The best reasons to make an attempt to conserve?
Because you can.
Maybe your kids will think you are cool and get behind the idea.
It’s the right thing to do, just as it’s the right thing not to litter on the lakes , rivers, hiways.
We can pee & moan all we want. Won’t matter. Do the thing that makes you feel good and makes your kids proud of you. Conserve where you can. Replace politicians wherever possible. Work hard and everything will be okay.
I’m in trouble… 
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In 40 years when I’m talking to my grandkids,….What am I going to say when they ask why oil went up so fast in the 2000’s? I guess the answer will be,……ahhhh,…..ummmmm,….I dunno. This just bites
Nothing personal, but why don’t you tell them the truth….that your generation and the one before you guzzled gas like there was no end to it??? Politics aside, gasoline is just another commodity that is highly priced based on the laws of supply and demand. The less there is the higher the price is! Now the original poster asked that we keep politics out of the equation, and we all know that politics play a major part, but ask yourself “what have I done to help lower the price of gas, lately?”. We, myself included, as a generally affluent and hard-working society want to bask in the fruits of our labor. We feel, somehow, that because we work hard 40+ hours a week that we are somehow entitled to live extravagantly on our free-time. We want to have fun because we deserve it! For most of us, that means we want to head to the lake with our big boat with the 150hp motor, pulled by our 4×4 1ton truck, we want to leave early so the wife and kids drive up seperately on Saturday morning. When we get there we gas up all the toys, take the boat for a ride, drive the neighbors nuts with our jet-skis, maybe hop on the dirt-bike or four-wheeler and go for a spin. We rarely think about the consequences of our “thirst” for all the gas that is required of living this type of lifestyle! I’m not saying we should all stay home and have no fun, but be a little introspective folks! Lately I’ve been asking myself what can I do to curb this problem. We all know the answer, if we are honest with ourselves! We used to get by with 2-wheel drive pickups (do they even make them anymore???), we used to get by with 12-16′ boats and 25HP motors, and we used to walk if we wanted to see what was down that old logging trail……all of which used a heck of a lot less gas!!! Every single one of us dreams of a simpler time or the “good ole days”, well, if you really want to know what to say to your grandkids about why there’s so little gas left or the price is so dang high, then I think you know what you have to do. It’s a very tough decision for any of us to make. We’ve grown accustomed to living a certain way and we want somebody else to make changes so we don’t have to. Got news for you, we all have to start making changes and quit pointing the finger or passing the buck. If you really Do Care about the future of your children or their children, NOW is the time to start. Think for a moment what you can do to curb your appetite for gasoline and act upon it. Don’t wait for me to do it, because I might be waiting on you!!!
I hope nobody’s offended by my ranting and raving, I’d like to blame it on the fact that I studied Wilderness Management and tend to be influenced by the types of Aldo Leopold or Sigurd Olson, but the fact of the matter is that I’m getting older and have been contemplating my limited time here on earth and those that will be left behind…..I desperately want to leave a legacy of the “Good Ole Days” for them, just as my father did for me! Thanks for listening. 
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The best reasons to make an attempt to conserve?
Because you can.
Maybe your kids will think you are cool and get behind the idea.
It’s the right thing to do, just as it’s the right thing not to litter on the lakes , rivers, hiways.We can pee & moan all we want. Won’t matter. Do the thing that makes you feel good and makes your kids proud of you. Conserve where you can. Replace politicians wherever possible. Work hard and everything will be okay.
