Viking fans will regret this day!

  • skhartke
    Somerset, WI
    Posts: 1416
    #430241

    Pighunter,
    I agree with you 100%. The only reason the Vikes don’t want Culpepper this year is because of his disatisfaction. If he didn’t start sending e-mails, he would still be a Viking. This stuff about the boat cruise, etc. come on. Getting a lap dance means that he is of poor moral fiber? Than so am I. I’m not saying that the boat cruise, as it ended up, was a great idea, but if what those guys are being charged with was the worst thing that happened there, than it shouldn’t be a story. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. Culpepper is a very good QB. If you want to say that his knee is the reason to get rid of him, I’ll listen. But to say you need to get rid of him because he is a bad person, than that’s just ridiculous, IMHO.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430262

    I found much of this info on another site, so don’t think I’m some kind of statistic freek!!

    Culpepper has been the most productive QB in NFL history. When you account for his rushing numbers, his production has been absolutely phenomenal. Over his career, Culpepper has 164 total TDs in 81 games, an average of more than 2 TDs per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history:

    Marino (429 in 242 games, an average of 1.77)
    Favre (408 in 225 games, an average of 1.81)
    PManning (253 in 128 games, an average of 1.97)
    KWarner (121 in 73 games, an average of 1.65)

    In short, Culpepper is the most prolific TD scoring QB on a per game basis in NFL history.

    Next, look at total yards (rushing and passing). Culpepper has 22,639 total yards in 81 games, an average of 279.5 yards per game. Compare that to the greatest QBs (production-wise) in NFL history:

    Marino (61448 in 242 games, an average of 254 yards per game)
    Favre (55360 in 225 games, an average of 246 yards per game)
    PManning (33854 in 128 games, an average of 264.5 yards per game)
    KWarner (19474 in 73 games, an average of 266.7 yards per game)

    So Culpepper is also the most productive QB in terms of yards from scrimmage in NFL history on a per game basis.

    Then compare his INTs to the aforementioned guys. Culpepper has 86 in 81 games, an average of 1.06 per game.

    Marino (1.04 per game)
    Favre (1.13 per game)
    PManning (1.015 per game)
    KWarner (1.07 per game)

    So Daunte is the most productive QB (on a per game basis) in NFL history in terms of both yards and TDs. His interception rate is comparable to or better than any of the guys that are even close (and they’re not that close).
    His completion percentage of 64.4 is the second-best in NFL history. And that is not in a dink-and-dunk West Coast offense. It’s not terribly surprising, as he holds the single season NCAA record for completion percentage at 73.4%. That is with a vertical passing game. In 2004 he completed an incredible 17 of 34 passes thrown more than 31 yards from scrimmage in the air. And no, it was not because of jump balls to Moss — Moss caught only 3 of them.
    Physically, he has a lot more size and speed than any QB should be allowed to have. He’s the size of a DE and runs like a fullback. His rushing numbers are second only to Michael Vick among QBs.

    Below are my responses to the criticisms I hear from the Culpepper haters:

    The Fumbles

    Yes, he does fumble a lot. However, even if you treat the fumbles as interceptions, his numbers are still great. A rushing attempt is akin to a completed pass, albeit usually a short one. They usually come on passing downs and are positive yardage plays. If you look at combined rushing and passing numbers and treat each rushing attempt as a pass attempt and a completion, each rushing TD as a passing TD, and each fumble as an interception, Culpepper’s adjusted rating comes out to 92.6, which is a little below Payton Manning’s adjusted career rating of 94.3, but is above Carson Palmer (90.9). Marino’s career adjusted rating is 86.7. People keep citing to the total fumbles numbers, as opposed to fumbles lost, which is really the relevant number. He’s lost an average of about 5 fumbles per season, which is about 2-3 more than most other QBs. Also, part of the reason Culpepper fumbles is that he runs with the ball, i.e., he actually gets tackled while holding the ball 100+ times per year. If the average RB had those carries instead of Culpepper, he’d fumble a few times too.

    The Boat

    Give me a break. He is charged with getting a lap dance and touching the dancer’s tushy. Are you such prudes that you find that to be outrageous conduct? Do you think no other NFL players, or even ordinary people get lap dances?

