenly father.

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….. Man + Man = ……. extinction

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I’m pretty sure that if same sex marriage became legal it doesn’t make it mandatory for a guy to marry another guy, but I could be worng?

It’s also getting hard to stand on the immoral crutch when outstanding citizens like Mark Foley and Ted Haggard keep making the news

note: 95% of the time, I’m as conservative as they come, but this “hollier than though” attitude that just cost the Republicans the majority is getting a little aggitating

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Quote “People need to spend more time worrying about how they lead their own lives and a heck of a lot less time and effort trying to tell others how they should live theirs.”

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You misunderstand. I did not say “don’t care about anything other’s do” nor did I make mention of depriving you of your right to an opinion or to vote for politicians that think and feel the way you do.

I said spend more time worrying about yourself than others and we’ll all be better off. Far too many people want to “make the world a better place” by changing others while letting their own moral position sink into disrepair.

Reference “Pastor” Haggard’s mess this past week for examples of what I’m talking about. Admittedly this is an EXTREME example. But I think it helps carry the point.

First and foremost be the best person you can possibly be. Then worry about the rest of us.

I promise to do the same.

I hope that clarifies things.

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If gay marrage is allowed, that means it’s accepted. If it’s accepted, it becomes an OPTION, If it’s an OPTION kids will see no sin or wrong in it and it becomes a choice.

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Studies show that homosexuality rates have held a rock steady consistent 10% for hundreds of years. Laws don’t make homosexuals. To imply that is inaccurate.

I too am a Christian, at school to be a pastor. I too think the Bible is the word of God given to us as a tool for our living. I do not think it is okay to pull verses out of the Bible as use them as bullets to argue your point. It is important to consider the entire Bible and all the text that is given as well as the context of the text that was going on. Just because one is Christian and reads the Bible doesn’t make them anti-homosexual because I am able to understand our God a God of all creation. You are assuming that God doesn’t accept these people as people of God for the way they were created by God. This isn’t an issue of choice so don’t worry about your kids deciding to become gay, if they are it’s the way they were created. We need to stop being so judgmental like we have a direct line to the mind of God and know what God thinks and doesn’t think. I remember reading something about not noticing the speck in another’s eye while looking past the LOG in your own.

Seriously, if you are that bothered by this because of morality, why no outcry against heteros who live a debauched lifestyle?

I guess I thought this post was ABOUT gay marriage and the death penalty, but that is the typical donkey response Id expect. Wag the dog. Take the attention away from the subject at hand and interject with something irrelevant.

This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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God puts eveyone through trials of different kinds-It’s how you handle them that counts.

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There have always been homosexuals. There will always be homosexuals.

What if how we deal with homosexuality is OUR test from the creator? One of those “trials from the father” that you mentioned. What if we’re being tested to see if we can find a way to neither condone the behavior yet treat the individual with respect and compassion?

I’m pretty sure this isn’t a “what if.”

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I guess I thought this post was ABOUT gay marriage and the death penalty, but that is the typical donkey response Id expect.

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This is the type of name calling and degradation of personalities that will get this post nuked in short order.

Sodom and Gamorrah (spelling?) Could be worse courses of action than making a law.

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This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So your Christian ideals are the same as those who created the Consititution and the Republic in the late 1700’s? That’s a bold assumption.

It appears in even this post, a Christian pastor and multiple Christian posters have different “ideals”, yet all believe in Jesus. But yet yours is the right belief?

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I thought this post was ABOUT gay marriage and the death penalty, but that is the typical donkey response Id expect. Wag the dog. Take the attention away from the subject at hand and interject with something irrelevant.

This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So if I don’t agree with you, than I have to leave “your” country? Geez.
You make the assumption that because I don’t think that we should legislate morality that I am a ‘donkey’. I guess if being a free thinker, and being tolerant of other people makes me a donkey than so be it. I am sorry if I made a comment that wasn’t within your narrow scope of what is accepted on a post about gay marriage. I’ll ask your opinion next time.

