I was thinking on the weekend before opener. We can’t lose good water time, everyone should have their boats and trailers ready for travel by then. Send the word from MilleLacs through out Minnesota, Iowa, South North Dakota, Wisconsin, Mich, Illinois. We are all going to this Minnesota lake to exam, evaluate , study the affected lake and we will return our findings to the State Capital as Citizens of our NATION. 
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bobber,
let me know where you live and i will come take care of those nets. no kidding.
That does not make you any better than the people doing it. I am just as outraged as you are if not more! But if we lower ourselves to that level, what good are we as a group? Would it be OK for a shore fisherman to throw rocks at my boat because he does not have one? It is a legal operation right now. Is it ethical? No.
PERM, if you want to impress me, and get more of my money? Start airing some ads denouncing the practice on TV and radio. Educate people on the practice of gill netting! Show them where the walleye they eat at resturaunts comes from! Promote Aqua Farms and sell pond raised walleye! Destroy the market for the walleye! Air ads around election times to let congressmen and senators we will hold them accountable! That’s what I would like to see. You want my money, and tons more? Try doing some of that!
Tuck
You would think that if the courts say we have to interpret the treaty as the indians at that time would have understood it that the NA would have to use the tools of that time also.
No outboards
no million CP lights
No sinthetic fabrics
Ect.
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I really want to hear a “Netter” defend the practice! If someone tells me they do it because of what the “White Man” did to them I’ll puke!
Are you looking for someone to defend the practice, or their right to do it?
Maybe I should just stay out of this one….. (tiptoes back to Iowa forum).
I really don’t know if I should be concerned with this issue since I’ll likely never fish ‘the big pond’, but has anyone ever read these treaties and was the word ‘subsistance’ used when given the rights to harvest fish and game as they did when the treaties were signed? I’m just wondering how the word subsistence was interpreted way back when, and how it might be missinterpreted today?
It might be something that a legal complaint could be based on.
Just thinking out loud.
Tuck 
. My silence is broken. I wondered why you never here anything like that. I agree with you all the way. If I knew PERM did things like that, they would have my money and I’m sure, like you said a lot more. 
herb, i will never fish the *big pond * myself and i dont fish for eyes at all but this is wrong,very sad day for a sportsman.
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I really want to hear a “Netter” defend the practice! If someone tells me they do it because of what the “White Man” did to them I’ll puke!
Are you looking for someone to defend the practice, or their right to do it?
Maybe I should just stay out of this one….. (tiptoes back to Iowa forum).
It is not the practice persay. You and I can go out and net bait, whitefish when in season. But to net hundreds of thousands of pounds of fish per capita is outrageous! If the NA’s want to preserve their heritage, and pass this way of fishing on to their young, do it with limits like we do. How many children do you see in the netting boats? But as we all know, that is not what this is all about! It is about money!
Another thing for you all to ponder, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Do the NA’s have to abide by speed limits while on our roads or reservation roads? Yes. Were there speed limits back when the treaties were signed? Did anyone have the foresight that we would need them in the future? No.
Do the NA’s have the right to gather food from stores on or off the res. without paying for it? No.
Do the NA’s have to use our money to purchase goods and services on and off the Res.? Yes. Back in the day, they could barter and trade. Not today. WHy? Because things CHANGE!
These are all examples of things that are bound by rules and regulations that did not exist when these treaties were signed. So how is it that they can pick and choose what laws to follow, and which do not apply? The NA’s never took the volume of fish in the day of the treaties as they do now, and we arguably take much less per capita! Every other Minnesotan can take only 4 fish from a assigned slot limit from Lake Mille Lacs for instance, while a netter can take about 2000? Where is the justice?
What would happen if we all decided we were going to throw gill nets into the lake and do it ourselves? I never gave up the right to net! What do you think would happen to me? They would have to use my argument of limits against me! Against ME! Not the NA’s! So Gianni, I guess the answer to your question is that the right without proper limits is what I am concerned with.
Tuck
PERM is still paying the bill for their bunk lawyers. That’s where todays money is going. 
That is why my money stays in my pocket for now. I used to give $100 per year to them, not that the amount matters. But now the $ stays with me. Fix it and I am back.
