I have not looked at the boats for sale forum for a while, but Holy Smokes there are a lot of them. Things must be going great with everyone upgrading. Or maybe things are bad and everyone needs to sell the rig? Or maybe I just got to much time on my hands to think about such things? I sure hope it is the first one.
EJ
EJ – economy’s doin’ pretty darn good, and yes, people are upgrading. Remember, this is Boat Show season – most people interested in a new rig have an old one to sell first. Maybe YOU need a new boat so you can think about such things as monster walleyes and not the economy? Hah! 
It helps a whole lot when you can sell a boat here for free. 
The economy is doing good!!?? Maybe, if you work for Bush or Cheney. Have you not seen what’s happening to our nations biggest companies? GM, Ford, the airlines. A lot of lost jobs there due to mostly outsourcing. Not trying to start a bash but that comment took me by surprise. I’m sure some people are flourishing under this president, but don’t put us middle classes in the same boat! 
I’m a middle classer…and doing well. I’ve been able to keep more of my paycheck over the past few years. Looking at my W-2’s…I’m keeping more than 5-6 years ago.
As far as the auto industry…the domestics have been playing catch-up for years and are finally starting to get it. They have to operate more efficiently and other auto companies are doing real well. I think the pensions and health care that the unions have negotiated over the years have hurt the domestic car companies.
The airlines are a whole different story. They have been suffering for many years…beyond this administration.
Brian, are you in need of a job? If so, good luck in the future!
That’s my $.02 worth.
edlem,
First of all, don’t assume what you don’t know! I didn’t mean this to be a bash or to pass judgment. The pensions and the health care negotiated in the past is what “our unions” fought for years ago, so don’t tell me it’s the unions fault!!!!
It’s quite clear where you stand, but don’t for one minute try and understand or try to, understand whats happening to our workforce! Look at the FACTS buddy! People are losing their jobs!!!!! Explain that!!!!!!!! 
NO edlem, I am not looking for a job. I’ll be honest and tell everybody that I work at Northwest Airlines in Minneapolis. People that know me understand that I have looked elswhere, and even posted about new oportunities. However, if you seen the latest news we said NO!!!!
Ground handlers, luggage tramps, ramp rats, whatever!,you want to say. We want what every other airline is being paid. I’ve suffered, my family has suffered, don’t try and bs your way throughg it….theres a problem! 
I apologize in advance to those I may have offended. Just my “0.2”. 
I am going to have to add that I too am keeping alot more of my money. I will conceed that GW hasn’t been the best President we have had, but he at least lets ME take care of ME with MY own money. I cannot stand it when a certain group wants to raise taxes to take care of everyone. I can take careof myself just fine. It doesn’t take a village to raise a child, it takes a good mother and father with good morals and work ethic who are raped financially by those looking to provide for those unable to provide for themselves.
I did not intend to imply that my morals are better than anyone elses, nor did I intend to insult anyone. The great thing about this country is we all are free to make choices and we are all free to speak our mind. Our economy is doing fine, in fact better than it has in years past. Do not blame the airline and big three car Mfg woes on the economy. There are too many other indicators to prove it is doing very well.
One more parting thought. If you really think things are that bad here, try spending some time in another country. Doesn’t much matter which one, you will be hard pressed to find it better anywhere else.
Brian, please watch the personal attacking. He was (As you were) stating his observations as he sees them. We all know (And can probably sympathize with..) about what is going on with NWA and the automotive industry. I work in the printed circuit board industry. I have watched the flood gates open and business jump on ships to China for the last 10 years. It started during the Clinton Admin. and this President doesn’t see the need to stem the tide either. Many MANY US circuit board shops have shut their doors. Yet the economy as a whole seems to grow here in the US. We as a country keep finding ways to improve the economy, and reform our labor force. I am having to do it as we speak.
NWA is a fresh scab, and obviously it was pretty close to home for you, but please watch the personal part…
Thanks!
