Mechanic Question/Need Help!

I have been having some problems with my Van which is my tow vehicle and was wondering if anyone has any idea what the problem could be. Heres my story. Couple of months ago I went to start the Van, it sits most of the winter, and it ran rough after being started. It died so I started it again and was ok but the ”service engine soon” light was on. I probably put over a hundred miles on it with the service engine soon light on with no problems. Talked to a car dealer service dept. that has always given me very good service and brought it in. They didn’t have time to get to it as they thought they would but said that they would disconnect the battery cables, clean them, and then connect them back up at no charge as he thought that when it ran rough after sitting that it just sent a code saying ”misfire” and if that was the case that the service emgine soon light would be and stay off and sure enough it was off and stayed off. Couple weeks later I started the Van and it idled fine but then after i came back outside to take off I noticed that it had died and didn’t want to keep running. So I took my other vehicle and left to be on the smart side. Later A week later I started the Van and thought I would take it for a short drive not very far away and got about a block and it died. It would crank over fine but not start. I ran the battery down trying to start it to the point where it would not crank and it wouldn’t take a tow truck jump either so ended up having it towed to a dealer to get it checked out. They put it on a dianostic machine and everytrhing checked out ok except for what they thought was a frozen battery so they replaced the battery and it started right up and I drove it home and as it seemed ok. Yesterday I drove it and going down the highway all of a sudden there was a couple quick jerks/noise like maybe the vehicle shut off and restarted right away while going down the highway. Don’t know how else to explain it. I drove probably 10 miles further and it killed. After trying to start it a couple times it started. Drove less than a mile and it died again. It stared back up right away this time and then I drove it home, a good 10-12 miles ok, and parked it and took my other vehicle to where I wanted to go. Could it be like it all of a sudden its not getting gas or maybe something electrical? Could the fuel injectors be partially clogged? I am going to put a couple bottles of fuel injector cleaner in the tank and hope maybe that will help. The van is a 1997 Chevy Allwheel drive Astro van with only 76,000 miles on it. I need to get it fixed and ”know” that its fixed as its my tow vehicle and I don’t want to be stalled out on the highway with my boat behind it. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Bill

Bill,
I am no mechanic but if they did a diagnostic test on it and it was bad fuel injectors the diagnostic test should have found that. Can I ask where you took your van?

I took it to Rochester Ford as both of my daughters always had problems with the Chevy dealer here and Rochester Ford always fixed the Fords OK. The service was always great there. The test I would think would on show engine and electrical problems I’m guessing???
Thanks, Bill

Bill,
give Ken Zimmerman a call, a few years ago he told me about a very good GM Mechanic in Doge Center.

If the check engine light was on, correct scanner should have been able to read out a code. Some GM vehicles clear codes when battery is diconnected. At the same time, all computer settings reset to factory defaults. Vehicle then has to “relearn” certain things. Bring it here, and I will check it out for you. For a gut feeling, I would want to do a fuel pressure/ drop test on it. I have seen a few act like this when fuel pump is on its way out. It sounds like you are having enough problems that a proper diagnosis should be possible

Question comes to mind – has it ever just had a tune up (cap and rotor in particular – plugs commonly will last 100,000 miles but I have seen major “science experiments” inside of caps with only 50,000 miles)

No tune up recently unless the dealer I bought it from [Toms Pontiac] a year ago last Nov. did one when it had 70,000 miles on it then. Where do I bring it to? Thanks, Bill

Bill, I sent you a PM. Quite likely, with only 70,000 miles, it’s never had any tune up work done on it. Most shops wouldn’t even check the ignition parts if there were no immediate problems, particularily on your van (difficulty of access)

I have had some of the same issues with GM 4.3 Liter engines. I’m on my 2nd one which has problems occasionally also. The first and second vehicle went thru feul pumps and power steering pumps. The first one had intermitent problems that cost me alot of money. I bought a new computer a NAPA and changed it myself. (easy).

