Wis. Natives busy netting Mille Lacs Lake

The problem I see with protesting on Mille Lacs is that you are stirring up NA that dont take there quota of fish.The bigger problem is the NA from Wisconsin.I honestly dont think that the Mille Lacs band even cares so much about the fish as they do the principal.Im sure they would rather have happy fishermen in there casino.Besides after the supreme court ruled on this I dont see how protests are going to do much good.One guy told me a long time ago that lived up there his whole life and has freinds in the tribe said if people would just give them some respect instead of trying to kick them around this problem would have been solved a long time ago.
As far as the state putting in a casino I doubt that will have any effect on netting.They will be going into bussiness with the NA from up north one being the red lake band wich netted and will probably continue to net red lake.It may cut into some of the profit but I doubt it will put them out of bussiness.

The only logical approach is for the Mille Lacs band to buy out the WI natives who do not have a casino, or the revenue.
Imagine the increase in business the Mille Lacs Casino would realize when the hatchet was buried over this issue!

Is there anyway on finding out how much fish each tribe takes from mn and wi?

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Besides after the supreme court ruled on this I dont see how protests are going to do much good.

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Castaway, That is a common missconcetion. The Supreme Court only ruled on one issue. Did the President of the US in (Sorry, forget the year, I can look it up) formally cancel the 1848 treaty. No. Therefore it is still valid. Like I said in a previous post, President Bush could end this with a swip of a pen. The treaty cleary states “This agreement will end at the pleasure of the President”

-J.

Well if your waiting for Bush to sign this you will be waiting for a long time.He probably doesnt even know what a walleye is and he has a stocked bass pond on his ranch in Texas.With all the things going on in the world today do you really think he is concerned about a lake being netted in northern Minnesota.I dont think so.

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I for one am not for taking away their right to fish and hunt! We ALL have that right, or privelege anyway. My point is that they should do it within limits that we are bound to.

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Exactly what I was thinking. I don’t even care if they net a few (although I don’t want them to). I just want them to have to follow a set of rules just like we do. By having limits set per person (not a huge quota) it would eliminate the commercial netting going on and who cares if 15 boats a year are out netting 4 walleyes a piece.

What we do know is that Bush is against NA’s calling themselves a Sovereign Nation. He would be the best bet to sign off on such a thing.

Castaway,
Hence the reason for our goverment being set up the way it is. Bush doesn’t have to care, All he has to do is sign it.
I think John said it,…” All it takes is a swipe of the pen”. Alright we have senators and governors who catch a bad rap. Look what PETA gets in the house. If those dipsticks can waste time with their garbage, I’m 100% sure we can get our concerns in. We just need to be as straight forward as PETA.

Yes, I know….

But the point is there are other parts of the treaty that can be challenged. Most important are the “Off Reservation” rights. The tribes either never fully had or sold the off reservation “Hunting and Gathering” rights decades ago. If the tribes want to over harvest and pillage the lakes on the reservation (Lower Red Lake comes to mind) go right ahead. But stay off Public UNITED STATES land!

Keep in mind, Mille Lacs is not the only lake being netted right now. There are over 30 lakes off reservation in Minnesota that are open to netting by the tribes.

-J.

What is the next step? I don’t have much money to contribute, but I have some time and a loud voice. I know that there are a couple probable political figures running for Mark Dayton’s seat that depend heavily on the votes of sportsman. Rod Grahams and Mark Dayton are always at sport shows trying to win votes. How about we get them involved and make them work for some votes? Somebody point me in the next direction and I am there.

ditto, and anything I can do to stop this massive destruction of fish, whether Lake of the Woods, Rainy Lake, the smaller Wisconsin Lakes which really get killed, or Mille Lacs is fine. I think we won the war in the 19th century, yet the NA’s continue to kill fish and have the most lucrative business in the Midwest; gambling.

When my son releases a legal 8 LB Walleye, because he just wanted it to live, and the NA’s keep killing and killing despite gambling rights something is horribly wrong.

The more active among you are right; if anything ever gets organized I will be there; regardless of consequences.

As so many people from different cultures add value to this country I see no reason to treat the American Indian as special; time for change.

Yes, it is public record, but I can’t give you a specific location to find it, sorry.

Basically, 50% of the alotted NA harvest belongs to the Mille Lacs band, and the other bands signed on the treaty share the other 50%. The MIlle Lacs band has never taken their full quota, but the others pretty much always do. Those other bands have been pressuring the Mille Lacs band to give them more of their share, and they have given some the last couple years. Last year the total NA harvest was a little over 72,000lbs. of an allocated 100,000lbs.

Thanks for the info

I’ve been gathering my thoughts the last few months on how to write a letter to the governor and my representatives. However, each time I sit down and start typing, I feel it comes across as a rather racial piece. I’m extremely frustrated with the adds being run on TV right now. If this stinkin’ state would wake up and see the amounts of revenues that could be gained from casinos, it would be amazing. Is gambling bad, yes, but so are a million other addictions. Let’s get our share of the pie.

I recently took a trip to Lake Erie. I left my house in the very west metro and traveled through the heart of our biggest cities. The roads here are so terrible, I was afraid my poor boat wouldn’t make it to WI. Needless to say, I only lost one dust cover on my trailer before Eua Claire. The rest of the trip, I couldn’t believe how good the roads were. What are these other states doing to afford decent roads? MN must be doing something different to be so broke we can’t afford to fix our roads. This is one example that really chaps my . I know there are many more, but this is one that burns me daily!!!