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This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So your Christian ideals are the same as those who created the Consititution and the Republic in the late 1700’s? That’s a bold assumption.

It appears in even this post, a Christian pastor and multiple Christian posters have different “ideals”, yet all believe in Jesus. But yet yours is the right belief?

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Do you realize how many wars world wide are being fought over the sentences above me?
Good Lord! We thought the political posts were bad!

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This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So your Christian ideals are the same as those who created the Consititution and the Republic in the late 1700’s? That’s a bold assumption.

It appears in even this post, a Christian pastor and multiple Christian posters have different “ideals”, yet all believe in Jesus. But yet yours is the right belief?

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Do you realize how many wars world wide are being fought over the sentences above me?
Good Lord! We thought the political posts were bad!

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That’s exactly my point. The Country may have been founded on some of the “ideals” of Christianity, but the founding fathers also kept church and state separate for a reason. The government should not be in the business of persecuting people based on their beliefs. It’s when they try and FORCE them on others, we have problems, from arguments all the way to Wars as you say.

I will use the “democrat response” if the donkey thing offended you.
BUT, I gotta say, You just proved my point again. Wag the dog. Did I say you had to leave the country???

I havent said Im perfect, and honestly, far from it. But, if we can create a law to protect, at least, some morality and decency, then I think its our responsibility to do so. Ignoring the problem is not a solution.

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This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So your Christian ideals are the same as those who created the Consititution and the Republic in the late 1700’s? That’s a bold assumption.

It appears in even this post, a Christian pastor and multiple Christian posters have different “ideals”, yet all believe in Jesus. But yet yours is the right belief?

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Do you realize how many wars world wide are being fought over the sentences above me?
Good Lord! We thought the political posts were bad!

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No doubt Chris…Why do ya think I NEVER mention either topic in a bar

“Wag the Dog”. Interesting that you use this as a reason that my post should be ignored, or at least my sentiment is now immaterial to this discussion. You make broad assumptions about my political leanings based on my response to one specific issue.
In a discussion, sometimes you use an example that isn’t directly related to the topic at hand to help prove your point. This is what I did. How should I handle this? Only use examples that directly correspond to our topic?
You said:
“This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that”
I took this to mean that if my ideals didn’t match up with yours, than it wasn’t my country also. IF that isn’t what you meant, than I apologize.

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This country was founded on “my christian ideals” Dont forget that

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So your Christian ideals are the same as those who created the Consititution and the Republic in the late 1700’s? That’s a bold assumption.

It appears in even this post, a Christian pastor and multiple Christian posters have different “ideals”, yet all believe in Jesus. But yet yours is the right belief?

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Do you realize how many wars world wide are being fought over the sentences above me?
Good Lord! We thought the political posts were bad!

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That’s exactly my point. The Country may have been founded on some of the “ideals” of Christianity, but the founding fathers also kept church and state separate for a reason. The government should not be in the business of persecuting people based on their beliefs. It’s when they try and FORCE them on others, we have problems, from arguments all the way to Wars as you say.

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Did you know 24 of the 56? founding fathers were ordained.
Did you know 51+ were members/active in a CHRISTIAN church.
Did you know Lincoln used the word GOD 14 times in his inaugural(?) speech.
Now as far is I can tell, the “Seperation of church and state” mis-interpretation is NOWHERE in the constitution—-Until 1947!

What ever happend to the phrase “common law” which was clearly understood by all years ago?

The “seperation of church and state”, was meant to keep the gov. from forcing 1 form of christianity on everyone. Allowing people to be babtist, Lutherans, ect. NOT TO KEEP CHURCH OUT OF POLOTICS.
Check out http://www.wallbuilders.com, specially any liberals who live and die by the “Seperation” phrase

both of these issues.. Ive been on both sides of them….
somehow now I feel that I alone dont have the wisdom to make such decisions in all cases… or even in one.. I agree with James when he says to worry about how you live your life… I find I cant control anything in this world.. except myself… I find that to live with grace, and wisdom, with malice towards none is NOT an easy thing to do… and to avoid hypocrosy is even harder…..
surely I have not the wisdom to decide if anyone should marry… or even if they should stay together…. nor do I have the wisdom to sentence them to death…. my vote was for me alone…. and not meant to persuade others… I cant and wont tell someone what to think…. and Im neither an R or a D.. I just hope that together we get more things right than we get wrong….. the people of wisconsin have spoken… only time will tell if it was good or bad….

