Gas Prices

I see here in the metero the price of gas just hit $2.95. But e85 is $2.25, has anyone used it my truck can but I’ve never used it. So I’m going to fill up with it today & I’ll let you know how it goes.

I’ve used it in our van and I get about 4 mpg less than I get with regular unleaded.
Jamie

I get almost 6 miles to the gallon less, on average with E-85, which would actually end up costing me $500 MORE for a year of burnin E85.

Your motor must be equipt to burn E-85.

I did see $2.62 in Fridley today..

The oil companies said gas will drop $.75 by labor day and the Minnesota Senate is proposing to drop the gas tax by $.20 cents.

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I get almost 6 miles to the gallon less, on average with E-85, which would actually end up costing me $500 MORE for a year of burnin E85.

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I see what your saying, but I would save about $14 a tank so I’ll let you now how good it works.

I use the following link almost everytime before I fill up!

Twin Cities Gas Prices
You can also find info from other states there.

Use of E85 versus Regular Gas

If you’re looking to save money buy fueling up E85… crunch the numbers.

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It gets as much as a third less mileage than gasoline, Mr. Radich said. But another Toledo customer said his tracking shows it to be about a fifth less, and General Motors claims it is about a fourth less.

It depends a bit on driving habits, according to GM. But in theory, it could mean people are filling up more often, spending more money ultimately than buying regular gas, and perhaps not greatly reducing usage of foreign oil.

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Locally I could buy gas (two days ago – prices change RAPIDLY as we all know) for $2.79.

E85 was $2.29.

I drive a GM vehicle. GM claims I’ll see a 25% decrease in mileage. I don’t trust those numbers from GM at all. Everyone I know that has tried is has seen at a minimum a 30% decrease in mileage.

E85 is only 18% cheaper than regular gas. I pay an EXTRA 7% to fuel with E85 based on GM’s estimate of how much I’ll loose in mileage?

I don’t think so.

Did anyone watch Datline on sunday night? They explained that if we were to simply begin switching over to E85 and eventually pure ethanol, within 5 years we could be 100% independant of foreign oil in 5 years. And boy then the estimated price for a gallon of E85 or pure ethanol would cost around 70 Cents a gallon. A pure ethanol car would also have better gas mileage than an E85 Flexible fuel car.

They plan to make the ethanol out of prarie grass which is a much more efficient way to produce it.

I would say to use as much of the E85 as possible. It will help drive down the price of both the E85 and gasoline.

I have also heard that you will get more power out of the E85, so maybe if you tow a boat it may not hurt your mileage so much. Just one of my theories… I just wish my truck burned E85.

we have 3 local guys burning only e85 here at our store and their reports are about a 2 to 4 miles per galon reduction in milage. they figure they end up even. (burn more spend less)=(spend more burn less) and they are supporting OUR farmers.my next truck will burn E85 and only E85

The other problem with E85 is it costs as much or more to produce then the higher Octane Gasolines. But, thanks to large political contributions, especially from ADM, the product is heavily subsidized but the Federal Government.

When I mentioned this a few months ago, and provided a rather lengthy article on the subject, I got blasted, especially from the Minnesota folks.

Nonetheless, time will tell there is little future for E85, especially among fishermen and hunters that need more HP and torque for their vehicles.

For me personally, if it’s a wash, I’m going to run E85. I have way to many family members who are farmers trying to make a go of it. I’d rather my dollars were spent there than in Venezuala or the middle east. I think this is a political debate and my opinion may be uneducated, but it’s all I got right now.

There I did it I filled up for the first time with e85. It cost me $48.38 for 21.5 gals. it would have cost me $63.43 for regular gas, that is a saving of $15.05 per tank. Now I’m going to pull the boat this weekend I’ll see if it makes a difference.

First and foremost, make sure your vehicle allows E85. If it does, it will say it inside the fuel filler cap. If I had a nickel, for every customer that put it in their car, and then brought their car to me and said ” my car isn’t running right ” misfiring, stumbling, idle issues, and sluggishness are small symptoms. Vehicles designed for E85, have different injector sizes, different engine controllers and different Oxygen sensors and exhausts. Burning E85 in a regular gasoline engine, will cost you $$$$$ if you do it enough. You’ve been warned !!!

big g

You are right G. I meant on my next truck. Not on the current one. Just what I need, more headaches.

Just to clarify… I’m all for finding petroleum alternatives. I do have a major problem with claiming E 85 reduces our dependance on foreign oil based on the reading I’ve done.

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Just to clarify… I’m all for finding petroleum alternatives. I do have a major problem with claiming E 85 reduces our dependance on foreign oil based on the reading I’ve done.
A gallon of E85 fuel contains 15% alcohol. If that gallon of fuel results in a reduction in mileage greater than 15%… we’re INCREASING our dependency on foreign oil and paying more to do it.

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I thought e85 was 85% ethenal & 15% gas. But if I’m wrong then I’m wasting my time with this. You are wright we are not helping at all.

Ooops. My bad. It is 85% ethanol.

Hookem, that is right. E85 is a blend of ethanol, which is the “stuff” they make from corn, and 15% good old petroleum gasoline. So in Jame’s senario, its just backwards. We would be dependent on 85% less gasoline, which is quite a bit.

big g

Guys,

It takes more energy to make ethanol, energy derived from oil, than we get out of the ethanol in the end.