Yep! I would tend to agree with the man 
I wonder what would really happen if we made it a point to reduce our milage we normally drive by 10%. We would hope that the 10% reduction would make the price of fuel go down. Then again if the oil companies are gouging and see this as a chance to raise prices again and give any reason they have for the hike in price it may not work in a short period of time but if we stuck too it and just fished our home waters it may work in a longer period of time. I think what would effect an oil price drop under these conditions isn’t the supply and demand ratio going down but everybody doing something for one purpose and that makes politicians realize were not messing around and were doing something for a cause, this means votes to them and thier bread and butter. I don’t know how many gallons of gasoline we use in a day here in America but if we had a 10% reduction in consumption for an extended period of time, say all summer into fall what would it do to the thoughts of politicians. The reason im saying this is because last year the oil companies made bigger profits than they ever have befor. In my thinking if theres less oil how come thier making more money without raising the price per barrell over what it was just a year ago. They have to be taking advantage of this situation if theres less oil and thier making more money. Why should we keep thier pockets lined with the big profits thay expect to make just because theres less oil, thier profits should drop too. Sure theres less oil available on the world market but i wonder what other reasons there are besides war and turmoil in oil countries that are keeping the supply down and the prices up. Am I the only one that knows of the huge oil reservers in this country besides the modern oil recovery processes we have to bring oil out of old wells thats completely feasable to do. Heres one reason why they don’t do it because they can make more money buying oil from opec oil fields. I can tell you one thing that if they opened up the reserves in this country that we have the price of gasoile would drop like a rock and it would really urine off opec because they are making huge profits right now along with the local oil companies, this is the last thing they want when there making the present day huge oil profits with cheap oil from the mideast bought for 7$ a barrell, thats right $7 a barrell. If we told the presedent to open up the reserves to substancially drop the price of oil he would make alot of enemies in opec. The rest of the world who buys oil from opec would demand that they drop prices too but who wants that when huge amounts of money are being made, they’ve got it made and no one in power wants to do anything about it. If it were possible to get a website going where everyone could demand in the millions that the president tell opec where to stick it he would and so would the other politicians, they want votes and love the options of making alot of money doing what thier doing so they want to be voted in again. Thier not stupid they would tell opec what we want or were going to open up our huge reserves which would drop world oil prices for other countries too, but what politician wants that when thier on the receiving end of oil profits and all the profits made from oil synthetics, plastics etc. These companies are making alot of money off our backs because they won’t tell opec what to do and opec could if they wanted too. Anybody ever wonder how much money the opec oil drilling companies are paying for thier oil over there and how much it costs to bring it to thier ports for sale to the world, i’ll bet its not over 5$ a barrell. I’ve been sent mail saying i could buy oil options from buyers who are buying out small mid east oil drilling companies in counties for 7$ a barrell. If thier able to buy out these drilling companies who already own the oil over there and i can make a profit doing it how much are they paying for the oil in the ground over there, a few dollars a barrell? Theres room for our government to tell opec to drop thier prices but what politician is going to do that when they can buy that same oil over there im offered and hoping to keep the prices up. Were getting reamed by opec and the oil companies here. Man i don’t like to be taken advantage of because i need gas for my car and this is they way it looks to me.
Joe, why do you go for Jon’s throat when he posts up a very good link as to why the market’s react as they have? Kind of a cheap shot. 
Dave, do you really think Bush is responsible for gas prices or the price of oil? Last I heard, it is OPEC who sets the price for oil, and today it went over $70 per barrel. Give me one bit of proof other then “Bush has his hands in oil pretty deep.” Something tangible, and not speculation. I will bet you a tank of gas that the next democratic President will face these very same issues if the world situation is as it is right now.
So if we pump up our tires, and conserve, and elect Hillary, we will be paying how much less at the pumps?
Conservation (IMHO) will not change the playing field in any significant way because there are way to many variables to control. However, you can save your OWN money by conserving, and throttling back and driving less. Don’t expect to see a change at the pump though. The choice is yours.
Again, when oil prices were at $35 per barrel and they (Big Oil) added a 8% profit they would sell that oil to the refinery they would buy it for $43.75. A net profit of $8.75 per barrel. Take that same 8% and apply it to a $70 barrel, and the sell price to the refinery is $87.50, and a net profit of $17.50. (My percentages are for effect only, I have no clue what they charge.) Same profit margin, different result. Applying the “Give it back” logic would be tantamount to communism.
Like Dave said, gas is cheap. Deal with it.
Here is a very interesting read. (Dave, you might not want to read this because it talks about Bush seeking out other energy sources…just kidding…)
But this was in 2005, and look where oil prices were then , and look where they are now. Very interesting. Also, look at what they say about the military aspect as it relates to oil, and you can see it coming true in Nigeria, Iran, and Venezuala. It does not matter which side of the political fence you are on. That little math problem I did on the post above? Look how that translates into mega-millions in a purchase of Unocal…
San Francisco Chronicle
David Lazarus
April 8, 2005
There’s been a lot of ink spilled this week about the risk ChevronTexaco’s chief exec, David O’Reilly, has taken in paying about $16.4 billion for rival Unocal and its oil resources.
