Presidential Election.

  • raysresort
    Sauk City, WI
    Posts: 86
    #318315

    I haven’t delved much into Kerry’s military record but from what I understand neither candidate has any business bringing up their military service as some sort of heroric feat.

    Not surprising that both of them want to tout it as some chest pounding accomplishment tho considering what we’re in the midst of.

    As for the abortion issue, you’re a good man Rooster but I’d like to leave you with this thought…what about all the unwanted children, disabled or not, already in this world? Do we really need/want more children to go thru that?

    I’m not an abortion rights advocate and tbh, I’m not sure what the answer is there or if I’m willing to make a stand on either side of that one. I do think there are instances when abortion might be the right thing for some people but where to draw the line in the sand I’m not sure. I know my wife is against it and having worked with severely mentally disabled children at the Colony for 10 years prior to my meeting her, she loves those kids to death and believes alot of them understand alot more than people think. She used to run a licensed daycare out of our home too and was the only one in the area that would take special needs children and we opened our home to several of them during that time and I have to say one of them in particular really won my heart.

    My only hope is that whoever the next President is, I hope he has the strength, honor, and committment to lead us in the right direction. As a former military man, I cannot “not support” our troops and Commander no matter what or who or whether I agree or not. Our oldest was also in Afghanistan for a year.

    Oh, and just for the record, in the beginning weeks of the invasion I backed George’s decision and argued for him in several other similair debates. I was all for kickin’ A$$ and takin’ names. It’s what I was trained to do. But in hindsight and knowing what I know now, I don’t think it was the right thing to do at the time it was done. We had a more pressing agenda.

    I also believe George did not heed the advice of Billy during the transition of the Presidency. I do believe Bill had a little better understanding of the threat bin laden posed and George was too consumed with saddam even at that point in time to give enough attention to that threat.

    redneck
    Rosemount
    Posts: 2627
    #318349

    After a week on vacation I come back to a political debate. Go figure? I will just say that The Redneck vote will be for Mr. Bush. John Kerry is after our guns and that is one area that is sacred to this man. On that platform alone the Sportsmen need to line up for Bush. Look at Australia, not many years ago the sportsmen there said “It doesn’t matter who I vote for.” As they sit disarmed today I think they wish they had voted differently. Jake buddy, think about that before you vote.

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #318350

    Quote:


    John Kerry is after our guns and that is one area that is sacred to this man. On that platform alone the Sportsmen need to line up for Bush. Look at Australia, not many years ago the sportsmen there said “It doesn’t matter who I vote for.” As they sit disarmed today I think they wish they had voted differently. Jake buddy, think about that before you vote.


    haywood04
    Winona, Minnesota
    Posts: 1073
    #318383

    Rooster,

    I could not agree with you more!

    Quote:


    Second, and most important, is the blanket support the Dems. give to killing our unborn young.




    I also have a young son who will have long term disabilities but like you he with his sister and brother are the light of my life!

    The quick and easy disposal of our unborn is truly an American travesty. The Democratic position of making this OK at all levels is disgusting.

    oldbear
    State Center, Iowa
    Posts: 326
    #318396

    Well as usual I’m going to vote for the candidate that I dislike the leastees. At least I think President Bush is more sincere and I’d rather be led by him..

    Wadsworth
    Posts: 255
    #318413

    Just got back from a little time for yardwork, no, a lot of time from yardwork, which I hate.

    A couple things I want to go back to from my original statement.

    The story on John McCain being unfairly smeared by this group of “impartial vietnam vets” The segment I viewed on that story was from CNN, one of their “breaking news!” stories that they do constantly. I do not have a link to it, as not every single piece of information that I see is on the internet, I do not believe, however, that since I do not get all of my information from the internet, that that makes it sh*t as Gianni has suggested. It was a story that I saw on a 24 hour news channel, and if it came out of Senator John McCain’s mouth, (which it did) it is a fact.