UC scientist says ethanol uses more energy than it makes

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But in a recent issue of the journal Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences, UC Berkeley geoengineering professor Tad Patzek argued that up to six times more energy is used to make ethanol than the finished fuel actually contains.

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“People tend to think of ethanol and see an endless cycle: corn is used to produce ethanol, ethanol is burned and gives off carbon dioxide, and corn uses the carbon dioxide as it grows,” he said. “But that isn’t the case. Fossil fuel actually drives the whole cycle.”

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Do a search on google on this question >> Google – Energy from Ethanol

I can’t find any materials that support the idea that we get more energy out of a gallon of ethanol than we put in. If this is the case, burning E85 fuel to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil is a myth.

James, I’m sure there are plenty of takes on this. I would imagine it takes lots of energy (petroleum based) to produce gasoline also. I guess the best case senario is, vehicles and machinery, that run on Ethanol, producing Ethanol and distributing Ethanol. I would say that it is better for America to derive its fuel from corn, than from crude oil, with this scenario. JMO

big g

The way I look at it is similar to computers. If you keep supporting (buying it), and the government is subsudising it now, over time they will get better technology, more plants set up for it, find ways to use less alchohol, etc, and the cost will come down significantly.

My truck does not run on E85, but my wifes car does, and she runs it almost exclusively. We have not had the car long enough to do any side by side comparisons, but I will do the math personally and let you know.

And of course all you have to do is read my username and you can tell where my predjudices lie!

Slow down guys…………..

Slow WAY down…………….

Being now that E-85 is on the market………..

Can someone show me where the price of corn is going up?

Farmer’s are NOT reaping any rewards from this! I haven’t seen any increases in corn prices now that the ethanol business is going on. The only benefit that is occuring is that ADM and a few other large corporations is making money by purchasing cheap corn from the local farmer and getting MY TAX dollars to suppliment their business…….

Don’t kid yourself…….buying ethanol is not changing anything for the farmer today…….It is just increasing my taxes!!!!!

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I would say that it is better for America to derive its fuel from corn, than from crude oil, with this scenario. JMO

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I come from a farming family. I wish we could be self-sufficient but everything I can find is pointing to the fact that we cannot get to that point going this route. It takes petroleum to produce the corn. The fertilizers and herbicides / pesticides it takes to grow the corn require more petroleum to grow the corn than we can get back out as energy in the form of ethanol. Some of the sources / studies I’ve found think we’re using 4 – 6 times more energy to produce ethanol from corn that we get out of it.

This is a negative energy fuel. The more we make from corn, the further we fall behind. I’m afraid the more we burn in our cars and trucks the more dependant we become on foreign oil.

Then my question is how can Brazil be foreign oil free using methenal. Also coming from a farming family, my dad grow’s sugar beets. That would make good methenal, I think. Again I’m far from an expert on this.

I agree James, the way it is now. If we could get AWAY from the petroleum and make the fertilizers and pesticides with ethanol fuel, then its self sufficient. By no means are we there, but would it not be a shame if we didn’t look at all angles, and just kept using the oil until its gone or so overpriced. I guess, my biggest thing is being dependent, on areas of the world that have been volatile, since the time man set foot on this earth. Maybe it does cost more initially to switch over, but something has to be done. The National Corn Growers [censored]’n thinks Ethanol is a good idea, with more of it being consumed, you can bet the price will go up.

big g NCGA

There was a good editorial in the Wall Street Journal on Wednesday. This guy was a scientist and alot of it was over my head. But…he made a good point in that it takes about 2/3rds of a gallon of oil to produce a gallon of ethanol. It takes alot of energy to make energy so to speak and he was not sure if that was going to lead to a decline in dependence on foriegn oil. His opinion was that other alternatves needed to be developed and some of the best potential included things like switch grass(what biggill said). 50 million acres of it would apparently solve alot of our problems. The problem is that the enzymes used break corn down into alcohol fairly quickly but work much slower on grasses. The enzymes needed to be reengineered, or something like that, and to him that was the direction we needed to go.

Ah… excellent question.

Brazil is deriving their alcohol from the cane AFTER the sugar has been extracted. The cost to obtain the cane to be processed into energy is ZERO as those costs are largely obsorbed by the production of the can for sugar. They would and were growing the cane before they ever thought about processing it into fuel.

In the past the cane was burned or composted once the sugar was obtained.

We take corn and ferment alcohol FROM THE CORN. There is no value to derive from the corn after the fermentation process as the corn itself is consumed.

The best quote I’ve found so far about using corn to make ethanol….

“Deriving alcohol from corn is a subsidized food burning program that could not exists without the subsidies.”

One of Brazil’s major exports is sugar. It is an economically viable product on its own. The fact that they produce so much of it in huge fields allows them to use the cane, a waste product, to their advantage.

If we could efficiently derive our alcohol from a by-product from another operation the effect on oil dependancy could change dramatically.

Enuff on this, I’m heading to the pond…

big g

I saw that Dateline also.They talked about Brazil being energy independent.They get their ethanol from sugarcane.I’ve been hearing that our president wants to remove our tariff on imported ethanol .54 cents a gallon I think?I’ve heard a lot of opposition to this on farm radio news.

There are some uses for the corn after the production of the Ethanol, including corn gluten. Excellent feed for dairy animals.

I do agree though that E85 isn’t the anser to our fuel problems.

dave