Quote:
The army is taking almost anyone at this point. They have increased the age limit, criminal records are fine, no high schoold degree….
So this was incorrect? They are not looking to older people, there was only a slight increase in waivers for criminal records and you still need a high school degree?
Also, what did you mean by the military being gutted?
Can I ask a question that nobody ever answers????
Why isn’t there an uproar to pull our troops out of South Korea?
We still have troops occupying German and Japan soil from WWII also. Where is the uproar to bring them home.
I promise you, that there are soldiers dying every day on those 3 countries. No, they are not combat related. But they are training related, or they are accidents while off duty.
Take the politics out of the spin on the Iraq war and help me find an answer, as to why people want our troops pulled out of Iraq, yet it was/still is OK for us to still occupy Germany, Japan, and South Korea (all wars that ended over 50 years ago), while this war technically only ended 2 years ago?
I’ll even throw out another bone.
I dare anyone to do a true search (legitimate government website) and display how many soldiers died in the year of 2001 (prior to Iraq war) that were NOT combat related.
Soldiers who died either in training or off duty.
I’ll state off duty, because most soldier deaths “off duty” are due to an activity that is not allowed while in a combat scenario.
Found this on accidental on and off duty prior to 2001.
I meant “gutted” as in numbers are down and recruiting is down. Not to mention that being “in the military”, because of the Iraq war (right or wrong), is making the option of going into the military look very unattractive.
435 for the year 2000.
805 for the year of 1991.
Now, we need to find and throw in the suicides and the homicides. That is not considered accidental deaths.
Gary.
Great point. And I think it has to do with what Iraq has become. If things had gone as planned (whatever that plan was), people would not be as outraged if we had left some troops behind if they were left there only to oversee and to keep the peace. Much like the places you mentioned. And in a lot of those places we have troops on US bases. That’s a big diffence than driving down the streets of Bagdad hoping to God you don’t hit an IED.
I here so much “stay the course” and “when the Iraqi’s stand up, we’ll stand down”.
First, what course? Our troops DESERVE to know what the objective is and when they have completed it.
Second, as long as we’re there, they will never stand up.
Quote:
Gary.
Second, as long as we’re there, they will never stand up.
I hear what you’re saying Vida, but Germany and Japan were very quick to move to take their country back and not let us control them for long.
South Korea appears to enjoy having us around.
The true difference between those countries and Iraq is that we had the enemy at bay or we had an imaginary line that held them in place.
Unfortunately, we are dealing with terrorist and rebels in Iraq. It has been stated the worse fighting has been trying to get a stronghold on Al-Quida, in the outskirts of Baghdad.
Staying the course means not to walk away, as we did in Vietnam, while trying to get the South Vietnamese to take over their own battle/war. We have to finish the job. Like I said, Germany took 50 years.
Another way to look at it is this:
We were in a cold war with USSR for 50 years. The death toll due to military, “on duty” accidents during those 50 years, while “fighting” the communist would squash what we have seen thus far in Iraq.
We could have just “walked away” and turned our cheek from the communist and there wouldn’t have been the deaths during those 50 years, because we wouldn’t have had that many soldiers during that time frame.
What would have happened if we wouldn’t have “stayed the course” during the 50 year cold war and pulled out?
And THAT was an enemy that was “at bay”, behind a “line”!
A true “picture” number of the military death toll in Iraq should be of those who are military, not DOD contractors and they should be “combat related” deaths, not accidents and not a number that includes the DOD contractors.
The accidents happen every year, everywhere. Just because it is Iraq doesn’t mean it only happens there.
Talking politics on a fishing board makes as much sense as talking fishing on a political board.
Dresdad quote: “John Kerry, basically has stated in a speech that the people who have served in Iraq are uneducated losers.”