    The Moss

    Culpepper’s great numbers are not because of Randy Moss — any more than Montana/Young were products of Rice. Or any more than Manning is a product of Harrison. Almost every great QB has had some great WRs. In 2004, Moss missed 3 games and was just a decoy in 2 others. In those 5 games, Culpepper completed 113 of 166 passes (68%) for 1179 yards, 9 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to a QB rating of 99. In other games, he was hurt and simply didn’t do much. For that season, if you exclude passes thrown to Moss, he completed 330 of 463 passes (71.3%), for 3950 yards and 26 TDs. Even if you assume that none of his INTs were on passes thrown to Moss, which is doubtful, his QB rating excluding Moss was 105.9. Moreover, Moss clearly didn’t make Kerry Collins into the Pro Bowler this year, even though he was opposite other quality WRs.

    The 2005 INTs

    Culpepper had a very bad start to 2005. He had 8 picks in the first 2 games, but had 6 TDs and 4 INTs in the 4 games after that. He was playing for a new OC, with a new set of receivers and an OL that had lost its anchor, Pro Bowl center Matt Birk. The OL was really struggling — he was sacked 31 times in just over 6 games. You can’t disregard his career numbers based on 2 bad games at the start of the season. Even the best QBs will occasionally have a 3-4 INT game.

    The Playoffs

    True, Minnesota has not been a great team since he’s been there, but they have consistently had one of the 5-6 worst defenses in the NFL. From 2000-04, the Vikes never had a defense that was better than 25th in the NFL. Even Marino had better defenses in the late 80s and early 90s. With a few exceptions, Minnesota had unremarkable running games during that time (especially if you exclude Culpepper’s rushing numbers). Still, the Vikes were 39-41 during that time period, which is comparable to Marino’s record from 1986-89 when the Fins defenses were bad (30-33). We all know that even a great QB cannot win with a bad defense.
    When he’s been in the playoffs, he’s 2-2. His career playoff numbers are pretty respectable — 73/134, 980 yds, 8 TDs and 5 INTs (82.3 rating). He had one terrible game against the Giants in 2001, a mediocre one against the Eagles in 2004, and two very good ones against the Saints in ’01 and the Packers in ’04 (total of 36/60, 618 yds, 7 TDs, 0 INTs).

    The Money

    Daunte was due to make $2 million this year. The 3 years after this one, Culpepper was due to make around $6 million per year, which isn’t much for an upper echelon QB. Some are offended that he reportedly asked for more money, but it isn’t clear that he did. His agent did, and then got fired for it. The Vikings owner had publicly said that he would re-evaluate Daunte’s contract after this past season, so it wouldn’t have been unusual for Daunte to expect him to do that.

    The Backups

    Some people argue that the fact that his backups have had success in Minnesota means he is a product of the system. When they make this argument, they usually selectively ignore the numbers of his backups who did not play well. Even so, the reality is that a lot of QBs will do well in a good offensive system, with a decent OL and some talent around him. The Viking backups success is hardly unique. Take a look at the QB ratings of the following backups, with the starter in parentheses:

    Steve Young (Montana) 108.9
    Steve Bono (Montana) 88.5
    Jeff Kemp (Montana) 85.7
    Scott Mitchell (Marino) 91.4
    Craig Erickson (Marino) 86.3
    Elvis Grbac (Young) 87.9
    Jeff Garcia (Young) 89.9
    Frank Reich (Kelly) 102.3
    Jim Sorgi (Manning) 99.1
    Matt Cassel (Brady) 89.4
    Marc Bulger (Warner) 101.5
    Trent Green (Warner) 101.8
    Bernie Kosar (Aikman) 92.7
    Rodney Peete (Aikman) 102.5
    Jason Garrett (Aikman) 83.3
    Billy Volek (McNair) 87.4

    In addition to those, you have guys like Brooks, Brunell and Hasselbeck who looked good as backups to Favre and drew a lot in trades/FA. Same for Feeley behind McNabb.

    None of this means that Culpepper (or any of the QBs listed in parentheses above) are not great QBs. They are. Culpepper has put up incredible numbers and is a proven commodity.

    The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was NOT because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses?

    Intelligence

    First, and not that it is necessarily a true measure of intelligence, but Culpepper scored a 21 on the Wonderlic. This is better than Marino (14), McNabb (16), McNair (15), and a point less than Brett Favre (22). Obviously, the Wonderlic is not a foolproof indicator of the ability to understand NFL defenses.

