Wis. Natives busy netting Mille Lacs Lake

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i would be interested to see how many walleyes are taken illegally under the radar every year in mn and wi, i would bet that it would dwarf the native harvest.

let’s consitrate more on playing by the rules oursrlves,

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I don’t think you have to worry about people playing by the rules here. And to say that the walleyes taken under the radar would dwarf, doubtful. Not just on Mille Lacs alone. You are always going to have to account for stealing no matter what your talking about. The point is, this isn’t about natives rights to protect a tradition or taking something away from them. Is has to do with one thing…money. And that is what is bullshoot. If there were 10 canoes out on the lake taking their 4 fish limit with nets, big deal. The problem is these people are out for money, nothing else and that is where the problem lies.

Gemini, Get real, You honestly think were going to waste our time , money and gas ? It was freedom of silliness. I threw out some bait and I think I caught some liberals!

Funny the world is changing everyday, but we have to keep these treatys unchanged?

I and most of everyone born in this country should have the same rights as the next special group that is exsiting or brought in to our country! Is it our fault we happened to be American . Some people think so…

How are we to change things?
Ask a liberal!!!!!!!!!

1. They seem to find ways to get whats not theirs
2. Maybe more taxes will produce enough to buy them out
3. The loudest mouth get the worm ” try harder and longer”
4. Smear tactics
5. New Special rights
Agian every day is another closer to a new regulation.. Gun control , fishing controll , and new imposed ways of acceptablity for human exsistance, a new tax here a new tax there. Boy my 9 and 3 year old children have a fine mess to try to clear up when they get old enough to know the differance.

I guess they don’t count in our present time,, Just follow the rules. They should not have any rights to the fish and game because they are not native to this land!! They foreiners in their own country, well what I mean is what should be their own country. Jeff

Ya you did throw out the bait , and we must be fishin’ in the same water because I think I may have set the hook on one (or more). No I don’t actually think that causing a traffic jam in the area of the casinos is the authentic solution to the problem. We were both engaging in Hyperbole; an absurd mental image to illustrate the crux of an absurd situation.

The real crux of my arguement lays in the statement.

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The only way I see being able to put any pressure on any Minnesota Band to “come to the negotiating table” is to establish the impression that their MONOPOLY is threatened.

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(Of course this refers to their monopoly of casino business in this state)

No this won’t be accomplished by fishing rigs blocking traffic; it can only be done with political determination and the backbone to stand up to those who use the “R-word” as a weapon.

Notice I didn’t say that there even needs to be an imminent plan to build non-tribal casinos. It only has to be made beleivable to the tribes that they face the choice of renegotiate or face casino competition. (thus the carefully selected phrase “establish the impression”)

So no, we may not spend time and gas at a silly demonstration on the highways. But we need to be willing to do SOMETHING, and it may cost us a little time and/or money and/or gasoline. Be willing to put some pressure on your state representatives. Witness what the “duck habitat” supporters have done and what they will continue to do to advance their agenda.

To heck with the traffic jams. If you want to do something that would be effective, find out how many slot machines are in their casino, multiply that by 3, and then find that many volunteers for a 3 day protest. Imagine a Memorial, or Labor Day weekend. Several busses pull up to the casino at 8AM and enough people get out to sit and occupy every slot machine in the place, and NOT PLAY! Everybody has a couple quarters so that if a security officer says you have to play to sit there, you drop a coin. At noon, another group of busses pull up and a second group of volunteers arrive to take the place of the first group. The first group all go to the buffet, load their trays with food, and only take 1 bite of their food, and go back and get another tray of food. About 5 PM, another group of busses pull up, and another group of volunteers get out, and occupy the slots and not play, while the noon shift goes to the Prime Rib buffet, and does the same thing, loads their trays up with food, sit down, and take one bite, and go back for another tray. Do this for 3 days!

