Conceal/Carry Bill VETOED!

  • riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #416997

    No hate intended here:

    I don’t think anyone would feel safe simply by grabbing up a pistol and walking the streets of Milwaukee. Now, if it were a person already living in the city they may well feel more secure while carrying. That said no one has said the intent of CC is for me or anyone else to strap on the ol .45 and go looking for crime-That’s jumping to conclusions that are not there.

    Quote:


    I for one would not enjoy being drug through the mud, paying an attorney my life savings and still going away due to some Dane County jury.



    I’d say your right, that would be uncomfortable! But, how would it feel to have a meth head drag you out of your car at a stop sing and speed away with your kids in the back seat yet? Or have the meth head force you into your home after you come home from dinner with the family. Would it be comfortable to be tied up in your room while one of the potheads pours the coals to your wife? A very similar situation took place in Eau Claire about two years ago. Thankfully the family wasn’t physically hurt. But imagine sitting there watching them do what they want to your wife or kids…Not in my house if I can help it!

    I sure can’t speak with any kind of accuracy how the majority of folks in the aformentioned counties would vote, but look in these forums and others. The majority is very clearly shown by everyday people. Not that a popular vote ever makes a law pass.

    Truth is carrying a weapon cannot be proven than it makes people bandits. How many million of people take to the woods in November every year with out turning into Rambo? Aside from the obvious Sawyer County incident it is very rare.

    smsmith
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 172
    #417000

    Yes, the opinions here are everyday, average people. The thing we all have in common however is that most of us are hunters and/or responsible gun owners. Sportsmen/women make up a very small minority of the population.
    I agree in your scenario that it would be terrible to deal with. I guess if you are concerned about that, I would already be carrying a weapon. Just as a poster here has stated, if you are carrying a weapon now and are not using it illegally, why do you need CC? I personally do not live in fear of a meth head doing that. Does that mean it won’t happen? Who knows. I also don’t worry that North Korea is going to nuke us, that’s why I haven’t dug a bomb shelter.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #417004

    Quote:


    When will this issue come up for vote again?


    Absolutley, Yes!

    Prediction. Doyle and many of the Reps that voted against the bill will get tossed out of office in November. The new Wi leadership will quickly get the bill passed into law.

    I encourage all of you reading this to support the passage of right to carry in Wi by joining the National Rifle Association (NRA). Lots of good info on thier website at:

    http://www.mynra.com/

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #417008

    smsith, again wow, where do you come up with this stuff!!!

    Quote:


    if you are carrying a weapon now and are not using it illegally, why do you need CC?


    BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO CARRY WITHOUT A LICENSE!!

    Do you just drive a car without a license because you never get pulled over? Come on, get real.

    -J.

    riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #417012

    Quote:


    The Second Amendment? I get concerned when we sportsmen/women use this reason for our right to own guns. If you read the amendment it does not state that every citizen has the right to walk around armed.



    I can’t help but reply here, sorry. Umm, read it again. See if you can pick out the phrase “The Right to Keep and Bear Arms”. If so, look closly at the word “bear”. Thank you.

    Quote:


    Most people have never touched a gun, much less fired one.



    Please, stop making stuff up, it doesn’t help the discussion. How could you possibly know who has or hasn’t touched a gun?

    Quote:


    I would like gun owners not to always scream it is our right, but rather show through our actions that owning guns in and of itself is not a bad thing.



    I will continue to scream anytime anyone tries to erode my American Constitional rights, and so should you! I hope this sounds kinda like I’m shouting it because I dang near am, lol. As for proving through actions that owning a gun isn’t a bad thing well, I’m pretty dang sure we have. I’d challenge you to prove we (sportsman) haven’t!

    dave-barber
    St Francis, MN
    Posts: 2100
    #417038

    I have my MN CC permit. I have since 34 days after the law went into effect (waited a few days for the lines to go down and 30 day processing time). I, for one, have not gone out looking for the evil-doer. In fact, I hardly carry at all unless I am going somewhere I am not familiar or am not safe with. My wife asked me why did I even get the permit if I am not carrying. My response: Because I can. Because it is my right. And sometimes, is my responsibility.

    dave-barber
    St Francis, MN
    Posts: 2100
    #417040

    Got this off of an email a while back… can’t quote specific sources though:

    Defense of self, family is a personal duty
    Guest columnist Will Dougan, 30, is director of music ministries at a local church.

