VOTE SMART!!!!

  • JohnEngler
    Posts: 53
    #1245013

    I am an avid sportsman and a concerned parent. I have listened to both side of the presidential race. In my mind, and hopefully the majority of America’s, the decision is easy. George W Bush!!! He has an agenda that will keep America safe, protect the future, and protect the sportsman! By all means, I do not agree 100% with everything that he says or has done, but he is hands down the better choice.

    His opponant has been trying to become popular by saying whatever it takes to make Americans happy. He wants everyone to like him and America. Sometimes that’s not the best. He has turned against the United States with Vietnam, voted to raise taxes, voted against our troops (God bless them), and “Flip Flopped” on every issue.

    The only thing that I can see if Kerry is elected is utter chaos in the U.S. It’s pretty bad when Iraq and Bin Ladin want Kerry in the White House.

    Please vote smart and protect our country and our favorite pass-time!

    sgt._rock
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2517
    #325589

    Well here is another look at things. The New Yorker magazine has never endorsed a presidential candidate until now. A long story to read but enlightening.
    New Yorker article

    big dad
    Rochester, Minnesota
    Posts: 238
    #325592

    I don’t even need to look much at other reasons. I did my time during Vietnam and kept my mouth shut – didn’t then nor do I now have any time AT ALL for people like Kerry
    I’m a vet and PROUD OF IT!

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325596

    As sportsmen/women, we really don’t have any other choice.

    I do wish that we had a 3rd, or even a 4th major party to choose from though. It seems that as time goes, one party continues to move further and further to the left, and the other further to the right. It seems more and more people would prefer to be governed from a more “Centralist” position. One that represents the common man more than the special interest groups who’s lobbists carry the bribe money to Washington every time an important vote comes along.

    Yes, I’m voting for George W. Bush, but not because I’m sold on him, just because I don’t have a better choice. The lesser of to evils shall we say.

    Gianni
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts: 2063
    #325616

    A third or fourth major party would nullify the popular vote altogether.

    Know the rules, play the game, hope for the best.

    DeeZee
    Champlin, Mn
    Posts: 2128
    #325635

    Bush has my vote without a doubt!
    Look what W had walked into at the begginning of his term?
    I was proud to be an American when he stepped up to the plate and went into action after 9/11.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325640

    Remember Al Gore? He won the popular vote, but Bush won the elctorial vote, and is President.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325641

    Steve, I agree with you. Bush stepped right up after 9/11, I couldn’t ask more of any President under those conditions.

    My biggest concerns with G.W.B. this time around is what he is/has done with enviromental protection laws, our economy, and the outsourcing of U.S. jobs overseas.

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #325643

    Watched an interesting documentary last night on PBS dealing with mostly Rumsfeld but actually covering almost all of Bush’s cabinet and military decision’s during his presidency. IMO, once again IMO, Bush did a very very nice job after 911, keeping the country together, helping it heal, and developing a strategy for Afganistan and going after terrorists. Was it totally successful? No, but we did get alot of the terrorists, and put a decent dent in their operation.

    Where he put his foot in the pile, IMO, was when he hooked his wagon with Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and attacked IRAQ without a clear idea of an exit plan, and against the wishes of most of the Country’s military advisors with regards to the number of troops needed. They so underestimated the amount of troops needed to secure the country after defeating the Iraqui military. What was also interesting is how some members of the cabinet, particuraly Wolfowitz, wanted to go after Iraq directly after 911, even if Al Quieda wasn’t there, just to “make a statement”.

    To me, being the commander in chief of the military, naming a cabinet to help in this function, and making military decisions, is the single biggest responsibilty of the President. He has some influence over the other issues brought up, but to me this is job one. Would Kerry have done any better, worse, or will he do any better if elected? Who knows, alot will depend on the type of people he surrounds himself with. I think Bush made a good choice on Powell, and a very scary choice with the trio of Chaney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz.

    Jeremiah Shaver
    La Crosse, WI
    Posts: 4941
    #325644

    Incentives for Corporations to send jobs overseas was in place long before G-dubb was prez…yet the finger is getting pointed at him for making it happen, when that really isn’t the case.

    But take my company for ex..American Standard Trane Co….We are having several manufacturing jobs getting moved to Asian and Mexico…but this has been planned for a very long time….but the reality is that it will be taking place during the G-dubb administration.

    just a thought.

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325658

    I understand what your saying. Its a shame though that again it is the working middle class that gets hurt the most with these policies. Too much of the decisions our Gov. makes is based on whats good for “Big” businesses, and not about whats best for all the people these officals say they are going to REPRESENT when they get into office.

