X2
March 1, 2014 at 9:00 pm
#1392963
WW 3
-
March 1, 2014 at 11:54 pm #1392990
Any country that has women with beards under their arms scare the He77 out of me!
March 21, 2014 at 8:41 am #1397976One point of view to consider for those who say “if the Crimea people vote then let Russia have Crimea”. This post also responds to all those who say live and let live. World politics do not work that way. You can not let a country go wild and overtake other countries and not respond… I think we had a good example of that in the 1940s. That is an extreme example but the following is very important to consider.
Ukraine got rid of all nukes 20 years ago as a deal with the US. This lost leverage is felt by the Ukraines to be one of the reasons Russia felt it could bully its way past and steal Crimea.
How should the USA president respond given that scenario? If we want to convince as many countries as possible to rid of nukes then we need to also protect vulnerable countries from acts of aggression by other countries if possession of nukes is no longer a deterrent.
So… if Russia wants Crimea then they potentially could go about annexing the land but it would need to be done in a diplomatic way with Ukraine… not with Russian military in Crimea.
What is Alaskans decided they wanted to be annexed by Russia with armed Russians in the country during a time of unrest in mainland USA. Alaskans voted for the annexation. We still would obviously not recognize the annexation…
The world can not accept this vote as legitimate for these reasons.
March 21, 2014 at 9:32 am #1397988Jimmy Fallon got footage of Obama and Putin’s last phone conversation. This is worth the watch!
March 21, 2014 at 9:58 am #1397998Quote:
Quote:
Rush Limbaugh for President !! Or Sarah Palin.
Palin has been keeping an eye on Russia for us………from her house.
DT
You do know that she never said this. It was said by Tina Fey in a satire. Somehow, many think this Palin really did say/believe this.
March 21, 2014 at 10:04 am #1397999Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
If Texas wanted to be part of Mexico, isnt that between the US, Mexico and the people of Texas? Would we be OK with Russia and China imposing sanctions on any party involved?
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
March 21, 2014 at 10:05 am #1398000Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Rush Limbaugh for President !! Or Sarah Palin.
Palin has been keeping an eye on Russia for us………from her house.
DT
You do know that she never said this. It was said by Tina Fey in a satire. Somehow, many think this Palin really did say/believe this.
She said “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” when talking about Russia. So.. yes, Sarah can keep an eye on Russia for us from Alaska.
March 21, 2014 at 10:09 am #1398004Quote:
Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
If Texas wanted to be part of Mexico, isnt that between the US, Mexico and the people of Texas? Would we be OK with Russia and China imposing sanctions on any party involved?
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
Dude, the Russian army is in Crimea with guns at the time of the vote.
Read my post above. It answers your questions.
The vote is meaningless.
Again, what if the people of Alaska decided to hold an unsanctioned vote to annex to Russia. Would we honor the vote as the USA? Hell no.
The vote is a sham. Russia needs to deal with the Ukraine government to annex a part of land not a few folks living there voting with Russian troops holding weapons in Crimea.
March 21, 2014 at 10:11 am #1398007Quote:
Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
If Texas wanted to be part of Mexico, isnt that between the US, Mexico and the people of Texas? Would we be OK with Russia and China imposing sanctions on any party involved?
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
And the answer is NO. If Texas voted to join Mexico the American citizens and the US government would not accept it. What if the renters of an apartment complex decided to vote to join another apartment complex, you think the landlord is going to follow along? Of course not. That is not an example of democracy.
And this issue goes much deeper to the control and ownership of nuclear weapons. Read my post above
March 21, 2014 at 10:15 am #1398008Quote:
Quote:
Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
If Texas wanted to be part of Mexico, isnt that between the US, Mexico and the people of Texas? Would we be OK with Russia and China imposing sanctions on any party involved?
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
Dude, the Russian army is in Crimea with guns at the time of the vote.
Read my post above. It answers your questions.
The vote is meaningless.
Again, what if the people of Alaska decided to hold an unsanctioned vote to annex to Russia. Would we honor the vote as the USA? Hell no.