    Comparing John Kerry to Jane Fonda? are you kidding me? because he attended an anti-war rally that she did also? I can’t say for sure, but I’m pretty sure Hanoi Jane isn’t carrying around a piece of shrapnel in her thigh. And that brings me to another point. If Kerry was never really “injured” in Vietnam, and his shrapnel wounds were superficial, wouldn’t they just pull them out and stick a bandaid over them? The guy is still carrying shrapnel in his body from a grenade, I’m guessing that it would have breen a pretty hard sell to the Navy doctors to ask them to implant it further into his body so that he could brag about it one day when he ran for President.

    Is John Kerry touting his war record for his benefit as a presidential candidate? Of course, it’s a qualification for the office, and he has every right to be proud of it. He came back from the war and protested against the politics of the war, he didn’t spit on the other troops when they got off the plane, he didn’t pat charlie on the back like Jane did (litteraly), he disagreed with his government, and let them know.

    As for the “swift boat veterans for truth”, do a little research on them, they are tied to the Bush campaign, they are basicly the Republican’s version of moveon.org, and their way of trying to jam Kerry’s service record, so that they don’t look like the bad guy.

    Gun control.

    Now here is one of my problems with the Democratic party. Spending the last several years of my life protecting and serving you fine folks, I can tell you from experience, that convicted felons don’t go to the local gun shop and ask to buy a new Glock for $500, then, after failing a background check, leave dissapointed, and concede defeat and give up their life of crime. I also understand that you can’t tell gun control goups that and expect them to listen. I do not, however, mind going to buy a gun, and having to endure a 3 minute background check, to me, it’s not an inconvenience, and I don’t see it as a sign of impending doom on responsible gun owners. The second ammendment to the U.S. constitution says that citizens have the right to bear arms, and that will never be overturned, they will never come knocking on your door to take your guns, unless (and please correct me if I’m wrong) the states all vote to repeal that ammendment.

    The bigger and much more immediate threat to sportsmen is habitat loss, and the loss of environmental protections. Consider this when you vote, please, it is a threat that we have to deal with NOW. I have read comments on this thread from some people saying that Clinton did nothing for sportsment, but without the clean water act, you wouldn’t even consider eating a fish out of the Mighty Miss. I could go on about National Forest protection, drilling in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge, etc, but we’ve already heard about it, and until Republicans go back to being true conservatives (ie, Teddie Roosevelt), they don’t deserve my vote as a sportsman, and if we don’t start addressing it, you’ll be sitting at home telling your grandkids what it used to be like.

    Bush linking Iraq to 9-11.

    I don’t have to read the 9-11 report for that. Go back to every speech Bush made before he attacked Iraq. Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeldt, while they were trying to make their case to attack Iraq, they couldn’t make a speech about Iraq without saying things like “after the attacks of 9-11, we need to take these steps to Make America safer” they couldn’t mention Iraq without saying the words “9-11” at least once in the same sentence.

    Looking at the results of overthrowing Saddam, how can we claim that country is less of a threat to the U.S. and the rest of the world now than it was when Saddam had control? Yes he was a tyrant to his own people, and a ruthless dictator, but now Iraq is nothing more than another version of the messed up, religously insane middle east terrorist breeding grounds. It is more of a threat to us now than it was when Saddam was there, and it will be for a very long time, at the expense of the lives of a lot of great men and women of the U.S. Military, all to settle W’s grudge, make Cheney and his pals richer, blah blah blah.

    If we were after ruthless dictators harboring weapons of mass destruction, why didn’t we start with North Korea first? All indications say that Kim is as ruthless or worse to his people than Saddam ever was. North Korea has basicly said “we got nukes, what are you going to do about it?” And what have we done about it? Asked them “please?”

    As I said, Kerry has his flaws, and there are things about him I don’t care for, but weighing out what is important to ME, he is the better of the two. I realize that there are people out there who feel the same about Bush, and think that he is the better of the two, but as I said before, please don’t try to convince anyone that he is the Perfect, Honest, Stand Up guy that some seem to be convinced of.

    Am I the only person who wishes John McCain was running in this race?

