Searchs by conservation officers

Krisko;

I honestly do blame them for that. I know your job is dangerous, but I dissagree a CO doing pat downs, just because maybe possibly potentially you did something wrong, but I don’t know and I’m going to keep looking until I find an innocent person guilty of something that I have no clue of what.

I respect you and your job. I respect the COs too. I wouldn’t do either one of your jobs. Not because of the innocent people, but because of the bad guys.

However, I’m not giving up my rights because of the 1% out there. There are other means to the madness to get them, instead of trying to ensure everyone’s “papers are in order”.

Again, I understand the safety part of it. But without reasonable cause………It is a violation in my mind if forced. If asked, just say no!

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No one wants to take away your rights….is all y want to do is take away the danger…DO YOU BLAME THEM FOR THAT???

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Do I blame them for wanting to feel safe? No. Neither do I want MY feelings of safety taken away. That would certainly be the case if that at anytime for any, or no, reason an officer of the law could pat me down.

Gary what is being violated, and what right are you giving up??? I’m not following you here??? Maybe anoying but I’m lost?

In my mind, it’s an invasion of privacy…..

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just because maybe possibly potentially you did something wrong, but I don’t know and I’m going to keep looking until I find an innocent person guilty of something that I have no clue of what.

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I think Gary hit it on the head. If i’ve done nothing wrong, am not acting suspicious, or have not broken any law, and HANDS are in the clear, and am not posing a threat, WHY SHOULD i be patted?

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Gary what is being violated, and what right are you giving up??? I’m not following you here??? Maybe anoying but I’m lost?

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This one:
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Krisko: By all means, my intent is not to start a peeing contest. As I stated, I respect your postition all day long and give you the for doing what you do.

However, I see no need to pat down an “innocent person” on a routine check. If the person broke the law, yep, do it! But on a routine check, absolutely not. Yep, be safe out there and protect yourself against the bad guys. But protecting yourelf in my opinion doesn’t mean to pat every person down to see what they maybe, mightbe, possibly be hiding. What is next? Anal probing??? Again, not to make mockery of your job. However per item #4 below, I feel it is uncalled for.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

We can all agree that each time we have gotten checked you probally didnt get patted down, so from what I get out of this is the guy that got patted down was acting supicious. I dont think anyone is saying just walk up to people and search away. I would say officers are trained to see behavior things to make them want to search you. I am sure if you got stopped and checked you would act a hole lot differnt if you had some thing illegal to hide than if you didnt. I think that is when the seach is decided.

I don’t know any warden/officer/deputy that doesn’t ask a person first, “Do you care if I pat you down for my safety?” Most reasonable people who have nothing to hide or care about say yeah sure.

Second Slop, you may be right you are not threat at the time. While I’m trying to run your license or walk back to my truck/car you grab your knife from your pocket your a gun from inside your coat. Guess what….I could possibly be dead. We don’t search to take away rights we do it for mine and your safety.

Oh and almost forgot show me in the Constitution an amendment or bill that says you have the right to fish and hunt…..I believe it is a privilege.

I’m not trying to be a jerk, pr*ck or anything here. It just seems you are all looking at this too narrowly, almost like criminals I have here in the jail. If everyone was sane, followed laws, and the world was full of peace and love this would be bad. The sad thing this world is full of psycho’s that love to blow people up, poison you, shoot you, rob you and sexually violate you. I know there isn’t one of you that if you had a loved one that blew up in an air plane that wouldn’t have said….Why didn’t you search the passengers or luggage better…

Gary I understand your position and just want people to see why we do things the way we do….the post after yours affirms what I am saying.

Here is a link to a Wisconsin Legislature page that discusses whether to make it a right to fish. It has a list of states that have ammended their constitution to describe it as a right, or at least to protect fishing and hunting as something that will always be legal.
Right to fish and hunt
I’m not trying to say that what you do is wrong. I understand why you have to do what it is you do. I am only saying that if you see me doing nothing wrong, then why should I submit to a pat down? Chances are that I will, but why should I?