My current one is a 1993 with a new engine at 125000 miles because of a head gasket. Had the same problem with the first. I like the vehicle for towing, the first was rear wheel drive the second is all wheel.

I don’t have a solution but will watch this subject closely.

My current vehicle a couple months ago (my wife drive it) the senario is get off work drive 2 miles to the gas station shut off the engine. It takes multiple try’s to restart. Drive normally for a week or two. Same problem. We switched vehicles. I drove it 4 days. Lots of short trips no problem. Stopped for gas same problem. After many many try’s it starts. She starts driving it again a week or to later short trip to the PO won’t start. She was across the street from Miller Chev. It started she dropped it off. The only thing they did was change the distributor cap and rotor. Ran fine for a month. Problem came back. Took it to Miller Chev left it for 3 days they tried to get it to fail and it wouldnt. I’ve been driving it for several weeks with multiple stops daily and its worked fine. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Just got off the phone with Mike [bigdad] and am dropping it off tomorrow morning at his shop here in Rochester for him to look at it. I will post what he finds out after looking it over.

Thanks Mike.

Thanks, Bill

Bill,

It sounds like there might be water in the gas tank, especially since the van was sitting for quite a while without being used during cold weather. I would suspect this even more if the van had been sitting outside or in an unheated garage while it wasn’t being used (with cold to warm cycles causing condensation.)

Before you spend a lot of money on diagnostics, I’d try draining the tank or running it down to almost empty and then seeing if it runs better on a fresh tank of gas.

Good luck.

Dan

Sounds like an ignition module going out to me.
Chevy, ford, dodge all call them something different.
It’s a little electronic deal usualy inside the distributer.
They run about $50 at Napa.

Anymore, it seems like pretty much all problems manifest themselves with about the same symptoms. Will be interesting to see what Mike finds out. If you can’t get it started, or it dies and won’t restart, bang on the bottom of the gas tank a couple times with a mag lite. If the fuel pump is starting to clog or giving you problems, you can usually kick-start it a little bit with a few raps to the tank. I wouldn’t rely on it, but it might save you if you’re stuck.

hey hook,

have you looked at your fuel filter lately. if that gets plugged, it will run like crap as well, also it drops your fuel pressure. also get yourself some heat or isopropel and dump that in the fuel tank. you can also run seafoam in your gas tank and that may help clean out some junk.

shane

Quote:

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Sounds like an ignition module going out to me.
Chevy, ford, dodge all call them something different.
It’s a little electronic deal usualy inside the distributer.
They run about $50 at Napa.

---

This is what I thought about when I read the post. I have had to change it on 3 different vehicles. Everytime it took care of my problem.

When you get into weird problems like that and you’ve checked the easy stuff changing the ignition timing module will cure it the majority of the time. The fancy snap-on diagnostic code testors alot of times won’t indicate that they are bad even when they are. I’ve changed I think about 6 of them, and yes each time it cleared up all those kinds of problems.

Let us know what you find out Bill.

This problem took a bit to totally figure out. It was fun looking at replies on this post – some of you were very close with your ideas (I for one was). The problem was in the fuel pump module. It appears that problem started with a loose pin or poor connection on a pin in the plug that goes into the bottom side of the module which carries the power (and ground) to the fuel pump. If you look closely at the lower right hand connector on the attached picture of the plug, you can clearly see where the bad connection was.

Here is a picture that clearly shows what happened to the power wire that goes to the above mentioned plug

This picture is of the bottom side of the module. Although not real clear on this picture, this plug is melted around the pin that goes into previously shown plug.

You know, this is a really good idea. I think with the popularity of digital cameras, that more mechanics should take the time to visually document things like this. I for one would love to see before and after pictures of some of the things that they do to my car.