I read the article attached above, and what he said is that if you don’t get educated you end up in Iraq. That is not the same as an uneducated loser. I would disagree with Kerry’s statement, as I am sure many Military leaders and those who are in the Military Reserves in Iraq have college level educations. However, excluding officers and Reservists, many of the soldiers fighting on the streets come from working class families and do not have college educations. That is factual. Our wealthiest citizens, for the most part do not fight our wars. It is our working class (majority again, there are exceptions). How many Congressmen’s kids are in Iraq? (I think it is 2 or 3). Why are George Bush’s daughters not there? Answer: Because they are in college, and their dad does not want them “in harms way.” I come from a farming/working class family, my dad was Army, both grandfathers Army/Marines. I respect the men and women of the armed services and pray for their safe return. I am not in favor of this war, but I am in favor of a strong armed forces to protect our legitimate interests (North Korea would be one example of a place we need a strong Military; fighting terror in Afghanistan another). I am a Democrat, although I have voted Rebulican for George B the first, Tommy Thomson, and others. If caring about God, Family, public education, clean water for fishing, public hunting land, and caring about your neighbor and helping those who need a hand make you a Liberal Democrat, then I guess that is what I am. It’s time to get our country moving forward again, that means politically cleaning house. Unfortunately, there is no clear answer for me saying all Demoracts are good and all Republicans are bad. Some are good, some are bad, and most are serving their own self interest while doing what they think is best for our country. In my mind though, the Republicans have increased the debt to 9 Billion, messed up foriegn and domestic policy for the most part, and have many memebers corrupt and running unchecked (Delay, Neigh, Abramhoff, Foley, etc). We need a change, and I am voting Democrate (except in a few cases).
Signed, Kelly Wendlandt
The Bladepuller, thats what makes this place great. Yes, you can talk fishing (wish there was more of it and less politics right now) but this board also has so much more to offer.
Topics range from fishing to hunting to sports to vehicles to how to trap mice & yes, even politics. Hang in there another week and we can say goodbye to this for another 2 years !!! 
See you at MUGGS sometime !!! 
big g 
Well said Eyehunter.
He was a traitor after Vietnam and is still one today.
He is a disgrace to his state, his office and this country.
Quote:
I could have been just about any of the liberal democrats who said this seeing how they are pretty much anti-military. Kerry, Pelosi, Harkin, Dean, Clinton, it doesn’t matter. They will all tell you that they support our troops but in reality they see our troops as second class citizens.
It’s not just our military that the liberals think are second class citizens. It’s anyone that doesn’t agree with there point of view. There’s a reason there are “red” and “blue” states. We are “rednecks”, who live in flyover states, and they are “bluebloods” who have the attitude that “we” can not survive without big government taking us by the hand and leading us through life.
Well written post, Kelly. I think your points are factual and reflect what has historically always been true. The wealthy don’t occupy the front line.
Quote:
We need a change, and I am voting Democrat
What troubles me most about this election season more than anything is this. When pinned down, I can never get an answer to the question. What will the Dems do differently? From pollsters on the phone. Cronies on the street corner handing out literature. CANDIDTATES at my door. E-mails to every candidates’ office. I still have not got one single response. Just “We need a change”. CHANGE WHAT!
The Dem need to understand that the Republicans are not war mongers. We don’t want the damn war any more than the Dems. Now the Dems just campaign on the “We are for change” platform but offer absolutely no plan. Please anyone of you reading this. Show me a plan put together by the left that does not leave this country open to more innocent civilians being murdered here in the US. Please anyone?
I have a strong feeling this seeminly simple request will go un-answered as did my Haliburton question. It is very hard for most Dems to face reality. << Yes, that was a suttle jab, but I want an answer!
