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and i’ll bet they did all this to bring up the price of futures
How does one “schedule” one of the most devestating storms of the century and steer it into an area responsible for a huge portion of the fuel refinement and distribution in this country?
Well since obviously, since Bush blows, and Cheney sucks, if they start doing this too fast, it creates a vortex of spinning air that will turn into a hurricane. 
Don’t ya know James? This was a “black helicopter” conspiracy by the oil tycoons to put the off shore rigs in the gulf, so when storms came in, they could raise the price!!!!
Look;
Do you really want to get mad about oil/gas prices, and the ridiculous amount of money these “oil tycoons” are making???
Then justify why my brother makes just shy of $100,000 a year, as an “Operator” in the Flint Hills Hydrogen plant. He has no college education. It is not a dangerous job. There is no risk.
Then justify why I made $1000 a week in 1990 as a “tank blaster” during “turn-around” at the same refinery. My job was to go into the big tanks with water jet guns and clean them out.
Justify the wages that the Union employee make at these refineries………
A flippin doctor fresh out of 8 years of school only makes about $40,000 to $60,000 a year, yet the Union guy is getting $100,000?????
Go talk to the employes at Flint Hills. OR, Go down to Frank’s Bar or Wally’s Roundup in Hampton and talk to the contractors from out of state. They are in the bar each night after work. These contractor employes are making thousands of dollars a week, by doing general maintenace in the facility that the Union employees are “too good to do”.
EVERYONE involed in this oil business is making butt-loads of money. Yep, the owners are getting rich. And if you don’t like it, then go buy your own oil rig and make some money. There is no reason why you can’t buy your own oil well.
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How does one “schedule” one of the most devestating storms of the century and steer it into an area responsible for a huge portion of the fuel refinement and distribution in this country?
With a Joy Stick ? I’ll bet 
(easy on the bullets guys 
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Steve, it would appear that you are spending way to much time a day using that 150 calories an hour!
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Steve, it would appear that you are spending way to much time a day using that 150 calories an hour!
That explains these headaches! 
Steve, any truth to the rumor that you have lost 136 pounds since starting this exercise program? 
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Steve, any truth to the rumor that you have lost 1.36 pounds since starting this exercise program?
I’ve fixed your post to more accuratly represent the success of my new diet plan. I suppose I should switch to an Ultra-light beer, but Coors doesn’t make one that I know about.
Gary, any nurse fresh out of school make that amount leaving me to believe a doc would do a tad better.
You are one of the few that actually seem happy and defensive for the recent (year or two) fuel prices. I don’t get it. 
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Gary, any nurse fresh out of school make that amount leaving me to believe a doc would do a tad better.
I’m telling ya, Docs don’t make fortunes right away, fresh out of school. They have to get their residency first. Generally first year docs make between 40 to 60 grand. I work with people’s salary every day and have access to multitudes of information on average salaries made by all positions. The “average” doctor in Dakota County makes $86,000 a year. That is the “average Joe Doc”. Not the average wage for first year Docs.
I can’t say I’m happy about the huge increase in gas prices. It sucks, and it hurts the pocket book. I’m driving my wife’s Mitsubishi Lancer intead of my truck, and it doesn’t fit me very well. But I’m adjusting to the cost of living.
But I will state strong that I’m for free market. If we put government controls over oil, what is next??? Government (I mean DNR) controls over James and this website? He has capilized on the river walleye, hasn’t he? He has the river walleye knowledge that we don’t. He has capitalized the walleye river plastics. “WE”, meaning you and me, as a fisherman don’t get to reap his rewards, because he figured out a million dollar idea. Because of his hard work, he deserves what he has, and now, because he capitalized on it and is making a living off of “us”, let’s not beat him up for it, because we want it.
No different than oil.
No different than any other private money making business. Let them make their money. If they over-price themselves, then people will cut back on the usage, only hurting themselves.
If James or any other guide over-price themselves, they won’t get the business. Or, their business will get cut back and they loose money. The same will happen with oil. Again, we had $1.25 gas in 1982 and the average joe was making $15000/year. Today, gas has not quite trippled, but the average household income has more than trippled. AND the average home price has more than quadrupled!!!!
As far as it all relates to our current economy, gas has been underpriced when you compare the inflation of everything else.
Gary,
I bet you could sell paint to Sherwin Williams. A good deal of the infrastructure in the oil industry was paid for by the tax payer. Free market is one thing. Monopolies and manipulations of the market are quite another. The last energy bill they are so proud of gives our tax money to the industry.
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The last energy bill they are so proud of gives our tax money to the industry.
It does? Where? Show me. I’m not saying it doesn’t, I just want to see you research your way to ONE CITED example. Call it for kicks.
James H. posted the prices of gas in other countries which, is wonderful to know. How many of those countries pay 100% health care? What other perks to they get? Housing? income? That really peaves me off when we get compared to a counrty and they don’t give you all the facts!!! 
James,post the rest of the facts please, and then we will evaluate the price of their fuel. Because if I had the $300 to $400 a month I spend in health care cost, I would be happy to pay $4 a gallon for gas.