I know I’m getting off the subject here……..But maybe not.

Krisko;
What do you do or have you been exposed to anyone who is leagally “concealed and carry” that you have pulled over?

What would you do, if you asked to pat someone down and they said yes, and they were legally carry a firearm, but did not disclose prior to the pat down?

Curious about procedures, that is all.

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I don’t know any warden/officer/deputy that doesn’t ask a person first, “Do you care if I pat you down for my safety?” Most reasonable people who have nothing to hide or care about say yeah sure.

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That’s one thing that is wrong with people today……

-J.

I would think that anyone that has a conceal and carry permit would disclose that to an officer before a pat down…it’s the ones that don’t have a permit that I would worry about…
Meth labs? If was heading out to the lake and smelled cat urine…that would be enough for me to make a phone call, and I would bet a judge would be issuing a warrent before an office could make it out to the ice.

Being ASKED for a pat down or an office telling you to “spread’em” is very much two differant things.

It is sad to say that when I’m approached by an officer I watch my hands very closely..and keep them in view…if not on the steering wheel…because I don’t want the officer to be nervous…and you are so right Krisko…with all the wackos out there, it’s hard not to be a little jumpy!

As for entering without waiting for permission…well I would hate to be the CO that does that to me! Generally I fill up with beans the night before or while I’m on the ice…..

I think I understand what you wrote…help me out if I’m wrong and go way off what you want.

In Wisconsin, the only ones allowed to carry a concelled weapons is law enforcement and other select individuals. I have come across a couple of individuals with weapons like pistols and knifes between the seats. I don’t care if they say they are law enforcement or not. I order them out of the vehicle and place them in had cuffs and search them. Then I ask questions and confirm what they are saying. If they have the weapon on them I order them to put their hands on their head, handcuff and remove weapon(s). If they are law enforcement or the select individuals they understand and are legally carrying they don’t need to worry much. I had this happen to me several months ago. So I understand and do as I’m told.

I’ve had several people that were carrying illegal and I asked if I could search them and they say yes, but I have a .25 in my pocket or I have a knife in my pocket. I’ve also gotten consent patted them down and missed things that when I got to the jail and they did a better search or admitted to having somthing.

I had a guy who was dressed nice, drove a nice vehicle, and was very friendly, oh and was a local general contractor. I had stopped him for drunk driving. Searched him and everything. I found out at the jail he had a warrant in another state from years ago for 1st degree assault and attempted homicide. He said it was a long time ago when he was a kid. He had a bad past and had stabbed a guy. He told the jailer that when he was drunk is all he could think of was getting my gun and trying to get away. The jailers also found a knife that clipped onto his boot. I missed it. I could have been dead. This is why I’m a firm beliver in the simple pat down. I have many more experiences and reasons for everything I wrote in the other posts. That is why we all have opinions……as far at the one post in Minnesota it isn’t a right to fish or hunt….It is “hunting and fishing is preserved for the people” They took out the word “rights” Wisconsin has similar wording to be introduced they hae no real article in their Constitution. That’s only if we want to get technical

So Krisko,

Let me get this straight….. I’m suppose to be OK with your search to make you feel better?

No Way!

People, learn your rights and exercise them before they are taken away!

-J.

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So Krisko,

Let me get this straight….. I’m suppose to be OK with your search to make you feel better?

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Not only to make him feel better, but to make you feel better. I don’t want a .45 hole punched in me from an itchy trigger-fingered officer.

I’m not saying it’s fair for an officer to pat down everyone he comes across, but there has to be some “cause.” These officers have families like the rest of us. Safety for them & us is their primary concern just like getting home to their families. If it’s going to make the officer feel safer by doing a search, then so be it.

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I don’t want a .45 hole punched in me from an itchy trigger-fingered officer.