    Wadsworth
    Posts: 255
    #318414

    Holy Crap, I just realized that in my first post, when I typed Cheney’s first name, it came up as censored, so it appeared that in my first post I was typing profanity before I typed Cheney , that wasn’t the case, I wish I would have realized that, I was simply trying to type his first name, so when I typed it, I was reffering to Richard Cheney and Ken Lay, not Profanity Cheney, then Profanity Cheney and Ken Lay.

    Hopefully that explains that comment.

    Steve Plantz
    SE MN
    Posts: 12240
    #318417

    John,
    For what it is worth I knew that you were saying Cheney’s first name and not using profanity, and I think that most everyone else realized this also, even Gianni.
    The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago when I was listing the winners of the LPO and one of the guys had the same first name, talk about embarrassing

    Quote:


    Holy Crap, I just realized that in my first post, when I typed Cheney’s first name, it came up as censored, so it appeared that in my first post I was typing profanity before I typed Cheney , that wasn’t the case, I wish I would have realized that, I was simply trying to type his first name, so when I typed it, I was reffering to Richard Cheney and Ken Lay, not Profanity Cheney, then Profanity Cheney and Ken Lay.

    Hopefully that explains that comment.


    birdhunter88
    Cedar Falls, Iowa
    Posts: 168
    #318421

    I haven’t gone through all the comments and read each one as this thread has gotten quite long. But I would like to point out something on Kerry and his military service.

    I would like to know how a guy can spend 4 months…. now we are speaking a only 4 months in Vietnam and he “earned” or was “awarded” a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and “3” Purple Hearts. I say NO WAY !!! Audie Murphy wasn’t even that good. I’m sorry but I believe that Kerry’s military record has been exagerated beyond belief.

    It doesn’t really matter anyway….. The Democratic Party will never get my vote as long as they support Gun Control. Period……….

    bird

    SpinnerDave
    S.E. Iowa
    Posts: 669
    #318570

    Gotta be the G Man. I also will not consider voting Democratic till they change their tone on a lot of issues. Gun control, abortion and additional rights for the homosexuals. The Democratic party in the past generation has had a REAL problem with the truth.Can anyone tell me who has been kicked out of the nursing home since GW has been elected ? How about more people dying because of GWs enviromental policies. Gore proclaimed these thing loudly but none of them have come to pass.That is what really burns me. The Kerry campaign will continue to flounder because the truth is not in them . 4 MORE YEARS !

    Gianni
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts: 2063
    #318580

    I was hoping this thread would die…

    Quote:


    The story on John McCain being unfairly smeared by this group of “impartial vietnam vets” The segment I viewed on that story was from CNN, one of their “breaking news!” stories that they do constantly. I do not have a link to it, as not every single piece of information that I see is on the internet, I do not believe, however, that since I do not get all of my information from the internet, that that makes it sh*t as Gianni has suggested.


    My guess is that the CNN report was one of those “rumors are spreading” or “it’s being reported” reports, where they can toss something out with zero liability. If this were a true story, then it would be huge news and every reputable news source in the country would have run it, and it would be widely discussed in forums like democraticunderground and free republic. As it is, a Google Search turns up about 50k political blog sites, and I scanned through about the first 5 pages without seeing a single respected news report on it. Even the New York Times and LA Times didn’t run with this ‘news’ and that really says something about the credibility of the story. Unless you or someone else is offering testimonial that you personally received such a call from someone who identified themselves first and last names whom you can now associate with swiftboatvets, then I’ll continue with my skepticism.

    Quote:


    It was a story that I saw on a 24 hour news channel, and if it came out of Senator John McCain’s mouth, (which it did) it is a fact.


    With all due respect to the light of your world McCain christ Superstar, I refuse to accept that everything he (or anyone else) says as absolute truth. For someone like me who considers GW a moderate, stomaching McCain is somewhat difficult.

    Quote:


    Comparing John Kerry to Jane Fonda? are you kidding me? because he attended an anti-war rally that she did also?


    Hanoi Jane did not go before Congress and say that all American GI’s were war criminals.

    Link

    Quote:


    I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

    It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

    They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

    Congressional testimony of John Kerry (emphasis Gianni’s)


    Did he personally spit on them in airports? No, I think he did enough damage spitting into a microphone in Washington D.C. At least he was kind enough to warn protestors that spitting on soldiers was dangerous trade:

    Quote:


    I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn’t know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped.