I do not believe in any of this that they are doing. I think that EVERYONE should follow the same rules. That is WAY TO MANY FISH to be taking out of the system to claim they use to fed their family or to rot on shore. With that said, I am 1/4 Navajo. I do NOT collect any money that may be allowed to me, nor do i wish to take advantage of any programs, special rules, or schooling that may be out there for me as well. Being Navajo is just part of my ancestry and that is all. Everything I have I have worked very hard to earn on my own. My 4 year degree in Early Childhood Education I paid for my self. One thing I do disagree on thou:
“How can it be that the earliest and latest immigrants have such a hard time with conservation?”
Native americans are NOT immigrants.
I will say that it is 2005 and that with all the programs out there and the such, it’s time to stop with all the special treatment that Native Americans get. Yes, we should help out our fellow man now and then, but there comes a time when the purse strings need to be cut. Make everyone fish with the same rules.
Every time this comes up, the real issue doesn’t seem to be so much with netting, but mismanagement. The problem isn’t that the Natives have rights to walleyes on the big pond – if they had exclusive rights, they could net it into a dead lake and we’d all sit back and say, “Told ya so.”
When a resource such as the big pond is shared, however, there has to be some division in the allocation. That is where it seems that PC nonsense has allowed the tribe to run riot.
I say we get together and start are own dang group “anglers agaist netting” just a thought theres enough of us out here.
Seems to me that once the negotiations are complete, and they know which portion of the fish are ‘theirs,’ it doesn’t really matter whether they fish with bobbers, nets, spears, etc. If they could selectively poison their apportionment, what’s the difference?
The problem isn’t the means of take, it’s that ‘their’ apportionment is not managed responsibly as a renewable resource, but rather decimated yearly.
Very good point Gianni!
Once it’s decided that they are allowed two truck loads…they could take them directly to the dump…it’s thier fish…just as what you do with your one or two walleyes is your buisness…
It’s the management that is so wrong here.
how many of you guys are NRA members??
to me it is the same principal, the NRA lobbys so hard to keep handguns and assault rifles on the streets based on the slippery slope principal, i.e. what’s next, my 12 guage??
taking away certain treaty rights, or even ammending them can be seen as a slippery slope to native tribes
just something to think about
There is a HUGE difference between Treaty Rights and Constitutional Rights. One swipe of the pen and President Bush could do away with all treaties. Then we could get back to the concept of One Nation…..
Well said Jon , Aman .
jon, would it be your solution to do away with all treaties?
would that include taking away reservation land?
I think we all should try to think deeper into this issue, beyond just seeing some walleyes taking that we couldnt get
research into the self sufficiency of tribes could help eveyone understand. Does no good to blow off at the mouth when you are not fully informed
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jon, would it be your solution to do away with all treaties?
would that include taking away reservation land?
No. But bringing the land onto the tax rolls just as my property is taxed would be a move in the right direction.
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I think we all should try to think deeper into this issue, beyond just seeing some walleyes taking that we couldnt get
Such as?
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research into the self sufficiency of tribes could help eveyone understand. Does no good to blow off at the mouth when you are not fully informed
I consider myself very well informed on this topic. What am I not fully informed about?
-J.
At the time treaties were signed, did “Apportionment” even come into their thinking? Rights? Were casino rights granted to them at the time of the treaties? No. You say they are a sovreign nation, and can build what they want on it? Fine, build your casinos. Then why in the he!! are they complaining because Minnesota wants to build their own casino? They say “No, it is for NA’s only! You will ruin our monopoly with a State run casino.” There is a HUGE double standard here folks! Now that they are such a huge lobbying group with deep pockets, good luck trying to change anything!
Casino gambling, and netting and spearing go hand in hand in my ethical mind.
Run your casinos, deal with resources like we do per capita, and everyone gets along!
My $.02.
Tuck
i was not saying you were not informed jon. it appears that you do have some knowledge relative to this topic. And i am not saying that i am the gospel on this.
on the topic of thinking deeper into this, i was referring to native culture and history, too many fisherman are stereotyping native culture based on fishing and casinos. Take a look at what strides native people have made in the midst of being a minority culture. Believe me, everones taxes are less now do to these strides. No stats, but consider the amount of NA people that were receiving govt. welfare 30 years ago. Now reservations are equiped with health care systems and some even have per capita payments based on casino revenue, not all though.