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James H. posted the prices of gas in other countries which, is wonderful to know. How many of those countries pay 100% health care? What other perks to they get? Housing? income? That really peaves me off when we get compared to a counrty and they don’t give you all the facts!!!
I said I was going to post the price of fuel in other countries and that’s what I did. There are no other “facts.” I did not claim to be posting all the various price influences that determine the price of fuel in other countries.
You want a perk…? How about fuel prices still 25% – 50% cheaper than most of the stinkin’ industrialized world?
European counties offering health care to all citizens also tax their citizens at a much higher rate than here in the US. And they also “enjoy” much higher rates of unemplyment too.
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That really peaves me off when we get compared to a counrty and they don’t give you all the facts!!!
Really? You’d be happy to pay $4 for gas?
I did some digging. In 2004 German citizens, a country often cited for having universal health care for all citizens, paid over 40% of GDP (gross domestic product) in as corporate and individual taxes.
http://www.finfacts.com/Private/tax/taxationeuropeanunion25.htm
In 2004 the citizens and corporations in the good ol’ US of A paid in 18% of GDP.
http://www.heritage.org/research/features/issues2004/taxes.cfm
So for your “priveledge” of universal health care they get to TAKE an addition 20% of your money… and STILL make you pay $6 a gallon for fuel.
Those sir, are some FACTS.
Just looking for the facts James, they may pay a higher rate of taxes but what’s their income?? This means nothing to me if I don’t have an income to compare it to. Why state something when you don’t have all the facts. All I’m saying is why compare apples to oranges? No need to get upset. Thanks 
emtbucket, I like the “Nom De Guerre”.
Upset? I wasn’t and am not upset.
Would you like me to find out the tax rate for the average income for a German and compare it to the average income for an american? Actually, you could do that yourself. Pick an income level… tax schedules are online for all european countries. What you will find is that countries that offer universal health care tax their citizens at a much higher rate than US citizens are taxed… and their fuel prices are higher.
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Just looking for the facts James, they may pay a higher rate of taxes but what’s their income?? This means nothing to me if I don’t have an income to compare it to. Why state something when you don’t have all the facts.
emtbucket, that is a very perspicacious question, please list the USA incomes you wish to compare! 
[quoteWell since obviously, since Bush blows, and Cheney sucks, if they start doing this too fast, it creates a vortex of spinning air that will turn into a hurricane.
Now that’s funny… I don’t care who ya’ are. (Or who you vote for!)
Through my minds eye most of what i’ve read is accurate. Its not surprising that the prices for fuel are where thier at. All im saying in general terms is that whoevers responsible for not making plans to make sure we didn’t end up like this sure as heck didn’t do thier homework. I can’t see why something like building another refinery along the gulf coast or anywhere for that matter wasen’t done to make sure things like this don’t happen after the 70’s fuel crunch. Back 10 to 15 years ago, especially down south along the gulf coast where local politics could care less about the epa and its rules, a refinery could have been built and a huge one at that. Industries just aren’t that stupid not to forsee demands in the future, even a close demand for fuel of a 5 year forcast. I lived down there and the epa has its rules but im telling everyone the gulf coast and its money has more power than you could imiagine and could care less about the epa rules. Hell refineries and chemicle plants are blowing up all the time we just don’t hear about it up here, almost everybody knows a family that has lost a relative from a plant explosion. They do what they want there when it comes to chemicle plants. They have a phonebook bigger than the st.paul and minneapolis directories put together just of the chemicle plants in the houston area. Yes the refinery industries have thier own phone book. They have so much power down there they can do what they want when they want. The epa’s tight rules for building and maintaining the atmosphere and the water etc. dosen’t mean much at all to them, just ask them, this sounds crazy but its true. You should see the burn off of excess chemicles that are burning all the time from almost every chemicle plant right up thier smoke stacks 24 hrs a day. Alot of times the air you breath is rancid with chemicles, the leaves turn brown and fall off the trees in the matter of a few days because of the dangerous releases they make in the middle of the night and no one or a refinerie is ever charged, ever!. These chemicle plants and refineries do what they want all day and all night long. They are constantly building chemicle plants that are just as dangerous and more dangerous than an oil refinerie all the time because the old ones are wearing out or being phased out because of its antiquated design. The epa has nothing to do with a refinerie being built along the gulf coast, if they wanted one they would build one, trust me. They hate the epa down there and thier not afraid to let you know it eigther. Building another refinerie is a simple task for them and always has been and believe me they have the money to do it. If the oil industry would have built a refinerie or two in the last 10 to 15 years the plants wouldn’t have to run at near capacity levels or over these levels and theres a reson why i just don’t know what it is. Ive seen thier building of these plants and thier scale of what size they are and i hope i don’t urine anyone off but to me theres another reason why they haven’t built atleast one oil refinerie in the last 15 years and too me its not because of the amount of crude available. It makes more sense to have all the refineries running at 70% then the ones that are running now at capacity or over capacity, thats just not good engineering principles especially when these things blow up all the time and they do. I could tell you stories about explosins down there you wouldn’t believe, heres just one, a frighter blew up and the explosin blew the anchor 20 miles away and they made a land mark from it. This was along time ago but explosins are common place there and everybody lives with it. If they wanted to build one especially within the last 15 years they would have. Another reason that i know that has nothing to do with building one is its not the labor costs, skilled labor makes half of what we make up here. Pipe welders are at the top of the scale and our wages up here are almost unheard of. Big business down there has skilled labor buy the nu– and they know it.