Because Unocal’s stock has soared 75 percent over the past year, the thinking goes, ChevronTexaco could find itself with a white elephant on its hands if currently sky-high oil prices end up coming back to earth.
Well, I’m prepared to say this much: O’Reilly isn’t stupid. He knows more than most people about world oil markets.
So if the head of San Ramon’s ChevronTexaco is prepared to gamble more than 16 billion bucks on oil prices staying at stratospheric levels, I’m ready to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And reading between the lines, that means only one thing.
Peak oil.
We’re basically there.
Peak oil is a controversial notion that’s been floating around the oil industry for decades. It concerns the inevitable moment when world oil production hits its peak and, from that point on, reserves are on an ever- dwindling downward spiral.
Peak oil means prices will inexorably push higher and higher in the face of surging demand. This in turn will have a catastrophic impact on oil- addicted economies around the planet and, according to some prognosticators, could lead to wars over remaining supplies.
Amos Nur, a professor of geophysics at Stanford University, told me that if we’re not at peak oil right now, “we’re in the neighborhood.”
ChevronTexaco and the other oil majors know this as well, he said, and this is why they’re scrambling to secure as much global reserves as they can.
“There’s no question in my mind that they are aware of this and that they are right,” Nur said. “Oil prices are not coming back down.”
Not everyone, of course, accepts that the dire peak oil scenario is about to play itself out. The U.S. Energy Department, for example, is forecasting that world oil production won’t peak until 2037 or so.
“The world production peak for conventionally reservoired crude is unlikely to be ‘right around the corner’ as so many other estimators have been predicting,” department researchers said in a report last year. “Our analysis shows that it will be closer to the middle of the 21st century than to its beginning.”
If so, then ChevronTexaco’s O’Reilly has made a spectacularly bad bet with the Unocal deal.
I’m guessing, though, that he has a better fix on conventionally reservoired crude than do government bureaucrats. There’s a reason O’Reilly pulled down nearly $10 million in compensation last year.
So if we’re hitting peak oil sooner than later, what are the ramifications?
First off, oil was trading Thursday around $54 per barrel. This price level led Wall Street investment bank Goldman Sachs, a major energy trader, to warn last week that “oil markets may have entered the early stages of what we have referred to as a ‘super spike’ period.”
By Goldman’s reckoning, this could result in oil trading as high as $105 per barrel, which would have a ripple effect on everything from gas prices ($6 per gallon) to manufacturing costs.
Meanwhile, global oil demand is forecast by the International Energy Agency to rise by 2.2 percent this year to an average of 84.3 million barrels a day.
The United States now accounts for about a quarter of world oil consumption (with more than half that total imported from OPEC and other overseas producers).
But China’s supercharged economy is proving equally thirsty for oil. By some estimates, annual oil consumption in China is growing seven times faster than in the United States.
Stanford’s Nur believes that runaway demand from China (and to a slightly lesser extent India), coupled with America’s reliance on oil imports, will lead to an almost certain clash of interests once we’ve passed the point of peak production.
“Each country has the same national security policy — to get as much oil as it can for itself,” he said. “If this isn’t managed well, we could have a military conflict.”
The problem is that even though no one disputes the inevitability of peak oil — global resources are finite — precious little is being done today to prepare for this outcome.
For his part, President Bush has called for accelerated development of more fuel-efficient vehicles, including hydrogen-powered cars.
But the White House had budgeted just $1.7 billion for research into hydrogen technology over the next few years, compared with the nearly $6 billion being spent every month in Iraq (which just so happens to have the world’s second-largest oil supply).
“There are still many things we can do,” Nur said. “But every day that passes, it’s going to get more difficult.”
Without a coordinated global commitment to managing the consequences of peak oil, he said, the scope of the looming problems is almost too vast to contemplate.
“We’re running out of time,” Nur concluded. “Look at how oil prices are going up. We’re already in panic mode.”
History shows that when others are panicking, it’s the ones who keep a cool head that end up profiting.
ChevronTexaco’s O’Reilly is spending a lot of money on Unocal.
He’s keeping a very cool head indeed.
