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It’s been a couple of years since they instituted C&C here in Minnesota and nothing has changed.
I would argue that point Suzuki. LOTS has changed. Many have taken the CC classes and even if they don’t carry, they are armed with the information of “just being aware”. Not to mention the handgun and ammo purchases…along with range fees.
Other than that, I agree with you.
Nice “Tongue in cheek” response Brian. 
I know what you mean by that, and you are absolutely correct. There are probably more informed and trained Minnesotans now than ever in the history of this State. I know that Mike was referring to the fact that there have been very few instances where legally permitted persons carrying handguns have changed anyones daily life! No random robberies, no homicide increase, etc. And if you look at the data provided by the NRA and other organizations, crime has dropped.
(By the way, please do not tell me that the information is biased unless you have the data to back it up. 
)
Not to mention the new businesses that have sprang up to support CC in a lot of States.
You folks who are crowing about the fact that CC got overturned, have your party. 
You won this round. There is a reason the WI State color is RED. They will add the “White and Blue” after November.
For sale: three 22 ounce “Bob Vila” autograph model assault hammers w/ belt rings, $50 apiece; four “Barry Bonds” autograph model assault bats w/ resin, $60 apiece.
Regarding concealed carry: ” i would rather be tried by 12 honest men than carried by 6″… Neil Mclaughlin, retired game warden.
concealed carry? nothing has changed. ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Soem punk may eventually come up and rattle this old dog’s cage. It will change my life forever. But he won’t be around to see the grief he’s wrought. and that’s a promise.
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concealed carry? nothing has changed. ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Soem punk may eventually come up and rattle this old dog’s cage. It will change my life forever. But he won’t be around to see the grief he’s wrought. and that’s a promise.
And he won’t hurt my family. You said it! 
So, let me get this straight Jon. If you were strapped with a gat you’d walk around downtown Milwaukee and feel safe? You’re nuts man. If you think gangsters like to roll you for money, just wait til you see what they do for your nice gleaming Desert Eagle.
You’re not dealing with some kids with a .22. Real criminals, like you are alluding to, are carrying Mac 10’s, Uzi’s, and AK’s. I suppose you want to be able to walk around with those next? Listen, I am not anti gun, I like guns, like to shoot guns, like to hunt, have been doing all of the above for 25+ years. My point is, for MOST scenarios you or me being armed with a .357 isn’t going to do much. Maybe get one of us put on trial for negligent man slaughter, especially in WI where the only legal reason for firing a weapon at a person is to protect yourself or your loved one from IMMEDIATE, DEADLY danger. I for one would not enjoy being drug through the mud, paying an attorney my life savings and still going away due to some Dane County jury.
To clarify what I assume a previous poster was asking about a referendum regarding concealed carry losing here: The majority of WI’s popluation lives in Dane, Kenosha, and Milwaukee counties. Those counties are the same ones which give the state to Democratic candidates for president and the ones that elect Democrats governor here (rare as that is). Those counties would vote down the concealed carry bill if it were put to a popular vote.
It is statements like that that show a biased un-informed person making judgements on what other people (Whom you do not even know!)care to do to protect themselves. In your “Senario” you ask “Would you feel safe walking down the streets of Milwaukee carrying a Gat?” I sense a challenge in your post that would lead me to believe that you view people with a CC permit to be a John Wayne or Aute Murphy type who think they are bigger than life because they carry? Would that be pretty accurate? I am asking, because I don’t want to classify you the same way you appear to be doing to CC permitee’s.
I don’t pretend to speak for anyone but myself here… but other than this site and some close friends, no one knows that I carry. If you met me on the street, you wouldn’t know. It wouldn’t be advertised. As far as anyone feeling safe walking around Milwaukee? I would chose not to put myself in that position if I felt threatened. But in the off chance, I do end up in a “Free” Milwaukee some day, I would at least have the confidence that I would be playing on a more level playing field.
Look, it is as simple as practicing your constitutional rights such as speech and religon. If you allow people to pick and choose those freedoms for you, then feel free to follow that next lemming over the cliff.
Have a great evening! 
Tuck
Confucius say if you wish to conceal gun, don’t wear tranparent robe! 