Skhartke,My comments have come off as directed towards you. They were meant to be directed to Dem’s in general. The problem I had with what you were saying is that it sounds alot like every argument put forward by a Dem. Rather then comment on the issue at hand, they use a slight of hand approach. Does anyone know anything about the candidate who won Foleys old seat?? I rather doubt it. They won not because of who they were, but because they could say that Foley was worse than them. Democrats have a long history of “justifying” immorality. Foley was a republican, but more so, a grade A piece of &^%$. But, can you name 1 dem. candidate who didnt mention his name in their campaign??
I think I came off rather strong in response to your posts. Your comments are, no doubt, as welcome as mine, and my intention was never to imply the opposite. These debates are the stronghold of our democracy and I’m proud that we can hold them.
I dont have to agree with, but respect your opinion as well. Mebbe we’ll hafta down a couple brews sometime and find our common grounds as well.

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Did you know 24 of the 56? founding fathers were ordained.
Did you know 51+ were members/active in a CHRISTIAN church.
Did you know Lincoln used the word GOD 14 times in his inaugural(?) speech.
Now as far is I can tell, the “Seperation of church and state” mis-interpretation is NOWHERE in the constitution—-Until 1947!

What ever happend to the phrase “common law” which was clearly understood by all years ago?

The “seperation of church and state”, was meant to keep the gov. from forcing 1 form of christianity on everyone. Allowing people to be babtist, Lutherans, ect. NOT TO KEEP CHURCH OUT OF POLOTICS.
Check out http://www.wallbuilders.com, specially any liberals who live and die by the “Seperation” phrase

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I never said we have to keep God out of government, only that we shouldn’t persecute people based on religion using government as a tool of that persecution.

I don’t have the arrogance to propose to know how God judges on the actions of others. Apparently, others do. Many Christian scholars, priests, pastors, etc. have been on opposite sides of this issue, yet somehow there is a one and only set of “Christian Ideals” we should be following? The arrogance of some is mind boggling to me. As is the use of Bible passages that fit the current purpose, while ignoring those that don’t fit.

As for the link provided, it’s nice, but it may be a bit biased. I hear some think hunting is bad and immoral. I think they may be a bit biased though. Here’s the link http://www.peta.org

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If gay marrage is allowed, that means it’s accepted. If it’s accepted, it becomes an OPTION, If it’s an OPTION kids will see no sin or wrong in it and it becomes a choice.

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Studies show that homosexuality rates have held a rock steady consistent 10% for hundreds of years. Laws don’t make homosexuals. To imply that is inaccurate.

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Studies also show if kids are around people who smoke they are more likely to smoke themselves.

Kid are easily influenced.

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Skhartke,My comments have come off as directed towards you. They were meant to be directed to Dem’s in general. The problem I had with what you were saying is that it sounds alot like every argument put forward by a Dem. Rather then comment on the issue at hand, they use a slight of hand approach. Does anyone know anything about the candidate who won Foleys old seat?? I rather doubt it. They won not because of who they were, but because they could say that Foley was worse than them. Democrats have a long history of “justifying” immorality. Foley was a republican, but more so, a grade A piece of &^%$. But, can you name 1 dem. candidate who didnt mention his name in their campaign??
I think I came off rather strong in response to your posts. Your comments are, no doubt, as welcome as mine, and my intention was never to imply the opposite. These debates are the stronghold of our democracy and I’m proud that we can hold them.
I dont have to agree with, but respect your opinion as well. Mebbe we’ll hafta down a couple brews sometime and find our common grounds as well.