    August 17, 2003

    “Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others.”

    – Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2265 (1997)

    ——————————————————————————–

    The question “why do you choose to carry a firearm?” has haunted me.

    I am a fairly normal guy. I love to eat barbecue, I pay taxes, I vote. I’d like to take my wife out more often (to eat barbecue), I attend church and I’m a baseball fan – just like many other men in Memphis.

    One thing that makes me different from some of those men is that I carry a gun. I do so because I truly believe that preserving the safety and well-being of my wife, my children and myself is my duty.

    Do I think there are villains around every corner waiting to pounce? Certainly not. To quote the Boy Scout motto, my intent is only to “be prepared.”

    I carry a spare tire in my car, have emergency supplies at home, and always wear my seatbelt, all so that I will be prepared. I have used my spare tire twice, never used the emergency supplies and found my seatbelt’s restraints necessary only once. So why do I still maintain all those safeguards? Because I know that when I do need them, I’ll need them desperately.

    For me, a handgun is much the same – a safeguard. I carry it and train with it just in case I ever need it.

    I hope never to need my gun. I avoid places I think might not be safe. I pay close attention to what is going on around me, so that I can stay one step ahead of potential dangers. I do not look for trouble nor go around with a chip on my shoulder.

    I love my family more than anything on Earth. I want my children to grow up, go to school, move out and give me grandchildren. I want my wife and me to live and love each other until death do us part – when we are very, very old. The thought of losing them or having them lose me makes my eyes well up and lodges a lump in my throat.

    I grew up in rural Madison County, where guns were a part of life, not something to be feared or mistrusted. We all had them, we all used them, and we all respected them.

    A gun was and is a tool – nothing more, nothing less. You would never know my gun is there; it is safely tucked away in a manner that renders it harmless unless it is called upon. When you are at my home, there is no sign of a firearm; they are all stored in locked safes.

    I take my duty as husband and father seriously. Part of that duty is being willing and able to protect my loved ones – from drugs, economic dangers and physical threats. The words of my father ring in my ears: “With great privilege comes great responsibility.” I carry a gun because it is my responsibility alone – not that of the police, nor the government, nor the community – to defend the precious lives that God has entrusted to me.

    Although I have great distaste for the possibility of taking a life, I recall the words attributed to St. Augustine: “Though defensive violence will always be a ‘sad necessity’ in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men.”

    Fathers are like sheepdogs. We must be persistent, gentle, playful and, at times, ferocious. On occasion, we must become like the wolf that threatens our flock.

    For me, that means owning, carrying and undergoing extensive training with a firearm, so that when the wolf appears out of the shadows, I will be prepared to defend what the Master has given me.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417042

    First of all, I am not laughing at my fellow WI bro’s (who shall remain nameless) opinions, but rather the laughter is an overt expression of my unmitigated Joy. The Joy for the courage and inspiration their posts have given me to express a couple of my opinions that are more than somewhat controversial. So here goes! Geronimo!!!!

    Opinion One: The earth IS flat and, Opinion Two: The moon IS made of green cheese.

    I freely admit, both are long held and firmly imbedded in rock solid opinion! As such, I am impervious to any sort of rational thought or facts to the contrary. I know there exists certain scientific data that would seem to dispute this, to which others have subscribed. I contend these so called ‘facts’ merely touch the surface. I am not claiming these scientific theories are cheesy and rounded off, rather blatantly untrue and biased! ‘Evidence’ to the contrary be damned! I sure hope the First Amendment will not be subject to the same type of interpretation as the Second!. How would the truths of other such visionaries be told were that to happen?

