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I also remember a few years ago, more recent, that someone was driving around the big pond taking pot shots at the netters with a .22 rifle.
shane
They obviously need some target practice 
This country has always amazed me. We need to be one America. Not Black Americans, and Native Americans, etc.
To put things into perspective, the Native Americans take the equivalent of two full semi’s of walleye, floor to ceiling, front to back, of fish ranging between 15-20″. That is a lot of fish brother! Most of it being done of the feeder creeks and points on the east side of the lake. Remember the good old days when you could catch a fish or two on the opener over there?
I agree, EVERYONE in a state should abide by the same set of State and Federal laws….isn’t that what equal rights is???? There are no exceptions, no group gets special rules or consideration.
In the late 60’s and into the 70’s, the Federal gov. did everything they could, including passing laws to end segregation, and make us all one people, black and white. They succeeded, and now today, that same government is using different laws to CREATE segregation between Indian, and non-indian Americans, by forming 2 seperate sets of laws within the ONE nation we, as Americans, are supposed to live in! 
Class action lawsuit anyone? I feel my civil rights are being violated. I know the previous lawsuits dealt with the “Contract” or treaty. I wonder if a injunction to stop this activity could be instituted based on this claim? This is not a “I am ticked off because they can, and I can’t issue.” I don’t think ANYONE should! What I said in an earlier post holds true. The native americans, when they signed the treaty were told that they were to “Assimilate to our lifestyles, rules and regulations”. I don’t care if they want to spear or net like they did in the past. But our RULES state after you obtain 4 fish 18″ or under, only 1 being over 28″, and you are done fishing! We PAY license fees for the privelege of hunting and fishing. They don’t. Does that sound like assimilation, or following our rules? I think it is bad for all, Native Americans, black, white, yellow, purple, or pink! I get crazy every year when this subject comes up! Before anyone calls me a Native American basher, please note that I said I don’t believe ANYONE should be able to net and spear. I don’t believe a chosen few should be able to do that to a fishery. Again, look at Red Lake. I realize that went unchecked, and that Mille Lacs is hmm, hmm,”Managed”. But, as I mentioned, how has your fishing been on the east side of Mille Lacs these last few years? Years when we have all been told that there is a bumper crop of walleye in the lake? When I said there is the equivalent of two semis of fish… those are slot fish! Fish that will never be caught by 2.5 million licensed anglers in Minnesota, but taken by net by the bands roughly toalling 2300 people! A lot not even from Minnesota!
Tuck
JD, Tuck,
Thats exactly what I was trying to get across in my “casino” thread. It seems as if there is a barrier keeping Natives from becoming Americans. Why does it seem that we’re beating the dead horse here? It shouldn’t, it should seem possible for the native laws to change. I think the biggest problem is lack of publicity and lack of shown concern. I still beleive that if a group was formed and a strength in numbers alliance was formed something could happen.
The treaty of 1837 and 1854 gives the President of the United States authority to revisit and make changes. He (The Presidents over the years…) have been reluctant to do so because of liberal judges who have ruled that the Treaties must be viewed and interpreted the way the Indians of the time would have read and understood them. It also gives the Federal Government the ability to step in and address or change the practice if it causes irrepairable harm to a resource, or may cause the extinction of a species. Yes, it is “Managed” by the tribes and MNDNR. But so was Red Lake. You can argue that it is a replacable resource, but at the cost to whom? Who is buying licenses, and paying for stocking programs for lakes in the ceded territories? Yep, all of MN and WI tax payers who have little or no say in what the Natives do. Do you really believe when this treaty was written that there was the foresight that the “Indians” as they were referred to in the treaty of 1837 & ’54 would go from catching enough fish to sustain their lives, to collecting and selling thousands and thousands of pounds per person? No president has had the cahonies to stand up to the liberals and change it. Do you remember the picture in the Mille Lacs Messenger of Wellstone in the chief’s head dress? He was there to collect a check for $450k from the Mille Lacs band.
Get a hold of Senator Coleman, and ask him to open his ears and mind. I doubt you will get a reply. No one wants to play politics with this issue! The Natives, with their casinos have become a HUGE lobbying group! With lots of cash to back them! Which president wants to be known as the president that “Took rights away from Native Americans?” Not gonna happen! I think we are stuck with this mess for the duration. Don’t expect those practicing this “Tradition” to voluntarily stop doing so.
Go ahead. Support your local casino. Feel good about it. I do not like hearing the talk about plinking with 22’s, throwing firecrackers, disturbing any way what they are doing. FOr now they have the right to do so. Meanwhile we all sit here like lemmings, and complain about it without doing anything about it. Congress and the President can change this. It just is not a hot button topic. But 2.5 million fishing and hunting license holders may get their attention.
If any of you are not already a member of PERM, it’s never too late to join.
If nothing else, I encourage everyone to visit that website and spend a little time reading up on thier mission.
Change ( IF they want it ) will have to come from within the tribal councils themselves. Not a chance any politician or non Native American is gonna press the spearing/netting issue too far without fear of the race card being played = political suicide.