-J.
every situation is unique… why are people clamoring to get our people out of Iraq? is this a trick question? when soldiers are dying because of enemy action then its always highly visible…. numbers.. what do numbers mean anyway? I just talked to a son-in-law who JUST returned from his 2nd tour in Iraq.. stationed in one of the hottest zones there… Baghdad.. near Sadr City.. he is NOT reupping.. they offered a 20,000 bonus.. he said he didnt care if it was 10,000,000…. he thought they needed to stay there… but he said it was a mess… with no end in sight.. and figured he had done his part with 2 tours…. and didnt like the fact that the troups were treated as if they were just numbers… we lost 2 here.. 4 there…. the thought of acceptable losses is NOT very acceptable to the friends of those losses…. 2 of his friends were captured, tortured and beheaded… simply because their officer forgot they were out there and left them on station for 32 hours without backup or recall….. these things are hard to accept….. so why are people clamoring for withdrawl? they are losing sons and daughters… sometimes for no acceptable reason…. sure they gave their life for what they believed in… but if it was because someone messed up… its really hard to accept….. and there are a lot of messes over there.. something that we who are NOT there and NEVER have been and NEVER will be cant really understand…. there is no easy solution… no easy answer…. I feel for those who are there… and for those who love them who are here…. and I wonder how it will all end.. I wonder what is the best thing to do…. its beyond me to know…. its probably beyond anyone…. there is much tragedy over there… for us.. and for the Iraqi people…. ethicially we owe them and ourselves the honor of coming up with the best solution for all sides… if only we can decide just what that solution is…. meanwhile.. politics plows on like it always does.. pointing to this as black.. and that as white… when in reality there seems to be only gray…..
Well said RiverEyes. I don’t think Jon will get an answer, from Democrats, Republicans or Independents. If we knew how to get it over with and done, it would have been done long ago. It’s hard to fight an enemy, that you don’t even know what to look for. When I was at Ripley 2 weeks ago, we drove by a trainging ground, and they had mock buildings and kids and adults and old people set up along the road, some were waving, some were doing god knows what. Anyways, my buddy says, what is that suppose to be. I then explained to him, they are training to fight an enemy that could be any one of these manicans, from the kid to the middle aged woman. He was like “good luck with that “. This is the reality over there. the big question is, how do we get out, but I think the bigger question is “how did we get into this” ? You cannot blame it on Bush or Republicans, they acted on the flawed information and intelligence they were given, when they voted for the war, right along with the Democrats. Again, I don’t think the Democrats can say how this can end, without anymore US lives lost here or abroad, but americans would like to see some kind of a plan or progress. I can’t help but think there are alot of soldiers over there, who feel the way your son inlaw does, RiverEyes. I know when I was in the military, we always had a mission or a target. It probably is a little tough, when you don’t know what it is.
big g
well Jon.. your not going to get an answer.. this is politics.. the Rs use the same tactics as the Ds…. they just wait and HOPE that public disastisfaction rises to a certain point that it galvanizes the public for a change… this has happened…. there is a fairly large number of unhappy people out there… it was the Rs Karl Rove who used polarizing tactics for the last election.. it worked to get the president re-elected… but it set up a group of people that were very upset with the result of the LAST election… now on top of that base of STILL unhappy people… other factors have arisen to make people unhappy and to cause defection from the Ranks of those who voted R last time… this has set up the potential for what political scientists refer to as a “wave”… which is where general disastisfaction is high enough that there is a reaction against the controlling party.. in this case the Rs… this causes an exceptional amount of people to vote AGAINST the controlling party…. soooooo All the Ds HAVE to do is campaign saying they stand for “change”… when you have a group of unhappy people.. and what they WANT is change… presto…. no one HAS to define just WHAT change is…. dont worry.. the Rs use this VERY same tactic… and believe me.. you will see it in the future if the Ds take over.. because at some point there will be a bunch of unhappy people again you can bet on it the pendulum swings and both parties are its slaves this is WHY balance is a natural phenomenum…
Quote:
I don’t think Jon will get an answer, from Democrats, Republicans or Independents. If we knew how to get it over with and done, it would have been done long ago.
I’m not asking for the answer. I’m asking for the plan. If you say you are going to change course, where are you going? The Republicans have stated their plan. We will not cut and run. We will turn Iraq over to the Iraqi government as soon as possible. That plan is going to take longer than we thought.
