I find it ironic that you call your buddy a law abiding person when he illegally obtained a social security number to find work illegally so he can afford to drive his car with his illegally gotten driver’s license in the USA where he residing illegally.
The law is the law. Black and white. There is no gray area.
My two cents.
I find it ironic that in todays paper, there was a owner of a Mexican Resturant in Austin that will be goin to prison for not paying overtime and minimum wage. The owner was also illegal.
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…you wanna talk fairness?? how about paying his fair share for using the roads, streetlights and all the things taken directly out of our checks?
Isn’t this the responsibility of the employer who is writing those checks? We can’t just blame the “illegals” in this situation.
They wouldn’t be coming here to the good old US of A if someone wasn’t paying them for the work they do. If there is a “crack down” on undocumented immigrants, we can’t ignore the people who are hiring them.
I hear what you are saying Curt;
However if an employer ask for proper identification, as set forth by the state/federal guidelines (basically, social security card and DL or other valid state issued ID) that is within the realm of their responsibility.
Now, if you have “suspicion” that one of your employees is an illegal immigrant, you can challenge that employee, but you better have darn good reasoning behind your challenge.
If you wrongfully challenge someone about their “papers being in order”, you better get an attorney. Because you WILL be sued by that individual and probably have the ACLU on your butt if you are wrong.
I can hear people already saying “BS” to this law…….However, if you call BS to this law of protecting peoples rights, then it gives me no different reason to challenge anyone here on this site to prove to me they are a US citizen……Sure, they can have a DL, a Social Security card, a Birth Certificate, and a hand full of relatives saying they are……….but “prove it”!!!!!
Basically;
I can get you a Social Security card and a Green Card by tomorrow morning, if you wish. Let me know, because you can get them on the streets in St. Paul. This has been common knowledge for many, many years…….
Guys;
This is huge……Much bigger than what most do realize. We are talking millions of people here. Probably talking in the realm of 100,000 just in Minnesota, if not 200,000.
Can you imagine the short-term impact it would have, if we pulled 200,000 people out of Minnesota over-night.
If we did, you wouldn’t be at:
McDonalds
Grocery Store
Basic manufacturing shops
Like it or not, the illegal immigrants are working “labor” jobs. Labor meaning that they are producing a finished good for someone else.
I have a son-inlaw from Mexico who is now a US citizen. Very similar scenario. It took money, patients, intimidation, but I saw him and a bunch of others raise their right hand and become citizens. Illegal as could be to start. Don’t think your friend is trying to go through the process to hard. As a retired State Trooper what can I say about the illegal status,it is just that. They can go out the way they came in then apply for work status and return if eligible.
You know… my buddy has not had anything handed to him on a silver platter. he has dreams and ambitions… but cannot follow through on them because of what others did TO him. With as black and white as some of you think… and as tough a stance that you seem to have… well, I am ashamed to call you a “fellow American”.
My parents were married during WWII.Dad was US Navy Mom was from N.Ireland.Two of my mothers’ sisters and their husbands moved over here.My Dad had to Sponsor them and sign a paper with our gov’t that he would make sure they did not go on welfare for a number of years.I appreciate and respect all hard working people,but I think for the sake and security of everyone here now, we need to get back control.
Spincast,
I don’t disagree with you. I agree that there is an immigration problem. I agree that maybe we need a 20′ high (electric) fence around the country. I don’t like the fact that there are those coming across illegally. So, I hope nobody here thinks that I am pro-illegal immigration. Because I am not. My whole arguement is to open peoples eyes that the latino guy working down at taco bell may not have hidden in the AZ desert after crossing the border. The immigration bill that was on the table will help thousands of people living in America to contribute more to America by being legal. If you recall your years in grade school… America was built on immigration. So, those who want to immigrate now to better their life are no worse a person than our own ancestors.
Wow I am a little surprised by some of the replies in this thread. This friend of Cletus was brought here by his parents when he was 10, his parents get legal status and he does not how fair is that? He did not ask to come here his parents brought him, and sounds like to me that he has done everything in his power to try and do things the right way to get legal status and because of a bunch of red tape can not. For each of you that would have him deported put yourself in his shoes if you had to go back? Basically this is the only life he has ever known he knows no one in Mexico has no friends or family there where would you go what would you do? I just do not understand why some of you do not have some compation for this one guy, I am not talking about all the illegal’s that chose to cross our borders illegally I am all for deporting each and everyone of them, but this is a losing battle as the USA simple does not have the man power to stop the flood of people who come into this country illegally.
