Pool 4, catch ‘n release only, Mar 24 – Apr 24????

What if pool 4 was CPR (that’s catch, photo and release for you meat hunters) only over the month or so of spawning? Obviously this is all about CIVIL debate but say MN, WI, IA, etc put their heads together and gave this a try for say 3 years……. I wonder what it might produce in say 6 years? It’s my opinion that the gizzard shad I’ve seen the past few years could provide adequate forage base. Opinions welcome or is this a little too sensitive? Kurt

Edit – sure wish I had spell check (once again!)

look out in 3 years, you could walk across the backs of them.

I’ve seen this same post kicked around several times in the past few years. This website has promoted CPR since it inception…EFN/Fish the River.

I fish Pool#4 mainly late March/early April and November. I don’t fish on weekends but I RARELY see big females kept and have witnessed dozens released. My friends and I catch many big females that we CPR…so far I’d say this fishery is not short of incredible.
The WI and MInn DNR doesn’t see an adverse effect with the year-round pressure(which amazes me )…if fact have maintained unusually high(Wis) bag limits compared to elsewhere. The Sauger fishery is doing so well they are ever-relaxing size limits here.
Now I live 300 miles NW and look at Green Bay where 22″ and over slot limit pressures have all but wiped out the 18-21″ class walleyes.
I’m sure you will get a lot of attention on this.

Tom – I hope your right in that there are a lot of people willing to share their opinion. I respect all opinions as we ALL make this planet great!

Realize I never said the fishery was in trouble or was of poor quality but I always wonder what it could be like….. Rainy River regulations come to mind……

I would be all for it.Do you think the dam area would get over populated with small sauger?I understand that there is enough bait fish for them to feed on,but will the mature fish have a chance.How about a slot limit during those dates,I think we still need to harvest some of the small fish so it dose not get out of hand and over populated.Just my 2 cents.

the problem is the border water one side would close and the other would stay open,back in the 70’s and late 60’s they could never get to stay closed on either side,but catch and release is the way it should be until spawning is done,or just closed like the rest of the state.i fish early season to but i think it should be closed. its good now just think if was closed for a couple months. just my 2 cents..

Good thought Tony! Maybe protect 23″ over fish during the spawn…encourage people to harvest more Sauger “eaters”.

There have been many tests and experiments run on the river since the 30’s when the locks and dams were constructed by the Corps of Engineers.
Quote:
In 1930, after extensive studies by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Congress again authorized a new project on the Upper Mississippi River. This project authorized the Corps to create a navigation channel with a minimum depth of 9 feet and a minimum width of 400 feet. To do this the Corps began constructing 29 locks and dams between St. Paul and St. Louis. In addition to building the Lock and Dam system, dredging was also used, and still is, to keep the channel at 9 feet.

“The locks and dams create “pools” in the river.” “The locks act as steps by which vessels are lifted or lowered from one pool to the next, while pools themselves remain practically level.”

During the “Industrial Revolution” of the 50’s through the 70’s the River took a beating. So bad that the stretch between the Hastings Dam, and Prescott WI was devoid of wildlife by 1973.

After that, the States of MN and WI decided to impose heavy fines for non-compliancs to pollution requirements. The River pools changed dramatically! Limits have been imposed to try to maintain a viable fishery based on the biomass availabe.
In my humble opinion, after reviewing the availabe data, current limits are at acceptable levels. They have been proven by many studies conducted on the upper pools of the Mississippi.
So, that being said, I do not see any reason to go “Catch and release” for Pools 4 and down.
Tuck

I don’t think a CPR season is the answer. Most of the mortality of the walleye/sauger this time of the year is due to fish caught from deep water not kept fish. I think most of the female walleyes are already volunteerily relased. If I go out and catch and realease a 100 fish from deep water and the mortality rate is, say, 30 percent then I just killed 30 fish without bringing a fish home.
My two cents.

Maybe pool 4 could be improved with some more tinkering. However, right now you have a very good shot at landing a 10+ lb walleye and bringing home a nice bunch of eaters every time you go out.

A closed season during the times mentioned would probably hurt Everts and the folks who guide down there badly. All catch and release during those same times would still hurt those folks too. I think the way it is right now is working very well. And as someone already mentioned a ton of people are already voluntarily catching and releasing the big females.

dd

Gator, you just nailed it right on the head.

In modern times, with the enourmous popularity of CPR, mortality on released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them does, according to numerous studies and surveys.

So strictly statistically speaking, making it CPR, while possibly adding more small or medium size fish, would not increase the numbers of large fish. The only way you could do that is to simply close it to fishing.

I personally rarely keep fish, but I admit I do KILL fish. Stresses of being caught and handled are very high, especially on bigger fish. This is why I never, ever, talk bad about anyone who does choose to keep any legal fish. The fact that I release does not guarantee the survival of that fish, and in fact quite the opposite, it does almost guarantee I at least shortened the lifespan of that fish.

My personal opinion is that conversation efforts are much better suited to focusing on eliminating pollution and increasing water quality in general (i.e. less waterside development, dumping, etc.), eliminating invasive species, and other long-term or permanent-term efforts like that.

