Holy Gas!!

  • jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #381646

    I don’t know about the farmers exports going up so much, but I would have to think that the cost of the ethanol that is used in the gas we all burn will be costing the gasoline makers a bit more. Why shouldn’t it. It is going to cost the farmers alot more in fuel to harvest this year’s crops. 10% ethanol in a gallon of gas is 10% no mater if that gallon costs $1.50 or $4.50 at the pump. The farmers should be allowed their fair % of the increased price.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #381647

    Jack;

    On top of the massive fuel cost for harvesting, you also have the enormous fuel cost for drying corn.

    But all is good. I wouldn’t worry too much about the average farmer. There is enough subsides from the Gov to take care of them. There is already going to be claims turned in because of the dry weather we have had in our area. We have some really poor looking crops around here.

    koldfront kraig
    Coon Rapids mn
    Posts: 1816
    #381654

    Dave you kill me!

    Your sharp tongue and sarcasm usually get me to snort with laughter. Anyone who happened to be walking by my office probably thinks I’m insane. Hold on while I wipe the snot that’s half out of my left nostril.

    Skhatke,

    If I remember right in the 80’s it seemed more important to people to get better fuel economy with there vehicles. Although I wasn’t old enough to drive, I remember the shortage of gas in the 70’s and I think that influenced the automakers into building more efficient cars.

    About 8 years ago I was looking at new trucks. I noticed that most of them only got about 16-18 mph. I asked the salesman why they didn’t make a truck that got better mileage. He said to me – gas is cheap nobody cares about fuel economy.

    Gary is right. What we have here is a bunch of spoiled rich Americans crying about the cost of playing. I caught a lot of crap for saying the same thing on another fishing web site a couple of months ago, but I believe it. I don’t like the rising cost of gas but I can deal with it.

    I figure I don’t need to eat out for lunch 5 days a week any more if I want a little extra money for fishing expenses.

    juggs
    The biggest nightcrawler bed in all of Minneapolis
    Posts: 189
    #381656

    Sure I see that, ERonn, but my point is that we blow so much money on things we absolutely don’t need, then we complain when the price of something goes up more than we’re comfortable with, claiming “I can’t afford it.” The fact is, we CAN afford it, we just don’t want to give up the petty luxuries in return. I don’t like the high prices either. I just go soooo tired of the richest people in the world complaining over a relatively minor bump in the road. I won’t be making my weekly trip to pool 4 this weekend (unless gas drops way down…..yeah, right) but I’m not complaining about it. I’ve had it so good for so long. Maybe the jig is finally up. Like James said, we’re just now paying for gas what the rest of the world pays.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #381661

    Well I am not insane. On a positive note I did read that the EPA is throwing out that crap about boutique fuels. That is a step in the right direction. I must be awefully close to the mark for so many to respond to me.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381664

    Quote:


    I must be awefully close to the mark for so many to respond to me.


    I guess that’s one way you could look at it.

    The reality is that most of us are stunned that someone could be so misinformed so consistently.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381666

    Quote:


    On a positive note I did read that the EPA is throwing out that crap about boutique fuels.


    Not being forced to formulate dozens of different fuel blends will certainly help refineries keep up with demand. I had not heard this was taking place but I’ll be off in a flash after this post to see what I can dig up on the subject.

    juggs
    The biggest nightcrawler bed in all of Minneapolis
    Posts: 189
    #381667

    James, where do you find time to fish? In between research??

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381668

    Here’s what I found…

    “Ryan succeeded in placing in the energy bill would halt the proliferation of “boutique” – or highly specialized – fuels and require the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the U.S. Department of Energy to submit a study to Congress within a year recommending legislative changes to create an improved federal fuels system that maximizes supply, enhances efficiency, decreases price volatility and promotes air quality.”

    Ryan Plan

    Where we’re at now is we’re waiting for a plan, due a year from this past April, on how to solve this problem. Unless I missed a more recent announcement that I was unable to find.

    eyejacker
    Hudson, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1890
    #381669

    Hey Whiskeykeg, I see you hail from the same city as the University of Wisconsin, the number one party school in the nation. What time of day do you guys start partying anyway or is it non stop? I do give you credit though for consistency, as your political posts consistently remain devoid of facts (or any reasonable facsimile thereof) and it does not seem to slow you down a bit. Also, the vitriol of the George Soros, Michael Moore and Howard Dean types seems to be consistently present! Let me, with all due respect, suggest refining your fact finding technique at least to the point of including some occasionally!

    blue-fleck
    Dresbach, MN
    Posts: 7872
    #381670

    James Holst—a.k.a. “The Gas Man”

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #381671

    Quote:


    Where we’re at now is we’re waiting for a plan, due a year from this past April, on how to solve this problem. Unless I missed a more recent announcement that I was unable to find.


