Disgruntled Hunter or just plain simply insane???

Have we heard anything other than the fact that this man’s heritage is that of Hmong? Is he a citizen of the US? If he is, then he’s already in the hands of his own government. Please, let’s quit blaming an entire culture for the actions of an individual. I’m not trying to protect this individual. I think if he did it, he should be punished severely. I just don’t think you should say he did it because he’s Hmong. I don’t drink beer because I’m Irish, I do it because I do. It wasn’t his heritage that killed those unfortunate souls, who we should remember in our prayers. I know I will, and also say one for the families that have to live with this senseless tragedy.

Well said Steve, thank you.

This is the third incident this year where a Hmong has shot another person. Most hunter related shootings are accidents. These folks that can’t read or understand english need some sort of hunter training before being released into the woods with high powered guns.. Just plain B.S IMO

I understand all the arguments here, but i guess for those of use who see hmongs year round breaking hunting/fishing regulations, it’s a tougher pill for us to swallow.

Topics like this have come up before on posts about poachers etc…and I, like many others, can name dozens of times we’ve seen laws broken by hmongs. Like i’ve said b4, go to the Onalaska spillway and look for yourself…

For those of you who want to over look race/culture, i’m sorry, it can’t be done..I don’t see germans, italians (I am italian), jews, whatever doing this day in and day out…I see hmongs doing it. So yes i’m going to get a little more upset when i see another hmong show the same disrespect for america and it’s laws.

Another aspect that puts a sour taste, here in LAX, as many other cities, we have hmong gangs that think they’re bad and cause problems in the town. I don’t see any german gangs, or jew gangs, or irish gangs….Once again, another thing to single out the hmong community…..

Once again, I understand the points people are trying to make, i’m just trying to explain things from other’s points of views…and why it’s hard to leave the “hmong” part of this out….

Call me what you want, but my opinions, facts, prejudices, are based on what i’ve lived and known, and i don’t dislike anyone here for what they say or believe in…

it will also be good to hear ALL the facts as to what this guy was doing there in the first place

Five people, mostly older like me, killed while deer huntng on their own land and another 3 shot. Like someone earlier said, in my fifty years of hunting I have never seen anything like this. Cultures are different, and this is one that I have no respect for. I could go on about the roblem with the Hmong at the Whitman Dam, but perhaps the best thing I can say is it is time you grew up and recognized reality.

Wake up; it could not have been a white male. White males have been deer hunting for 100 years or more and none of us have decided to kill five people because of a deer stand.

Get real, folks.

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Wake up; it could not have been a white male. White males have been deer hunting for 100 years or more and none of us have decided to kill five people because of a deer stand.

Get real, folks.

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Yep, get real. White men don’t kill people over deer stands. But they have killed for literally thousands of other reasons. Yep your right.
Get real.

Your family, folks and friends that immigrated to the US did not kill five people in cold blood. There is a differance.

I agree with you Derek, there needs to be some sort of training or classes that people need to pass in order to hunt and fish. If there is a language issue then I am sorry but you will not pass PERIOD!!! If you come to America and expect not to learn english then don’t expect to have things handed to you. The excuse of not understanding english is a joke. If I went to France to hunt and shot someone or something that was protected by law and said ” Well I don’t speek French or understand your laws” what do you think is going to happen??? Jail, Death, who knows but this is not something that should be tolorated here, I don’t care what color,race, or gender you are. We need to become more strict with our laws and punishments for over limits of fish, protected animals that get killed, and any other type of unsportsman like crap that goes on. I have seen on a number of outings Swans being shot at and killed, I will not confront these people, but when there are caught for being ignorant, what happens??? Restiution?? How about some real punishment for a change!! If Hmongs are going to enjoy our outdoors, then they better know what they are doing, and respect the laws and more importantly the other hunters lives. I hope this man gets what he diserves, and that my friends is DEATH. This may sound a little drastic, but it’s time that someone puts an end to all of this. If the punishment is strong enough, I think people may think twice befor pulling this kind of crap. I can only hope and pray for the family’s that lost their loved ones in this, Happy Turkey Day!! It’s time to stop all of this BS….

Slop Bass,
I hear ya. Like you said…it’s what you personally see up there. I guess I’m out of the loop on this one. All I know is I wont be taking my wife north of Madison for a while.
We have white gangs. Irish gangs. Jewish gangs. Italian gangs. And lots of white poachers. So I see where you’re coming from. You get angry about what you see the Hmong people doing. I get angry about what I see my white people doing. Your Hmong guy just killed 5 people in a senseless act of violence. Our white Gacy buried 29 in his basement and dumped 4 more in our neighborhoods.
So I guess it’s all what you’re used to.

