Wow! Economy must be great! Or Bad?

I know I can’t convey tone through typing…but I certainly wasn’t being a smart [censored] with my question about you in need of a job. I was curious about where you were coming from…I guess now I know!

I know from stories I’ve seen about the auto industry that pensions/health care are taking their toll on GM. I also believe unions serve a good purpose…but times have changed. Health care is expensive…and most people keep paying more and more for theirs. The way I understood things…is retired auto workers had much of their premiums paid for…in most other jobs that is not the case.

As for the airline industry…I’m sorry times have been tough for you at NWA…but they have been suffering for many years. I don’t think you can blame this administration for NWA’s problems…it goes beyond that.

I’m sorry I took your comment the wrong way. We disagree about this administration, so what! Please do not feel sorry for me, I’m not looking for sympathy, feel sorry for the thousands of laid off Americans that have seen their jobs sent elsewhere. People can throw out whatever numbers they want and believe what they want, but that doesn’t hide the facts.You are right about NWA, it is a very poorly run company, I don’t blame people for their dislike, the state has bailed them out enough.

Jon, there ya go with numbers again. Whose numbers are they?? I thought they looked a little out of whack, so I did a little research, and low and behold, came up with some of my own. They aren’t very close to yours. At the lowest number you gave, $6236 per pupil, I just figure the number of students in our school district. With 1250 students that figures out to $7.7 million, and at your highest number of $14446 that figures out to $18.1 million. With the total operating budget for the school dist. being $6.2 million ….that just doesn’t add up. Now, using the formula that our school dist. used for an operating referendum last fall, the number falls even farther. The dist. tax payers pay everything except $103. per pupil, and the state/federal funds pick that up. Now, the numbers, are the numbers…who you going to believe…you want to make it look like we spend way to much on education, and the school dist. wants to make it look like we don’t spend enough….Who ya gonna believe….

Dave, There isn’t any reason business contributions couldn’t be capped off below the $1M example I used. My main point is that SS funding should be much broader based than it is.

This is not going to be received well, but I have to do it anyway. Education is actually suffering from funding cuts. The feds have cut $ to the schools, but keep increasing programs that have to be funded. Who ends up picking up the costs, the states. The states are feeling the crunch as well, resulting in extra-curricular programs being cut. This results in the parents of student paying for those activities. Justice, in some peoples eyes, but not in others. I am a teacher, and wish that funding wasn’t an issue, but it is, and will always be one. As far as the political discussion, they are never good. Unless you want to stir the pot

I hope all have a great day
Darin/bassman

http://www.mntax.org/cpfr/education.php

I don’t make this stuff up.

The lowest number I gave was the “Average”. Many districts are going to be lower than the average. You asked for the average, I gave you that number.

St Paul school dist. is well over $6500 per student. Minneapolis is about the same.

Now Joe, since we are talking numbers and education. Can you tell me the percentage of students that graduate in Minnesota? Or a more interesting number, the percentage of metro area students that graduated last year?

edit: I’ll be fair. The numbers I’m looking at are of students that entered 8th grade but failed to graduate with thier class.

-J.

Hastings was $6000 per student.

If you do a search on your own school district, you will find it.

Couple of good links:

School Matters

Minnesota Dept of Education

-J.

Jon,
I wasn’t saying you were making your numbers up, all I said is that there are hundreds of ways to find, use, and interpret numbers. Numbers are used to support ones view point, and no matter what view point you take, you can always find numbers to support it. That is all I said…….end of discussion!!

If I could find a party who would lower taxes, create more jobs, lower health care costs, level the playing feild with competition from overseas and go on a world wide kicking spree to collect all the money that is owed us, I would jump on it. For now, its the lesser of two evils and I am gonna put my vote where my wallet is.

If China or Korea can produce a car or any other product for a fraction of what we can make it for by paying those who build it 32 cents an hour, we either need to have an import tax to level things out, or we need to stop importing that product. Or, we could raise the price of our exports to make up for it, which do you think bennefits us the most?

I agree, it is a lesser of two evils. By no means do I think the other side is any better, I’m not a real political type of guy, but holy crap!

Bassman,

I understand what you are saying, and think more funding should be given to the state level. It’s the people who have children that are using the school systems that are using the standard deduction for each kid. I don’t have kids, so I’m not getting that same deduction. If that deduction wasn’t there for those parents, wouldn’t that equate to more money for funding?

I know it sounds too simple, but thats probably why the government hasn’t figured it out.

Still being a student, the main problem i see with education is the unwillingness to learn. Students just don’t care and pumping money into the education program isn’t going to change this. You can spend all you want on education and if the students aren’t willing to learn it isn’t gonna make a damn.

Not for one second do i think that if more money was spent that i would have a better education.