    I think I actually saw it on cnn.com or somewhere today that Bush has temporarily revoked requirements in the south and mayeb other areas. I am trying to fake actually working now so i don’t have time to look it up, but try cnn.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381673

    Quote:


    James, where do you find time to fish? In between research??


    I guide in “streaks” so I can flip back and forth between my responsibilities here on the site and actually making a living. My next streak will be up to mille lacs the middle of the month. Full moon walleyes baby… YEAH! Regardless of the price of gas.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381675

    Thanks Moss. Actually the Ryan Plan gave that authority to the EPA already… to revoke blend requirements during times of shortage or crisis.

    I’ll check CNN.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #381676

    I agree with Gary on this, however it does sting when I look at the price every time I pass a gas station. I’ll adjust, I always do.

    So, let’s put this in perspective. We have thousands of fellow americans who have just been transplanted from their homes. Sit back and picture the town you grew up in, all you can see is roof tops due to the flooding. You’re missing family members, no way to contact them, and the simplest of things like flushing a toilet or getting a glass of water is a luxury.

    Now complain about $3.00 per gallon to me. Spew your political right or left wing garbage, blame anyone and everyone. Our economy is going to be affected, no doubt. I hate to tell you this, mother nature isn’t listening.

    I don’t like this whining, we all have it pretty darn good right now!!!! I challenge each and every one of you to NOT go on one fishing trip you planned this month. Take that money saved and put it towards your most heartfelt charity. You not only conserved gas, but you did something good for the world!

    I’m off the box.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381685

    I couldn’t find any info on a suspension of blend requirements but I did find this article on CNN that seems to get a quick and dirty look at factors influencing fuel prices… and what to expect in the short term.

    Gov’t may end refinery moratorium

    I also found this quote interesting…

    Quote:


    The Consumer Federation of America, which is normally a critic of Big Oil, said Thursday that $3 gasoline was justified, given current market conditions.


    clintm
    mazeppa mn
    Posts: 177
    #381700

    If you think driving a car is expensive fuel oil for the furnace is 2.40 and rising ouch

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #381716

    I know some of the sane reasoning used by the people who set these prices is its time too slow down on oil consumpution in our every day lives and that its good for us which does make some sense to the point of trimming our use from extravagant to useful and economy minded. Has anyone heard of the huge oil find that they are now building a pipeline in the area of approx. azerbizan, this might not be the country but its close by. Its not a soviet possession country. This pipeline is for this oil reserviour and its supposed to be the 3rd largest oil find of all time, ever with a huge amount of oil in it. This just happens to be right next door to Iraq in muslim countries. I heard a report two years ago where they were going to send experts from an oil company to search for the oil thats susspected to be in huge amounts in Iraq and that at this time its suspected that less than half the oil is discovered in Iraq. What im getting at is they could have done this along time ago. The demand for oil hasen’t jumped up at the same ratio that demands the price to double in about a year. Im not an expert at math ratios but i can see whats going on. The demand definately dosen’t justify the price were paying. I know what im going to look for and thats the same percentage ratio of rise in recent months to see if it drops that much after the refineries down south get back online. I can see what people are saying about the oil thats know to remain, but its the only oil thats known to exist, what about the billions of barrells thats not discovered yet, i’d bet theres billions of barrells thats left to be discovered. I think part of the reason that theres a price jump is because of the push for hydrogen power thats an unlimited supply and easy to produce plus the very agressive building thats going on in the States here for more ethonol. The saudis and the countries of the east haven’t got the capacity to produce the huge amounts that we can because they are semi desert or full desert, oil is thier thier only income, they don’t grow or can grow anything to make ethonol in the amounts needed. I think like this,, when i welded in thew oil fields of wyoming and found out just in that one state theres enough oil to last America 100 years and the known oil in the rest of the country in reserve plus all the known oil in other countries plus all the undiscovered oil in the world i just can’t see this huge dabilitating jump in the recent prices. I know some of what im saying is speculation but what about the oil thats been discovered and that no one knows about except the few and will sell it after the price is right. I’ll bet theres alot of countries with discoveries that only a few have heard about. I know theres a finite limit of oil in the world but i think were quite a ways off of getting low compared to the recent oil price rises. The only reason they haven’t built more refineries is because they didn’t want to drop the price of oil in the last 30 years so the oil involved can make all the money they can. If they wanted to build more they could have and a whole lot cheaper price then today, how expensive is it going to be tomorrow to build them, this not building more of them has slowed down progress in America. I think that if we knew the actual amount of oil, no streching the truth involed it would be diffrent than what were led to believe. Nothing justifies the recent price jumps because they all could have planned ahead.

    cherilovell
    Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1495
    #381725

    Green calls on EPA to waive gas blend requirements

    By FREDERIC J. FROMMER
    Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. Rep. Mark Green wants the Environmental Protection Agency to temporarily waive reformulated gas mandates for southeast Wisconsin, arguing that lifting the anti-pollution requirement would help minimize rising gas prices caused by Hurricane Katrina.