Consider the cut and run. Iraq citizens fall under radical Islamic rule. An unstable Middle East at war with each other. Five to ten more years of terrorist attacks on US soil before we are forced go in and finish the job? This is not even a “Worst case scenario”. Please a plan.
I would like to remind everyone that these terrorists have stated many times over. They want to destroy America, our economy and kill every last one of ya-all! Not to mention they are supported by rouge governments like Iran. Scary sticht here. We need a serious response. No time to be “joking around” as Mr Kerry has claimed he was doing during the above speech.
J.
First of all I am an American. You can call me Liberal or Left or something else, but I am American and I care about this country as much as any GOPer. I am interested in what is best for our country and my children. From that perspective, my opionions are selfish. Here are changes Democrats will hopefully bring:
Changes: 1. Place more dollars and energy into fighting radical religous and other groups that hate the US. In order to do this we first need to identify the enemy. This is not Iraq. There are some of these people in Iraq, but the threat is not Iraq. Iraq is a country with defined borders. The people who are trying to kill us are from many countries and there common denomintor is their hatred of the US-not a geographical boundry. If responding to the terrorist threat could be accomplished by invading one country this war would be easy. We would invade Saudi Arabi and be done with it (that’s were most of the 9/11 terrorists came from; right: ). We accomplish identifying the enemy in this war by spending money on spies on the streets in foreign nations, and creating and tracking technology data repositories that are shared at a federal, state and county level. The current GOP has misdirected billions of dollars into a war with Iraq and reduced spending for FBI and CIA agents operating as intelligence gatherers in other counties. We need better intelligence and this administion has taken its eye off the ball.
2. Be proactive with how great our country is. This war is a war of ideals, ideas and PR. You may hate to hear that-but as a country we need to do a better job showing the world what a great place the US is (we all know it, the rest of the world does not.) Muslims? Welcome. Christians? Welcome. Athiests? Welcome (and I hope you find Jesus). We need to start acting like leaders of the free world again. This bullcrap with water boarding, and trying to gain information through torture? THat is old Soviet Union Communism stuff. We are the Free, Proud and Great, and our for-fathers fought to create a country where the government COULD NOT do that to people. What’s the big deal to throw a couple towel heads in jail without a trial of any sort (on evidence or infomation gained threw torture)? The big deal is we are AMERICAN. We are supposed to lead EVEN IN TOUGH TIMES.
3. Balance the budget. NON-Military spending is up 44% since Bush got into office. I am from the midwest. We don’t spend money we don’t have.
4. Allow stem-cell and all other bio-medical research. For the most part, let the scientists handle science, not politicians.
5. Honor the constitution (see points above). The folks who started this great country were really smart. This document is an incredible lasting document for a free society. It may be painful to follow at times, but in the long run, it is why we are the biggest and best country to ever be.
PS: No amendments to this great document relating to marriage or anything else thanks. You have to be kidding me.
Tight Lines!
Kelly
Quote:
Here are changes Democrats will hopefully bring:
Changes:
1. Place more dollars and energy into fighting radical religous and other groups that hate the US.
That is not part of the Democratic Platform.
Quote:
2. Be proactive with how great our country is. This war is a war of ideals, ideas and PR.
Gee, I thought the war was a bit more complicated than that….
Quote:
Balance the budget. NON-Military spending is up 44% since Bush got into office.
Yep, a lot of that “Non-Military” spending is due to Katrina. Oh, wait, Darn. Bush didn’t do anything for the victims of Katrina…. grrrrr.
Quote:
4. Allow stem-cell and all other bio-medical research. For the most part, let the scientists handle science, not politicians.
I pretty much agree with that. Darn, so does President Bush. However, both Bush and myself don’t want the government paying for it. Hhhhhmmmmmmm Interesting huh?
Quote:
Honor the constitution (see points above). The folks who started this great country were really smart.
So are all of the Supreme Court Justices appointed By the President.
-J. 