    3% of the population controls 90% of the economy. Those 3% are the ones who run the “Big” businesses. The rest of us 97% have to live with what is best for them.

    hooks
    Crystal, Mn.
    Posts: 1268
    #325660

    I have to agree SB. Our company too, has been outsourcing jobs since the mid to late nineties , you didn’t hear anything about it because Clinton was busy getting caught boffing one of his aides!

    We are now working on sourcing things in India when it gets to difficult to work with China. We’ve been in Tiawan and Japan as well, so to blame this on bush is Bull. Our state is our biggest problem not Bush when it come to being business friendly. I’m just waiting for it to be my job next.

    sgt._rock
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2517
    #325666

    How we vote doesn’t matter. Football will decide it all. Saw this in the news today.

    Since voters elected Franklin Roosevelt to his first of four terms in 1932, the Redskins have forecasted the next President. Over the past 18 elections, a Redskins win the weekend before Election Day has preceded a win by the incumbent party. On the other hand, a Redskins loss before the vote has preceded a loss by the incumbent party.

    Go Packers!!

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325678

    I’m not superstitious, and I most certainly will never cheer for the Packers!!

    stillakid2
    Roberts, WI
    Posts: 4603
    #325679

    I’d like to touch on the extreme left and the extreme right tendencies of the 2 parties.

    This isn’t politics…….. this is people. You’ve got one person’s view of Utopia vs. another view containing structure and order. Talk about “flip-flop”…… I’ve had to do some learning and changing during my years as an adult and the more I’ve learned, the more I’m finding that structure and order MUST exist. I used to stand along side all those who argue “live and let live” but it was always cored with a deeper conviction. I was more “live and let live…….. as long as it doesn’t affect me personally. My way is my way, like it, hate it, or step aside.”

    Hindsight being 20/20, I’ve seen the errors of my interpretations of freedom. I regret to admit, I’ve let it hurt others, apathy was a “go to” attitude, and until I found myself “being affected”, I didn’t understand the costs behind my choices.

    Once I realized that this world is populated with one thing, difference… I began looking to the wisdoms that have preceded us. We all have differences yet we’re all so commonly predictable! It’s like dying your hair orange, yellow, and purple to be an individual, yet there’s often a core of doing it because “everyone else is dying their hair too.” Same thing, different color………

    This is the swing of the pendalum. Preference. And preference is based on a “me” focus. So, we have a nation of peoples that are all different, but similar, and want their personal interests represented. The problem is that it’s impossible to represent a differing populus with only 2 choices. So then……. we create additional parties? Well…… they’re out there but not doing well because again, there are things on their “preference agenda” that really don’t represent………. “me”. So honestly, adding to the party options adds to more “misrepresenting”, as well representing. Until we all run for office ourselves, there will be an element of disagreement somewhere.

    So then, who is “centralized……. perfectly poised down the middle……. more closely representing of the rest of us?” It’s a grand wish! Take nothing away from the merits of wanting to be peaceful, but we’re dealing with people. Someone will always get stepped on, directly or indirectly, and hatred abounds as commonly as love does……. only it gets shoved under the rug more often! lol! See “structure and order”……..

    We, the undecided, fence riding, no waves making, 10 shades of gray embracing people “in the middle”…….. are really the biggest problem. 50 years ago…….. what was extreme left or right? How does it compare to today? How did we get here? It’s all very recent history and easily broken down into seeing that our “humanity” itself is on a behavior curve. When “the left” can’t break free through force, they’ve gone after the core of our future and baited the conservative citizen with appeals of compassion. This is STILL going on today! Anyone see the U of M Kerry rally? Who’s in attendence? The future. Young and influential minds. Listen to the attendees they interview! One girl last night said, “Hey, if ‘Kelso’ (acting character from That 70’s Show) votes for Kerry and someone decides to vote that way because Kelso did, I think that’s fine.” Anyone else see a red flag with this??? Anyway, look at who’s in attendence at the Bush rallies. Is there an overall age difference? Ding ding! One side appeals to a more relaxed view of life…… and the other appeals more toward a people with some life experience under their belt.

    We’re a divided nation, and I promise to author a book on it someday explaining why, but it’s not politics. Politicians drag us into these things and use action/response marketing for our votes!

    So….. left wing? Right wing? Look into our own recent history and look at the trend. We need two halfs to aid in the balancing of the people, but the parties aren’t left or right, we are. They’re just campaigning for a vote and then, if elected, WILL PURSUE PERSONAL INTEREST. No one gets what they want every time, but the pursuit is the same.