    What are good indicators of the ability to make decisions and read defenses is performance on 3rd downs, when blitzed, and in the red zone. On 3rd downs, NFL teams basically know you are passing and the defenses are at their most creative to stop the pass. Performance on blitzes shows the QBs ability to make decisions under pressure and find the open man in a very short time. Performance in the red zone shows what he can do with a short field in critical situations.

    In 2004, Culpepper’s performance on 3rd down and blitzes was phenomenal. On 3rd downs, he completed 93 of 134 (69.4%), for 1391 yards, 19 TDs and 3 INTs, which comes out to an absurd QB rating of 133.7. That year, on blitzes, he completed 101 of 159 (63.5%), for 1217, 15 TDs and 1 INT, which is a 115.7 rating. In the red zone, he completed 54 of 88 for 352 yards, 26 TDs and 2 INTs, for a rating of 158.2 (the maximum). These types of numbers simply are not possible if you can’t read defenses and make good decisions. Do people think that every defense he faced was pure vanilla?

    Yes, last year he struggled, especially in those first 2 games. But his 2003 numbers in these categories are comparable to his 2004 numbers.

    3rd down — 79/121, 1054, 12, 3 (Rating: 115.5)
    Blitz — 60/103, 785, 9, 4 (Rating: 95.3)
    Red Zone — 23/51, 147, 14, 2 (Rating: 126.8 )

    “Game Management”

    A lot of people talk about certain QBs being good game managers. I think that, in most cases, that is just someone’s way of pumping up a guy they like on the basis of some intangible that cannot be verified or disproven. Let’s face it, with the exception of occasional audibles, the coaches call the plays. Most of what people refer to as game management is really a reflection of the plays called by the coaches, not anything the QB has done.

    That said, I think there is some QB “game management” in the way the guy plays on 3rd and 4th down. “Managing the game” basically boils down to how well the QB keeps the chains moving, which basically boils down to converting 3rd and 4th downs. Avoiding turnovers is another aspect of game management.

    I was only able to find stats for this for the past 2 seasons. Culpepper’s conversion rate on 3rd and 4th downs has been excellent. Over the last 2 years, he has converted 98/196 (50%). This is the same as Payton Manning (119 of 238), but better than Brees (121/264 – 45.8%) and Brady (122/270 – 45.1%). These numbers do not include plays in which the QB ran for a 1st down on 3rd or 4th down.

    Finally…..

    You all can cheer all you want about getting rid of a 29-year old, physically dominant QB who’s numbers over his 7 year career compare favorably to the best who have ever played the position, but I won’t!

    baldorman
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    Posts: 19
    #430263

    Best move Vikings could have did!! People seem to forget all his stupid fumbles and the guy could never sense pressure coming up from behind him… I look at it this way… I fish Lake Minnetonka from time to time and it is just one less person on the lake taking up room and not fishing! Cheers to Wilf!

    kurt-turner
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 691
    #430267

    Let’s stop all this Culpepper bashing (awareness) just in case someone from Miami is reading this and we end up keeping the fool.

    Tuck said it best – it’s time to send these high profile kindergarteners that do NOT know how to act in public packing…….. See ya, won’t miss you one ounce and I could care less about football, fall fishing is too good! I get tired of reading/hearing about their antics all over the media. Grow up or get a real job besides you are PLAYING a GAME not performing brain surgery (thank God)!

    fishman1
    Dubuque, Iowa
    Posts: 1030
    #430270

    Culpepper may have had all these great stats but did he lead Minnesota to any Superbowls? Johnson may not have the stats that Culpepper has but he does have a Superbowl ring. With all the talent Culpepper had on his teams at Minnesota you would think he might have led the Vikings to at least one Superbowl. Johnson is a winner. Just look at what the Vikings did after Johnson became the starter this last season. You will never, ever convince me that Culpepper is the better QB.

    Eyehunter


    No it wasn’t. Johnson is not twice the QB Culpepper was, he is about 1/2 the quarterback Duante is. It’s not even close.
    There are tons of Daunte haters out there and let me tell you, they are all from Minnesota, or areas that support the Vikes. In the national eye, Duante is respected and looked at as a top QB, which he is.

    I have no question about his abilities, his leadership, or his decisions on the football field. But as soon as he started crying and wanting more money and basically being a prick, it was time to either crack the whip on him, or dump him. The Vikes chose to dump him.