I have no problem with Native Americans taking fish by spear or net (within reason) and me not being able to legaly. My problem is the pilaging of the resource by taking the HUGE #s of fish they do. Unless the tribes have a change of heart re: fish limits I don’t see anything changing anytime soon. Due to thier status as Native Americans they have us over a barrel and they know it !
Jon, not bashing PERM here, but did they not recommend we not pay off the tribes to stop netting for something like $11 Mil? But decided to fight it in court? What has PERM been able to do? They have been in existence for many years now, and I see no changes, or even the hope of change. I was once a contibutor to the organization, but have chose since not ot be. I know you are still a supporter, what is it that they have done? Don’t jump me on this, I am asking because I honestly do not know.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I didn’t care for the idea at the time. Now it looks pretty good.
But consider this. We pay the tribes the 11 Million and they take it to court and win anyway! (Not everone on the tribe was for this idea.) Also, I believe the plan was to pay them off, but they would still be able to net the waters inside the reservation boundaries. (Roughly the Indian point area.) PERM went for the kill and I supported it then, I support it now.
PERM continues to lobby for the very things we age sitting here bitching about. The rights of us “White Guys” against the pillaging taking place by the tribes.
Hey, it’s a cheap date. Membership is $10 a year and they do have a lot of info to keep you informed on the issue. Especially phone numbers and e-mail addys for your State and US reps.
If there is another groups that can do a better job than PERM – I’m all ears!
-J.
Actualy EYE-GUIDE The Lac Du Flambou Indians do run thier own Hatchery and do release a lot of fry/fingerlings back into local northern WI lakes.
Other than that you pretty well hit the nail on the head as far as the political side goes. And Casinos ? They won’t get a dime from me.
Actually the tribe wanted money from the state and the state said no(it all could have been avoided), along came Lyle Berman who built the casino and the rest is history..
We also cant forget that PERM had alot of ammo heading into court. Two things that screwed them, bunk lawyers and that one liberal judge deciding vote..
True. But PERM was still a party in the lawsuit.
“PERM continues to lobby for the very things we age sitting here bitching about. The rights of us “White Guys” against the pillaging taking place by the tribes.”
I know you meant nothing by the “White Guys” term, but the fact is no one, Black, Asian, Hispanic, no one else but NA’s can do it. That is totally against what our country is about.
Let me ask you all this:
Back when these treaties were put into place, “White Anglo Saxon” people did not have limits on fish either. I’ll say “We” for arguement’s sake, we could have netted, and speared. We probably did. We never ceded those rights. But the fact of the matter is that the resource needed managing due to the fact that the population was increasing, and at some point we decided limits were in order to provide all the opportunity to enjoy the resource without depleting it large scale. So for the majority of us, roughly 2.5 million licensed anglers and hunters have limits. Limits at the time treaties were put into effect were never spoke of, never needed. But times change. What does that say about the NA way of life and way of thinking? Throughout all of their history, the premise of their being was that they are “Stewards of the land.” And, “One in spirit with the wildlife.” Does netting to the degree that they do go hand in hand with their proclamations? We have policed our own, and arguably put a lot more into the resources than they do. Even the fact that they do have a hatchery does not make it right! I still and will always believe NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT to do that to a fishery! It is just not right. I really want to hear a “Netter” defend the practice! If someone tells me they do it because of what the “White Man” did to them I’ll puke!
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If someone tells me they do it because of what the “White Man” did to them I’ll puke!
Tuck,
I completely agree. I’m getting sick and tired of hearing how the special interest group is suffering today because of something that people did back in the 17-1800’s. I’m Irish, and for a long time in this nations history, we were thought of as inferior. Should I be allowed special privleges because of this? NO! Absolutely not! I’m sick of NA crying about me stealing there land. I didn’t do it. I’m not a representative of those that did! I didn’t force anyone into slavery. I don’t claim to represent those that did. What do I have to apologize for? Nothing. I’m sorry it happened, but it didn’t happen to you personally and I didn’t do it. So quit whining. I think it’s time for a beer. 
Don’t need to read into the “White Guy” comment too deep. But the fact is PERM is made up of 99.99999% white guys! And I aint ashamed to be white!
I NEVER said or insinuated that because the NAs ran a hatchery that that meant they had free reign to take whatever they wanted fish wise. The fish #s they are taking are WAY over the top and anyone with half a clue knows that that harvest is unsustainable at present rate and can not be justified for any reason.
The times have changed for sure since the old treaties were signed and the spearing/netting tradition (or whatever you want to call it) needs to change too. Be it methods or quotas of fish taken. Does an individual realy need to spear or net thousands of pounds of fish to keep a tradition alive ? I hardly think so.
Of course to change anything this means the tribes have to agree with that. At present I highly doubt that’s the case.
I’m with you %100 on the “Whiteman owes us ” statements. In no way do I feel responsible for the sins of our fathers nor do I feel compelled to compensate anyone for them.
Not trying to start an argument. I’m not real hip on the NAs spearing/netting but the fact is it IS legal and it will be an issue for a long time to come. The best we can hope anytime soon is for a reduction in the #s of fish taken before it’s too late.