Worth noting also, Bill’s fuel filter was nearly 100% plugged. WIll pop your ears trying to blow through it. I anticipate suggestions that excess load on pump may have simply caused wire and plug to heat up. I agree that this is possible. Also worth noting, fuel pump itself checks out perfectly. Unfortunately for Bill, he got a new one anyway because it was necessary to replace the entire module which comes with new pump already installed. We also replaced cap and rotor as there was a well established “science experiment” inside cap. Spark plugs (double platinum) were pulled and checked and found to be absolutely perfect and were reinstalled. Plug wires also checked out perfect and were not replaced. Air filter was replaced because it had been incorrectly installed, badly pinched and torn. Thank you Bill for the opportunity to repair your van. (very nice one at that!) Thank you also to everyone who responded to this post – group diagnosis can be a lot of fun – every one of these type posts that I have seen here, someone comes up with a fix.

P.S. Good job Rick! Didn’t give up till we had the answers

So THAT’S what happened to the minnows I put in his gas tank! LOL!
At least she’s figured out, and back on the road again!
Whew! That was a tough one!
Tuck

Glad to here your rig is road ready again Bill! Thanks for the update Mike!

FUN, THAT WAS A VERY INTERESTING POST. VERY WELL PRESENTED WITH LOTS OF GOOD INPUT. NICE JOB.

GUNDY

As found in the case of Bill’s van.Most people do not replace or even think about replacing fuel filters on there vehicles.Most GM vans and trucks run high fuel pressure to open the poppets in the fuel injectors when commanded.50-60 psi or higher is not uncommon.Even a slightly to partailly plugged or restricted fuel filter will strain the fuel pumps and cause hard or no starting.We all need to remember that replacing a fuel filter every 30k miles at least.Cheaper to replace the filter than the pump/module asm.

Tuck, you need to [please] find a better way of cooking the fish you catch [minnow size huh?]

Mike, Thanks alot Bud for all the time you spent finding the problem. As you can see from Mikes posts that there were multiple problems such a coil that would short out off and on plus a bad distributor cap and rotor. Mike said that the fuel pump pressure on the van is suppose to be between 60-67 lbs pressure and all of the many test readings kept showing 65 lbs and stayed at that pressure all the time. But even after correcting all those problems mentioned the biggest problem still had to be found as it wasn’t like it should be. Mike was determined to find the secret problem so to speak and test started it cold and warm many times and took it for test drives hoping it would shut off on him and maybe give a code as to where the biggest problem was. Thats right, he drove it over and over again hoping to have it stall on him leaving him stranded somewhere on road hoping to get a code sent showing him what was wrong with it. He would even shut it off at times while driving it to see if it wouldn’t start and send a code. Try find a mechanic like that is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Guess what, I found that needle=Mike [bigdad on the IDA message board] who owns PPMI 507-252-8097 in Rochester, Mn. Well Mike this means you will have to put up with seeing me on the upper part of pool 4 again this year as now I can tow my boat without having to worry about having my tow vehicle and boat towed by a tow truck. Mike is the guy that you see driving his Lund Tyee trolling crankbaits on the upper part of pool 4. Thanks for being there for me [and my van] when I [we] needed you Bud. ”THANKS”
Thanks, Bill

I work at a Bumper to Bumper. In the few months i have been there I lost track of the GM fuel pumps and harness’s we have sold. The GM techs here all say it is all but mandatory to change the fuel filters every 15k miles. Less stress on the pumps if things flow right. SOunds like your fixed up and ready to tow your boat.

Glad he found the problem Bill. Theres nothing like a good mechanic to help a guy out. With the new fuel pump in the van now you’ve got another 80,000 befor it gets weak. The other stuff was just maintainence. I hope your mechanic gets all the business he can handle, Guys like him deserve it too stay in business.

Took the Van for a little ride last night and she ran great! Thanks again Mike. I ran out to pick up a mapcard as people have been talking about them and asking questions about them so thought I would check it out. I only had a few minutes last night to look at it but for only 9.99 and for what I have seen so far its a great deal. I will check it out further this week, some tonight too, and post what I find under that thread. Thanks, Bill