    Forgive me for I digress. Back to the conceal carry issue, I personally find this veto a mere inconvenience. It means for me, in that I already hold a CC permit for a neighboring state, I must continue to wait until I cross the river (about a mile away) to commit nefarious deeds! Further it means, if I am not mistaken about current WI law (which, of course, is not possible IMO), I can then take the gun openly and legally displayed on my hip and put it under my shirt. Now I am armed and truly dangerous. I am beyond the point of no return. I find great comfort in knowing the day that CC becomes law in WI, which it most certainly will, I will l not have to go the extra mile!

    Sorry but the joy of finding the courage to post this is overwhelming and uncontrollable! Please forgive!

    skhartke
    Somerset, WI
    Posts: 1416
    #417068

    EJ,
    Yes. You are correct. You can legally open carry a gun in Wisconsin. Nobody’s rights are being infringed in Wisconsin. There are some provisions. I’ve included a link: Wisconsin’s open carry
    I like where it says you can legally open carry, but you will attract the attention of every LEO!

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #417072

    Quote:


    You are correct. You can legally open carry a gun in Wisconsin.


    That may be the case, give it a try and let us know how that works out for you. I’d suggest getting a very cheap handgun for your experiment, as you will lose that gun and never see it again.

    Also, let me ask this question. Why would you want untrained, unlicensed, any age, any mental condition person walking around town with a handgun in plain view of everyone? It would seem some regulations make sense here….????

    J.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417078

    Quote:


    EJ,
    Yes. You are correct. You can legally open carry a gun in Wisconsin. Nobody’s rights are being infringed in Wisconsin. There are some provisions. I’ve included a link: Wisconsin’s open carry
    I like where it says you can legally open carry, but you will attract the attention of every LEO!


    It is indeed a catch 22!
    However even with the fertile imagination I am burdened with, I can not make the transition from the Open Carry (legal) to the Conceal Carry (illegal) logic/rationale???

    Can anyone help me connect the dots?

    smsmith
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 172
    #417085

    Umm, sorry I see the word “bear” in the second amendment, I also see the words “state militia”. Private citizens in the modern world would not be considered part of the state militia. The WI National Guard could very well be considered the state militia.
    How do I know that most citizens have not touched or fired a gun? Pretty simple really, look at population, look at gun registrations, look at hunting licenses sold (hunters make up the largest group of gun owners-that group amounts to less than 10% of the population), look at hunter safety courses taken, etc. You will find that the majority of Americans live in urban settings. The majority of those people do not hunt. The majority of those people are law abiding citizens. The majority of those people have not taken the necessary coursework for a CC permit. There’s my reasoning for that statement.
    This type of confrontation to a fellow sportsman (who has repeatedly stated that he is not anti gun) who doesn’t spit out the “party line”is what lost my membership to the NRA. There is only one truth to this type of person. There is no “gray” area. Uncle Ted loves you guys, you’re his minions. To me, he seems like he’s freakin’ nuts.
    I won’t be able to get you guys to see my point, I have already acknowledged yours. Narrow mindedness is not a good trait. I respectfully end my participation in this debate.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417092

    Steve, Upon further thought, the only explanation I can come up with is that as soon as you take that openly displayed gun out of your hip holster and tuck it under your shirt you will immediately be over come with a sense of vigilantism so powerful that you will ride into the nearest criminal haunt, only to have your gun forcefully taken from you or you will ride into town, find the nearest saloon, have a couple of drinks, pick an argument then shoot the place up! It makes one wonder what these WI lawmakers know and aren’t telling us.