Imagine how much that would cost those people if there their casino games were totally quiet for 3 days, and everybody had 2 or 3 servings from the buffet, every meal!!

where do i sign up , we could make it a one week thing go from one to another , nothin better than getting em where it hurts, in the pocket , that is a great idea

Now that sounds like something I’d jump in and say. But this is one of those things you need to think about. I know you’re that saying with a grain of salt, I still find it amazing of the # of fisherpeople in this state and surrounding other states that can’t manage to pull together and fix this. Seriously,….think about how pathetic that is. Someone has the number of licensed anglers. Even people who don’t fish support our concern. This is the first I’ve ever heard of Perm. What good is a movement group that no one knows about? I think to many people have the “It’ll never happen” attitude. Well thanks alot to those people. I’m only 22 and have another 50 years of fishing left(I hope (damn cigarettes!)) 50 years! Look what happened in 50 years. No one start telling the 5 cent bottle of pop stories. Someday in my lifetime this crap will be over.
I just get so tired of hearing this. I’m on quite a few forums over the years and this issue is constantly raised.
Its bad enough to here the complaining. What really doesn’t work is the lack of given and accepted constructive criticism. Don’t forgot the majority of us are after the same goal. If someone offers a solution, listen, take it into consideration, and offer suggestions. You know what the say about to many cheifs and too few indians right?
No one ever got anywhere arguing and I don’t see this as a thread to complain anymore. I’m not the guy with the answers but I’d like to make it easier to get to them.

Matt,

Before we can move forward as a group and try to bring some positive change to what is going on , we need to unite, and that just has not ever happened in the fishing community.

Think about it! There is Walleyes Unlimited, Muskies Inc., Smallmouth Inc., B.A.S.S., Trout groups, etc, etc. but never has there been a concerted effort by ALL those groups for a common cause.

The fishing community is probably the largest “single interest” group of sportsmen in the world, but they have never organized as a group and pushed their strength in numbers as a polital force such as Ducks Unlimited, or the NRA. Until the day comes that we as a group can do this, not much will change. Face it, we are many, but we are totally fragmented and without a common cause.

Croixman,

You have some very strange ideas. There are some “liberals” on this site so please refrain from using “we”. Last time I looked the conservatives where in charge of the house, senate, executive branch, the court system and they have run up more debt than in the history of this country. I am still waiting for my tax cut.

How are we to change things?
Ask a liberal!!!!!!!!!

1. They seem to find ways to get whats not theirs
2. Maybe more taxes will produce enough to buy them out
3. The loudest mouth get the worm ” try harder and longer”
4. Smear tactics
5. New Special rights
Agian every day is another closer to a new regulation.. Gun control , fishing controll , and new imposed ways of acceptablity for human exsistance, a new tax here a new tax there. Boy my 9 and 3 year old children have a fine mess to try to clear up when they get old enough to know the differance.

i would like to know how the casino boycott or whatever was proposed has to do with spearing, are you serious????

as for the liberal comments, anyone claiming to be “conservative” should be asking what they are doing to improve your life??

can anyone name a liberal presidential candidate who they think would really take away there right to fish?? get real.

too many people do themselves a disfavor by voting conservative based on this right to hunt and fish business, let’s look at the real issues, healthcare war and education

Absolutely regarding your first comment,

hit the casino business hard by giving consideration to opening it up and I suspect the NA’s might give on the spearing end to protect the casinos. Actually, I thought Minnesota did this years ago, but am finind I was sadly mistaken. I could go on and on about the rip-offs at NA casinos, lack of disclosure, etc. versus the Nevada casino’s but I guess that is another subject.

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they have run up more debt than in the history of this country. I am still waiting for my tax cut.

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That is not true. As a percentage of GDP, the debt is not at a record level.

Every single person who earns an income got a tax cut. The Dems have said over and over they want to reverse those tax cuts. Those tax cuts should be made permenant!

-J.

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can anyone name a liberal presidential candidate who they think would really take away there right to fish?? get real.

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Most Americans do not have the “Right” to fish. In other words, there is nothing in their State Constitutions that give them a specific right to do so. There is nothing in the US Constitution that says you have the right to fish.

Therefore, for MOST Americans, it is simply a privilege that can easily be taken away.

Thankfully, the Minnesota Legislature saw this threat coming several years ago and put it on the ballot to make it a constitutional right for state residents to hunt and fish in Minnesota. That measure passed and it is now in our state constitution. PETA and other like groups will not get their way here!

Let me just say that John Kerry scared the crap out of me…..

-J.

But in just looking at the amount of debt, without any qualifiers, it is. Almost 8 trillion dollars.

Well, a new Corvette was $3,200 in 1963…… Numbers mean little unless put into the proper context.

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i would like to know how the casino boycott or whatever was proposed has to do with spearing, are you serious????

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Okay. For the slow readers, I’ll try to restate it as clearly as possible.