    John F. Kerry, Congressional testimony
    emphasis Gianni’s


    Better watch out America, not only are our boys raping villagers and cutting off their ears on a daily basis, but when they come back they’re all raging psycopaths and you don’t want them. Spit on them in the airport, and they’ll probably wire a field phone to your testicles. Thanks for the FYI John!

    Quote:


    We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs as well as by search and destroy missions, as well as by Vietcong terrorism, and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Vietcong.

    We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum.

    John Kerry, Congressional Testimony


    Now why would he want to be president of a country that lost its morality 30 years ago?

    Quote:


    I don’t have to read the 9-11 report for that. Go back to every speech Bush made before he attacked Iraq.


    Something that’s in every speech by the POTUS shouldn’t be that hard to find and quote. All I’m asking is that you provide a quote from the president (supposedly found in ‘every speech’) where he says that Hussein is responsible for the 9/11 attack.

    Quote:


    Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeldt, while they were trying to make their case to attack Iraq, they couldn’t make a speech about Iraq without saying things like “after the attacks of 9-11, we need to take these steps to Make America safer” they couldn’t mention Iraq without saying the words “9-11” at least once in the same sentence.


    For fifty years after Pearl Harbor we heard about how America couldn’t continue an isolationist foreign policy because of the lessons of Pearl Harbor. Some people would apparently think us better off if we forgot the lessons of Pearl and 9/11, or just pretended not to learn anything from the two largest foreign attacks in the history of our nation.

    Quote:


    how can we claim that country is less of a threat to the U.S. and the rest of the world now than it was when Saddam had control? Yes he was a tyrant to his own people, and a ruthless dictator, but now Iraq is nothing more than another version of the messed up, religously insane middle east terrorist breeding grounds. It is more of a threat to us now than it was when Saddam was there, and it will be for a very long time,


    Global terrorism essentially requires state sponsorship. It requires both immense wealth and political influence to support a significant terrorist organization. Palestinian terrorism has demonstrated that rogues lack the manpower, the organization, and infrastructure to carry out a significant attack such as 9/11 (oh no! Now I’m doing it!).

    Quote:


    at the expense of the lives of a lot of great men and women of the U.S. Military, all to settle W’s grudge, make Cheney and his pals richer, blah blah blah.


    Thankfully, American fought it’s last Napoleonic war nearly a century ago. God Bless those serving and may He keep those who have been lost close. I have heard several speakers who have returned from the war, and none of them claim to have gone over there to make Cheney richer or settle a grudge. I think you do them a disservice to say otherwise without some hard evidence (evidence??? what’s that???)

    Quote:


    If we were after ruthless dictators harboring weapons of mass destruction, why didn’t we start with North Korea first?


    I think you answered your own question:

    Quote:


    North Korea has basicly said “we got nukes, what are you going to do about it?”


    Your willingness to sacrifice Japan and South Korea have been noted and filed. Thanks for playing.

    grinder
    Circla Pines, Mn.
    Posts: 24
    #318640

    I vote for Kerry all the way. I will take peace and prosperity, and environmental protection any day over an adminstration that wanted to drain wetlands, and gut the clean water act! Bush extended the CRP program, but waited 3 years and did it only just prior to the election. He cares nothing for the environment. The world will be a safer place(see all the 4 star Generals that have supported him)with someone who can think on his own and is not a puppet of big oil companies. I have a letter from a senior writer for B.A.S.S that states ” Bush has done nothing to help our fisheries and much to hurt it ” National defense, health care, the economy will all be better with Kerry. The League of Conservation Voters has given Bush an F rating on environmental issues, the lowest of any President. Lastly, if you hunt and fish and dont care about the environment your fooling yourself! PS. I hunt and fish the River, and a former Naval Officer during the Vietman era.

    carpking
    Janesville, WI.
    Posts: 859
    #318650

    Quote:


    The world will be a safer place(see all the 4 star Generals that have supported him)with someone who can think on his own and is not a puppet of big oil companies. I have a letter from a senior writer for B.A.S.S that states ” Bush has done nothing to help our fisheries and much to hurt it ”



    Puppet of big oil companies? How so? What does he gain? Is he even in the oil business any more…NO! Maybe hes a puppet of the Major Leagues too since he used to own the Rangers? What has he done to hurt our fisheries…proof please!

    raysresort
    Sauk City, WI
    Posts: 86
    #318693

    Wow! You don’t believe Bush and Oil companies are one in the same?
    You’re kidding right? EVERYONE knows that. Least I thought everyone knew that. lol

    carpking
    Janesville, WI.
    Posts: 859
    #318698

    Actually, NO I dont’ believe President Bush and the so called oil companies are one in the same! Personally I think that is as ridiculous as saying Senator Kerry is a puppet to the ketchup industry!

    joeyno5
    Rochester MN.
    Posts: 486
    #318702

    You don’t have to be a politician to understand that presidental candidates have some link to some sort of business. To me you are divided on a fine line of those who work with their hands and those who make other peoples hands work for them. The fact that people choose to respond on these post is great, keep in mind it makes alot more sense to support your opinion with facts and not personal beliefs or in some cases misbeliefs. This is a free country and the right to vote is only practiced by around 51% of us. If you Won’t take the time to do the research and vote on the issues as a whole, then don’t complain about how the counrty is run. Ask youself are you better off today than you were 4 years ago, ask yourself if you are happy with your health care, ask youself is your job still going to be there in 6 months or overseas, ask yourself if you like the idea of working overtime for regular pay, ask yourself if Texas is such a great state what does your current rate of pay at your job pay there. Just an idea vote your job! Tight lines #5

    raysresort
    Sauk City, WI
    Posts: 86
    #318706

    Kerry and Ketchup? Wow. I didn’t know that!

    SpinnerDave
    S.E. Iowa
    Posts: 669
    #318727

    What a bunch of political BS. How did GW change anything enviromentally ? Executive orders? That should be easy to find,you know of any . It take a bill to make or change laws.Know of any of them?House file # or anything ,or are you just repeating political propaganda.One of the books from the Hate Bush Book of the month club said a super secret deal was formed between the Saudis and GW to make sure we cheap oil before the election. How is that one coming along. like I said in my last post the Democratic party and its talking heads have a real problem with the truth and it filters down to the party faithful who will believe and repeat anything bad. It is not good when the retoric is this venomous. We have seen it here !

    Gianni
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts: 2063
    #318733

    Quote:


    I will take peace and prosperity


    So will I. Apparently you’re one of the few with priveleged insider information into the details of the Kerry Plan(tm) for Global Peace. So far, my understanding is that it consists mainly of John F Kerry saying that he can bring about global harmony (I assume much like what existed at the time of the first WTC bombing, the embassy attacks, and the bombing of the USS Cole?).

    Quote:


    adminstration that wanted to drain wetlands, and gut the clean water act!


    The alterations to the clean water act appear to be jurisdictional issues, although it’s difficult to get detailed information because you have to fight your way through enough bilge from grossly partisan sierra club type groups that a bit of raw sewage would be a relief. Perhaps we could get one of the site experts on the clean water act (I know you’re out there) to chime in and discuss the specifics of the proposals and the projected impacts on our fisheries and wetlands.

    Quote:


    someone who can think on his own and is not a puppet of big oil companies.


    Adressed already, or so it seems. Any evidence that you (or anyone) has the Bush is acting specifically on behalf of the oil industry, or even better, a specific person with whom he is tied in which an unquestionable conflict of interest is present is big news. CNN and the NYT will make you rich and famous… Don’t forget us little people when you’re at the top.

    Quote:


    I have a letter from a senior writer for B.A.S.S that states ” Bush has done nothing to help our fisheries and much to hurt it “


    Please post it in full, I am interested in what they have to say.

    Quote:


    The League of Conservation Voters has given Bush an F rating on environmental issues, the lowest of any President.


    The League of Conservation Voters?