Does anyone remember when gas hit $1 a gallon?
I do it was 1978 27 years ago the year I graduated from high school, I could not believe it was going to cost me $18 to fill up my 1967 Plymouth Belvedere
When you stop and think about it a $2 increase in 27 years is not bad compared to the rate of the cost of living in general. Do not get me wrong I do not like paying $3 a gallon for gas anymore than the next guy, but tonight as I sit here on the computer and watch on tv what the hurricane victims are going through, most of them are lucky to walk away with the shirts on there back, paying $3 a gallon for gas seems very insignificant compared to what they are going through.
Come on guys lets all dig deep and Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
I am with you James I can not wait until the full moon!
See ya on the 18th! 
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James, where do you find time to fish? In between research??
I guide in “streaks” so I can flip back and forth between my responsibilities here on the site and actually making a living. My next streak will be up to mille lacs the middle of the month. Full moon walleyes baby… YEAH! Regardless of the price of gas.
OK, I’m done stirring the pot. Now if we all spent as much time devolping a pertolem alterative as we do complaining about it, we could find one.Instead of finding a way to lower the price,lets find a way to use less !!!! then the gas price would not be such an issue. Next time you are stuck in traffic look at how many cars have one person in them and then ask yourself why?? So what is the answer? I don’t and if I did, I would be a rich man sippin a cocktail on my own Island somewhere. Lets start a thread on how to use less pertroleum, that would be much more constructive don’t you think? 
James,
can’t believe you are posting all these replies whether or not I agree. Thought you were a fisherman (damm good) and this was a fishing board. Time for FISHTHERIVER.COM. I always hated the name change.
Chuck
Buy ethonol if you can. Theres alot of E-85% autos out there that can burn that and i guess from what i’ve heard on the radio, minnesota is full of e-85 vehicles. Alot of people don’t know thier vehicles are 85% effecient and they don’t have to be brand new to be this kind of vehicle. 85% ethonol 15% gasoline. Thats 85% made here and 15% made over there fuel for our vehicles.
Correct me if I am wrong but ADM is in the politicians pockets and it costs much more to produce 85% ethanol then plain old gas. Ironically, it also causes more pollution.
Again, I may be wrong and hope ethanol provides some solutions, but from what I have read it is exactly the opposite.
I like to talk about all sorts of things besides fishing. Actually if you knew me you’d know that its actually pretty hard to get me to talk about fishing, particularly in person. I guess I’m trying to say I tend to be diverse in my interests.
But this is the general discussion… all topics fair game. If you don’t want to read posts about gas, don’t click on posts about gas.
About fishing… I haven’t been on the river in 3 weeks or so and really don’t even look forward to being back on pool 4 until november. Mille Lacs will keep me busy… starting in 2 weeks.
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can’t believe you are posting all these replies whether or not I agree. Thought you were a fisherman (damm good) and this was a fishing board. Time for FISHTHERIVER.COM. I always hated the name change.
ya fish, ive heard that too, that its subsadized by the feds, who knows,
From FOXNews. com
The $500 million offer by Kuwait — which owes its 1991 liberation from seven months of occupation by Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi army to a U.S.-led coalition — is the largest to date, surpassing the $100 million pledged by Qatar, another U.S. ally in the Mideast.
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James,
Thanks for posting the other countries prices. Did Kuwait ever give us anything for returning their country to them?
I had a few beverages with my brother over the weekend, at our father’s 81st B-day!!!! Happy B-day pops!!!
Anyways, my brother is an operator for Flint Hills refinery south of the metro. Flint Hills used to be known as “Koch Oil”.
So, here are some bullet points………
The shortage is refined gas, not crude. That is the cause of our major prices.
There is ground work for a new refinery in Arizona. It will take about 2 years to complete. This will assist in generating enough gas out of the crude to meet our demands.
Flint Hills is working on an addition to generate more gas. It is all preliminary and no ground work has been started yet.
EPA regulations are slowing the ground work.
Currently, Flint Hills is making between $5 and $6 million a day in profits from the higher gas prices.
Some refineries are breaking even, not everyone is making money. That is why we have the higher prices. Some refineries purchased “futures” (bought today’s crude 6 months ago at the wrong price), that is why they are only breaking even and no profits occuring.
When a refinery buys wrong, they jack up their price to break even. This allows other refineries who bought “right” to sell at a higher price and make profits.
It takes approximatley 3 hours for Flint Hills to turn incoming Crude, out of the pipe to Gas in a tanker. Turnaround of the product is very fast. Some formulas required do take longer.
Flint Hills provides approximately 50% of the gas for the state of Minnesota. 25% comes from the “Ashland” refinery out of South St. Paul, which is now, I believe called “Marathon”. The remaining 25% comes from a refinery outside of Chicago.
This might be a dumb question but…How does the crude oil get to any refinery? Pipelines or trucks?
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