Whew, wow…. Where do I start to respond…
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If you were strapped with a gat you’d walk around downtown Milwaukee and feel safe?
HHHmmmm… Yes.
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for your nice gleaming Desert Eagle.
I don’t have a Desert Eagle. I do want one however.
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Real criminals, like you are alluding to, are carrying Mac 10’s, Uzi’s, and AK’s. I suppose you want to be able to walk around with those next?
First off, I can’t see where I was alluding to any criminal activity in any of my posts on the thread.
Second, Yes. I would rather have legally licensed, law abiding citizens carrying those guns than the criminals.
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for MOST scenarios you or me being armed with a .357 isn’t going to do much.
A .357 is a very powerful handgun. More powerful than the 9mm I like to carry.
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Maybe get one of us put on trial for negligent man slaughter, especially in WI where the only legal reason for firing a weapon at a person is to protect yourself or your loved one from IMMEDIATE, DEADLY danger. I for one would not enjoy being drug through the mud, paying an attorney my life savings and still going away due to some Dane County jury.
First – Of course, “protect yourself or your loved one from IMMEDIATE, DEADLY danger” That’s the point!
Second, as has already been mentioned, better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
It’s obvious, this is pretty much Black and White (Red – Blue…. whatever) issue. I hope I have clarified my position here.
-J.
Curiously my most recent post is missing? I don’t think anything was said that would require removal of an entire post. I’d sure appreciate a PM with a reason why my post has been removed. 
It is possible I clicked the “preview” button before my broswer crashed but, I am almost certain I read my reply live. If a mod didn’t remove my post I’d like to try and repost it tomorrow-too late tonight!
Wasn’t me.
I only notice the one in blue ’till now.
I’ve been reading this post for a few days and i had to ask the person im working for now if he had a permit to conceal and he said yes. I then asked him whats inmvolved in Iowa and how hard it is to get a permit and he said its fairly easy. He said theres a course that has to be taken including a test of compatence after the schooling session. He said after everythings over with and the instructor has had time too look everyone over its still up to him wheather that person gets a permit or not. He said one of the required things that has to be in place all the time to be completely legal is the permit owner has to have atleast $500 on him or her to be legal when carrying. I can see why this law is inplace to keep some people from having one, sounds like a half law also, and why it is required but its not the complete law that i would want if was to file for a permit to carry like in Colorado or Arizona. As of now i don’t intend to file for one as i don’t need one. I have seen in the past articles that have proved (nra) that crime has gone down in some areas and has actually gone up in other situations with this being said it sounds like criminals are going to do what they want anyway so why not have a concealed permit to carry just incase a guy needs it. Here in Iowa you have to show that your life, not another person life is in jepordy, this dosen’t make much sense eigther in some situations but does in others. I think some of these carry laws are built with a jury in mind and whats happened in that case. If i came across an old lady getting the heck beat out of her i’d have to admitt i’d put a bullet in his arm or leg if i told him i was carrying and he didn’t stop, i wouldn’t shoot to kill but i would stop him for sure, that gal may never recover so this is why i think that some of the conceal laws are made with a jury in mind. I can’t see any reasons at all when no matter what the laws says when it comes to gun ownership the criminals are always going to have guns anyway so why not give conceal permits to the competent just incase a person needs them. Wheather im coming home from hunting and have a shotgun in my vehicle if i see someone getting the heck seriously beat out of them im going to stop the guy, i’ll take my chances with a jury. Now this has to be in the right situation not just a couple of guys beating the heck out of eachother or even someone getting beat bad which i’d seriously think about it then but would still probably refrain and call the police instead but in the right situation I may not shoot the guy with the first round or two warning him but if this dosen’t stop the guy, im going to hit him in the leg or arm. I for one can’t see the diffrence between helping a police officer in a rough situation or helping someone whos taking a life threating serious beating. Maybe i need to be better informed but this is what i would do as of now. I know concealed laws are in place so that not just anyone without good judgemental qualities can get one, this protects the guy from himself plus the perpetrator. I wouldn’t hesitate at all when it comes to helping an officer in trouble, when it comes to the public i know what i’d like to do after hes been warned but theres laws too and some for good reason also. Big subject for me as of now but if its going to be a concealed law make it a concealed law, not a half law.