Many years ago Wolf Blitzer reported that the average income of a republican delegate was 90,000 a year and the democrat was 45,000 a year. I did the math and I am a Democrat and most likely will die a democrat now the problem we had with Clintons we made to many people rich so we created to many republicans but the happy note is GW is now making us some new Democrats

This has been an interesting discussion. I don’t agree that the economy is that great. It is probably great if you are an oil company or a defense contractor. I know there are a large number of people in the fox valley who work at Kimberly Clark got their notices this week. I read the paper and I keep seeing huge places going out of business that are a major part of Wisconsin’s economy. Jobs that had good wages and health insurance. I have yet to see a headline with a new place opening looking for 500 new people with good wages and health insurance. I do know that the high cost of fuel makes it much more expensive to transport goods and services around the country. These are some facts for our right wing folks. The current republicans profess to be conservatives and accuse liberal democrats of being spendy. Bush has not vetoed one spending bill in his presidency. He has increased the size of government with the ungainly and ineffective Homeland security agency. He has squandered a budget surplus and spent like a sailor in Bangkok on his first liberty(no offense fishaholic). He has put forth the largest entitlement program since the 1960s in the prescription drug plan while grossly underestimating the costs of the program and their impacts on pharmacies and lining the pockets of the drug lobby. All of this has been done while professed shall I say false conservative republicans hold majorities in both houses of the federal government. If republicans are serious about conservatism they should vote these liars out of office. We still haven’t caught Osama or Mullah Omar or Ayman al Zawhatever. New Orleans is still a pile of rotting garbage and another hurricane season is upon us. Earlier this week Jon said the first thing I have ever agreed with him on. He is in favor of a draft and so am I. I am because rich young people do not serve and they enjoy more of the fruits of liberty than anyone. Until rich kids are sent to war and come home in body bags we will continue to send our less fortunate ones over there to die and those decision makers will not care about them because they volunteered and knew what they were getting into. On the subject of Iraq, there was an interesting section on 60 minutes regarding 8.8 billion in hundred dollar bills that is missing in Iraq. Your leaders are responsible. Bush’s approval ratings are in the toilet and I don’t see them getting any better. My houseboat is for sale because I can’t afford to pay the slip rent and drive to it on weekends anymore. This is partially my fault as I now have a family to support but high gas prices didn’t help. If Bush had been a CEO and ran a business like this he would have been fired long ago. I won’t even get into his lying about getting warrants for wiretaps which is a felony. I wonder what they would have done to Clinton had he committed a felony?

I understand what you are saying JLDII. And I agree with you that it doesn’t make sense to be giving the break to people with kids, for the extra couple of hundred, I assume, they get back, I would think it would not make that much of a difference if they got it back? All I know, is that wherever you look in the US, this ends up being a heated discussion amongst the people who have kids, and those that do not.

I hope everyone looks on this as a topic to learn rather than debate. As seen on some of the other threads, fishing and heated debate do not seem to get along

Bassman

Whiskerkev,
In this rant, you never once cite a “Fact.” You cite “Opinion.” You call names without basis. You call Conservatives “Liars” and recommend they be voted out of office. I don’t have to go past the last Democratic president to see who was last impeached for being a liar. Go ahead and rant. But if you do not want to look at the “FACTS” dont sit here and spout off about the “Other” party being liars, etc. Sweep under your own rug a little before you go off.
I am done with this, because as I said, the liberal arguement is based on “Feelings” and less on “Fact.” I for one don’t think people here in the good Ole USA are entitled to anything more that the right to live free and pursue happiness. If you people think that throwing money at problems and programs fixes things, forget it. It takes a concerted effort to change the way of thinking in this country. The idea of entitlement is a CROCK! What has the liberal thinking groups done in this country to stem the tide of gross abuse of the welfare system? There are generations now of welfare addicted families and neighborhoods and cities! The idea is if you have more kids, you get more money! You also get more kids in the school systems! That costs more! Everything costs more! How about changing the mentality of that type of thinking? Stop the handouts! Or should we start up another government program to hand out more?
My saying is “I don’t expect you to ever think my way, I just want to make you think!”
Our society will never improve if we continue to perpetuate this kind of thinking.
I am done. I don’t think I can add anything more constructive to this post.
Jon, Dave, TBO, Dave B, thanks for giving facts and figures that anyone can use to make up their own mind.
And yes, the ecomomy is good. That is why there is a lot of boat traffic in the classified forum!

After reading all these post and debating which side is right all I have to say is:

Quote:

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There are 3 things that are sure to start another damn fight on here Politics, Religion,and Bass.

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How dare you put Bass in the middle of this. If you do not like them than do not fish for them.

Ron

Chris,

once again in short terms. This administration has put forth the largest entitlement in 35 years. This is a fact and they did it without paying for it. They used our kids credit cards to do so to the tune of 27 thousand dollars for every man woman and child in this country. This is a fact. If we can’t have a civil discussion here where can it happen?

You need to be more clear. What entitlement? Where do your facts come from? Or is just something you feel?
I am not trying to be a dink. I am just curious.