    Another thing is that we had 2 of the top 10 players in the NFL playing for the Vikes 2 years ago. In trades for them we got: a lousy 3rd string linebacker, a receiver that is 2 years away from even being servicable, and now a second round draft pick. Yippee.


    Pig-hunter
    Southern Minnesota
    Posts: 600
    #430277

    Tampa Bay’s defense and ground game led them to the superbowl title that year and it is no secret. You could have plugged in darn near any quarterback that doesn’t make alot of mistakes and they would have won.

    Give the Vikings the #1 ranked defense, a top 3 running game, and a coach that knows what they are doing and you would have seen a Superbowl with Daunte at the helm too.

    You go and take a poll nationally and ask who is the better quarterback. Johnson will not win. I guarantee it.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22414
    #430279

    count the rings ? culpepper in pressure games johnson =

    nuff said….

    big g

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430281

    Quote:


    Culpepper may have had all these great stats but did he lead Minnesota to any Superbowls? Johnson may not have the stats that Culpepper has but he does have a Superbowl ring. With all the talent Culpepper had on his teams at Minnesota you would think he might have led the Vikings to at least one Superbowl. Johnson is a winner. Just look at what the Vikings did after Johnson became the starter this last season. You will never, ever convince me that Culpepper is the better QB.

    Eyehunter


    The fact that Johnson won a ring with a different team, several years ago, in a different state, with different teamates, coaches, sytems has no bearing on what he can do here. Remember Joe Montana? He won more than one ring playing in S.F., but he didn’t do that after he left and went to Kansas City.

    As I said in my last post before this one…..

    The Vikes improvement in the 2nd half of the season last year was NOT because Brad Johnson was better. It was because the OL, which was recovering from the loss of Matt Birk and a rookie at G, started to gel as the season went on. The OL gave up 29 sacks in the first 6 games. They gave up only 23 in the next 10 games. The other reason was that the defense improved dramatically in the second half of the season. In the first 7 games, the defense gave up 193 points, which is approximately 28 per game. In the next 9, they gave up 151 points, which comes out to an average of less than 17 per game. Gee, do you think a difference of 11 ppg allowed might make a difference in wins and losses?

    It really amazes me that the people who dislike Daunte the most are Viking fans. Ask around the rest of the league and he is regarded as one of the best playing today.

    I honestly question just how much Vikings fans really know about the game!

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #430287

    Nobody will remember that Culpepper scored an average of 2 TD a game or whatever. They will remember if he wins a superbowl.

    Or in Dan Marino’s case–NOT win a superbowl despite all his great numbers.

    Winning the SuperBowl solidifies a QB’s Career. Period..That’s just the way it is.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430285

    How many QB’s are in the Hall of Fame that never won a S.B.?

    TBOMN11
    Circle Pines, MN
    Posts: 608
    #430286

    Jack,

    The name of this game is “Cut your Loses”. Culpepper will never be the player he ever was. Do you think the Wilf brothers are stupid. This guy is an @**hole, they know it, he is trouble in a business sense,,they know it, and worst of all, he is somebody that will never take a team to a title, AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!!!!!

    If you owned the team would you have kept him????? Like I said, The name of the business game is: “What have you done for me lately?”……..Daunte = ZERO>>>>Period

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #430292

    It doesn’t matter who is in the hall of fame, if they didn’t win a Superbowl, that asterich will always be next to their name.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #430298

    He just passed his physical so done deal. Viking fan should be happy they finally hired a good coach. Packer fan is worried they might actually be a team for once.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430300

    Joe,

    As I said earlier in this thread, maybe it is the best time for him to leave, but I don’t think it is right for the lynch mob to try to tar and feather him and string him on a poll as he leaves.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #430305

    I beleive most of Minnesota wants to tar/feather the guy because of his poor attitude towards the team in the last 8 months….

    I understand his “stats” were great…….But when you are surrounded with talent, you are going to excell. That is what every poor manager does. He surrounds himself with great people and that manager looks like a rock star.

    However, any “great” manager can surround himself with mediocre staff and still do great.

    Daunte went from a great staff to a mediocre staff and he fell flat on his nose.

    Throw in his lack of motivational support for his team while injured (never showed up to support his team at the games)

    Throw in the love boat scandle……..

    Throw in him playing the race card to get out of the love boat scandle……..