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Then the ichy trigger fingered officer should not be armed!

-J.

That’s why Andy only let Barney carry one bullet, and made him keep it in his shirt pocket!

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Then the ichy trigger fingered officer should not be armed!

-J.

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According to you though everyone no matter who he is can have a gun!!!

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Then the ichy trigger fingered officer should not be armed!

-J.

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According to you though everyone no matter who he is can have a gun!!!

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Nope. What I’m saying is if a cop can’t do his job without breaking the law, get another job!

I’m typing this as a joke to lighten things up….so laugh!!

“we’re presumed guilty until patted innocent, the presumed innoncent until proven guilty”

LOL..i thought it was funny

Seems we are getting all worked up about nothing here. An officer wants to pat you down so what.If you haven’t done anything wrong or have nothing illegal on you thenyou have no worries and after the quick harmless pat down neither does the CO. Its his saftey he should be concerned about not someone getting offended or pissed off by a simple pat search.As far as going into shacks I go with the belief that a Co wouldnt just barge in unless he/she suspected something illegal was taking place.I would have to think they would offer a courtesy knock if they were just out checking licenses.But thats a whole different subject.Bottom line be a law abiding person and you have nothing to worry about.

If an Cop or a CO wants to pat me down, he better have probable cause that I have broken the law…. And he better be right!

You have never fished Mille Lacs in a permanent shack. The CO’s used come busting in at any hour of the day or night un announced. Thank god the courts put an end to that!

-J.

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Bottom line be a law abiding person and you have nothing to worry about.

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Buy why as a law abiding citizen, should I have to subject myself to a pat down? I’m a law abiding citizen because I don’t want to have to be subject to the, for lack of a better term, whims of a law enforcement officer!
Almost seems like a debate for a campfire!

Todd you are right, some people are getting way out on the right wing here A pat down I don’t see the big deal either…especially for safety reasons….most of us agree. I don’t agree on the going into ice shacks, especailly like the ones on the big pond. I know some of them are better than my house. I personally don’t have nothing to hide and would not care and invite them in. It is your right however to no let them in. It is a dwelling you are in. Same goes with a tent if you are living in that. Case law is more grey on that….I know in some states a homeless mans box is the same as a million dollar home. So that would concern me though if they are just busting in. I’ve always heard of this but never witnessed it or had it done to me. I never believe everything I hear second hand especially if it is “well so and so had this happen to them. The Cops/Wardens were pricks.” More than likely they had it comming.

Back to the itchy trigger….according to the Bill of Rights Jon “ANYONE” has the right to bear arms. It doens’t say that if you are sane, or have an itchy trigger finger you can’t………

I think you are refering to the Second Ammendment to the US Constitution….

“Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. “

And for the record, yes I agree with that amendment.

-J.

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I think you are refering to the Second Ammendment to the US Constitution….

“Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. “

And for the record, yes I agree with that amendment.

-J.

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Yes Jon the 2nd Ammendment(Part of the BILL OF RIGHTS, 1st 10 ammendments to the Constitution.)

In the other post you said the “itchy fingered cop shouldn’t have a gun” according to this now you say he can. So which is it??? The courtroom needs to know. You know I’m just having a good time debating this right Jon.

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I was talking to a guy at work that said that the CO in this area, actually pats down people on ruitine checks.

Has anyone else had an experience like that?

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Back to the original question. “Has anyone else had an experience like that?”

No I have not, do I think that a CO or any Officer should have the right to pat me down on a routine check? If I give him no reason to suspect me of having a weapon on me or being a threat to him than no he should not be able to pat everyone down as part of his routine. With that being said I have great respect for all law enforcement officers they have a tuff job that I would not want to do. Put yourself in the shoes of a law enforcement officer pulling someone over on a routine traffic stop, how do you know if the guy you are pulling over is a threat to you or not as you are approaching the car, you don’t. Like Brian mentioned in an earlier post whenever I have been pulled over I make darn sure that my hands are where they can be seen, on top of the steering wheel. If you were the officer in this situation and could not see the hands of the person you had just pulled over what would you be thinking and how would you handle the situation?