The vote is a sham. Russia needs to deal with the Ukraine government to annex a part of land not a few folks living there voting with Russian troops holding weapons in Crimea.
The difference is, from what I have heard, MOST of the people in crimea ARE russian and supported the russian troops when they entered crimea. What percentage of alaska is russian?
March 21, 2014 at 10:15 am #1398009Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Rush Limbaugh for President !! Or Sarah Palin.
Palin has been keeping an eye on Russia for us………from her house.
DT
You do know that she never said this. It was said by Tina Fey in a satire. Somehow, many think this Palin really did say/believe this.
She said “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” when talking about Russia. So.. yes, Sarah can keep an eye on Russia for us from Alaska.
She really said:
“They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska”
and she was 100% accurate.
March 21, 2014 at 10:22 am #1398012Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
If Texas wanted to be part of Mexico, isnt that between the US, Mexico and the people of Texas? Would we be OK with Russia and China imposing sanctions on any party involved?
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
Dude, the Russian army is in Crimea with guns at the time of the vote.
Read my post above. It answers your questions.
The vote is meaningless.
Again, what if the people of Alaska decided to hold an unsanctioned vote to annex to Russia. Would we honor the vote as the USA? Hell no.
The vote is a sham. Russia needs to deal with the Ukraine government to annex a part of land not a few folks living there voting with Russian troops holding weapons in Crimea.
The difference is, from what I have heard, MOST of the people in crimea ARE russian and supported the russian troops when they entered crimea. What percentage of alaska is russian?
What percentage of Texans are Mexican?
That question is meaningless.
What if Alaska wanted to vote to not annex to Russia but rather form an independent nation. America simply is not going to recognize that. The vote does not count when it is note coordinated with the government of the country and while Russian troops are standing outside the voting poles with machine guns.
How many distressed Jewish people would have voted pro-Germany if forced to prior to the Holocaust? Many, many of them. Self-preservation. It does not count.
Besides, how is America supposed to address the nuclear weapons issue I mentioned before. Either we are the world leader and responsible for this stuff in other countries or we are not. We can’t selectively be leaders in that sense.
March 21, 2014 at 11:28 am #1398033Quote:
Something confuses me about this whole issue, do the people of Crimea what to be part of Russia or not? If they do, why is it anyone else’s business and why is the world reacting so strongly against it. If they dont, why arent they making more noise about it?
I dont see how the US and western allies can promote democracy and oppose a people who voted (is there proof it was a fake election?) to cecede from a country.
Can someone explain this mess to me and what I am missing? I havent spent enough time on the issue and must be confusing the facts.
First of all, when there’s masked troops and tanks sitting in front of the polling place, do you really need further proof that this was NOT a fair election? They had cameras recording who was entering the polling place and of course there is the threat that any district who voted against Russia would be retaliated against.
Also, given the fact that the Russians counted the vote with no independent monitoring whatsoever, is there ANY chance that the count could be construed as fair? Even if the Russians ran a straight game, the perception is that the whole thing was rigged and the Russians cannot prove otherwise.
Your analogy of what if Texas wanted to become part of Mexico isn’t really on-point. To be similar to the Crimea situation, Mexico would have to invade Texas, take it over, and then hold an election with no monitoring and no independent way to verify results.
So if Mexico did this and claimed 97.5% of Texans wanted to join Mexico, would you believe them? I don’t think anybody in their right mind would.
Regardless of ethnic makeup, nothing gave Russia the right to invade and take over Crimea. Is it in our interest to start a shooting war over it? No. But Putin and his Neo Soviet ideas need to be brought to heel.
Putin lives with an invented historical narrative of Soviet glory and triumph. The reality is that the US and the NATO countries broke the Soviet Union by hamstringing its economy and strangling it by isolation. That strategy worked once and it’ll work again. Get ready for the those good ol’ Soviet days, Putin. Lines for bread, lines for shoes, rationing of everything, and a people who hate the government and you with every breath they take.
Grouse
March 21, 2014 at 11:59 am #1398041Putin claims that he was defending Russians living in Crimea. Are these claims false?