    In a letter to EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson Thursday, Green, R-Wis., said the agency took a good first step Wednesday by allowing less expensive winter blends to be sold nationwide by temporarily waiving a requirement for less volatile “summer gasoline.”

    “However, there is more that can be done to bring relief for Wisconsin consumers at the pump,” wrote Green, who is seeking the Republican nomination for governor in 2006. “… This situation demands the use of every tool at our disposal to combat the rising gas prices and bring relief to consumers at the pump.”

    Later in the day, Gov. Jim Doyle announced he was sending a waiver request to the EPA as well.

    “It is clear that a waiver by the EPA will open up other sources of supply for Wisconsin and help us be able to get the supply of gasoline that we need,” Doyle said at a news conference in Madison.

    Disruptions caused by the hurricane have pushed gas prices above $3 per gallon in Wisconsin and other parts of the country.

    Because of high ozone levels in southeastern Wisconsin, gas stations there must sell cleaner-burning – and more expensive – reformulated gasoline blends to bring air pollution levels down.

    An EPA spokeswoman, Eryn Witcher, said the agency is reviewing Green’s request. Witcher said the EPA is confident that the switch to winter blend gas will help improve gas supply.

    “EPA technical experts are currently working to determine if additional steps are needed and would be helpful,” she said.

    Brett Hulsey, the Madison-based Midwest representative for the Sierra Club, criticized Green’s proposal.

    “Now’s the time to be helping the families and victims of Katrina, not trying to score political points by trying to weaken our clean air protections,” Hulsey said.

    Hulsey claimed that a waiver would “result in more asthma attacks, more heart attacks and more preventable premature deaths.”

    Responded Green: “We have an emergency. Our economy is getting hit hard. We need to take bold measures on a temporary basis. Unfortunately, Mr. Hulsey is apparently not willing to do anything to help drivers and businesses at a time when help is desperately needed.”

    But Green said it was hard to predict how much money consumers would save at the pump.

    Green called Hulsey’s warnings about air quality “ridiculous. We’re dealing with a short-term situation in which drastic measures are necessary.”

    cherilovell
    Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1495
    #381726

    Attorney general pushes to ban gas price gouging, announces probe

    By JR ROSS

    Associated Press Writer

    MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager pushed Thursday for a new law to ban price gouging in Wisconsin and announced a multi-state investigation into what’s behind skyrocketing gas prices in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

    Gov. Jim Doyle announced a series of steps he was taking in response to the rising prices, while groups representing oil companies and retailers said the spiraling costs were the result of natural market forces and nothing more.

    “With high demand and limited supply, prices tend to rise,” said Erin Roth, executive director of the Wisconsin Petroleum Council that represents major oil companies.

    Prices in many parts of the state zoomed past $3 a gallon and showed few signs of easing. Wisconsin law prohibits retailers from increasing the price of gas more than once in a 24-hour period or charging motorists more than the advertised price when they pull into a station. But there is no limit on how much retailers can increase prices.

    Lautenschlager said she was working with two Democratic lawmakers to change that. Republican legislative leaders did not return calls from The Associated Press Thursday seeking comment.

    “Those who would prey on people in desperate times are among the lowest of the low and should be dealt with harshly,” said Lautenschlager, a Democrat.

    She also announced a joint probe with attorneys general in Illinois and Iowa to determine if the rise of gas prices has been caused by artificial manipulation.

    The three attorneys general, along with counterparts in Missouri and Michigan, also called upon the Federal Trade Commission to do its own investigation and monitor gas prices nationwide.

    Bob Bartlett, president of the Wisconsin Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Store Association, said he was disappointed people would assume the rise in prices means retailers are gouging their customers.

    He said retailers are at the mercy of the costs they see from their suppliers, and many are seeing a bigger jump in the price they pay to get the gas than what they’re passing on to consumers.

    “I know of many retailers around the state that are selling the product they purchased for less than the purchase prices,” Bartlett said.

