Gas Prices

Driveing down HWy 65 on the north side of town this morning prices where in the $1.90s. On the way home at noon most where at $2.15.

Watched a debait on the tube the other day about ethonal. The pros and cons sound just like what has been stated in the post above this one. Good for farmers. Not dependent on foreign oil. Costs to much energy to make. One point that I thought very interisting was that ethanol was suposed to have a shelf life. Not sure of what it was but there was alot of talk about not being to produce the stuff and let it sit like we do with oil now. This would also be bad for uses like boat motors and other motors that can see longer periods between use.
I agree with the good ideas behind ethonal but it sounds like maybe this is not the right time to force it down our tanks. Maybe as the techknowledgy gets better things could change.

How many of you armchair investors bought Oil futures, when it was trading for ~ 15.00/barrel

Hmmm a gas and oil man in the white house and you folks are surprised the gas prices are through the roof. Nothing can be done according to Bush. Clinton dumped the strategic oil reserves on the market when the oil people started fixing the prices. The real people taking the hit are the tourism industry. As an example, I drove two hours every weekend to fish my beloved river. This year I can’t even come close to that many trips. No Falling Rock Pizzas, or drinks or bait or guides or anything. It affects the best people, and lines the pockets of the worst people. As a country we will never learn that we should stop putting Texas oil barrons in the white house.

Clinton dumping the strategic oil reserves was a dangerous and irresponsible act that endangered the the US!

Plain and simple. The reason the price of gas has gone up is simple supply/demand. This country has not built a new refinery in 20+ years. Why? The liberal Dems and tree hugger won’t allow it! All of our refineries are running a 100% output. Demand has not magically stopped over the last 20 years.

Not to mention 1 billion Chinees who would rather be driving a car than riding a bike now! More demand than ever and it is not magically going to change.

Bush has attempted to fix this problem, but get stopped in his tracks at every level. That’s why we are burning a gallon and a half of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. Why. Liberal subsidies to farmers and the Alternative fuel movement. Sorry, not gunna work in the long run.

Now, lets look at Mr. John Kerry’s campaign proposal for a 50 cent to a $1.00 a gallon tax on gas to pay for “Alternative Energy” research! And you think gas is expensive now…..

GGGGRRRRRRR>>>>>>>

-J.

Not only outboards but any older two cycle engines. The ethanol literally destroys the older gaskets, carb floats, etc. Ironically, the more research the less attractive ethanol becomes for several reasons including the differing types of pollution it causes visa-via non-ethanol gasoline.

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Although Ethanol gums up engines, its cleaner for enviornment and boosts farm jobs.

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Ethanol is more of a solvent than anything. It does not gum up engines, it does just the opposite. The problem with ethanol is the fact that it can have an adverse effect on rubber or plastic components over a period of time. For this reason, it is always good to use Sta-bil in tanks that don’t get used for a while, such as augers and snow blowers. I did a lot of research on this stuff when I was Hi-perfing my snowmobiles that were EFI. It takes more ethanol to achieve the same HP out of a motor. If you ran a regular gas EFI chip, a PSI Pipe, and ran ethanol, you would smoke your motor at around 105 MPH. Don’t ask me how I know! This is also why your MPG drops with the increased ethanol in you gas.
Tuck

Mr. Jordan,

Bush owns the house, senate, executive branch and holds hands and kisses the Saudi Prince. I took two guided trips the year Clinton did that and Gas was a whole lot cheaper then. If refineries are the problem why did dropping the oil reserves on the market have such an impact? I remember when companies like enron were bringing stuff offline on purpose to inflate the prices. They were caught red handed. many of those people and similar people are major Bush campain contributors. I think maybe if we phrased it right to the Saudi prince that they would fill up our strategic oil reserves for free.

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If refineries are the problem why did dropping the oil reserves on the market have such an impact?

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Obviously a tempoary fix to the problem. Do you think the country is using:

1. Less gas now that in 2000
2. Same amout of gas as in 2000
3. More gas than in 2000

Now, how many more refineries are there in the US?

The Saudies have already agreed to produce up to 2 million more barrels a day. But who cares? We can’t refine it!

If we could refine that extra 2 million a day, gas would drop to a buck a gallon. (Assuming the government doesn’t raise taxes!)

-J.

Jon is correct…

the reason gas is so high is because we can’t refine it fast enough. Thus driving demand and cost up. If you need documentation I will spend the time to provide it.

I’m just glad to see the prices slowly coming down.

Oh come on now Jon. They have more excuses than anyone. There are not enough refineries. There are too many environmental rules and fuel formulations. Demand is too high blah blah blah. Hand over your extra 5 bucks this week and next and next. If you are able to twist the consumers arm and get several million driving cars to hand you 5 bucks extra each week. Pure profit mind you. would you have any motivation to provide better service at a fair and reasonable price. You would put a large fence around your property. Hire some mercenaires and sit quietly purchasing the next election. Wag the dog. If oils service business is slow, open up a new market where the pipelines are in danger and need to be rebuilt each day. Lovely.

OK slop, I hear you too. I am sure you can document plenty. I know we don’t have enough refineries but nobody seems to try to build anymore of them. I am sure Jon will tell me about the tree huggers in Texas. Mom and pop will pay, Bushes campaign contributors rake it in. Didn’t I see something about record profits this year in the oil industry?

I think you would benefit from some research on the topic.

President Bush is currently sponsoring a plan to build (At least one) new refinery. Where you ask? On a military base free from the restrictions from the Dems. Everone who wants cheaper gas should get behind the plan!

You are not facing the FACTS!