Easy Jonny boy,
I didn’t know I stuck such a nerve on the Halibeton issue a couple of weeks ago. I didn’t try to leave you without an answer, I just get sick of reading political retoric on a fishing website. Most people base there political decisions on which party represents their issues best. You probably are not going to change anybodys mind at this time. Next week Minnesota will speak, we can argue then
But lets take it to pool 4
We’re cool Joey.
I don’t see much change in the Minnesota races/politics. A fairly liberal democrat will fill the seat vacated by Dayton. By the way can any of you who voted for him honestly think he did a good job?
Pawlenty will squeek out a win. By the way. All the attack adds on Pawlenty are way off. Dems say he cut spending on schools/education and other social programs. Truth is he didn’t cut any. He merely limited the growth to 3-4 % on those programs instead of signing off on the 10-20 % increases the Dems wanted.
-J.
John, you and I see things thru the same glasses. I have the uncanny nack of pissing people off though so I have stopped trying to persuade some to see the light or dissuade others from voting “for change” whatever that is.
I hope Pawlenty stays put, hopefully Doyle will go. The outcome for the other spots don’t look so good.
I actually said they were smart before I said they were stupid….I mean I didn’t mean all soldiers were stupid just some of them….I mean…uuuuuuhhhhhhh…..I meant to say that I am smarter the everyone…..I mean….Teresa can you up my allowance……..uuuuhhhh..what I meant to say is I love our soldiers and hunting, I have one picture to prove it…..I was in Korea….and Vietnam….and I invented the internet…oh crap that was Al….I did not have sex with that woman……..oh crap that was Bill….. 
VOTE THE WAY YOU FEEL IS RIGHT FOR YOU.
Two major reasons I am voting Republican.
1- If the democrats take the house Nancy Pelosi will be the new Speaker. She is a radical as they get, say goodbye to guns, marriage the way it is supposed to be, and our way of life.
2- There are probably going to be two more seats on the Supreme Court opening up, I would like a couple more conservative justices appointed to uphold what I consider the God given constitution and Judeo Christian foundation of this country.
Vote your concience-either way there will be ups and downs for America-just get out and vote!
Quote:
First of all I am an American. You can call me Liberal or Left or something else, but I am American and I care about this country as much as any GOPer. I am interested in what is best for our country and my children. From that perspective, my opionions are selfish. Here are changes Democrats will hopefully bring:
Changes: 1. Place more dollars and energy into fighting radical religous and other groups that hate the US. In order to do this we first need to identify the enemy. This is not Iraq. There are some of these people in Iraq, but the threat is not Iraq. Iraq is a country with defined borders. The people who are trying to kill us are from many countries and there common denomintor is their hatred of the US-not a geographical boundry. If responding to the terrorist threat could be accomplished by invading one country this war would be easy. We would invade Saudi Arabi and be done with it (that’s were most of the 9/11 terrorists came from; right: ). We accomplish identifying the enemy in this war by spending money on spies on the streets in foreign nations, and creating and tracking technology data repositories that are shared at a federal, state and county level. The current GOP has misdirected billions of dollars into a war with Iraq and reduced spending for FBI and CIA agents operating as intelligence gatherers in other counties. We need better intelligence and this administion has taken its eye off the ball.
2. Be proactive with how great our country is. This war is a war of ideals, ideas and PR. You may hate to hear that-but as a country we need to do a better job showing the world what a great place the US is (we all know it, the rest of the world does not.) Muslims? Welcome. Christians? Welcome. Athiests? Welcome (and I hope you find Jesus). We need to start acting like leaders of the free world again. This bullcrap with water boarding, and trying to gain information through torture? THat is old Soviet Union Communism stuff. We are the Free, Proud and Great, and our for-fathers fought to create a country where the government COULD NOT do that to people. What’s the big deal to throw a couple towel heads in jail without a trial of any sort (on evidence or infomation gained threw torture)? The big deal is we are AMERICAN. We are supposed to lead EVEN IN TOUGH TIMES.3. Balance the budget. NON-Military spending is up 44% since Bush got into office. I am from the midwest. We don’t spend money we don’t have.