Tuck
Brian first, no personal attacks. I edited your comments to edlem. Second, let’s look at the facts. The economy is chugging along very well.
Economic Growth Continues
Almost 5 Million Jobs Created Since August 2003
Today, The Government Released New Jobs Figures – 243,000 Jobs Created In February. The economy created 243,000 jobs in February and has created about 2.1 million jobs over the past 12 months – and almost 5 million since August 2003. The unemployment rate is 4.8 percent – lower than the average of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.
The Economy Is Strong And Continues To Grow
GDP Growth Is Strong. Real GDP increased 3.5 percent in 2005, and growth was revised up from an original estimate of 1.1 percent to a 1.6 percent annual rate for the fourth quarter of 2005. The economy has been growing for 17 straight quarters, and the composite index of leading indicators increased 1.1 percent in January, indicating continued economic growth. In the last five years, the President’s tax relief has helped spur growth by keeping $880 billion in the hands of the American people. The Administration has reduced the growth of non-security discretionary spending every year since 2001, and at the President’s request, Congress cut this spending last year.
State Unemployment Rates Fall. As of January, the unemployment rate is now at a record low in five states: Nevada, Florida, West Virginia, Montana, and Idaho. Over the past year, unemployment rates have decreased in 46 states.
Incomes Increase. Real disposable incomes have risen 2.2 percent over the past 12 months. Since January 2001, real after-tax income per person has risen 8.2 percent. Real household net worth is at an all-time high of $51.1 trillion, and the median net worth of American households rose 1.5 percent between 2001 and 2004.
Manufacturing Expansion Continues. The Institute for Supply Management (ISM), a private research group, reports manufacturing activity grew for the 33rd consecutive month in February. The ISM’s manufacturing index reading of 56.7 indicates continued sector expansion. According to the Federal Reserve, over the past 12 months total industrial production rose 3.1 percent and manufacturing industrial production rose 4.5 percent, including 0.7 percent in January.
Inflation Remains Contained. The core Consumer Price Index (CPI) rose just 0.2 percent in January. Core CPI has increased a moderate 2.1 percent over the past 12 months, indicating core inflation remains contained.
Retail Sales Rise. Nominal retail sales rose 2.3 percent in January and are up 8.8 percent over the past 12 months. In January, real consumer spending posted a solid 0.4 percent gain and increased 3.6 percent over the past year.
Service Sector Grows. The ISM reports non-manufacturing business activity grew for the 35th consecutive month in February. The ISM’s business activity index reading of 60.1 indicates continued sector growth.
Productivity Growth Continues. During the past four quarters, productivity has increased 2.5 percent. Productivity has grown at a 3.4 percent annual rate since the business-cycle peak in the first quarter of 2001.
Housing Starts Reach Highest Level In Over 30 Years. Housing starts in January totaled a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 2.276 million units – up 14.5 percent from December and the highest level in over 30 years.
-J.
Does anybody think that the War in Iraq has artificially inflated the people now working ? By ways of producing more products to support the effort and by hundreds of thousands of troops being taken out of the work force, to fight the war and support it here in the states at the bases ? I think this is a common trend you see, when a country is at war any length of time. What happens if and when this war is over ? Thousands will be coming back, will they have jobs ? I know this happened during the Vietnam war. Anybody ?
Big g 
Brian,
You aren’t going to convince these Bushites that there is anything wrong with the economy. Even though we all actually have less to live on, the prices have gone up, and jobs have been lost. They have the standard republican numbers put out by the party, and they hold them to be the word of god. I just have to think that this is how it is supposed to feel when times are good. I sure am happy that all the rich people in this country are happy, it really makes me feel good to know that. I am also very happy for the oil companies that have taken advantage of the working class so they can line their pockets, that really makes me feel good. You know they used to equate big business, huge profits, and rich people with the republican party, but that must not be so, because I am not a republican, and I feel really good about all that……..
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Brian,
You aren’t going to convince these Bushites that there is anything wrong with the economy. Even though we all actually have less to live on, the prices have gone up, and jobs have been lost.