For all the CC haters out there, I have one question. What are you going to do when put in a situation where your daughter/wife/mother is going to be muredered/raped/beaten and you have to watch. I’m going down swinging, I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t do everyting in my power to protect my family. I can also say my family may be grief stricken should I end up in prison, but I guarantee I will have their respect until the day that I die.
Three years ago, we had a visitor at our house early one morning. My wife just got out of the shower and sure enough she had an audience at the window. What if that guy tried to take it to the next level?? I am sickened at the thought. Does this justify brandishing a weapon? In my opinion, yes. You have invaded my private space. Does it justify a shooting, no. What I wouldn’t give to see the guy’s face when my wife reached over to the end table for her pistol though.
I can not understand why everyone doesn’t believe they have the right to protect his/her family/self. Go read a little bit of American history. Look what England tried a few year back. Why do you think our fore-fathers constructed the constitution as it is today?? God bless them!!!
Chris-my post about carrying a gun and feeling safe was in response to another post. I was asked if I would walk around downtown Milwaukee without a gun and feel safe. My response simply stated that if you are carrying a gun in gang turf areas and now you feel safe, you are fooling yourself. I work with 15-21 year old students who are criminally adjudicated as either juveniles or adults. These kids have moved to my area from Chicago, the Twin Cities and Milwaukee. I do not think that most people on here understand the mind set of these kids. They have no fear of death. If you think flashing a gun to these kids is going to scare them off, it isn’t. They’ll come back at you with fire power that you wouldn’t believe.
You say that I think the CC law will lead to John Wayne and Aute Murphy. Have you read some of these posts? It sure seems like a lot of “tough guys” saying “bring it on” to me. I was taught a long time ago that guns are not for pointing at people. I’m 40 now, live in a relatively urban setting as does everyone I know. None of us have witnessed a crime being committed that would have warranted CC. I think CC could create more crime than it would prevent. Uninformed? I don’t think so, I have followed this issue closely for many years.
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I think CC could create more crime than it would prevent
Not trying to hate, but can you show me documented statistics to support your claim? Just wondering. Thanks.
Sm, I’m not aiming at you 
with this response because it’s been brought up MANY times before…It still makes me scratch my thick head. I’m quoting you because it’s short and to the point.
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I think CC could create more crime than it would prevent.
I try to be very open minded but this statement does not compute…
Assuming I am legally carrying, there wouldn’t be MORE crime because the gun is on me for protection…there would be NO crime unless my life was on the line. Either way there is going to be a crime…the permit to carry would just change the outcome…and I would have a chance to be alive. Without the permit to carry, 1 crime…me dead? See what I’m saying?
Cabelas sells nice leather “money belts” which could easily accommodate a grand in smiling Franklins…and the clip for a clip-draw holster! Never know when somebody is gonna have a pistol, snowmobile or harmonica for sale cheap to somebody with cash!
back in college days and living in the married folks dorm my football game was interuppted by my new bride screaming. A peeping tom was looking at her when she just got out of the shower thru the opaque bathroom window. i had to crouch in the weeds for three or four nites, swatting mosquitos, before he showed up again, at a neighbor’s window two apts. down.
These folks didn’t have to pay for the glass i broke with the [censored]’s face, cause damage was from the outside. The bricks below the window weren’t damaged by his forehead. And my foot wasn’t damaged after delivering multiple kicks to his ribs and gut. Never saw him again.
Probably too old anymore to deliver an adequate whuppin’…but anybody who messes with my family is gonna know they’ve at least been in a fight when the dust clears. 
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And my foot wasn’t damaged after delivering multiple kicks to his ribs and gut
Ted, don’t let anyone from Kenosha County hear that, you won’t be allowed to legally carry your feet around with you. 
Big B, I was refering to everyday life. Don’t you have cat rod to string or somthing???
I know what you meant Suzuki. A non factor!
No cat rods today…I’m having a beer and cleaning guns with all my redneck friends.