To all the bass guys: I am sorry I brought bass into this mess. It will not happen again. If it does, you can flog me with a wet noodle

Does anyone want to go fishing on pool 2 on Saturday??? I have an open seat, don’t care if you are liberal, conservative, republican, democrate, male, female, gay, black, white, hispanic, asian, tall, short, fat, skinny, have a short leg, old, young, in between, have erectil disfunction, married, single, living with someone, farmer, construction worker, blue collar, white collar, no collar, Minnesota resident, Wisconsin resident, Iowa resident, US resident, legal alien, illegal alien, extraterrestial alien, or a bass fisherman. Please forgive me if I have forgotten any specific racial, social, or cultural group. Anyone want to fish with me????

PS: My boat is not for sale, but I have not stats to back that up.

Chris,

Whisker is correct on the entitlements. The medicare drug plan falls under that title. And he is also correct in saying it is a program way too expensive to be absorbed into the current budget. It is basically un-funded at this point. In other words, we are borrowing the money to pay for it. (Rather than increasing taxes)

And Whisker, I don’t necessarily disagree on a handful of your criticisms of the Bush Administration. Bigger government is not good and your point on Homeland security is valid.

-J.

I asked because I did not know what he was speaking of. Like I said, I was not trying to be a dink.

Quote:

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Does anyone want to go fishing on pool 2 on Saturday??? I have an open seat, don’t care if you are liberal, conservative, republican, democrate, male, female, gay, black, white, hispanic, asian, tall, short, fat, skinny, have a short leg, old, young, in between, have erectil disfunction, married, single, living with someone, farmer, construction worker, blue collar, white collar, no collar, Minnesota resident, Wisconsin resident, Iowa resident, US resident, legal alien, illegal alien, extraterrestial alien, or a bass fisherman. Please forgive me if I have forgotten any specific racial, social, or cultural group. Anyone want to fish with me????

PS: My boat is not for sale, but I have not stats to back that up.

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Jon,

How about the 128 billion dollars for the Iraq, is that on credit also???

PS: I was going to say “Not trying to be a dink” like Chris did, but you wouldn’t believe me, would you???

As long as we are discussing politics, why shouldn’t I be able to invest par tof my own social security money? Why are the Dems sooooo agaisnt this? Its been stated, and printed that anyone over 55 WOULD not be effected at all. I think I should be allowed to invest a portion of my social security as I see fit. Too many people pay into the system for years and years and die before ever collecting a dime of it, why shouldn’t their family be entitled to that money?

Quote:

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I for one don’t think people here in the good Ole USA are entitled to anything more that the right to live free and pursue happiness. If you people think that throwing money at problems and programs fixes things, forget it.

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Tuck, I’m usually the guy standing behind you and pointing over your shoulder saying “yeah!….yeah!….what he said!”
The Quote I posted above by you says it all. Thats the whole friggin point point here. Anyone care to disagree with that?
This is where I’m going to get jumped.
We all know what a stereotype is….
We all know that stereotyping is not always wrong….
To pigeon hole a person as Right or Left is wrong….
To pigeon hole yourself Right or Left is wrong….
To call yourself any other political jargon is wrong….
Don’t call me a Republican because I agree with defense funding.
Don’t call me a Democrat because I want world peace.
Don’t you dare title me anything.
I own a spinner bait, Don’t title me with Bass….
Its a huge problem to feel like you have 2 choices.
I just don’t like that kind of talk.

I was speaking with my future wives younger sister who was explaining to me that in their highschool, students can’t even take books home because they don’t have enough. Or how about not being able to make copies because paper isn’t cheap.
I’d like to chime in on this education debate and say what a mess.
I’ve been in college now for some time. I pay all my tuition out of my pocket. No loans or financial aid. I pay about $5500 per year. In my taxes I’ll get $2000 back every year. What is going here. You guys remember the day when not everyone was able to go to college? Well now everyone goes to college! And its crap! All this financial aid and federal funding for post secondary! Give me a break. You guys want money for K-12?….. Why should I get $2000 back? College students are complaining about rising tuition costs….. I say suck it up. I remember paying $125/credit.
In my 5 years its now around $180. I think thats wonderful. Post secondary education is waaaaayyyy over compensated in federal and state funding. I know theres some college kid saying “I don’t get those breaks”. You just havn’t seen them yet because of your loans and financial aid.
Education is crap right now.

Whats next here? Stem cell research?

And Now I see how we get off topic

What the heck, I have never been unemployed, I think I should be able to get all of that, that I have paid in, back, and buy a new truck. Ya, how come I can’t do that?????? Not sure if that is a republican or democrat thing…but why not??

Maybe we all need a 3rd party cantidate to run the country again, after all they were the founders of the social security system that our parents and grandparents rely on after they’ve retired and organized labor unions, they both have helped emmensely. Too many on each side pointing fingers and not thinking of the right solutions too solve the immediate problems it seems like. Too busy pointing and not enough time spent thinking?