I just get tired of this spearing/netting issue every year
and i believe the dead piles of fish. What tiks fisherman off is that they do it (net, spear) legally out in the open.
i would be interested to see how many walleyes are taken illegally under the radar every year in mn and wi, i would bet that it would dwarf the native harvest.
let’s consitrate more on playing by the rules oursrlves, 
You’re right, Tuck. After a bit of research, “apportionment” did not play at all – they reserved unlimited rights to hunt and fish. If they want to net every single fish in the lake, they are perfectly within their legal rights to do so.
If that was the agreement that the US entered with them, why does everyone have a problem?
As a sovereign entering into the treaty, the US could renegotiate it, or abrogate it entirely, but should be prepared for the consequences. In this case, maybe the consequences are just some torqued off natives, but in my opinion, it will boil down to an issue of moral strength. Do we, as a nation, go back on our word? What does that mean to us?
Jon, the one nation comments really don’t apply. We are not one nation with the tribes. They are recognized as an independent sovereign in the legal sense. They are essentially given full citizenship rights, though I don’t think that has to be the case. The alternative is conquest and assimilation.
Two Thoughts:
1. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I nominate Jon Jordan as the next commissioner of the MN DNR.
2. CroixMan If you want to go “cruising” with a bunch of truck-boat-and-trailer rigs, I would suggest two “loops” as the best ones to “cruise”;
cruise loop A. Hwy 169 . . . from MLB Conoco . . . to . . . ShaBoshKung Public Access.
cruise loop B. I-35 . . . from the Hwy 23 interchange . . . to . . . Sandstone.
Why does the netting have to occur in the spring when the walleyes are spawning? I understand that the fish are concentrated, but isn’t it hurting the lakes reproduction? For the guys that witness this first hand, are there ever any young kids out there learning this important part of their culture?
I have been fishing Mille Lacs for a long time and spend a lot of time up there and dont like the netting either.But IMO if you think argueing with the NA and lawsuits are going to solve anything I think you will be sadly mistaken.The only ones that have benefieted by this have been the attorneys on both sides.I would rather donate my money to solving the problem than lining an attorneys pocket.Untill people get together and start respecting each other nothing is going to change.As long as netting continues during the spawn one thing I would like to see done and I dont know if this would work or be practical is try to salvage the eggs from these fish and return them to the lake.The only other solution I see would be a buy out.Not sure about this but a few years ago I heard the Mille Lacs band was considering buying out the the other tribes as they dont seem to want them there either but not sure if there is any truth to this or not.As far as lining up trucks and trailers count me out as this will only do more harm than good.Maybe its time to start looking at putting out the fire instead of adding more wood.
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If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Well this is a system that many evidently think is broken; so does it need to be fixed?
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Maybe its time to start looking at putting out the fire instead of adding more wood.
OK, sounds like a proposal to fix what’s broken. Any suggestions on how we might consider fixing the problem?
A state buyout of the Mille Lacs Band’s quota is NOT feasible; that band already has more “diposable income” than the State of Minnesota does.
The Mille Lacs Band buying out the Wisconsin Bands might be feasible. I’d love to see it fully explored.
The only way I see being able to put any pressure on any Minnesota Band to “come to the negotiating table” is to establish the impression that their MONOPOLY is threatened.
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lining up trucks and trailers . . . will only do more harm than good.
I can appreciate your opinion. But when it comes to theory on the effectiveness of REVOLT, I’ll stick with the teachings of none other than Thomas Jefferson thank you.
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i would be interested to see how many walleyes are taken illegally under the radar every year in mn and wi, i would bet that it would dwarf the native harvest.
I agree with your comment on looking into this further. There is a ton of information at the stroke of a key on your computer. I know Jon is very “Up to date” on this issue, as are a lot of people chiming in here. But comments like above bother me! How can you say that without any kind of supporting data? Maybe you have it, and I am all wet! But seriously, regarding this issue, your statement is not valid.
This is an exposive issue, and I do not want to come off like a “Know it all”, because I am not. I have however done a ton of research into this issue. I have talked (Or tried in some cases) to our elected officials who are not interested in what YOU have to say! It is much more effective when they can be seen “Sticking up for the downtrodden”, etc. Regardless of ethics.
Actually my bottom quote {if it aint broke dont fix it}has nothing to do with my post it is on all my posts and I should have removed it from this one as it isnt what I meant.Sorry for the misunderstanding.Im not sure what is going to fix the problem but if you think lining up trucks and trailers is going to solve anything you better get used to seeing nets in the lake.
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