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Good post Vikefan!!

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If gay marrage is allowed, that means it’s accepted. If it’s accepted, it becomes an OPTION, If it’s an OPTION kids will see no sin or wrong in it and it becomes a choice.

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Studies show that homosexuality rates have held a rock steady consistent 10% for hundreds of years. Laws don’t make homosexuals. To imply that is inaccurate.

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Studies also show if kids are around people who smoke they are more likely to smoke themselves.

Kid are easily influenced.

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Actually that is incorrect when referencing sexual patterns of children in homes with one of more homosexual parent. Studies show that there is NO increase in the rate of homosexuality.

I used to go out with a girl named Sandy. Her mom was a lesbian who lived with her girlfiend/partner, whatever. After we broke up she ended up going lesbo also. I believe if the influence is there, its more likely. I suppose it mighta had something to do with me, though LOL

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I dont have to agree with, but respect your opinion as well. Mebbe we’ll hafta down a couple brews sometime and find our common grounds as well.

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Name the time place! I agree that our difference are what make this country great, but so is tolerance of those differences.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this particular issue though!

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I believe if the influence is there, its more likely. I suppose it mighta had something to do with me, though LOL

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Well there are a blizzard of studies out there on this subject. Many are done on rediculously small study groups, I just read one that had 22 kids in one control group, 15 in another, or done by religious leaning groups that are trying to “prove” a position.

However, if you do some digging you can find some well done studies on large samples that show little to no change in the rate of homosexuality. They are worth the time and effort.

I did my best to stay out of this post but I can’t help it.

I too agree with if two men want to bed together go ahead and have your fun. God has declared that a sin and He will be the final judge. I have sinned many times and still am daily, I too will be judged. However………..

Most of the stink about this is brought up by a very small percentage of the population, but yet gets a boatlaod of press because the press is typically out of the mainstream (what the local hard hat wearing, gun owner, family guy thinks and believes). I for one do not want my kids to be taught in school that being gay is an ok “choice” and to “go ahead and do what feels good”. I do not want the “gay theatre group” coming to town to teach my first grader about “good touching and bad touching”. This happens daily at schools everywhere. This is what is called a SLIPPERY SLOPE ISSUE. If you allow gay marriage you are actually supporting it and you will be required to change your values and beliefs to accomodate that lifestyle. Are you ready for that? Is this where you want our country to go? I don’t.

What if we ban semi-auto guns because you really don’t need one to go hunting with. SLIPPERY SLOPE

What if we ban pickups because they use a lot of gas and we really don’t need them. SLIPPERY SLOPE

What if we quit slaugtering animals for meat because we can live on veggies? SLIPPERY SLOPE

These are all things that a select, small group of people would like to do to change your lifestyle. Where does it stop once the ball starts rolling? What are you willing to give up so someone else is more comfortable with their choices?

Be gay if you want to, cheat on your wife if you want to, be a druggy if you want to—- just don’t expect me to accomodate and change my life because you make a different choice.

Thank you Troy for righting the ship back to the course I intended with this post.

When I was in the Navy staioned at Great Lakes NTC My kids went to a public school in N Chicago. One day my daughter brought home a permission slip to attned “alternative family values” class. Many of my freinds and neighbors kids also brought home the same slip. So we wanted to know exactly what “alternative family values” meant. The school would not come out and admit it until 30 of us parents showed up at the principles office one day. He fina;;y admitted it meant that they were gonna teach the kids that they should not belittle or chastise kids with two daddys or two mommys, that their family is as normal as anyone elses. But that they needed the parents permission for the children to attend. Those that were not going to be given permission to attend would have to miss school that day as the school had not planned for such opposition. So we took it to the Superintendant. Needless to say, they had to cancle the class because no one would sign.
You wanna bed down with your buddy Phil or shack up with your “partner” Sally, thats your buisness. Just don’t expect me to condone teaching it in school and waste my tax money on a “class” about it. Whats next, beastiality and NAMBLA?