    twedul
    Holmen, WI
    Posts: 64
    #417094

    I am with you slop. Keep fighting the fight. Ted

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #417115

    I think the bill was written to fail from the start. Allow drunk people to carry? A misdemeanor for police officers trying to do their jobs? No real workable way for concerned business owners to prevent the possible intoxicated carriers into their establishments? These were all poison pills in this bill written by the NRA. They could have had this under Thompson if they really wanted it. If it passed what could the NRA deliver next cycle for people afraid of losing their guns? Maybe machine guns again? I am for a responsible carry law but this one was full of nonsense. I also do not understand why so many out of state people give hoot about Wisconsin Laws. This a classic right wing ploy to separate us on one issue. In Wisconsin we are having problems funding our schools and many have no health care or have had their jobs sent over seas. We have many more important things to work on that have been ignored. Next session we get to hear them fight about Gays marrying which is already illegal here. I am sick and tired of this two step. Incumbants of either party are awash in dirty campaign cash, people have been indicted for bribery and corruption. We are in a war to stamp out weapons of mass destruction that never existed. Huge oil companies are squeezing the life out of our economy. We should certainly stay the course. I read today that the lawful sane people who wanted this so badly are now calling in death threats to the family of a few legislators. I don’t want to fight with anyone about rights. This is my last comment on this topic.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #416775

    Quote:


    Allow drunk people to carry? A misdemeanor for police officers trying to do their jobs? No real workable way for concerned business owners to prevent the possible intoxicated carriers into their establishments?


    NOT true. You need to be able to back up that information.

    Quote:


    This a classic right wing ploy to separate us on one issue.


    I assure you, I am not part of any conspiricy.

    Quote:


    I read today that the lawful sane people who wanted this so badly are now calling in death threats to the family of a few legislators.


    I’d like to read more on that story. Where can I find it?

    riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #417122

    Quote:


    Umm, sorry I see the word “bear” in the second amendment, I also see the words “state militia”. Private citizens in the modern world would not be considered part of the state militia.




    No offense but, it might be a good idea to look up the meaning of the word militia. Here I’ll help The term “state militia” is a contradiction in and of itself.

    I’d wager a bet (that I cannot prove) that more than just license buying and registered short gun owners own guns. There is likely more people that own guns than hunt. As far as I know there isn’t law that states you have to buy a hunting license if you own a gun.

    chamberschamps
    Mazomanie, WI
    Posts: 1089
    #417148

    Quote:


    I read today that the lawful sane people who wanted this so badly are now calling in death threats to the family of a few legislators.


    I’d like to read more on that story. Where can I find it?


    I believe i heard it today on Minnesota Public Radio. IMO, thats a pretty reliable source. Ofcourse, they could not ID the people making the threats. Might just be some nut job looking for an excuse…

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #417151

    snsmith, I have posted plenty of objective information, as did James on the “Shooter’s Forum”, I don’t plan to re-deux it here. Page over, and tell me where the bias is. I am sure you will find it if you look hard enough.
    You keep making the statement “Sportsmen….” I don’t see where being a “Sportsman” has anything to do with CC. Look, no one is telling you that you will be forced to go out and purchase a gun. No one is telling you you have to carry one. The law does state that “Minnesota Shall Issue” me a permit to carry concealed if I take the responsibility to do so, and complete the required training. In a nutshell, that is it. You and I will never agree on this issue. We each have our own staunchly formed opinions. I like to think mine are backed based on law and fact. The law states that I can CC. The fact is that during the tenure of CC, crime rates have declined in States that have it. (Notice I did not say BECAUSE OF CC!) Yours are based on conjecture, and opinions of a group of people whom you know nothing about, but chose to force an opinion on us based in what? Fear that law abiding citizens will all of a sudden break into sporadic gun fire?
    If you were a Lutheran, and someone told you that you were no longer allowed to practice that religon, what would your response be?
    What if we sat here and told you that CC was the way it is, and everyone MUST carry. If you disagreed, you would be persecuted. What would you say?
    Well, that cannot happen in in the good old US of A. These rights are guaranteed. You may chose to give up Your right to keep and bear arms. But I didn’t.
    Keep believing what you wish. Just don’t tell me what to believe.

    smsmith
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 172
    #417269

    Last post on the issue: you don’t want me to tell you what to think? I too do not want your loud, minority opinion to govern what I do and think. It’s a two way street. If CC is law in MN, that’s fine. I live in WI. A state that has been known for progressive laws since it became a state. If you want to carry, I don’t deny you that. Never said I did. You are looking for a fight.