Here we go…I was ondering when you were going to jump in and stir the pot. OK, I’ll bite.
Am I supposed to have more reverence for you because YOU chose to live and earn a wage for less than you believe you are worth? You refer to Republicans as “The Rich”, and model yourself and your “Democratic” following the honorable working poor? Come on now! Pardon me for thinking philisophically that I know how to spend my money better than my government. If you don’t like where you are on the pay scale, do something about it.
The numbers Jon posted are the bible. It is what we base many decicions on in this country. Interest rates and inflation numbers are controlled by what is listed there. Democrats themselves use them to further their agenda when it fits THEIR model. As I mentioned, the US economy is constantly changing. That is a HUGE testament to American ingenuity and moxy! There is a class that will lay down and say “My government has the responsibility to take care of me” and whine about government programs being cut. There are others out there opening their own businesses, putting their hard earned money on the line, and flying or dying due to their own efforts. Not due to “Programs” offering hand outs. I guess the owners of these upstart businesses are the “Rich” you speak of. I refer to them as the brave!
We will never agree from a philisophical standpoint on this. As you had mentioned, we cannot even agree on what statistics to use. Jon was kind enough to list and cite concrete sources. You on the other hand in an effort to distort those facts throw out hyperbole and conjecture without hard facts. But you stand behind your statements as if they are some magic bullet. Yep. You will not convince this “Bushite” with your type of thinking. 
Chris,
First, I am not a democrate…and when you assume I am that proves the theory that this two party type of government we have is always at odds with itself…Second, you say we can’t agree on stats, and yet you say that Jon’s numbers are the right ones…The rhetoric continues. I am not one that thinks the government or anyone else should take care of me, another wrong assumption. Third, as far as my job goes, I have never complained about the money I make, or the job itself….another wrong assumption. As with most political discussions, most of our assumptions are inaccurate. I never talk numbers, because as you have stated, none of them can ever be agreed upon, so when someone uses them it is only to bolster their point of view. I only go by the feeling that I have about what I see. I see people out of work, I see more people struggling to make ends meet, I see education going down the toilet, I see our government borrowing more money to support policies that have money going to places that don’t matter to the people I live around, I see health care costs getting prohibitive for more Americans(the poor and elderly)…….I just see so many things that should not be in a country that prides itself on being the richest, and the most educated country in the world….Republican or Democrate…..whoever you are, makes no matter… what matters is that we take care of the people of this country..all the prople. This is not happening…you can stand back and throw out numbers, you can support what ever political party you want to…but what really matters is how we treat the people that are Americans, that work hard for this country, that build and maintain the culture, traditions, and social framework…Please don’t make assumptions about me or my motives….do I stir the pot..YES I DO, this is the balance Chris……”Reality, man what a concept”
not Reality again… 
Wouldn’t be great if more people understood it?…….To quote Frazier Crane “Cliff, what color is the sky in your world”
First of all let me start out by apologizing about my post. I obviously ticked someone off, although I don’t think I was attacking anybody , just responding to edlem, responding to me!
I guess we can agree to disagree. After all this is a fishing site and I’m sorry the thread turned ugly. What exactly did you edit?
Again I apologize! edlem’s post felt like an attack on me with the cute little ending and I took offense.
How in the heck did we go from buying and selling boats to this garbage? There are 3 things that are sure to start another damn fight on here Politics, Religion,and Bass. There has got to be another place to bicker like old hens about the government. Sheesh, reality is overrated By the way, the sky is blue at this point in time 
Guys,
I must apologize for my poorly titled thread. I was just surfing around with cabin fever getting pumped up about summer fishing when I looked in the boats for sale forum and found the number listed quite amazing. As previously posted it is a credit to this site that those listings are both free and easily accessible. While the discussion has been entertaining, I did not mean to stir things up about politics when there are too many boating and fishing preparations to discuss. Wow, aren’t there a lot of boats listed for sale! 