But I’m thinking that if education was attempted, maybe the Hmong people would be grateful. I mean, I’m sure they don’t enjoy getting busted for poaching because the written language is difficult.
I don’t know…maybe it’s just THAT different where I’m at.

Tell ya what…I’d hate to be an ethnic minority up there in the near future, it sounds like.
Either way you slice it though. He had a license. That means he was an American. Just like you and me. Just another American who went nuts. Happens every day…sad to say.
Our courts will do right.
Jamie

Slop I agree with most of what you said except the part about not having Irish, German gangs……um I’ll just say “The Mob”. It is frustrating as an outdoorsman to see this over and over again. It doesn’t just come out of the blue without some first hand experiences for most of us. I am the least prejudice person, and believe me when I say that. Alot of the annamosity towards the Hmongs is the disrespect towards our culture. How many of the older Hmong can actually speak english? All other cultures that have come to this culture have learned our language. In Minnesota how many Norweigan translations do you see. Alot of the americans see what our goverment does for the Hmongs and what they do for our Vietnam Vetsand it fuels the fire towards them. And it isn’t all of the Hmong community. Like someone stated earlier it’s their attitude for the lack of respect towards our culture and natural resources. Granted “we” break the laws just like they do but take the population versus violation in each and that’s what makes the Hmong community stand out, it’s not being racist. Thought and prayers go out to all of the victims families, reguardless if they were Polish, Norweigan, Scottish, German…..

this is the 9-11 of hunting all across America.

rough comparison, but fitting in my mind.

I’m italian…i know all about the mob I agree with what you say as well

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getting busted for poaching because the written language is difficult.

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The written language has nothing to do with it, like posted above, it’s complete disrespect for America, Americans, it’s laws.

You’re right, and more than likely, neither did his. It’s an individual, not a culture or a race that did this. By your post, I would have to believe that no white male has ever killed in cold blood. Check out the FBI profile of serial killers. WHITE MALES are the first thing they look for! Are all Hmong murderers? I don’t think you can make that arguement logically. This particular Hmong male may in fact be a murderer, and if he is then we can judge HIM. Not all Hmong. Let’s not be so short sighted. This is not about race.
Maybe more Hmong poach fish, deer, or other natural resources. This does not make them more prone to murdering 5 and wounding 3.

I am sick in my soul about this. Ejected a trespasser last year and will do so in the future like a felony stop. This guy is just plain crazy. I would guess anger management issues and then a willful attempt to get rid of witnesses. Happens all the time in the USA. The Hmong people took the word of our government during vietnam and were nearly exterminated because of our politicians. Most fought bravely and many died protecting democracy and then they were abandoned by our side and left to be persecuted. The victor writes the history. You certainly can not stereotype all people of a race. The Europeans that came here often had gangs to help protect themselves. The melting pot sometimes needs a few generations to work. Throw this guy in the can and keep working with people who have fought for us to assimilate into this country.

I know this from living for two years in college with Hmong as neighbors, Hmong kids (the ones by us were between probably 2 and 6 years old), are just as sweet, innocent, happy, and willing to learn as any kids of any other race. As with most people, few are inherently “evil”. Most is learned/taught behavior, when problems arise.

The problem I think we are running into (not necessarily in this case, but maybe, though moreso with other natural resources issues) I think is more of a cultural issue than a racial one. Now, I’m no expert on Laos and Hmong culture, but it seems to me they have less of a conservation ethic and a private property respect than those raised in the US culture. Perhaps that is where we should target our education efforts. And do it at an early age.

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this is the 9-11 of hunting all across America.
rough comparison, but fitting in my mind.

I’m italian…i know all about the mob I agree with what you say as well

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getting busted for poaching because the written language is difficult.

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The written language has nothing to do with it, like posted above, it’s complete disrespect for America, Americans, it’s laws.