    So, given this truth…….. political voting can better be realized by the personal histories of our candidates. Look at Kerry, the individual…… his interests. Look at G.W., the individual……. and his interests. Based on the man they are inside, I have no choice but to bank on the man most in line with my convictions. This will come at the cost of “some other thing”….. somewhere…… sometime…… but worth it because “it was the lesser of 2 evils”. Well, someone has to be the scapegoat and it’s a nice phrase to cover our own lack of involvement. It’s not up to the politicians to make a difference, it’s up to us. And I say that……. being as guilty as anyone else. Good living often desensitizes ambition.

    Until responsibility and accountability return to being the key ingredients of our country’s agenda, we’ll continue to debate who’s the best man for elective office.

    uffdapete
    Rainy Lake, MN
    Posts: 394
    #325696

    If Kerry is so against out-sourcing, what percentage of Heinz products are produced outside the U.S.?

    How can Kerry possibly have a clue what middle class is all about? He and the Heinz babe are far removed from all but the wealthiest people in the world.

    I have the utmost respect for our military, but I think Kerry’s military record is a joke and his senate record might be worse than that. Even 4 months in Vietnam might have been hell, but I have many friends and relatives who also served there. None of them were back in 4 months unless it was in a body bag. And those who came back weren’t criticizing our country and military.

    3 purple hearts – did anybody else in the Vietnam war collect 3 purple hearts in 4 months? In fact I have an uncle (who passed away 9/04/01) who was wounded by enemy gunfire in WWII 3 times in 3 years and nearly died the last time. He was awarded 1 purple heart.

    I’m not saying Bush has all the answers, is a pauper, or a decorated vet, but many of Kerry’s attacks are extremely hypocritical in my opinion.

    As far as the endorsement by the New Yorker, I wouldn’t expect anything different.

    My conclusion – Kerry is unfit for command.

    StaleMackrel
    Posts: 443
    #325707

    I’m not happy with President Bush but—read the second chapter of the 9/11 report and you will understand why things are the way they are. I will vote for President Bush. The biggest single issue with me is the future appointment of federal judges. I believe that Presidents Carter and Clinton appointed the 9th district court in San Fran Sissy Co! May I say more?

    Shane Hildebrandt
    Blaine, mn
    Posts: 2921
    #325760

    and I am going to add that kerry has the support of most animal protection groups, where as Bush has more of the hunters and sportsman support. I vote Bush.

    shane

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325764

    Today, I took a piece of paper and wrote out a list of those issues I considered to be important to me. As I’ve said already, I’m voting Bush, but the more I think about it I question my choice, and I have voted republican my whole life!

    After putting this all together, I favor Bush for his position on guns and hunting, the fact he is not endorsed by PETA, and that he is endorsed by the NRA. I am very happy with his reaction to 9/11, and his battle against terrorism since then. Where I have some concerns is with his possible choices for Supreme Court appointments in the next term. Yes, I would like the court to be of a conservative nature for most purposes, but do not want to see womens freedom’s of choice (abortion rights) be taken away. I’m not overly enthused by his tax breaks to the wealthy, nor am I impressed with his gutting out of the enviromental protection laws in regards to wetlands and air pollution standards. Last, and maybe most important, after 9/11 he had the whole world backing us in anything we did in our war against terrorists, a true global coallition, but as of today, he’s pissed it all away with this war in Iraq, a war over WMD’s that ARE NOT THERE! I’m glad Saddam is out of there, but I am very concerned about the future in respect to foriegn relations. He has pissed a lot of other countries off, and not many of them trust him as a result.

    As for Kerry, well being backed by PETA is not a good endorsment by any means. His record is not to good when it comes to firearms, but I doubt any one man will ever decide the outcome of that argument, even the President, and personally, I don’t want to see fully automatic assult weapons on the streets anyway. Hand guns on the other hand (no pun intended) should be in every home if you want one, legally of course.

    Where I have a hard time dismissing Kerry though is when I consider the many other issues that are so important. I actually have him rated higher when you consider the enviroment, education, healthcare, foriegn policy, the economy, the fact he is pro-choice, and the fact, he and his party have historically been focused more on the middle and lower class population, which with all the jobs this country is shipping overseas becomes more and more important each day.

    I, up until today was thinking I had my mind made up based on only ONE issue, but now that things are coming down to push and shove, I started looking at more of the picture, and the more I thought about it, and considered it, maybe I’m not ready to walk into the voting booth just yet.