Cletus if it were up to me I’d let your friend in.On the flip side my wifes’ car was struck and totaled by an uninsured motorist a few years back,granted he could have been from anywhere and the fact that he couldn’t speak English may not have made any difference.Maybe the sign should read “Hard working honest people welcome here”
Steve, I have always considered myself a man’s man… but you got be choked up… Got tears… Man, I am glad someone can see the position he is in. He didn’t do this to himself. but is leftto fend for what he can do. I am really glad there are still some compassionate people left on this site taht do not see things as always black and white or all or nothing. Thank you steve. You are a stand-up guy.
I agree Gary and Deeplake. Good points. Just what I was thinking and knowing.
Illegials. Illegial immigrants. Illegial aleins. Get it? They have committed a crime by coming into this country without the proper identification. I don’t know if I spelled illegial correct, I am just a dumb walleye fisherman on pool 4&5 of old Miss. If they wish to come to this country legally, fine. Illegials choke the welfare system just by having a few anchor babies and the taxpayer is left with the bill. Emergency rooms will not turn away the sick. Illegials don’t pay the bill. Americans are left with higher health costs. Illegials dont pay into social security, they send their money back to their homeland. Illegials don’t wish to blend into American culture, therefore Americans must learn their language in order to communicate with them. The educational system must be reworked so these illegials can understand, and get a free education. Who pays? The American taxpayer.Learn the english language.Let them walk out. I hope they walk to were they came from. They have no rights in America,they are illegial immigrants!
Good fishing!
I’m back out.
Yeti
Welcome to the site Yeti. I’m a pool #4 guy myself.
This is why we need a better more efficient process for letting the people who want to come here to work do so. Now matter how hard we try or what we try to put in place its going to be impossible to put anything into place along the mexican border to try to make it secure and if they did try to do it the cost would be overwhelmingly enormous and it still wouldn’t work. If theres anyone here that knows anything about the immiration and filing process maybe they could give thier suggestions on a new simpler process. This is just like any complex problem involving a huge mass of people, This is just to hard to slove considering the amount of people and conditions with a costly fence along the border. Why not just have a simple filing system to enter with conditions, this will make it easier for the mexicans to come here legally but with conditions until they have earned the possibility of citzenship. The present system we have now is why theres problems with births and im sure other situations too and is just creating more problems. When it comes to people here with a green card having a new one born they also stay the nationality of where thier parents came from, not a U.S citizen yet because their parents aren’t yet, this just makes more problems to try to sort out. If the parents earn thier citizenship then thier children that were born here automatically become citizens too, not befor jusy because they were born here. The mexicans coming here with green cards and here illigally are using thier children that are considered citizens now as holding cards to get them citizenship, thats what has happened all over. If they want to come here too work thier staus is in limbo until they receive citizenship then the rest of thier newborn automatical become citizens that were born here, not befor. The system and process thats now in place is creating problems and holding cards for the (visitors) to bring up to the United States. Make it simple, you come here too work, you file for citizenship when cetain qualifacations are met then they become citizens if accepted, children too.
Yeti,
Welcome to IDA. As you’ve discovered, in addition to debating long-lining vs. leadcore for walleyes, we also get into some good discussions about politics and society. I seem to be in the minority here at IDA in that I am a progressive (not liberal!) Democrat. No matter one’s political persuasion here, all thoughts seem to be respectfully welcomed but not necessarily agreed upon.
A few comments about your thoughts on illegal immigrants…
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Illegials choke the welfare system just by having a few anchor babies and the taxpayer is left with the bill. Emergency rooms will not turn away the sick. Illegials don’t pay the bill. Americans are left with higher health costs.
I would hardly say that illegal immigrants “choke” the welfare system. While some do get help, a large majority of people on public assistance are our own legal residents. Same thing with hospital costs. We have tens of millions of legal citizens who don’t pay their medical bills.
Care costs for illegal immigrants are only a “blip on the radar” when we look at why healthcare costs are rocketing upward. If you really want to get to the bottom of high medical costs, let’s take a good hard look at health insurance companies, unwarranted medical malpractice suits, and pharmaceutical companies.