I will back anyone who is fluent enough to get our point across without making this a NA issue, they need to make this a resource issue. I feel the we have the most leverage ever to get the NA to drop the netting from their spring rituals. Let’s use it!!!

If fishermen and related business interests wanted to form a coalition to further their politcal interests, their efforts would best be directed at only one issue at a time, and in this case, it would be the netting issue.

Mixing casinos and netting arguements together at the same time would most likely lead to failure on both measures.

The casino issue is something that will effect many people outside the fishing circle, and we can always support that issue as individuals, or as members of any group we would want to support.

Its a bit ironic to be discussing this today. Just last week I had a lengthy discussion about this very idea of developing a political body for fishermen with a couple former high executives (now retired) from Cargill, as well as with Irwin Jacobs. We talked about the netting, and they were appalled to hear the numbers that come out of Mille Lacs, as well as the numbers that are coming out of LOTW because of netting. They all said the same thing, why haven’t you fishermen done something about it?

1.4 million fishing licenses sold in Minnesota last year is more than half the total number of votes cast in the last election. That does catch the interest of politicians, but maybe not as much as all the money the indians throw at their campaign funds.

I am not in favor of the spearing and netting either. However, what if the tribes decided that there would be no public fishing at all on tribal waters. After all it is their land. They use the netting and spearing as a bargaining chip and will continue to do so. Our governments state, local, and federal can not be trusted. Get real.

I took my post down that I posted yesterday because It was writen out of frustration and was not helping the debate at all. If we decide to do something consider me in. I know I can get a few others to join me also.

Hate to break the news to you Wiskerkev, but that is already the case on Lower Red. If you are not part of the tribe, you can’t fish there!

Huh???

These are PUBLIC WATERS!!!

Lower Red Lake is reservation waters and they won’t let any white man on there!

So if they could, believe me they would!

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Hate to break the news to you Wiskerkev, but that is already the case on Lower Red. If you are not part of the tribe, you can’t fish there!

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I would hope that will change soon. The state agreed to pay that tribe $40 million dollars for fishing rights. If all that buys us is the same small section of water we had before the re-stocking, I’d be willing to start some public hangings!!

Heck, we only paid the Leech Lake Tribe $10 million for fishing rights on Leech, and we can fish the whole thing!

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if people would just give them some respect instead of trying to kick them around this problem would have been solved a long time ago.

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It’s very hard to respect people that rape and pillage a national resource that you love.

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It’s very hard to respect people that rape and pillage a national resource that you love.

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Yeah, I hate coal miners, lumber jacks, etc., also…
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t feel that this is true of all Native Americans. Just as people who are willing to keep over their limits, fish or hunt out of season, or whatever are representative of all hunters/fishermen.

The point is that they do not need to take fish from the lake in the mass quantities that they do. Yet they continue to do it because they can, thus no respect from me….

I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m saying that making generalizations about a specific race based on the actions of a few is wrong.

MDP:

Generalizing this way is no different than the following:
All Germans are Nazis.
All White people owned black slaves.
All Muslims hate Christians.
All Jews hate Muslims.

As we all know, those statements are not true, just like your statement doesn’t hold any truth……..

I have a very close friend who is a Lakota Souix Native. If he called me today, said that he needed help accross the country, I would leave my desk right now. He would do the same for me. He doesn’t net fish, he doesn’t own a casino, he doesn’t “rape” the land. He is a musician that travels the country and is nationaly known for his talent in music. He has a masters degree in music and he did it all on his own, without any handouts from anyone.

So, please don’t generalize. The commercial fishing is no different than the casinos. They are operated by large corporate groups that are truely a minority of the population of Native Americans.

Regards;

Did you guys hear about Senator McCain’s proposal to further requlate the Indian gaming. If more restrictions get put on gaming I’m afraid it will only get harder to get netting and spearing laws turned around.

Yes W-Kev, the tribes do use netting and spearing as a bargaining chip. And to their credit, I say they are SMART to do so. After all it is an effective bargainging chip which is available to them.

By the same token, the state would be SMART to use casino gambling as a bargaining chip. After all it is an effective bargainging chip which is available to them .

Jack D. I agree that in theory life would be simpler if these two issues were independent and able to be treated separately. But in reality, most issues in life just aren’t that isolated and easily compartmentalized. I’m afraid these two issues are inextricably linked.

Like I said, I don’t like it either. They probably didn’t like being moved on to reservations, or in the case of the Blackhawks gunned down by gunboats in the middle of the river as old men women, and childred swam across old muddy scared for their lives.

Which statement is that????
I said I don’t respect the people that are taking way more than they need. I did not slam the NA people in general.

Gary, If a treaty is negotiated, signed, and approved that is in conflict with the law, it is the treaty which takes precedence. It’s something to keep in mind when people start talking about things like Kyoto or the WTO.

The treaty does contain the language, as Jon has pointed out, concerning how to ‘get out of it’ – it continues at the pleasure of the POTUS. I don’t look for anyone to abolish it soon; even if it weren’t for the PC foolishness, the weight of one of the most systematic attempts at genocide in modern history will keep it in place.