    Throw in his attempt to negotiate his own contracts by dealing directly with the ownership of the Viks and firing his manager.

    Throw in his vagrant and threatening emails to the Viks (you don’t negotiate business through threatening emails……..)

    It was enough……

    By the way…….how many fumbles and broken pass plays?

    Daunte got sacked in the pocket because his brain wouldn’t function fast enough on the pass play for him to comprehend what was going on around him……..He more or less “hesitated”…….

    Brad didn’t get sacked because he moved the ball 10 times faster, getting it to his receivers before the pass play became broken, because he knew if he didn’t move, he was going to get crushed…….

    Pig-hunter
    Southern Minnesota
    Posts: 600
    #430320

    Quote:


    Quote:


    It really amazes me that the people who dislike Daunte the most are Viking fans. Ask around the rest of the league and he is regarded as one of the best playing today.

    I honestly question just how much Vikings fans really know about the game!


    Exactly what I was trying to say. I’ve never seen player that was as good as he was be hated as much as Daunte was. Granted his recent dealings and his knee might have waranted the trade, but nothing else should have. He was fine before that.

    People in Minnesota have had a hate for the guy since that 41-0 slaughter we took in the NFC title game that year.

    BJ will lead us to the promised land!

    derek_johnston
    On the water- Minnesota
    Posts: 5022
    #430321

    Some minnesota fans just dont like black players that complain. When moss was scoring touchdowns he was the best guy in the world. When Daunte was throwing touchdowns he was selling his jersey like crazy.

    I’m not a bleeding heart but i think theres some truth to this.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #430326

    Quote:


    I honestly question just how much Vikings fans really know about the game!


    First, I have to agree with you on it not being all Dantes fault, and that the O-line did solidify itself the last half of the season. But, there is a trait held by most GREAT QB’s that gets their team to rally around them. It is not selfish, does not criticize, or get down on players. IMHO this has been the downfall of Dante Culpepper. He does not have the leadership qualities to make a great player. When things are going his way, he is great, but when things start to corrode around him, he as worthless as teats on a boar.

    Now I am not saying that he will not do great in Miami, because I don’t think that is the case, but he will always be an average QB, and never distinguish himself as other then average.

    And for the record, I have met Dante personally and know 3 people very well who played on the Vikings with him, and they have the same opinion. If brains were dynamite, not enough to blow his nose.

    And as far as Vikings fans not understanding the game, that can be said of 95% of fans of the game, not just Vikings fans. Even the announcers greatly simplify things to make the “average” person feel like they know what is going on.

    Sorry to drag on, but you hit a hot button of mine.

    No disrespect intended, just my 2 cents.

    sandbar
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts: 1027
    #430343

    Not Daunte related, but pretty unbelievable.

    MOSS AGENT BUSTED FOR CRACK POSSESSION

    NFL agent Dante DiTrapano, whose one and only client is Raiders receiver Randy Moss, was arrested in St. Petersburg, Florida on Tuesday for possession of crack cocaine.

    Both DiTrapano and his wife face the charges. Three other persons were arrested at the same time, and are charged with possession of crack cocaine and a variety of other offenses.

    DiTrapano had rented three rooms at the St. Petersburg Hilton for a one-night stay. Per the police department’s web site, he “created a disturbance at his room, prompting the management to call the police, and officers located the illegal drugs when they arrived at the rooms to investigate the call.”

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430365

    Quote:


    Throw in him playing the race card to get out of the love boat scandle……..


    He didn’t play the “race” card. His attorney did that, and thats what you should expect from a defense attorney. Nothing to blame on Daunte there!!

    Quote:


    Throw in his attempt to negotiate his own contracts by dealing directly with the ownership of the Viks and firing his manager.


    He fired his manager because he was the one who started the whole ball rolling with the contract issues and Daunte didn’t like it. Daunte was taking Zygi at his word, but the agent didn’t and thats what screwed the whole thing up to start.

    As for being surrounded by talent all these years , how can that be when our defense was one of the 5 worst in the league every year Daunte played for us. Face it, if it weren’t for the offense with Daunte under center, the last 5-6 years we would have looked worse than the Houston Texans!

    TBOMN11
    Circle Pines, MN
    Posts: 608
    #430367

    Jack you know so much about Daunte and what has happened here, how is that possible, are you related to Daunte????