Hasn’t the US defended their citizens abroad?
Regarding Texas, Alaska, etc claiming independence, I dont think it is much of a stretch. Would the US LET them, no. But SHOULD a country that espouses democracy let a portion of that nation have the freedom to leave? To me, that is a more interesting question and not as easy to answer.
Furthermore, as I questioned earier, why are other nations intervening? Is it to be anti-Russian, pro-Ukrainian or to protect their own boarders and lands?
BTW, I am saying that I support Russia’s claims to Crimea. It just seems like the main argument is Putin is a bad guy, countries can’t do that, etc and my sensibilities are telling me that there is more to the story.
March 21, 2014 at 12:05 pm #1398048DaveB. If that is how you feel why in the hell did we fight the civil war. The south should apprently be its own country based on your very very flawed logic
The vote included armed Russian soldiers for Christ sake
March 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm #1398050Quote:
Putin claims that he was defending Russians living in Crimea. Are these claims false?
Hasn’t the US defended their citizens abroad?
Regarding Texas, Alaska, etc claiming independence, I dont think it is much of a stretch. Would the US LET them, no. But SHOULD a country that espouses democracy let a portion of that nation have the freedom to leave? To me, that is a more interesting question and not as easy to answer.
Furthermore, as I questioned earier, why are other nations intervening? Is it to be anti-Russian, pro-Ukrainian or to protect their own boarders and lands?
BTW, I am saying that I support Russia’s claims to Crimea. It just seems like the main argument is Putin is a bad guy, countries can’t do that, etc and my sensibilities are telling me that there is more to the story.
I held a vote in my home today and with a 100% agreement my 1.2 acre home is now no longer part of the US. I no longer new to pay taxes as far as I am concerned
The new country shall from this day forward be known as Meestrovanistan
March 21, 2014 at 12:15 pm #1398054I think the south was on the WRONG side of slavery but the right side of secession.
State’s rights used to mean something.
March 21, 2014 at 12:18 pm #1398055Quote:
I think the south was on the WRONG side of slavery but the right side of secession.
State’s rights used to mean something.
Interesting comments that avoid addressing my question
March 21, 2014 at 12:18 pm #1398056Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html
and climbing.
Kind of interesting CNN is owned by a division of Time Warner and Time Warner is on that list.
March 21, 2014 at 12:39 pm #1398062Quote:
Putin claims that he was defending Russians living in Crimea. Are these claims false?
Hasn’t the US defended their citizens abroad?
Regarding Texas, Alaska, etc claiming independence, I dont think it is much of a stretch. Would the US LET them, no. But SHOULD a country that espouses democracy let a portion of that nation have the freedom to leave? To me, that is a more interesting question and not as easy to answer.
Russia is NOT defending its citizens.
This gets into a concept that most Americans cannot understand: Ethnic identity vs national identity.
In many places in the world, people identify themselves entirely by their ethnic group. Their social structure, education, language, customs, view of history, and entire concept of self is tied not to what country they live in, but to their ethnic identity.
Strong ethnic group representation is very challenging and creates a lot of tension within any nation state or form of government. The view of “majority rule” has to be very carefully managed against it becoming tyranny of the majority where one ethnic group tramples all the others.
The Russians in Crimea are NOT Russian citizens. They belong to the Russian ethnic group. So the Russian invasion cannot be justified by saying that Putin was defending Russian citizens. The were Ukrainian citizens, not Russian citizens, and they were never threatened by anyone other than Putin-planted gangs of Russians who were sent to provide justification for an invasion.
Ethnic Russians were NOT a majority within the Ukraine, so this narrative of “the oppression of the Russian majority” is a complete invention of Putin’s to justify an invasion.
There is only a Russian majority when you redraw the map such that it includes the ONLY area in the Ukraine with a majority of ethnic Russians.
Again, your comparison of Texas or Alaska is off base because it’s not the citizens of Texas getting together and holding a free, fair, and unbiased vote. If Russia invaded Alaska and then held a vote and told us that 97% of Alaskans voted to join Russia, would you believe them?
Grouse
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.