Chris,
I guess maybe I have a problem with someone that talks down to people. It had nothing to do with the link he posted. Talking about cheap shots……that is the ultimate cheap shot. I didn’t ask the question of why the prices were going up, I know why they are. Maybe you should stop trying to cheap shot me and start seeing something other than what you choose not to see…If you have a (Problem with) me, that’s your problem, not mine…read the original post. It seems that with some of you around here take a lot of pleasure in taking cheap shots at me because I disagree with your point of view, and you seem to be the first to shoot. As you notice I didn’t say “Well, I was wondering how long it would be before you had something to stir this up”….remember that statement….you made it. That wasn’t a cheap shot was it????
I was not disagreeing with you. 
Actually I think I was pretty clear is stating that conservation will help YOU in the wallet, and not change gas prices.
I am refering to your “
to the Great Jon.”
I do not have a (Problem with) you. But I do have an issue when someone puts up facts to back up their position, and someone makes a comment such as yours. Personally I don’t think Jon was talking down to anyone. I could be wrong, but I don’t see it. He was stating his take on the Strib article like you asked. Joe, you and I have talked, I have no problem with you, and you know it. We both come from completely different sides of the tracks. When you throw a firebomb out there like that, be prepared for comments that may differ from your way of thinking. I have no beef with your Strib link thinking conservation will bring down prices at the pump. If you want to believe that or not, that is your issue.
Peace! 
Tuck
Anyone watch *Farenheight 911* lately? 
That was the documentary done on Mr Bush not so long ago.
It doesnt make a difference what anyone thinks.. the prices are out of control and it sucks. It effects some of us much more than others, but we are all effected.
Its time for someone to come up with a decent battery operated car.. plug it in overnight and good to go a few hundred miles in the morning. I remember about 15 years ago that a person could convert a vehicle to battery operated for about $6000. There was a lot of hype and disbelief and they put one in a stock car and hit 200 mph on the track.. but it couldnt have had that much range.
Why do I have the feeling it wouldnt save any money? If that were to become common our power bills would probably triple in a few months time.
I saw some really cool stuff using magnets. It is how they propel the bullet trains. WOW! They alternate the current from + to – in a millesecond! The end result is propulsion. It would be cool to see technology come around to something like that. Electricity can and does provide the most usable horsepower of anything this side of nuclear engergy. Train engines are big diesels powering generators. The generators power the trains electric drive engines. I think the biggest challenge out there is to find a way to renew the energy and provide long range platforms. Electric cars/trucks that can pull boats! 
I am all for it! I hope we see it in our lifetime!
This chart is the alternative. It is the last year in review regarding the barrel price for oil.
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Anyone watch *Farenheight 911* lately?
That was the documentary done on Mr Bush not so long ago.
Sort of, I shut it off after ten minutes..
The price of gasoline is getting so high I am going to have to stop putting it in my drinks. No more Molotov Cocktails for me, thats my conservation contribution, and it will save me a bundle, although, I don’t expect it to lower the price at the pump much! 
A fiscal conservative,huh? I finally figured out what TBO/MN must stand for “The Bill O’reilly of Minnesota” Right? 
Tuck-just to clarify, OPEC sets the level of supply. They do set their supply to achieve a target price, but it is the markets that still drive the price. OPEC just controls the supply of oil on the market.
OPEC would like (I think), to have lower oil prices. At $70-$80/gallon, people start changing behavior and look for more oil. They dont really want competion to their market.
When does gas get expensive? When people stop buying it. Probably around $10/gallon.
Dave, I asked when is not cheap. I don’t mind paying for something, but I feel gas and all petroleum products for that matter, are somewhat mafia with their pricing. I also want you to know, if you work for Koch, I have no problem with you making a living, but I am sure, when the price of fuel goes up, your paycheck doesn’t stay in line with the increase. Someone is gettin fat. Looks like we will have to have the gov’t take a look at it, like they did healthcare awhile back. I am not holding my breath for that though. Much like the steel industry cringes when auto makers use more composites, plastic and fibreglass in their cars, the oil industry DOES NOT want hybrids, electric and hydrogen based vehicles. It’s only natural. I always laugh when I hear the argument, that people pay about $10 a gallon for the fancy bottled water, and complain about $2.50 for gasoline. Difference being, I can run on tap water, but my car cannot. I have no choice to run the tap gas.
big g 
I stand by what I wrote. Conservation will do nothing to lower gas prices. Political stability in the middle east will.
Fahrenheit 911 is not a documentary. It’s a fictional fantasy movie. Want to read more? >>> http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Plug and play cars…. Great idea. As long as you are ok with having a nuclear power plants in your back yard.
