Concrete Repair

O.K. you concrete guys, got a couple questions for ya! First I’ll fill you in a little on the problems. I’m buying a new home and it has a few problems related to water. The front step is in great condition other than it is being undermined and beginning to sag from water running off the garage roof. Also, the driveway is asphalt, but there is a 2′ wide apron immediately infront of the garage opening that is also sinking due to water. It also is in great shape (no cracks). My question is, is it cheaper to mud-jack back to level or tear out the step and apron and re-pour the concrete??? I would sub all of the work. Who even does mud-jacking, who would I call?

Now, once this gets fixed, I want to prevent it from happening again. I plan to install gutters, which should help with the steps, but I need some way to divert water running down the drive from settling on the apron again. My thoughts are to sawcut the asphalt and install a “subsurface gutter”, for lack of a better word, that has the steel grates that allow water to go into and vehicles to drive over….not sure what they’re called or if I’ve explained them well enough, but just curious if I could do that myself, where I’d buy the grates, and roughly how much I’d be looking at to pay somebody else to do it while I go fishing. Hope somebody has the answers, Thanks if you do.

Personally, if the apron is in good shape, I would mud jack it instead of tearing it out. You should be able to find someone in your area by looking through the Yellow Pages. As far as the steps go, I think you are going to have to tear them out and redo them. But first, you need to get the water problem fixed first
The gutter system you are considering would work fine. You could also run drain tile from the gutter downspouts along the driveway out to the street or your lawn. But, this will still mean you have to cut the asphalt So the gutter would probably be your best option. I would check with bigger stores like Menard’s, Home Depot, or Lowe’s. If they do not carry it, they might be able to refer you to someone who does handle that. hope this helps a little

where is the home at?

Zimmerman, Mn.

This is just my 2 cents and from past experience, but mud jacking will look ok for a short time but it’s not a long term way to fix your problem. Tear it out and start over. Get proper drainage and you should be good to go.

Drill in a few pieces of rebar into the garage floor or core filled block foundation. This helps tremendously. Mud Jacking commonly creates voids underneathe and also is difficult to raise in the correct manner. Once its jacked up,…thers no way to bring it back down. Start over,….because your initial settling is over.

THE REASON THAT THIS CONCRETE IS SINKING IS BECAUSE YOU ARE WASHING THE SOIL OUT FROM UNDER THE CONCRETE TO COMPLETLY FIX THIS PROBLEM I WOULD SUGGEST TO, REMOVE THE CONCRETE AND REPAIR THE FOUDATION UNDERNEATH WITH SOME GOOD GRAVEL OR OPEN GRADED ROCK AND DRAIN TILE, TO GET THE AREA TO DRAIN BUT STILL HAVE GOOD SUPPORT, THAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO AND WOULD CURE THE PROBLEM. THEN LOOK AT GETTING THE SURFACE WATER TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE WOULD HELP ALSO.

I FORGOT TO MENTION IF YOU CAN MOVE THE CONCRETE AND IT’S IN GOOD SHAPE YOU CAN REPAIR AND REPLACE, MIGHT WORK BUT YOU NEED SOME EQUIPMENT, STEPS VERY HEAVY, APRON MAYBE NOT OR YOU COULD SAW INTO PIECES ECT ? MUD JACKING WOULD BE A BAND AID AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

The settling may or may not be over If you are in heavy soil, the ground underneath may never be solid (clay is the worst). Matt’s tip on drilling holes into the garage floor and putting rebar in the holes is a good way to go, if you decide to tear out and redo. We “pin” just about everything on concrete we pour on top of a clay base. Putting down rock or gravel on top of heavy soil helps a little, but not much. The only way it is truely effective is to actually dig the clay out at least 2 feet and then fill with gravel and then sand. If you were to put the gravel right on top of the clay, all it will do is push into the clay and the clay will actually come to the top
The concrete may already be hollow underneath and mud jacking will bring it back up. But, you would also need to weigh the cost of mud jacking vs. replacing. If they are even remotely close, go with the replacing. I just did a tear out this morning of a sidewalk and part of a driveway. Clay base and very saturated We dug the clay out and did what I mentioned above. I guarantee it will stay now

I am with Watson that it really depends on your subgrade- clay is definitely the worst. I have been having my own fun with clay lately digging the footings for my deck….

But you should be able to tear the apron out, get a reasonably solid base down, pin/dowel into your existing slab and driveway, and repour the apron. The subsurface gutter of which you speak is called channel drain, and it is a product you can get through a contractor supply store, but will cost about $50/running foot for materials. Here’s a link to check out: http://www.strongwell.com/PolymerConcrete/PolycastProducts.htm.

If you were to tear out and replace, you could “relatively” easily add the drain, but you need to either run the outlet into drain tile or daylight it somewhere. Since I am not at the site, I can’t tell you what will work.

As far as the steps- again it depends on your subgrade. As long as they are not a structural part of the house, you could hammer them out and, if necessary sink pilings through the clay (if it exists)that would bear the weight of the steps. If they are integral to the house/foundations, you may have serious problems.

Not to trash anyone specifically, but unfortunately there are contractors out there who are throwing foundations up as fast as they can, and not really doing a proper job. What I mean by that is that, especially in our climate, your concrete (and foundation), is only as good as it’s base.

My best advice would be to go call a few concrete contractors and have them come take a look and get a few opinions. If you like, shoot me a pm and I’ll give you some names, I just would prefer not to do it “publicly”.

Greg-I will definitely agree with you on some contractor’s. There are times when my regular job boss does some pretty crappy things just to make a buck I know on my side jobs, that isn’t tolerated. WHy do a job wrong just to have to come back and replace it later ?

Greg716,

Thanks a million! That is exactly the product I had in mind. Do you know if it’s available at any of the big home stores, like Home Depot?

Everyone else, thank you too! Lots of good advice, I appreciate all the help. When I actually move in I’ll post some pics of the problem areas before and after.

I don’t think it is available at any big box retail outlets, it’s a pretty “contractor-grade” item. It is actaully a commercial type system that is suitable for residentail use. We have had instances where guys have broken a piece before it has been installed and have had to have replacement shipped in from the factory because no one else around has had any, so I doubt you’ll find it at a “home center”. Although they may have something similar that would be rated for residential/pneumatic wheel traffic. I would stay away from any of the pool deck drain type products that you might find, I don’t think they would hold up. I work at Cemstone Contractor Supply in Eagan, and we have some of it in stock. If we didn’t have enough length for you, we also have access to a similar product made by Zurn. The installation of the Zurn is a little simpler, and the produst is easier to get, but it is a little more expensive. Here’s a link of to the Zurn product, the line we carry is Z886 Perma Trench. http://www.zurn.com/pages/catalog.asp?
ProductGroupID=62&OperationID=6#p1433
If you give me an idea of the footage you need to cover in front of the garage, I can shoot you a rough price on the two systems.
Greg

Mike-
It sure is frustrating, isn’t it? I bet I get 15-20 calls per week having to do with someone really getting hosed by a so-called professional. It sure makes those of us who try to be honest and do a good job have to work that much harder to sell quality at a legitimate price. Like my old buddy Mark taught me, it only takes a little more to go first class.
PS- I still HATE clay! I have been digging footings and mixing mud in a buggy for three days after 11 hours of work, and I am only half done!
Greg