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Illegials dont pay into social security, they send their money back to their homeland.
Keep in mind that illegals don’t receive any social security benefits. If the proper deductions are not being taken from their pay, then we need to look at the employers. Gary made some good points on this issue a few posts back, but employers have some responsibilities on this issue as well.
Also, immigrants pay taxes in sales tax and property tax. Even if they are only renting, the property owner uses that rent payment to pay property taxes.
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Illegials don’t wish to blend into American culture, therefore Americans must learn their language in order to communicate with them.
American culture is a blend of hundreds of cultures. When my family has its gatherings, we eat lefse and you hear a lot of “uff-da’s.” Should we give those up to be more American?
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The educational system must be reworked so these illegials can understand, and get a free education. Who pays? The American taxpayer.Learn the english language.
If we are talking about Spanish speaking immigrants, remember where they learned it from. The native peoples of Mexico and Central America learned Spanish from their European conquerors. Would things be different if the English had been the ones to get to these areas first?
Also we have plenty of legal citizens who don’t speak English as their native language.
I certainly agree that illegal immigration is a problem in this country, but not for the reasons that some people want us to believe. My suggestion for helping to stem this problem is to more closely watch our entryways (Mexico, Canada, airports, seaports) and also go after those people who illegally employ undocumented people.
Yeti,
You did not answer my question, what would you do if you were Tito? He has tried everything in his power to become legal, reread Cletus’s post and put yourself in his shoes and tell me what you would have him do?
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For all of you who think this is a black and white issue… Here is real senario that is happening to a good friend of mine and one of my favorite fishing buddies.
Tito (ok.. made up name… not about to use his real one) was brought to our country illegally by his parents when he was about 10 years old. His father was a legal worker at the time and his family moved to California to stay with him. Through the years… he went to school… his mother obtained legal status for herself. Some years back, the government instituted a policy for a short time where “illegals” could become legal. But that provision did not allow for minors. He was about 15 at the time. He had moved to MN with his older brother who WAS and adult. His brother gained legal status at that time as well. So, now… at 23 years old… Everyone in his family is in the US and are legal. Except for him. He has consulted lawyers time and time again to try and obtain legal status. He has no family or relatives in Mexico. He was brought here as a child. He speaks fluent english… even graduated high school. He has a child with a white mother. Is Engaged to be married… but will not on account of the chance he could get deported and leave the mother fending for herself. He is a stand-up guy. Willing to do anything to help you out.
Now, should he NOT be allowed to obtain legal status? Here at 10 years old and has NEVER had the opportunity to get legal. He pays taxes… and social security (thought not to his own SSN of course). He contributes to society. he has NO family or freinds in Mexico. Should we send him back to Mexico?
To those of you that think this is black and white… be careful of how you lump all “illegals” into 1 category. My friend is a law-abiding citizen and hasn’t had as much as a speeding ticket. he works hard and provides for his family and considers himself American (since that is how he has lived for 13 years).
Oh… and I am sure that those who think this probably are not native american… so, if you are so high and mighty and holier than though… remember that you were NOT here first. I am the opinion that, while we are at it… we ship you back off to the country your heritage comes from (germany?)
America… LAND OF THE FREE….
“Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free”
I can think of two things that will help with the “illegal” part of aliens. #1. All green cards will have a ‘bar code and or computer chip’ inserted and laminated in plastic. #2. Employers will be held accountable to check out S.S.N.s and read the bar codes/compluter chips. Bar codes/computer chips could be read at Drivers license bureaus, county court houses, or large employers can have their own readers installed. Owners/Managers will do “time” for second and subsequent hiring of Illegals without valid green cards. If bar codes/computer chips work for things like drivers licenses, hunting licenses, even lost pets, they could work here. You can bet that if an owner or manager is held personally accountable, they will be careful and comply.
I have no problem with “legal” alien/immigrints. They are a part of all of our heritage, and a necessary part of todays economy. It is the Illegal part I have problems with.
Sure is a tough subject. Every illegial seems to have a different situation. Guess I don’t have the perfect solution.I think better border enforcement would be a start.I am no racist,we have all ended up in this great melting pot one way or another. I just believe open borders is not the solution.
Good fishing to all-
I’m back out.
Yeti
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