-J.
Whats happened to all those carburators that have been built that get 100 miles a gallon. Thier all bought up and set on a shelf so the oil conpanies can sell more gas. I know they need the petroleum based chemicles for plastics etc. and thats another branch that is being explored is organic based or waterbased plastics from plants. One thing is for sure more funding needs to be freed up for science to find those products. For now it looks like its time to conserve and get used to not making long drives. I know that the manufacturing of ethanol is on the front burner and Iowa and Minnesota is in high gear in making new plants to produce it. Better get used to it i guess.
Dave, that is correct. Same thing said differently. They do not set the actual $ per barrel, I agree the market does that. But my number excercise remains the same, which lends itself more to the point I was trying to illustrate.
BTW folks, it is not just gas! Copper and aluminum are at all time highs! And not showing any sign of coming down! These are materials used in EVERY piece of electronic equipment you purchase. This will affect jobs here in the US due to smaller manufacturers not being able to compete in North America with the higher wages and metal and fuel costs. Asia has no where near the overhead we do here in the US. I recently lost my job in the copper industry due to these dynamics.
Eyejacker,
Was that a cheap shot?? I have no idea where you are coming from. Fiscal conservative, Bill O’Reilly…????? And believe me, “You haven’t figured it out!!!” Here is another example Chris….Peace
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Whats happened to all those carburators that have been built that get 100 miles a gallon.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/fish3.htm
-J.
Here is the copper history. Pricing for copper to manufacturers were based on the lower values. The Asians are keeping the prices down to eliminate the comp. here in the US. They know that the US cannot afford to operate as a loss. When the US companies tried to adjust price to reflect the market price, the Chinese would continue to offer it at well below out pricing because they COULD! Two major North American manufacturers of electronic grade copper have gone out of business this year. And the last operating plant is owned by the Japanese. How smart is that? Knowing that copper is the base material is all electronics made and designed for the defense of our country. We are now beholden to the Chinese and Japanese for copper. Not a good feeling.
Aluminum is no different.
A little refresher, Joe, from your post of 3/23/06: BTW: I am not a democrat, or a liberal…I am a fiscal conservative, and a social “middle of the road”…….My job as an American is to question, stir the pot, if you will..”
Upon re-reading your own statement in light of your above comments, may I respectfully suggest that it is you that has not figured it out!
My point being, what has any of that got to do with this thread?? If you look back to my original post, it has nothing to do with a political stance on anything, simple question, that seems to have gone awry. I can only think of one reason for you to make the statement you made, and that was to take a cheap shot. You made your point.. My original post You may want to read it.
question, why is it before a big weekend, say memorial day, july 4th, gas prices goup about .10cents/ gallon ? is it because of supply and demand ? or is it because, the oil companies know, we will not sit at home and stare at the wall ? we will have our trucks and boats and toys out.
big g 
Supply and demand. Simple. During a normal week, you may fill up your truck or car once or twice at some point. Before a holiday you are filling that car or truck, boat, wheeler, waverunner, etc. And most people are doing it on Friday. I always try to gas up for my weekend trips earlier in the week if possible.
so then, assuming the fuel in the ground tank is filled monday, and is sold on tuesday or friday, that would make friday- sunday gouge days, right ?
big g
You learn quickly grasshopper.
(G, I apologize if you take offense by me referring to you as a Grasshopper. At least I didn’t call you a conservative. )
Chris,
I agree with everything you just said, but Jon says that cutting demand isn’t going to help the price of fuel. I see these rises and falls in local gas prices as well as everyone. To go back to the original question…What, and how much conservation will it take to make a difference??? Jon states that that attitude is “euphorian” way of thinking, thus having no effect. What are we supposed to believe??? Some here say that OPEC is the one to blame, some say that OPEC has nothing to do with pricing of gas, some say it is the republicans, some say it is the “Bush” way of doing things, some take cheap shots, some really don’t care, some give links to websites that don’t answer anything, some give websites that say things they want to hear, on and on and on……….I am so confused….Please Calgon, take me away
BTW: I am really looking forward to this weekend, so we can “NOT” talk about all this stuff, pay my $2.69 for gas, and fish, fish, fish, fish, and eat turkey and “pout”…..Peace
You asked for an opinion. My opinion is that conservation on your part will save you money. My belief is that it will not change the price at the pump.
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