    Link

    Quote:


    By the end of 2003, single party control of two branches of government had broken the deadlock that had prevented the Bush administration from achieving many of the anti-environment legislative priorities developed in closed door meetings with corporate lobbyists. The partisan tactics employed by Republican leaders, particularly in the House, left pro-environment members from both parties with little option but to use procedural maneuvers such as the filibuster in the Senate and the amendment process in the House to try and achieve their goals.


    And where do we find an anti-Bush blog? In the congressional scorecard, of course! In fact, the phrase “Bush administration” appears 23 times in their congressional scorecard.

    Quote:


    At the close of 2002, many of the Bush administration’s legislative goals were unfulfilled, largely because the Senate’s Democratic leadership had succeeded in blocking the worst of their anti-environment, pro-industry proposals.


    Quote:


    The Bush administration has been working to undercut
    and scale back this cornerstone environmental law in a number of different contexts, including transportation planning and forest management.


    Quote:


    The Bush administration has amassed a long track record of nominating federal judges who are hostile to basic environmental
    safeguards.


    Quote:


    Even with this infusion of taxpayer dollars, the Bush administration underfunded the Superfund program by at least $175 million in fiscal year 2003, according to an EPA Inspector General’s report, and this pattern will likely continue as Superfund is forced to compete with hundreds of other environmental programs for funding.


    [Gianni note: Appropriations and budget are controlled by Congress]

    Here’s an interesting one:

    Quote:


    By hampering the ability of the U.S. Agency for International
    Development to fund voluntary family planning and other reproductive health programs, the Bush administration’s gag rule has already forced clinics in Ethiopia, Kenya, Zambia, and Romania to close down. The rule has also cut off many family planning organizations from contraceptive supplies and impeded international HIV/AIDS prevention efforts.


    This is of course, under the sub-heading International Family Planning, which is, of course, a serious concern for non-partisan environmental groups (barf alert). What it is in reference to is the “Mexico City Policy” first instituted by President Reagan, continued by George HW Bush, repealed by Clinton, and re-instituted by President George W. Bush. It is essentially an executive policy which states that international organizations which support abortions cannot receive support from American tax dollars. It appears as though our independent environmental advocacy group thinks we’d be better off if more children in the third world could only get the tack hammer/shop-vac treatment so readily available to those here at home.

    Well, I’m sure the rest of the report will make interesting reading for those who wish to follow up with it. For those who wish to pursue this, a quick check of page 2 of the 1981 report will probably give you a good idea of what this ‘non-partisan’ group is really about.

    I was, of course, unable to find where they gave President Bush an “F”, much less any historical data that shows that he has the lowest score of any president ever.

    The 1991 report (just scanning the second year of each new president, for those who think I have too much time) doesn’t have the sort of gloom-n-doom overtones as those published during Reagan, GHWB, and now GWB’s terms:

    Quote:


    The Leage of Conservation Voters has scored more votes than usual for the first year of a congressional session, in large part because of the activism of the Clinton administration. The new team in the white house has pushed ahead on many legislative fronts, and — in contrast with the last 12 years — built environmental proposals into many of its initiatives. But the Republican leadership’s role in opposing the president’s agenda resulted in sharp contrasts between the parties, as Republican members had to make the difficult choice between voting their party’s leadership and voting for environmental progress.


    If you ask me, all the League is missing is a blue dress.

    raysresort
    Sauk City, WI
    Posts: 86
    #318736

    In reference to Bush and the oil companies…

    I don’t need to get hit in the head with a 2×4 to know it would hurt.

    Perhaps you’d like a signed confession?

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #318743

    No, just a scrap of evidence that he has acted in a biased manner towards the oil companies would do just fine.

    Quote:


    Perhaps you’d like a signed confession?


    scottsteil
    Central MN
    Posts: 3817
    #318758

    This has been very interesting reading. I want to thank Gianni for his posts. I personally enjoy reading some facts versus all the propaganda that is typically thrown around in political forums.

    raysresort
    Sauk City, WI
    Posts: 86
    #318761

    Haha! As long as it says what you want it to say it’s all good. Right?