    This thread is about WI law and Wisconsinites are the people that drive those laws. So because you think you are right, the people of WI should fall into lock step with you? Don’t think so.

    It is okay to think for yourself. I don’t have to agree with everything the NRA says. I can agree with some of what they say and with some of what the Brady Bill stood for. THAT is what makes this the good old U.S. of A. I too have the right to speak my mind and attempt to influence the political process just as you do.

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #417273

    Classy.
    You don’t get it.
    Enough.
    I’m done.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417276

    You say classy, I say classic!
    Far to often that which flies under the banner of progress is in reality circular motion!

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #417279

    Well, I’m not done!

    I want to post facts in response Wiskerkev’s post.

    The Wi bill does not allow drunk CC. In fact the limit is .02, much lower than you are allowed to drive with in Wi which is .08.

    The Wi bill does not allow carry in schools and police stations. ***Edit or Bars.

    And as far as some left wing liberal calling in an unsubstaniated threat and then the only place it is reported is on the most liberal, democraticly supportive radio station in the state is a joke.

    We had to deal with the media here reporting outright lies. It did not work!

    -J.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #417280

    I’m not…. either

    I live on the border. Eating out and shopping..I find myself in WI. WI laws are my laws as MN laws are laws for folks working in MN but living in WI.

    When CC is legal, no one will make you carry if you don’t want to and WI or you shouldn’t say I can’t carry.

    Well, I would expand on this more, but I’m off to the gun range.

    Have a good rest of the day guys!

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #417283

    JJ, one thing I find when debating with this type of mentality is that your facts are worthless. Conjecture and left wing opinion is all that matters. There are people in this country who will deny the fact that the constitution GIVES me & you the right to keep and “BEAR” arms. Straight forward and simple words that get twisted beyond belief. And when I proclaim that I have that right (Like they do as well!) I am told I am looking for a fight! Fighting for my rights maybe!

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417420

    Well I am about to bow out now that Minnesota Public Radio has been properly tagged. Facts are absolutely useless when debating an opinion anchored solely in emotion which is far to often the case! One last thing, the earth is really flat and the moon is really composed of green cheese!

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #417425

    Quote:


    now that Minnesota Public Radio has been properly tagged.


    Funny how I just wasted an hour of my life searching for the story on the MPR website. Not there! (Not on any other new reporting media that I could find either.) They will air it as “News” but will not bother to put the story in print. I have also put in a call to the station manager regarding the story. Will be interesting to see if I get a return call…..

    Maybe I need to walk across the street here and knock on some doors!

    riveratt
    Central Wisconsin US-of-A
    Posts: 1464
    #417473

    Quote:


    Last post on the issue:



    You said that already, lol.
    I presume the definition of militia I found was correct? It seems that “state militia” thing has now faded.

    Quote:


    I too do not want your loud, minority opinion to govern what I do and think.



    Loud? Dang right. Try to erode American rights and someone had dang well better get loud. As for being the “minority opinion” again, stop making things up. Look in the pages here and tell me who the holds minority opinion. Unfortunatly it is often the well funded minority opinion that governs what the majority are forced to deal with, so get used to it. We have had to.

    Quote:


    This thread is about WI law and Wisconsinites are the people that drive those laws.



    While that is a very good point, it is also fact that certains laws are made or altered because of heavy outside influance. Tourism dollars are a very strong factor, a factor that heavily weighs in on this subject. I personaly do not want an American right altered to better suit tourism, but like it or not it may be a factor.

    Quote:


    I too have the right to speak my mind and attempt to influence the political process just as you do.



    We have very common ground on this! I also hope you don’t let getting beat up on in non violent or personal debate drive you from continuing to fight your fight. It’s just hard to debate speculation and opinion.

    dave-barber
    St Francis, MN
    Posts: 2100
    #417475

    This just in:

    78.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #417483

    It that before or after your post?

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