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #430374

    Don’t think for a minute that DC didn’t know his lawyer was going to play the race card! A stand up man would say “Bull@#%*!” I was wrong, and I am sorry! It does not matter what color they were. On either side. DC could have said something after the fact as well, but didn’t.

    I find it funny how you can say it was due to an “Improving O line” when the changes were immediate, and prolonged! Daunte could not react to a blitz or pressure from either direction. He made bad decisions on the field and in his personal life. He paid for them he is gone. Good riddance! No, Brad will not take this team to a superbowl, but we can bet he has the teams best interests at heart both on and off the field. He has “Character”. A word that does not get used much in Pro Sports much anymore.

    kurt-turner
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 691
    #430378

    Jack – do you mean I can stop boiling this tar and quit plucking the chickens? Dang, I was looking forward……

    If a pro-angler was such a poor role model, I would be saying the same thing! Throw the bum out! The good old USA could use a few more GOOD role models for the next few generations, they are being mislead about what it takes to live a nice life and raise a family. I find that disturbing and sad. But it’s just my humble lil’ opinion so go on with your sympathy rant for the poor boy that’s had such a hard life….. boohoo

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #430393

    Hey, whats done is done. Time to let it go. Some people are happy to see him go, I’m not of that same mind, but thats the way it is sometimes.

    I hope his knee heals and he gets the chance to play the game he loves once again.

    While I’m not as happy as some about him leaving, I am happy about one thing though. Now that Moss, Tice and Daunte are gone, there is no reason everyone here shouldn’t be happy to support the new stadium and maybe even pitch in a few extra $ to help get it done!!!

    You know it is going to happen……don’t you?

    dhnitro
    Markesan, WI
    Posts: 289
    #430530

    I just got done watching the sports on a Green Bay channel. Fullback William Henderson visited the Vikings today, and really liked what he heard and was offered. He said that the new offensive guy Darrel Bevel is going to really change up the offense and start using the fullback more. Hmm…just maybe the Vikings know what they are doing. Lets hope so. Seems like the Packs are jumpin ship. Once again Farve may be gone if this continues…If someone know the Vikings coaches, have them give Farve a call….Are the Vikings loking for a QB???? If so, who???

    deeplake
    Iron, mn
    Posts: 247
    #430531

    do you even watch football??? Dumte is only as good as his recievers and if he’s lucky enough to hold on to the ball somehow.. if i remember right he likes to lead the nfl in turnovers, and when he did complete a pass 7 of 10 werent dropping right in their arms.. they were reaching.. good luck in pro football dumte…

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #430536

    Jack, we agree on that. I do believe that we need a new stadium. And here is why. I have been all around this country. I have seen first hand what stadiums can do for cities and teams! Both Football and Baseball. From a biz standpoint I think it is great! From a “Team” standpoint, I think it is even better. I have no crystal ball, and let the chips fall where they may! I like the clean slate idea! That being said, I like the “Tenderness” in these words, as I may have to eat them later.

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #430587

    Jack, you just found the guy that still opposes the stadium.

    jboecker
    Illinois
    Posts: 88
    #430656

    On the stadium thing: I’m a Bear fan and what really burned me about the way that organization handled things was that they said they needed the ‘new’ stadium to compete. More revenue=more money to spend on players, makes sense. Like if the public didn’t agree to fork over the $$ the Bears would just go on being a crappy team. So they got the money and did what they did with it(i.e. built the goofiest looking stadium they could have just so they could keep it within Chicago city limits.). Then they hit the season ticket holders for big $$ to buy ‘Personal Seat Licenses’ in order to even be able to buy tickets!! And long-time season ticket holders that had good seats in the old place suddenly had terrible seats in the new one and there was nothing they could do about it. And how many Super Bowls have the Bears played in the last couple years?

    Just saying that if this is the kind of stuff you’re hearing from the Vikings organization be very careful. The whole ‘reward mediocrity with your $$ so we can get better’ is just a crazy way of thinking when it already costs an arm and a leg to go to a game.

    2Fishy4U
    Posts: 973
    #430923

    Someome earlier in this post referred to Brett Favre, when he was younger, as a drunken, pill popper. They forgot to mention that the difference between Favre and Culpepper is the former admitted his mistakes and recovered, while the latter continues to act like a spoiled 12 year old.

    As for leadership, Favre has never had a problem in that respect, while Culpepper because of his attitude has shown little leadership ability.

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