(JOKE)
What Chris said about being informed hit the nail on the head. There is so much to learn about C&C and the imense responsibility. I believe a C&C person is FAR LESS likely to get involved in a dangerous sitution than someone who is not because of the training and new awareness. People that think C&C is all about the bravado are so full of themselves and just plain refuse to accept reality.
C&C is about defending yourself and loved ones from great bodily harm or death. THAT’S IT. Use it in any other way and you go to jail. C&C people know this because they go to mandatory training. This impression of the wild west and gun totin cowboys is pure fantasy and only perpetuated by the uninformed. Grow up for CS. Oh, and good luck spotting the C&C person out there. You won’t see my weapon either.
This whole CC issue is about self protection, purely and simply! It is not about arming oneself and ‘saddling up’ to look for trouble. It is about the last option for dealing with life threatening situations that find their way to you and/or your loved ones! It is not about interjecting yourself into third party situations…that is for law enforcement! Self preservation is a God given instinct. The Second Amendment of the Constitution grants us a means to do so! This vigilante argument, used primarily by the Blue crowd has no basis in fact, but rather unfounded hysteria!
Personally, I would not be found knowingly wandering around in Milwaukee (or any other criminal infested area), day or night, even if I was riding in an Abrams!
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And my foot wasn’t damaged after delivering multiple kicks to his ribs and gut
Ted, don’t let anyone from Kenosha County hear that, you won’t be allowed to legally carry your feet around with you.
Actually outlawing hands and feet has some merit, as the are lethal weapons and have been the weapons of choice in countless murders!
Eye Jacker…next thing you know, we’ll be outlawing cars!
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Eye Jacker…next thing you know, we’ll be outlawing cars!
You know, Brian, I think I could build a statistically supported argument for doing just that very thing! 
A few observations, and things I have heard over the years:
People like to blame the guns. It is the gun that brings the trouble to town. The person behind it, using it gets out of jail earlier and earlier because they have been “Rehabilitated.” Right.
“If a person is looking to die in battle, they will darn sure find a way to make it happen.” Joe Penaz used this line in our class. It is a great line! It goes to waht was being said about walking around in gang turf, bad or seedy areas. You DON”T GO THERE if you don’t have to! But if your car breaks down, or some other circumstance leads you there, you may be out of luck without protection. God knows the bad guys will have it. I work in Chicago/Milwaukee/Dallas/Denver/Toronto. I cannot know all the bad areas in all of these cities. Some of these cities I can carry in. Others banned guns. It amazes me how many gun murders I hear about when I go to these cities.
“If I had a gun, I would…..” When I hear this conversation start, I end it as quickly as it started. Anyone I know that CC’s does not talk that way.
People that CC are usually the most conciencious and curtious driver on the road. They understand what would happen if the crap hit the fan, and they are carrying. Confrontation is not worth it. CC’ers (With the exception of Jon J. Just kidding!) Are very courtious to LEO’s. CC’ers are usually very careful about copping an attitude, and getting in someone’s face over anything. It is just not worth it.
The bravado and taunting I hear comes by those who are against CC, and use these arguments without substantiating their claims.
Tuck
Nope, can’t show documented statistics on my statement. Can you show me some from an unbiased source showing a reduction in crime due to CC? An opinion is just that, an opinion. You all seem to think that each person who will qualify for CC is a fine, upstanding citizen with nothing but self protection in mind. It won’t be that way. Plenty of people who won’t be excluded from CC due to felonies, mental illness, etc. will be armed. I would agree that MOST people with a CC will be good, law abiding citizens. I just don’t see why we all need to have a handgun on us. The Second Amendment? I get concerned when we sportsmen/women use this reason for our right to own guns. If you read the amendment it does not state that every citizen has the right to walk around armed. It states that the states have a right to a militia in order to insure a secure free state. As long as we have a Supreme Court leaning to the right, this issue will never be contested successfully. If the court ever ends up leaning the other way it could be. I would like gun owners not to always scream it is our right, but rather show through our actions that owning guns in and of itself is not a bad thing. I think that most here are extrapolating their views as sportsmen to that of the general public. Most people have never touched a gun, much less fired one.
When will this issue come up for vote again?
Who ever said everyone will be armed? A tiny percentage of people who wish to take on the responsibility will apply. Those who can handle it.
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