The thing is, an individual fish is not permanent. It will die, of something. And in the old Miss, they die pretty young (relative to northern lakes). For those reasons, I always view CPR as more of a temporary solution.

Note that I’m speaking of walleyes/saugers here, and my thoughts also apply to all our species of bass and sunfish. My beliefs are different for other species, including Northern, Musky, Sturgeon, etc.

After rereading my post I realized that I left it incomplete. I stated what I didn’t think work work to increase numbers/quality of the fishing on the river but I didn’t add what I believe is essential for continued fishing success.
I most definitely believe the answer is in education. Fifteen or twenty years ago catch and release was was an almost unheard of practice. Now, thankfully, it is mostly a daily practice. Yet, I believe, there are far too many 24-27 inch walleyes kept. With so many smaller fish out there I see no need to keep these fish for the table. Remember guys big fish come from big fish genes. I realize that it is every fisherman’s right to keep up to their limit of any walleye over 15 inches but the simple fact is if a walleye is going to reach it’s full potential then it will have to CPR’ed at some point in it’s lifetime. The chance of a walleye in an area such as pool #4 with all it’s fishing pressure reaching true trophy staus without every being caught at least once by a fisherman is very doubtful.
Along with catch and release it is very important to handle the fish in a way to give it the best chance to survive being caught. Use tackle sufficient to catch the fish without undo stress on it. Use your net gently as to not harm the fish. When holding a bigger fish for a picture be sure to stabilize the body with your hand. Make sure to not damage the gills of the fish when holding it. Get it back into the water as soon as possible.

There’s my two cents on the subject. Just remember guys when you catch that thirty incher it is most likely because somebody else caught and released it in a safe and effective manner. Why not return the favor!! If that is done we will all benefit greatly.

I’d be all for a “15 inch minimum and 1 fish over X (22-24?) inches” type limit, or even a well-managed slot. I typically only keep 2 to 4 16-18″ers anyway, and never anything over 20″ or so.

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mortality on released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them does, according to numerous studies and surveys.

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Please provide a reference to any study that shows this. Mortality rates on released fish is often pegged at LESS than 10%. Mortality on “kept” fish is 100%.

i’ve been fishing pool 4 for over 30 years, YES 30 (THIRTY) YEARS, and way back when the fishing was excelent, today the fishing is even better, with more quality fish.
my .02 cents is lets not regulate just to regulate, it’s not broke so there’s nothing to fix.
just go out and enjoy the great fishing and leave your troubles behind

Hi James, here is a sampling of studies, there are many more, you can just Google them.

The equation is really simple, say for walleys >25″, you can use this with the people you know, just fill the number you catch per 10 hours of fishing, the number you release, and the number you keep, here’s how mine works out:

#caught | #C&R | #harvest
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2 | 2 | 0
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mort.rate | 5% | 100%
———————————
fish kill | 0.1 | 0
=================================

So, that means I kill one walleye greater than 25″ every ten fishing trips due to mortality, given a 5% mortality rate. I kill zero from harvesting because I don’t keep those fish. But let’s say we have a tournament, 75 boats, 150 fisherman, 50% of the boats bring limits, the other half bring half-limits, it is a C&R tourny, but we all know the fish that anglers choose to weigh in are not exactly “immediately returned to the water” after de-hooking, dramatically increasing mortality rates (as the studies linked to below clearly show – for every two minutes the fish is in captivity, the mortality rate jumps), you can quickly see that even though the tourny is C&R, the number of fish killed can be very significant.

Please, please, don’t get the wrong idea. Without any doubt whatsoever, C&R is a good thing, there is no question. But when you have a large percentage of anglers already practicing C&R, the laws of dimishing returns sets in with setting more regulations. I mean guys, seriously, who keeps big walleyes? I honestly do not know anybody that does, with the exception of a once-or-twice in a lifetime true trophy for the wall. Education has done this, in my opinion, not regulation.

Studies:

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/recreational/articles/crmortalityresearch.html

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/Fisheries/Alagnak/catch_and_release.htm

http://www.fish-wisconsin.com/articles/My%20objective%20of%20this%20article%20is%20to%20educate%20both%20Tournament.pdf

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/09/26_baxtera_fishstory/

I don’t think that the links you provided are analagous to what we are talking about here on Pool 4, or any pool on the river. Trout, Sea Bass, perch of different varieties, Stripers…All fish that come out of different bodies of water, and we don’t have enough informations as to temp, depth, etc. It doesn’t appear scientific, more so someones interpretation of what they see. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Your walleye link addresses tournament fishing, and it points its finger at lack on O2 in livewells as the major contributor to the demise of the fish in their study. That is not what is at issue with this post…I don’t think. The MN DNR has been doing mortality studies this year, and to the best of my knowledge, there was extremely low mortality in the fish caught. I have not seen the end results yet.
Tuck

ok

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mortality on released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them does, according to numerous studies and surveys.