    I hope everyone will take the time to consider everything thats important to ALL phases of their lives before you decide, and then vote accordingly.

    sgt._rock
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2517
    #325779

    Great post JLDII.. Everyone needs to focus on the big picture and not just a few media hyped facts. I agree there are things about both candidates I like. People need to study all the issues and make up their minds. This isn’t an easy decision and whatever the outcome it will impact our lives. The sad part is that so many will not even attempt to go vote. Apathy is bliss.

    rivereyes
    Osceola, Wisconsin
    Posts: 2782
    #325790

    vote smart is a good idea… as is thinking… Im not one to plunge into political debates (or religous ones for that matter)… such things are personal choices…. but we have to remain objective and keep thinking in politics.. we have to avoid being “used” by those who have figured out the pyschology of their target groups… they know how to “sell” to us… they reach us with their advertisements just as if they were selling us a car or something… but a smart buyer will do more than just watch an ad and then rush down and buy that car… (though in some comericals that is exactly what they show “us” doing!)
    JLDII…. you are to be commended for thinking things through….
    another thing to consider… for those who fear the thought of hillary in the whitehouse… just like in chess its best to think a move or three ahead… if Kerry is in, her window of oppurtunity will close…. there are good things and bad things about both candidates… if we could only combine the good from both that would be awesome…

    jldii
    Posts: 2294
    #325796

    I’m all for keeping Hillary out of the Oval office. If Bush wins, she will probably be in the mix for the Dems in 4 years. BUT……..If Kerry wins this year and that window closes, she might end up being nominated for a seat on the Supreme Court. She is a power monger, and won’t stop at anything. Both of those scenarios scare the living daylights out of me.

    skippy783
    Dysart, IA
    Posts: 595
    #325804

    Quote:


    we have to avoid being “used” by those who have figured out the pyschology of their target groups… they know how to “sell” to us… they reach us with their advertisements just as if they were selling us a car or something


    I am a political science/public administration major and in one of my poli-sci classes we are talking about how candidates use language to gain support. They do it by being as vague as possible and letting the voters decide what they mean by those words. One word that we have used as an example a lot is the word “Values”….that word means different things to a lot of different people, so if a candidate says “I’m strong on values” each voter takes is to mean the values that they hold near and dear. Just something I find to be interesting and the rest of you might to and its also a reminder that you have to look way past the words that are coming out of each candidates mouth and look at their records.

    Whiskerkev
    Madison
    Posts: 3835
    #325905

    A vote for Bush is a vote against the environment. The Clear skies intiative rolls back environmental protections. A bigger gift to the energy companies, I can not fathom. If Bush is elected again without the worries of winning another election, I am sure he will have no problem fathoming some even better gift to them while poisoning our waters further. I will also predict his stellar number of press conferences will go to zero. Just my two bits

    john-tucker
    Northwest Illinois
    Posts: 1251
    #325933

    Quote:


    Both of those scenarios scare the living daylights out of me.


    They both scare me also Jack, but 4 years as Pres, if we where ever so gullible as to let that happen, would still be less damaging than a lifetime on the high court. It’s like Halloween all the time thinking of that person with any power whatsoever. Makes me shrivel cringe, and shudder all at once!

    Gianni
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts: 2063
    #325964

    Quote:


    A vote for Bush is a vote against the environment. The Clear skies intiative rolls back environmental protections.


    Requirements for the Clear Skies Act are a 70% cut in emissions in two phases.

    Which environmental protections, currently enforced, are rolled back by the Clear Skies act?

    The Sierra Club and NDRC bemoan the fact that it does nothing to prevent global warming. They might as well say that Bush killed the Easter Bunny. Global warming scaremongers have spent the last ten years adjusting their models because the imminent catastrophe which they predict is always lurking right around the corner has yet to manifest itself in even the most benign symptom. New York is still above water, and it annoys the hell out of them.

    A general note on all the encouragement to get out and vote, here’s something refreshing:

    If you are apathetic, stay home; don’t vote.
    If you aren’t personally invested in any issues, stay home; don’t vote.
    If you haven’t bothered to learn the candidates, stay home; don’t vote.

    The news carried a story that there was a large ‘get out the vote’ initiative in care centers for the severely handicapped and disabled. I guess if Clinton can execute them they should have the right to vote, but the idea is just sick.

    thflounder
    Plainfield, IL
    Posts: 58
    #326068

    Quote:


    Quote:


    The news carried a story that there was a large ‘get out the vote’ initiative in care centers for the severely handicapped and disabled. I guess if Clinton can execute them they should have the right to vote, but the idea is just sick.


    Why shouldn’t ALL americans have the right to vote. So if you were in a boating accident and lost your limbs and were in a care facility you shouldn’t be able to choose??? I have worked in care facilities for many years and find this comment BS. I know that there are standerds to the legally insane, and rightfully so, but if a is not insane and this person wants to vote let them. Is there a standard for IQ for voting??? If there is then I guess you should have a test for every american that choses to express there given right to vote.

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