4. Allow stem-cell and all other bio-medical research. For the most part, let the scientists handle science, not politicians.
5. Honor the constitution (see points above). The folks who started this great country were really smart. This document is an incredible lasting document for a free society. It may be painful to follow at times, but in the long run, it is why we are the biggest and best country to ever be.PS: No amendments to this great document relating to marriage or anything else thanks. You have to be kidding me.
Tight Lines!
Kelly
Wow- Allow stem cell research? It is allowed 100%, We just don’t let the federal government pay for it. Just like they shouldn’t pay for abortions.
Wow- No amendments concerning marriage? I hope you don’t mean marriage should be opened up to man/man-woman/woman-dog/monkey/man. The problenm is the unelected judges that will do what they can to make laws, that is why we need an ammendment to clarify for them the peoples choices.
Athiests? Welcome (and I hope you find Jesus). I hope you find Jesus? Hmmmm- Why would anyone vote for a party that backs policies that are directly in conflict with the Bible? (The GOP ain’t perfect either) abortion, gay marriage, cloning, etc…….. 
I gotta stop- sorry for the soapbox.
Where does the “Bible” come in on how we should vote? I for one have never read that book and more than likely, never will.
As far as gay marriage? I for one am a serious homophobe, but, as long as they don’t interfere with my life, who am I to judge their lifestyle?
Sorry, but that really rubs me raw when people start preaching the gospel to others Show me verifyable facts of a God and I may change my views, but not likely 
I don’t think the Bible has anything to do with the way anyone votes. The Bible certainly has a lot to do with the foundation of this country. You know, “In God We Trust” and all that stuff. God pops up a lot in a lot of the founders writings. Biblical teachings including pretty much all of those ten commandments figure in to much of the Constitution. Kinda hard to split those things out, whether one believes in a God or not.
Quote:
As far as gay marriage? I for one am a serious homophobe, but, as long as they don’t interfere with my life, who am I to judge their lifestyle?
You are not being asked to judge the lifestyle. You are being asked if you agree with the definition of marriage. Kinda relates back to that old book that clearly defines what a marriage is. Union between a man and a woman. Conducted during a religious ceremony and recognized by civil law. Not a whole lot of gray area there.
Now, as a society. Do we want to allow people to set up unions under some new law? That is really the root of the question and the one every body should be considering. I really don’t want to call it marriage. That does not mean I’m against civil unions under state law. Doesn’t mean I’m a homophobe. I just don’t think this is an issue to be dealt with at the Federal level.
Again, we are referring back to a book that has no concrete evidence to back up what is written. Since there is no proof that “God” wrote this, I can’t see believing a word of it.
If 2 people of same sex want to get married, so be it. Times have changed since the Constitution was written. That stuff is old and outdated and will likely have many changes in the future.
What you or other’s believe doesn’t make what I believe wrong or right or vice versa.
I know this is the general discussion forum. I know you guys are all big boys and can make your own decisions. I know you don’t need some joker like me coming in here and telling you what you can and can’t discuss. But I am going to make an effort to get us back to talking about fishing, hunting, sport, just about anything other than politics. The trouble with discussing politics here is that it only seems to divide our group. It’s only going to create animosity and resentment. That’s not why I joined IDA years ago, and it’s not why I spend countless hours of my personal time helping James and the gang keep this site moving forward. I found IDA was a place to come and visit with others about something I love. I always felt good here and I’ve learned more than I ever imagined. I really hate seeing the bickering back and forth between my fellow IDAers, people I consider friends. It’s really been bothering me lately.
I am asking that we keep the politics off the board unless it has to do with fishing or the outdoors in general. There are plenty of places to discuss politics. Maybe someone here can start a political forum and invite anyone who wants to participate to join.
In short time we will be announcing the details of the 2007 IDA Winter Get-Together at Hunter’s Point. I hope to see ALL of you there, so we can share fish stories and maybe a glass of suds or two.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