There is not enough refineries.
There are too many rules on gas formulations.
Demand is higher than ever.

Despite what you may feel. There is no Wag the Dog. Really!

-J.

Mr Wiskerkev, you better start supplying some basis and documents to your slanderous allegations.

-J.

So we build one more refinery. Then they won’t have enough terminals to offload the oil quick enough. They come up with this stuff years before anything threatens their cash cows. I know you are passionate folks and believe in your convictions. I respect that. Calling a spade a spade is in order once in a while.

Maybe we should have another fake town hall meeting and discuss it.

$1.94 here in Rochester today. Unless it is a non-oxy pump all pumps in MN have 10% ethanol. 20% would be great for the farmers but not so great for outboards. I also use Sea Foam in every other tank full it has made a huge difference in the way my 40HP Evinrude runs. Before I started using Sea Foam I could never idle down to trolling speed without the motor killing on me.

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The way I understand it, all of the 10% pumps will go to 20%. The non-oxy tanks are almost always premium and costs more. Plus not every station sells non-oxy gas.

-J.

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Premium gas HAS ethanol in it. That is what makes it premium. Remember back in the old days when they used to call premium “Ethyl”? The unleaded gas I can buy in Hastings has no ethanol in it. It is not included in the 10% restriction because they state on the pump “This fuel can only be used in Classic Cars, Smowmobiles, Motorcycles, Boats or Lawn Mowers.”

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Has anyone else had issues w/ Holiday’s gas? I avoid their gas at all costs.

What issues Mike?

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Has anyone else had issues w/ Holiday’s gas? I avoid their gas at all costs.

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This time period will be considered the ‘golden years’, characterized by the gluttony of natural resources.

The higher gas prices sure make a person love their kicker motor. Now that they are coming down it means we get to fish more often, right? Now if I can just get the gas milege with my tow vehicle that I get with my little Geo things would be great.
Thanks, Bill

dad you got that right but the gas prices also makes a guy love his E-Tec with the E-Tec gas prices are not an issue
I haven’t figured out yet which one uses more gas my 8hp Evinrude 4 stoke or my 90 E-Tec
now if I could just figure out a way to quit burning up 60-80 gallons a week in my truck for work.
Think Evinrude will fix that problem for me too.
I guy can dream cant he.

Tuck, what stations in Hastings have no ethanol?

Jami

M&H had a pump, and I think the Phillips station on 55.

Steve,
I’ve read on another very large Fishing site that Holiday’s gas formulation is not good for outboard motors, or for most 2 cycle applications. My friend did some testing on his vehicle, with very similar driving situations, and received poor MPG compared to Phillips 66, Mobil, etc.

I run a lot of Holiday gas through my vehicles and boat, it’s the only station close to my house. I’ve never had an issue.

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Oh come on now Jon. They have more excuses than anyone. There are not enough refineries. There are too many environmental rules and fuel formulations. Demand is too high blah blah blah. Hand over your extra 5 bucks this week and next and next.

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Wiskerkev;

My brother is a Hydrogen Operator at Koch Oil south of St. Paul and my sister is a Sr. Buyer at Great Plains Gas company in Kansas City. We have this same discussion quite a bit, but it is still hard for me to comprehend the harsh fluctuations in gas prices.

It is all suppply and demand. The refineries are running at max capacity. They can’t produce anymore…… When the demand goes up, the prices go up and the refineries do benifit the rewards……But not all refineries benifit, for not all refineries have reserves to quick sell when the prices go up. A large reason why supply is limited lays in the 15 different gas formulas required to produce. That is just Koch oil, who supplies Holiday gas stations. So, if Koch can’t produce enough of the 15 formulas, then they have to buy off the market from say, Amoco. Amoco makes money selling wholesale gas at retail price. Koch isn’t going to suffer the loss, so they turn it over to the consumer. Now, Amoco gets to sell their gas for a higher dollar amount because Koch can’t produce and has to buy more expensive gas……

There is a refinery just outside of Chicago that cannot supply gas to Chicago. All because the refinery is not setup to produce the correct “formula” to meet Chicago’s EPA requirements.

That is where my sister comes into play with her buying/selling of raw gas. If she plays the market right and buys enough raw gas prior to when the prices go up, the company makes money. However, if she doesn’t buy right, the company looses money……

It is all supply and demand. Just like everything else in this world………..

I’m still kicking myself for not making the “BILLION DOLLAR IDEA” of bottling water and selling it for a buck a bottle!!!!!!! That, my good sir is a simple point of making BILLIONS of demand!!!!!!!

Everyone complains about the high prices of gas. Yet everytime they fill up, they walk out of the gas station with a $1 bottle of water, a $1.25 pack of gum, and a $.75 Krispy Kreme………

Good points.

I was surprised to see gas prices jump up yesterday after I filled both tanks from $1.86 to $2.09 a gallon. Worked out this time!

Hooks,
Yeah, you timed it well. Saw 2.15 in Eagan this morning.

Can anyone remember the days when gas went up/down (mostly up) by a FEW cents?

Gary,

All very good points and truthful. Sometimes well meaning environmental legislation ends up not being helpful. They bring out this supply and demand issue each time prices go up. Let me ask you this, Have you ever seen a gas station run out of gas due to supply issues? Hell I run an SUV and a boat and etc. I have no room to complain as I am a glutonous user of fossil fuel. I just get tired of the spin and excuses we hear each year from industry and political apologists. Tight lines everyone. Hunker down I think we can count on these kind of prices even higher until the next election cycle (2 years). Then all of the sudden those who couldn’t do anything about it will deliver cheaper fuels to kick the economy when they need it for their sound bites.