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Oh…Do you mean kinda like the disrepect that the mob has for the America, Americans and it’s laws?????? Do you mean all the senseless murders that our Italian ancestors commited for cash? Or do you mean the thriving drug trade that is also backed by the ITALIAN mafia which operates in MY city? Or perhaps it’s the loan shark trade that we run so well? You know…the one that robs people of their homes and their livelihood??
See where I’m going with this?
Being an Italian in Chicago (which is kinda different than being on from LAX…we actually DO have a mob here) I got to hear all kinds of stupid idiotic Al Capone mob B.S. jokes and racial slurs growing up.
There is NO difference between THAT and what you are presently saying about the Hmong people.
Trust me, my Italian brother…there’s alot of people out there who think you and I are a couple of scumbags just because we’re Italian. trust me on that one. You’re no better in their eyes than the Hmong people are in your eyes.
Kinda sucks when you think about it like that, doesn’t it?
We could go back and forth on this stupid issue of the guy being Hmong.
Tell you what..let’s change the subject. There’s 3 brothers that live in Tomahawk,WI that are absolutely infamous for poaching. The DNR wont even #%$& with them. Not even when they use neck-down fish traps in the river and shoot bear and deer at will no matter what the season. I’m talking dudes that are 10 times worse than any Hmong deviant. Why don’t we get them. I believe their last name is Shultz.
Like I said..I guess the 300 mile divide between us makes it as far as Mississippi is from Manhattan.

I hate to say it but fuel for the anti gunners will probably top the list.They are going to call it a assult gun with a ten round clip what a horrible thing.Lets hang his gun not him.

It sure does, because if you can name even one incident in the past fifty years in which five people were killed deer hunting by an individual over a deer stand I would quickly change my opinion. And don’t forget, four were unarmed and shot in the back. Like I said to a previuous post, get real.

Good point.
I personally don’t hunt but I do advocate it and I work with hunter’s groups. I can see a ban on “assault” weapons passing again REAL quick once the media gets done with this one.
That sucks. One bad apple seems to be giving Hmong people, assault weapon owners and hunters a bad name all in one day.

MossBoss, I think you nailed it as far as the racial side of the equation. These are problems magnified by “First Generation Immigrants”. Not unlike the problems of First generation Germans, French, Italians. We have 75,000 Hmong here in St Paul, most not born here. Another 5,000 due here before year end. I’m in agreement with Jack too. Why do we need to absorb such a high percentage of this wave of immigration. And what does the Federal Government plan to do to manage this problem. I’m not a racist. But to sit back and say there is not a problem is foolish.

I am in total agreement with the death penalty in murders such as this one appears to be. I don’t really care about studies that imply the death penalty does nothing to deter crime. To me it’s about punishment only.

As long as we are talking about training and laws. I find it almost humorous that just because it’s hunting season virtually anyone can grab a gun and head out armed in the woods. While I need to complete a course on various aspects of gun use and safety. Prove I can hit what I aim at by passing a shooting course at the gun range. Then pay $100 for a license that allows me to be armed outside of the hunting season!

One more thing. This weapon he used was not banned by the “Assault weapons Ban”. It was likely legally purchased before the ban expired.

IS HE A CITIZEN? IF HE IS HIS GOVERNMENT WILL TAKE CARE OF IT ?? THIS IS WHAT I MEAN I DON’T CARE IF HE IS PURPLE YOU HAVE TO PLAY BY THIS COUNTRYS RULES AND BE FAIR TO WHO EVER DID THIS. WE HAD A TRAGEDY ON FRENCH ISLAND BECAUSE HMONG GRANDMOTHER LEFT TWO SMALL CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE ALONE WHILE SHE LEFT THE HOUSE BURN’T DOWN KILLING THE CHILDREN, THE RUBBLE WAS THERE FOR THREE MONTHS AND I HAD TO DRIVE BY IT EVERYDAY 1) DO YOU BELIVE IF THIS HAPPENED TO MY FAMILY I COULD HAVE LEFT THE RUBBLE LIKE THAT FOR THREE MONTHS ALSO TWO DAYS IN THE NEWS AND NOTHING SINCE DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN TO MY FAMILY NO!! I AM NOT A RACIAL PERSON BUT FAIR IS FAIR. I HAVE TO PLAY BY THE RULES AND EVERYONE (ALL RACES) SHOULD PLAY BY THE RULES OR BE CONVICTED NOT I’M SORRY THEY COME FROM A DIFFERENT CULTURE .

THANKS FOR LETTING ME SAY MY PEACE THE TOWN OF LACROSSE IS GETIING SCAREY CHI WAS ALWAYS SCARY THATS WHY WE LIVE HERE BUT THE DOORS ARE OPENED HERE BY OUR GOVERNMENT AND GIVING THEM A SILVER SPOON WHILE THE US VEITNAM VETS GET NOTHING BUT SPIT ON. WHO FEELS SORRY FOR THEM OUR GOVERNMENT YA RIGHT!!!