I see one circumstance that would convice the MN tribes to “come to the table” with the state and have ALL issues open for negotiation (including, but not limited to, spearing and netting). That one circumstance is; If the tribes seriously BELEIVED that their MONOPOLY (on Casino Gambling in this state) is threatened.

To quote Ross Perot “If there’s a better solution, I’m all ears.”

Well the Nat debt in 1963 was $309 billion. Or approximately 25 times less than todays. A new Corvette msrp is approximately 40k. Or approximately 12.5 times what it cost in 1963.
Corvette price 2005
National Debt History

In 1963 the debt, as a percentage on GDP was higher than it is today.

Ya, I know, but it’s still something that should be of concern to us. IMHO.

The overall subject here, is the general frustration that anglers have about Native Americans have the “right” to do something, because of their race.

If you want to make something happen, then protest and lobby. It was peaceful protest that made the civil rights movement happen. I recommend the same type of dialog here.

Political party bashing or complaining about taxes or national debt, here in this thread isn’t the place.

Look at the problem at hand. JLD is on the right track with bringing people together. Marches, or even every fisherman with their boat cirling Mille Lacs is a honest productive method of getting your voice heard.

The key thing is to keep is peaceful and legal.

Don’t blame the individual Native Americans for having something you don’t have. They didn’t make the law. Blame your government for creating segregation because of race.

PETA looks at you, “The Fisherman” the same way “The Fisherman” looks at the Native Americans and netting. You are against it, because you think it is wrong. PETA is against you fishing, because they think it is wrong.

So, if you want to just sit back and complain about it on this thread and not do anything else, it is like complaining about the president when you didn’t vote……..

Go do something productive about it that is peaceful and legal.

If you don’t make your voice heard, then nothing is going to happen.

I’m Glad Gary and JD are on the same wagon with me. Thats what I’m trying to put on the table here. My last post says it. Now if everyone can get themselves out of the complaining rut, we’ll need a bigger wagon and more horses to drive us to the goverment.

so whens the rally?right now when the netting is going on would be the perfect time to organize a rally..or maybe raise some money and put up a bilboard in cities?

my two cents..

I don’t even know if that would help. If you want to stop netting all together, the tribes are going to see this as you are taking something away from them. If something productive needs to be done, it needs to be done within the tribe. Netting can still be done, but it needs to be done with the same limits that everyone else is held to. 4 fish under 20″ or whatever. Like someone else said, conservation, limits. It’ll probably never happen, but can you see the tribe saying “sure take away our rights to net”.
By the way, I am totally against the netting of walleyes, I just don’t see any way the indians are going to give in.

Pighunter,

I fully understand your point.

However, during the civil rights movement in the 60s, the same thing was said. “Why bother, we will never get our way.”

Protesting or lobbying won’t do you much good. Treaties are “above the law” from a legal perspective, equivalent to constitutional mandates, IIRC.

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Matt,

Before we can move forward as a group and try to bring some positive change to what is going on , we need to unite, and that just has not ever happened in the fishing community.

Think about it! There is Walleyes Unlimited, Muskies Inc., Smallmouth Inc., B.A.S.S., Trout groups, etc, etc. but never has there been a concerted effort by ALL those groups for a common cause.

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Jack, you hit the bullseye! That is exactly what I am talking about.
Tuck

We all have been talking about the netting issue. Well how about talking about other things that our native americans can do in reguard to fishing.

One thing that many of you might not know is: that an native american can fish YEAR around with two lines. They can also keep up to 20 walleye per day while angling and they can do this with out a slot restiction? Why are they allowed to do this, well the law’s allow them this privilege…….

One other note to make to yourself while driving on the highway on a reservation. Is that our native’s are not required to caring auto insurance on the vehicle they may be driving while on the reservation. Keep this in mind the next time you visit a Minnesota casino!!!!!!!!!!

Gianni;

Can you provide some info on how treaties are above federal law?

This isn’t a state issue here. This is an issue of federally mandated segregation.

By the way, the protesting of civil rights in the 60s was a federal issue…….

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can anyone name a liberal presidential candidate who they think would really take away there right to fish?? get real.

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I for one am not for taking away their right to fish and hunt! We ALL have that right, or privelege anyway. My point is that they should do it within limits that we are bound to.

We should all have to follow the set of rules.

I like the idea of a truck/boat caravan around the lake to draw attention to this. If Channel 9 was so eager to jump on wheel houses on Mille Lacs, this really should really draw some attention! I am all for getting a hold of fishing related organizations, and attempting to setting something like this up!
Tuck