    Roth said he’s already been in contact with the attorney general’s office and given her a list of more than 30 previous investigations by state and federal governments, all of which have cleared oil companies of any price gouging.

    But Karen Suggs doesn’t think that’s possible this time. The certified nursing assistant was putting $15 worth of gas in her minivan Thursday afternoon in Madison – just enough to get her by.

    “It jumped up too fast,” she said. “As soon as they had the hurricane, the prices went up.”

    Doyle sent a letter to the Environmental Protection Administration asking for a waiver of federal requirements that seven southeastern counties sell specially formulated gas to cut air pollution. The blend is typically more expensive than regular gas.

    Other steps announced by Doyle to address rising gas prices included:

    -a bipartisan task force on energy to find long-term solutions to high costs.

    -supporting legislation to require gasoline sold in Wisconsin to be 10 percent ethanol, which is normally cheaper than regular gas.

    -directing the State Patrol to honor a federal waiver on how much truckers drive to help ensure there are no problems trucking gas into Wisconsin.

    -directing state agencies to keep close watch on retailers to ensure no one violates state laws at the pump.

    Doyle said he also would strongly consider the anti-gouging law Lautenschlager and Democratic lawmakers were proposing.

    “The real issue we have to come to terms with quickly is who’s making this money, and I really don’t want to see people profiting off the misery of others,” said Doyle, a Democrat

    tony_p
    Waterloo, IA
    Posts: 1792
    #381727

    Mossydan an eyeguide you guy’s couldnt of said it better.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #381729

    I heard one time how much oil one of the super tankers holds, it was like a million barrels for one ship and we use one tanker a day in america is what abc news said. theres got to be more than 100 days of oil left or am i missing something here.

    LazyEyez
    Arcadia, WI
    Posts: 353
    #381738

    Quote:


    I heard one time how much oil one of the super tankers holds, it was like a million barrels for one ship and we use one tanker a day in america is what abc news said. theres got to be more than 100 days of oil left or am i missing something here.


    Crude isn’t the issue, as that has been covered. The problem is the ability to produce. Refinery’s before the storm were @ 106% of capacity. Now considering the Colonial Pipeline (which runs through the south, southeast, and up towards Maryland) was currently down for 3 days is now up and running @ 25% capacity will helps tons. The south/SE by the end of the weekend should be supplying its own blends to cover their own supply. What is currently happening is that Midwest Suppliers are transporting fuel too the south to keep them upright. Fuel prices will stabalize (we’ve seen that already), Bush did a great thing by lifting EPA rules regarding Hybrid Fuels in certain markets, and the allowing of “Red Dyed” Diesels for OTR Trucking, and the releasing of SPR’s (Strategic Petroleum Reserves), plus OPEC’s releasing an additional 1.5 Million B/D allowed the market price to hold steady. Do not look for much of a change in the price of fuel through Sept ($3-3.25 will be a good price) but come October provided no more Natural Disasters happen we will see a correction in the price. $2.60-$2.75 will be about as good as we can ask for. Building reserves for Winter Heating Oil use is what will hold the price high.

    Again, crude is not the issue but converting crude to usable fuel is the concern. Crude oil cannot be looked at as being North America -vs- Middle East and Bush’s stake in Texas Oil really has no bearing in the market price. The reality is that Oil or Corn or whatever is traded is based on Market Value’s or Futures. If the USA ever got into just using North American crude, the price of OIL or GAS would be drastically higher than what it is today. Globalization keeps the price (eventhough high) extremely fair.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #381753

    and i’ll bet they did all this to bring up the price of futures, Its all a money game. Everybody brings the prices up by putting less oil on the market. I wish i knew what they really had in mind by bringing prices up, the real reasons.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #381777

    I do remember a few weeks ago all the politicians were saying there was nothing they could do. The supply the demand the chinese blah blah blah. All of the sudden, We don’t need boutique fuels anymore, gas taxes may be suspended, the reserves are released, and OPEC may up their production. When the heat comes up the politicians start working. Yes Madtown is the number one party school. I know that from experience as I am a Badger alumni. Go Badgers. Oh and I can’t really afford to go anywhere this weekend but I just scratched a hundred bones to the Red Cross anyway. I hope the rest of you big oil apologists can reach deep down into your campain contributions and do the same. Have a good and safe labor day everyone.

    skhartke
    Somerset, WI
    Posts: 1416
    #381823

    Slop, aint that the truth.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #381824

    Quote:


    and i’ll bet they did all this to bring up the price of futures


    How does one “schedule” one of the most devestating storms of the century and steer it into an area responsible for a huge portion of the fuel refinement and distribution in this country?

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