EJ
1) the economy is doing great, you cant argue with the facts. If anyone disagrees, please give some data to support, I am all ears.
2) the airlines as an industry HAVE NEVER MADE MONEY. How mnay industries can survive if all they do is lose and lose and lose. It isnt any parties fault that NWA and other airlines are suffering, it is the airlines fault. They refuse to change their business model and become viable. Sure, some airlines are successful, but they understand low cost flying and fuel hedging.
3) Sure, jobs are being lost and others are being created. For those who being things are bad, how can you explain very low unemployment with income growth. The press and Democrats always talk about the shrinking middle class, I have searched and searched for data, it doesnt exist.
I bought my boat during the Clinton administration, and am about to list it for sell during the Bush administration. I can sell it for more than I still owe on it ….so which party do I give credit too?
I wish someone would delete this post, It’s not doing anything but making people angry!!!! I have a ton of things to say about this topic, but it won’t do any good. People will believe what they want to believe and that’s our right! Two things you don’t discuss is religion and politics.I totally respect everybody’s opinions and will not pass judgement as to ones character. After all, if we didn’t have cabin fever this post never would have turned sour, so let’s have a beer and put on some new fishing line! 
OK, I give up, “What is the average tax dollars spend per pupil for Education here in MN?”
On a serious note now. Many of the problems with our economy stem from how the government dictates taxing and use of those taxes.
Prime example would be social security. As it is there is a $90,000 cap on SS. Anyone who makes more than $90,000/year doesn’t pay SS taxes. If that cap were raised to something like $1M/year, and those making more than that were taxed accordingly up to that $1M level, things in this country would be much better.
As for education….well maybe that could be approached more as a user fee. Instead of parents claiming a standard tax DE-duction for every child they have they could pay a tax IN-crease to the state for the funding of the public schools while their children are between the ages of 6 and 18 and using those schools. Then they can afford all the child care facilities at the schools and the fancy multi choice menus the school cafaterias offer, and bussing from across the street, and computers in every class with no more than 5 students per teacher,…..etc!
What I’m tring to say is that moneys dedicated for education should be used for “just” that…education. Not all the other things that that money is used for today. If kids aren’t getting an education today, it has more to do with what the schools are actually using the money for.
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It’s not doing anything but making people angry!!!!
Brian…I kinda of enjoy reading the Michael Moore Chronicals….
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3) Sure, jobs are being lost and others are being created. For those who being things are bad, how can you explain very low unemployment with income growth. The press and Democrats always talk about the shrinking middle class, I have searched and searched for data, it doesnt exist.
DO THESE SHRINKING UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS COME FROM ACTUAL PEOPLE BEING UNEMPLOYED OR JUST THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT APPLYING FOR UNEMPLOYMENT ?
IT GET’S SPUN EITHER WAY DEPENDING ON WHAT PARTY YOU ARE HEARING IT FROM.
NEITHER PARTY IS WORTH A DARN
THATS ALL
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OK, I give up, “What is the average tax dollars spend per pupil for Education here in MN?”
The average is $6,236 per pupil, but as high as $14,446 in some districts.
Note that the average in Minnesota is among the highest in the country and over %50 of the entire Minnesota state annual budget.
-J.
The employment rate is the percentage employed as a percent of the workforce. This is calculated using a survey of at least 60,000 households by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The initial jobless claims and continuing claims is what measures the amount of people seeking unemployment insurance. This data comes from the Dept of Labor.
Both are different and completely separate, but both show a strong economy.
Jack-I think we know what you meant, but just to clarify, people making over $90,000 dont pay social security on the amount in excess of $90,000. They do pay tax on the amount up to $90,000.
Also, employers need to match that tax. In theory, it is money that you will get back. So if you uncap that, employers will pay more in taxes for higher wage employees and they will get more back at retirement. It really wont equal things out, it will likely result in lower wages for all to cover the additional tax.
The graduated tax rates ensure that more that the amount of the Social Security tax is getting to the Govt. No one is getting off the hook, they just receive less benefits later.
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