Back in 1977 there was an Olmsted County Deputy Sheriff by the name of Jack Werner, I do not remember all of the details but he had pulled a guy over for speeding one night in the parking lot of the Rochester Apache Mall, as Jack approached the car door the guy pulled out a shot gun and blew him away leaving him for dead in the parking lot. I was not able to find any articles in the archives of the Rochester PB on this story so I sent an e-mail to John Weiss of the Rochester PB to see if he could help me out with this, if he finds anything I will post the story here. I was a young man of 19 when Jack was gunned down in cold blood by that coward that left him in the parking lot to die. That tragedy left a big impression on me one that I will never forget, I thank God that there are men and women out there who are willing to put there life’s on the line for us and protect us from people like that. I have a few friends who are in law enforcement and I always think about them when ever I see someone pulled over and say a little prayer that God will keep them safe when ever they are in a dangerous situation.

Rochester Police Honor Guard

I haven’t been gone that long! How the heck did we get so far off the subject of pat downs by game wardens?

Ive had a warden invade my fish house on Mille Lacs… but that was the LAW then.. it was written specifically that the entry should be unimpeded… to bad my forhead was in the way of the swinging door at the time! lol.. oh well.. didnt hurt (much)….. (silly me, I heard footsteps and was moving to the door to let them in!) and yeah… I thought it was a bit much.. but they were trying to catch poachers by suprise and most people supported that idea…. when you fished on that lake you knew it was a possibility….
anyway.. this thread seems to be hypothetical more than anything… I would not be in favor of pat downs everytime I encountered a warden… Ive worked with wardens and rangers before and have never seen anyone patted down…. though to be sure I always dealt with people in boats and parks at the time.. and in those days anyway it was pretty unlikely you would find someone armed while fishing….

Someone above mentioned dont believe everything you hear… Id have a hard time imagining that a warden really WAS pattind down EVERYONE… (but whos knows, its possible I spose!)
Im pretty sure that even his own peers would not condone that…. they are trained (I hope!) to recognize circumstances where its necessary…. and warranted….
I thinking moving in the direction of a police state is a very poor idea… and being too willing to give up your constitutional rights is not a good thing….. just because they are not being abused now, dont mean that they never will be…. as mentioned above Hitler believed very strongly in law enforcment…. so did Sadam Hussein no doubt… every tyrant does….. it would be wonderful if we lived in a perfect world where we dont need any law enforcement… that will never happen… we need the best balance we can get… and it seems in the US we are lucky to have such a circumstance… well lucky is maybe not the right term… we have fought for this and built it…. and hopefully we will never surrrender what we have… we need the balance.. as also mentioned above, both law enforcement and us fear for our lives in armed confrontations, neither of us want to be killed!.. we need to understand how each other feels and as long as we treat each other with respect then I cant see why we should have any problems… the bad “guys” can be caught.. and the good guys dont have to suffer …. not as simply done as said…. but it still has to be and can be done….

ok, after reading everyones post, I am going to add my .02 and hopefully not anger anyone in the process.

I think that alot of CO’s are just playing it safe after the incident in WI. If I were a CO, that would weigh in the back of my mind. I am a law abiding citizen and have no problem getting patted down by a CO if that would put him at ease and make him easier to talk to. when we become defensive of all of our rights and try to stick them in his face, he will become a dick in return. if he says I did something that I know for sure that i didn’t do, I will go to court over the incident to right the wrong. I also do the same for cops, I do let them know when I get pulled over that i have a shotgun or handgun in the truck and have no problems letting them locate the gun and check it for thier safty. I have had cops pull guns on me and it scared the crap out of me, but they are thinking of thier lives and taking steps to protect it.

just my opinion.

thanks

shane