    Watch the gas prices plummet just before the election and George will say, “look what I did America! Vote for me!”

    Just a little prediction for y’all.

    Of course I’m sure that will be pure coicidence. Right?

    scottsteil
    Central MN
    Posts: 3817
    #318764

    Ray, you obviously have a different opinion than Gianni. I would be interested in reading some facts/evidence from you supporting your side. I haven’t seen much yet. Whether I agree with them or not is not the point.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #318766

    It won’t be a “coincidence” as you called it, it’s called a seasonal trend. And those supporting Mr. Kerry’s election have done a wonderful job of making sure we’re all on the look out for it when it happens. And when it does, it will somehow ‘prove’ Mr. Bush had some behind the scenes control over gas pricing that will once and for all show he in bed with the oil companies.

    But this is what 90 seconds of research will find for you if you have an open mind and the need to gather your own facts vs. being spoon fed a bunch of garbage.

    Seasonal Trends in Energy Pricing

    The graph above shows seasonal trending over the last 15 years which spans administrations from both parties.

    When is it lowest? What kind of crystal ball does one need to produce this type of prediction?

    You don’t. It’s a VERY safe bet. Not a guarantee but certainly a reliable trend.

    You cannot use your prediction to prove Mr. Bush has any control over pricing… but I feel I know why this little tid bit has been in the media so much lately.

    Pure and simple propoganda. And they’ll feed it to you all day long if you’re willing to choke it down.

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #318767

    Isn’t Chaney a major stockholder (maybe he was CEO or something?) of Haliburtan, the oil company that got the contract in Iraq? Just thought I heard something about that, and I’m too lazy to look it up right now.

    I figured some of you political sharks would know of the top of your heads.

    DaveB
    Inver Grove Heights MN
    Posts: 4465
    #318772

    Chaney was the CEO of Halliburton. IN fairness, he likely got the job at Halliburton because of his influence in Washington and connections established during his time working in the White House and Congress.

    He was a politian first, then CEO of Halliburton for 4 years, then Vice Pres.

    His shares were put into a blind trust. That mean that someone manages his money and does not let him know what they do, he does not even know if he still owns any Halliburton or not.

    BTW-since Bush took office in 2001, Halliburton shares are down 55%. The S&P 500 is down 8%.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #318773

    I have a peach of an idea………….

    This is a good thread…….

    But instead of: “I hate Bush”………..

    Can we inturn get: “Why I like Kerry”………..

    There appears to be more “Bush hate” than “Kerry love” on the democratic side…………

    I’m still trying to figure out why people should vote for Kerry. Is it because we should remove Bush or is it because Kerry will make a better president? How will Kerry make a better president???

    mossboss
    La Crescent, MN
    Posts: 2792
    #318775

    Quote:


    I’m still trying to figure out why people should vote for Kerry. Is it because we should remove Bush or is it because Kerry will make a better president? How will Kerry make a better president???


    That’s a good question Gary, and what I am trying to figure out before November.

    Thanks for the info on Chaney.

    Dave Koonce
    Moderator
    Prairie du Chien Wi.
    Posts: 6946
    #318776

    The ant and the grasshopper

    OLD VERSION

    The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his
    house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he’s a
    fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is
    warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies
    out in the cold.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible

    MODERN VERSION:

    The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long,
    building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper
    thinks he’s a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come
    winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to
    know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are
    cold and starving. CBS, NBC, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the
    shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home
    with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.
    How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is
    allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper,
    and everybody cries when they sing, “It’s Not Easy Being Green.” Jesse
    Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news
    stations film the group singing, “We shall overcome.” Jesse then has the
    group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake. Tom Daschle &
    John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has
    gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate
    tax hike on the ant to make him pay his “fair share.” Finally, the EEOC
    drafts the “Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act,” retroactive to the
    beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate
    number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes,
    his home is confiscated by the government. Hillary gets her old law firm to
    represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case
    is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of
    single-parent welfare recipients. The ant loses the case. The story ends as we
    see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government
    house he is in, which just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around
    him because he doesn’t maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. The
    grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned,
    is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: Vote Republican

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