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The excuse of not understanding english is a joke. If I went to France to hunt and shot someone or something that was protected by law and said ” Well I don’t speek French or understand your laws” what do you think is going to happen??? Jail, Death, who knows but this is not something that should be tolorated here, I don’t care what color,race, or gender you are. We need to become more strict with our laws and punishments for over limits of fish, protected animals that get killed, and any other type of unsportsman like crap that goes on.

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Where was it said that this guy does not understand the English language, we do not know that for sure, lets not speculate until all the facts are in. This is not about laws and punishments for over limits of fish, game, or protected animals that get killed, its about 5 guys who were murdered and three others who were injured. Out of respect for them and there families lets not turn this into an ugly prejudice against the Hmong. Don’t get me wrong I am just as outraged about this as everyone else and I would like to see him get the death penalty also, an eye for an eye, unfortunately I know that will not happen, but it has nothing to do with him being Hmong.

2Fishy4U we all have our opinions and the great thing about this site is that we can express them here without being criticized. Even though I do not agree with your opinions on this subject I do respect your opinion. Telling someone to get real is not respecting there opinion.

I dunno. I don’t think Chicago is scary. A place where you get lumped into an negative stereotype just for being of a particular Asian ancestry seems scary to me. But that’s just me.I’m just an F.I.B anyway.
Just curious…is an F.I.B worse than a Hmong? I just want to know where I stand when I’m up there.
Don’t you have to be a US citizen to get a hunting license?
Man..this has got to be the most senseless conversation I’ve ever been involved in on a fishing board.
Let’s just say a prayer for the families and let the legal system deal with this ONE PARTICULAR Hmong person.
Thanks.
Have a good day.
Jamie

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It sure does, because if you can name even one incident in the past fifty years in which five people were killed deer hunting by an individual over a deer stand I would quickly change my opinion. And don’t forget, four were unarmed and shot in the back. Like I said to a previuous post, get real.

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You seem to think that I’m defending this guys right to kill people because he’s Hmong. To say that is completely false. I am saying that he did this because of the kind of person he is. Not what nationality he is. A Hmong person is no more predisposed to murder than a white male of any nationality is.
You’re right. I can’t think of one situation that I’m aware of where someone was killed over a deer stand. That doesn’t mean it never happened, nor does it mean that it happens in the Hmong population all the time.
I just don’t see that this is about race. I think it’s about one individual who snapped, or something, and killed a lot of people in a senseless act of violence.
Please, let’s not convict a race of people because of the actions of one member.

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Don’t you have to be a US citizen to get a hunting license?

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No.

Just like you don’t need to be a citizen have a drivers license, own land, pay taxes and so on.

-J.

Please define……..F.I.B.???

I can’t get it to click in my head right now.

I could not agree more, THANK YOU!

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Let’s just say a prayer for the families and let the legal system deal with this ONE PARTICULAR Hmong person.
Thanks.
Have a good day.
Jamie

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Please, let’s not convict a race of people because of the actions of one member.

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skhartke your right this is not a racial issue!! Yes it was “1 GUY” who did this hanious act! The point that I and others on the forum were pointing out was, the disrespect for our laws and culture and this “1 GUY” has just taken that disrespect to the NEXT LEVEL!!

I hear what you’re saying, but I really don’t think this is the next level. I was a Criminology major in college, and this guys crimes are indeed heinous, but they are not to the next level. I remember someone saying something about John Wayne Gacy earlier. Now that is the next level. Read the story of Herman Webster Mudgett, AKA Henry H. Holmes who is widely accepted as the USA’s first serial killer. He was at the next level. I feel that this is just a case of someone committing a very violent horrible crime.
I think that any crime is a disrespect of our laws and also sometimes our culture.

Hers a question to any of you that have resently completed hunter saftey classes. Do they teach you a reasonable way to confront someone in the woods that is armed? I dont remember this being mentioned in my class way back when. There sure is anough talk about your rights in the woods. And Im sure we all get a little worked up when we think someone is stepping on our rights. Where is the talk about how to deal with this. Maybe be there should be some written ettiquete as how to address anouther hunter.

What this is getting at is that in the back of my mind Im still wondering how the confrontation went down. Dont get me wrong. How ever it got started the out come was the worst it could be. Hopefully this will be talked about in training classes for years to come and it will prevent it from happening again.