People, it was that way when I came in and it will be that way when I go out unless we of a common mind and opinion stand up and together tell the politicians that we have had enough and if they don’t abide by OUR wishes, we will throw their sorry asses out of office so quick their heads will spin. Nothing less will work. They have a sweet deal with the tribes and they don’t want anything to rock that boat.
It will take the tens of thousands of fishermen and outdoor people to collectively put a stop to this travisty. That’s just my opinion. I may be wrong.
Yes, I can’t agree more
I’ve been to the state capital with the Perm group a few years back. We met with Rod Sando Mn DRN Com. at the time. The Perm group wanted to see Gov. Carlson but he was busy so they said? Also visited the late Paul Wellstones office! We hit road blocks at all points……..I even had breakfest with Mark Dayton regarding the Mille Lacs issues…….invited him on a walleye guide trip to boot!!! Mark Dayton was running for Governer of Minnesota at the time. Well he doesn’t even know where Mille Lacs is at this time. We really thought he had some interest in the Mille Lacs Lake problems.
Mark was just looking for some votes! 
Mark was just looking for some votes!
I don’t know to many politicians that aren’t, there is such a huge gap between democrats and republicans right now there isn’t gonna be much gettin done the democrates have fallen right off the wagon.. 
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Mark was just looking for some votes!
I don’t know to many politicians that aren’t, there is such a huge gap between democrats and republicans right now there isn’t gonna be much gettin done the democrates have fallen right off the wagon..
The Dems haven’t fallen off any wagon, they are just owned and operated by those same NA’s that are gill netting the lake! There is not a one of them that is going to take a stand for a “white” mans cause against any NA’s interest!
A person harvest 20, 30, 100, 300 fish over their limit. These stories make headlines in the paper and the news. Group of people harvest two semis full of our state fish…never seen that headline in the trib or on the news. Somebody needs to stand up to them. I am a supporter of PERM and will continue to be. I want to see the Governor getting involved or maybe a Senator or two. Dang, got to go to class, more ranting later.
Hey JLDII
You are so correct in what you are saying. Our tax dollars are paying for a lot of that of what we can’t do ourselves.
Besides that they go and sell the pike for big bucks.
I had a concession stand where I went to fairs and celebrations cooking and frying fish and sea foods. I was set up one year in the cities. I had walleye that I was frying. Had them listed on the menu. The ones I bought whole sale from a supplier had to have the skins left on. One of the guys came by and wanted to know where I’d gotten my fish from. Said he could do me one better. I said well he would have to clean them, leave the hide on and I’d need a bill of sale. Told me he couldn’t do that. I said that I couldn’t buy then either. He really got quite p—y with me. But I had to keep my 
covered or pay a fine.
So they must sell these fish illegally.
This was just my experience with these guys. This was in Mn.
Thanks for wreckin’ it for my grandkids!
I agree a class action suit ! We want our money back. Let’s see 25 YEARS of paying for Licenses $1500.00 Lund $29000 boat, $10,000 Fishing gear at least. All of our Boat/trailer Registration fees , Fish house licenses, Trout stamps , “MEASURING TAPES” for us few that like to keep A walleye for a dinner or shore lunch or 2. YES I FEEL THE LAKES HAVE BEEN STRIPPED NAKED , EYE’S GOUGED OUT EVERYWHERE 
!
JLDII , Yes the WESTERN Wisconsin bands have desamated the walleye.s here to, just like Mille Lac’s.. Last summer my Brother and I went to your what should be one of the greatest walleye lakes in the state.. We fished the flats , reefs, points , weeds, 9:00 am to 4;30 pm )”0″(eye’s), 9 Smalley’s, 15 Perch. July 8th 2004 my bro’s and I’s birthday 5 hours drive round trip.. Hey well have to add that to the CLASS ACTION for “GAS and wear and tear on our towing Vehicles and boats, If the BAND can get free TAX PAYER BOATS. For the miss information on netting/spearing and extreme regulations our Government has estowed upon us, Maybe us sportsmen should get a tax brake on all of the above items and more. 
JEFF
Attached picture is from pool 4 a nice sauger that went back in the water by the man Idaer’s know as “RIVEREYES”
If we as fishing people of our Country the “United States of America” under 1 NATION gather our scalps. WE as in everyone man, woman or child. could make some progress with this. Our Courts have proven this over and over agian.. let’s see O.J. got off ,Adulterer BILL CLINTON had or-l s-x in the Whitehouse, Feeble John Kerry wrote himself in for some purple hearts for non eligable injury’s. I think we as SPORTSMEN OF OUR FISHERIES should be able to clog up every major city freeway system with our SUV/TRUCKS and boats, even just for an hour or 10. We could tell the Troopers were all going to MilleLac’s FISHING because the fishing on MILLELAC”S has never been better. Just a thought from a socialist/liberal/government…opponent
Tell us where to meet and when. 
I was hoping Minnesota would be doing a better job then us folks in Wisconsin. Your picture is not encouraging. I am glad I do not have your place on Mille Lacs — those nets would not be there, period. But, do you want to stand up for your rights or ???
bobber,
let me know where you live and i will come take care of those nets. no kidding.
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