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I’m really sorry as I don’t mean to come off as contentious here, but your arguement just doesn’t hold up. In order for the impact of delayed mortality to equal mortality caused from creeling a fish, delayed mortality would have to be 100%. It is far from it. Your claim that “released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them” is mathmatically impossible once we agree that not all released fish die.

But enough about that…. CPR is a fantastic way to make a personal descision to be thoughtful about the size and quantity of fish kept and certainly gives another angler a “chance” at tha tsame fish down the road that would not exist if the fish went home the first time it was boated.

I would however agree with you about habitat and water quality improvments being the #1 thing we can do to improve the quality of our walleye fishery. IF we could ever get the Minnesota River to stop dumping massive quantities of silt into the Mississippi River I think we’d see a major improvement in fishing for all species.

I agree. I don’t mean to hijack your post, and I definitely don’t mean to call you a liar! Far from it! I think what you are saying is that if you catch X amount of fish, that Y amount are going to die. I have a hard time seeing that in the scientific facts. The supporting documentation is not taking my pea sized brain from point A to point B. There is no doubt that fish are going to die after being caught. I don’t think anyone disputes that. Fish also die of natural causes. Probably (And I have no data to back this up!)many more than do from being caught.

You are right sir about the Minnesota river. And if we really want to see continued improvements in the watershed we need to get on our legislators to back 3/16 or 1/4 or whatever the percentage is today for permanent funding for clean water initiatives.

dd

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mortality on released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them does, according to numerous studies and surveys.

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I’m really sorry as I don’t mean to come off as contentious here, but your arguement just doesn’t hold up. In order for the impact of delayed mortality to equal mortality caused from creeling a fish, delayed mortality would have to be 100%. It is far from it. Your claim that “released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them” is mathmatically impossible once we agree that not all released fish die.

But enough about that…. CPR is a fantastic way to make a personal descision to be thoughtful about the size and quantity of fish kept and certainly gives another angler a “chance” at tha tsame fish down the road that would not exist if the fish went home the first time it was boated.

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James,
I think the point he’s trying to make is that overall more fish are killed on the river by CPR than by anglers practicing CFE (catch, fillet, eat), not that the survival rate of fish caught by either method are any higher or lower. Obviously a kept fish is going to die, but a released fish may not, and if 90% of anglers practice CPR it may cause more mortality on the river. Took me a few minutes to figure that out. Personally, i’ll C&R a big eye simply b/c of the levels of methylmercury, polychlorinated biphenols, dioxins, atrazine, and other large toxic organic molecules chemists have yet to detect and identify. If the fish lives, great. If not, something else will eat it.

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mortality on released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them does, according to numerous studies and surveys.

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I’m really sorry as I don’t mean to come off as contentious here, but your arguement just doesn’t hold up. In order for the impact of delayed mortality to equal mortality caused from creeling a fish, delayed mortality would have to be 100%. It is far from it. Your claim that “released fish kills far more large fish than keeping them” is mathmatically impossible once we agree that not all released fish die.

But enough about that…. CPR is a fantastic way to make a personal descision to be thoughtful about the size and quantity of fish kept and certainly gives another angler a “chance” at tha tsame fish down the road that would not exist if the fish went home the first time it was boated.

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James,

I think the point he’s trying to make is that overall more fish are killed on the river by CPR than by anglers practicing CFE (catch, fillet, eat), not that the survival rate of fish caught by either method are any higher or lower. Obviously a kept fish is going to die, but a released fish may not, and if 90% of anglers practice CPR it may cause more mortality on the river. Took me a few minutes to figure that out. Personally, i’ll C&R a big eye simply b/c of the levels of methylmercury, polychlorinated biphenols, dioxins, atrazine, and other large toxic organic molecules chemists have yet to detect and identify. If the fish lives, great. If not, something else will eat it.

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I considered that this might be his point. I don’t agree that more big fish are killed by CPR than by catch and kill anglers.

Gator Hunter is local and he’s seen alot of the recent abuses so maybe he’ll back me here. Go down to the Bay City campground any time during the summer and check out what’s being kept and cleaned. We’ve got a couple guides from Lake City that will toss back a 18″ walleye to keep a 6 Lber and for as much as CPR has really caught on, we still see a BUNCH of big fish go home for the pan. Delayed mortality of big fish following a release isn’t killing more big fish than meat hunters.

It is true I know some people who would rather keep one 9 LBer than a limit of 18 inchers. I saw a guy at the launch last year with a honest thirty incher and all he said was it would bake up real nice. When those big girls move up into a few of those vunerable areas they are a pretty easy target for people. Sadly greed seems to take over in some people. They choose to fill their freezers with these fish. Again, I know it is perfectly legal to keep your limit of any fish over 15 inches.
As I said earlier, thankful it is getting a lot better than in past years. Heck when I was a child if it was legal it was coming home. That is just the way it was.

One thing that I think saves a lot of big walleyes is that the people with the dedication to learn enough about walleyes to cositantly catch larger fish have developed the respect for the sport and the understanding that CPR is a must for the future of fishing.