Water or not, doesn’t matter

  • Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1283622

    While I was looking up who voted on our popular drain plug law, I came across this.

    Doesn’t matter if there’s AIS in your boat or even IF there’s water in your boat. Guilty…

    OAH 11-2000-22841-2
    STATE OF MINNESOTA
    OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
    FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
    In the Matter of the Appeal of the
    Invasive Species/Infested Waters
    Citation Issued to Donald James
    Diedrich; Citation No. 129312
    FINDINGS OF FACT,
    CONCLUSIONS AND
    RECOMMENDATION
    This matter came on for a Prehearing Telephone Conf
    erence before
    Administrative Law Judge Barbara L. Neilson on Augu
    st 14, 2012. Conservation Officer
    Adam Block participated in the Conference on behalf
    of the Department of Natural
    Resources (DNR). Donald J. Diedrich participated o
    n his own behalf. The parties
    agreed that no formal hearing would be needed and t
    hat the Administrative Law Judge
    could make a recommendation based on the record cre
    ated during the Prehearing
    Telephone Conference. The OAH record closed at the
    conclusion of the conference
    call on August 14, 2012.
    STATEMENT OF ISSUE
    The issue presented in this matter is whether Donal
    d J. Diedrich was properly
    issued a civil citation under Minn. Stat. §84D.10,
    subd. 4(b),
    1
    on May 12, 2012, for
    transporting his watercraft with the drain plug in
    place.
    The Administrative Law Judge concludes that Mr. Die
    drich violated Minn. Stat.
    § 84D.10, subd. 4(b), on that date, and recommends
    that the Commissioner affirm the
    Citation.
    Based on the proceedings herein, the Administrative
    Law Judge makes the
    following:
    FINDINGS OF FACT
    1. On May 12, 2012, Donald J. Diedrich transported
    his boat from his home
    with the drain plug removed. He stopped to pick up
    a friend at the friend’s home, which
    is located two blocks away from Prior Lake. They p
    roceeded to the Sandpoint public
    access on the north side of Prior Lake. At some po
    int during the ride to the access, Mr.
    Diedrich’s friend (who was riding in the boat) put
    the boat’s drain plug in place.
    2
    1
    Unless otherwise noted, all citations to Minnesota
    Statutes are to the 2011 edition.
    2
    Test. of Donald Diedrich.
    2
    2. Conservation Officer Adam Block was on duty at t
    he Sandpoint public
    access on Prior Lake on May 12, 2012. From his pos
    ition, he could monitor vehicle
    traffic on Carriage Hill Parkway, which is a public
    road near the access. Officer Block
    issued citations to individuals who he had observed
    traveling on Carriage Hill Parkway
    and entering the public launch area pulling watercr
    aft with drain plugs in place.
    3
    3. At approximately 6:00 p.m., Officer Block saw Mr
    . Diedrich’s pick-up truck,
    which was pulling a red Lund boat, enter the public
    access from Carriage Hill Parkway.
    At no time while Officer Block was watching Mr. Die
    drich and his boat did anyone put
    the drain plug into the boat. The plug was in plac
    e in the boat from the time it left the
    public road until it entered the public access.
    4
    4. Officer Block issued Mr. Diedrich Civil Citation
    No. 129312. The citation
    assessed a $50 penalty for transporting watercraft
    with the drain plug not removed.
    5
    5. Mr. Diedrich filed a timely appeal of the citati
    on.
    Based on the Findings of Fact, the Administrative L
    aw Judge makes the
    following:
    CONCLUSIONS
    1. This matter is properly before the Administrativ
    e Law Judge and the
    Commissioner of Natural Resources pursuant to Minn.
    Stat. §§ 14.50 and 116.072,
    subd. 6.
    2. Minnesota Statutes § 84D.10, subd. 4(b), states:
    “Drain plugs, bailers,
    valves, or other devices used to control the draini
    ng of water from ballast tanks, bilges,
    and live wells must be removed or opened while tran
    sporting water-related equipment.”
    3. DNR Conservation Officers are authorized to issu
    e warnings or citations to
    a person who violates Minn. Stat. § 84D.10, subd. 4
    (b), by failing to remove plugs from
    water-related equipment before transporting that eq
    uipment.
    6
    4. Pursuant to Minn. Stat. § 84D.13, subd. 8, an ap
    peal of a civil citation shall
    be considered under the procedures in Minn. Stat. §
    116.072, subd. 6, if the person who
    received the citation requests a hearing within 15
    days after receipt of the citation. Mr.
    Diedrich filed a timely appeal and request for hear
    ing.
    5. The Department has substantiated the violation
    and Citation.
    6. It is appropriate that the Commissioner affirm I
    nvasive Species Civil
    Citation No. 129312 and require Mr. Diedrich to pay
    a $50 fine for violating Minn. Stat.
    § 84D.10, subd. 4(b).
    3
    Testimony of Adam Block.
    4
    Test. of A. Block.
    5
    Test. of A. Block; Civil Citation No. 129312.
    6
    See Minn. Stat. § 84D.13, subd. 4(4).

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1195924

    What good would the law be any other way ? (not saying it’s a good law on principal) Really ? You can leave your plug in, if you have no ais ? How could you enforce that ? Plug goes in when you unhook the straps

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195931

    I glued my plug in.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1195933

    To me this is like getting a speeding ticket, not because you were speeding, but because your car is capable of exceeding the speed limit. I didn’t see anywhere in the court report where the was a mention of water in his boat. Or visible vegetation hanging on the trailer. What was the reason to expect he was transporting AIS? It doesn’t sound like there was one. Now if he was running around with a bilge full of water after fishing the Mississippi River… write that ticket all day long. And how easy is that to check? Just pull the plug. If water runs out then at least there’s grounds for suspicion.

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #1195934

    nice try but …
    we all know that logic and reason has no place in the development and/or enforcement of AIS laws/regulations

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195935

    Awesome analogy James.

    Interested in getting into State politics? Please?

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1195937

    Where do you guys stand on the interview/inspection when you are loading up and leaving? It’s wearing a little thin. Maybe it depends on who’s doing it…

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195943

    Since I never had one, I might be a little off…but IMHO as long as the are not mandatory I’m good with it.

    I’m the guy that goes to the Zeb check station on the St Croix just to listen what they have to say…on my time schedule. If I’ve heard it before and am in a hurry, I would like to be able to turn down the speech.

    (I only launch on two rivers that are infested anyway).

    If the inspector could help save me the time of checking for AIS…why would I not allow him to look?

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #1195953

    Quote:


    If the inspector could help save me the time of checking for AIS…why would I not allow him to look?


    That’s exactly what I do, try and get my money’s worth out of them. “Hey kid, while you’re at it climb under there and look for weeds around the axle.”

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1195959

    Quote:


    Quote:


    If the inspector could help save me the time of checking for AIS…why would I not allow him to look?


    That’s exactly what I do, try and get my money’s worth out of them. “Hey kid, while you’re at it climb under there and look for weeds around the axle.”


    And I agree with that, but you know how some people can be with a whiff of authority. Might just be the rotaion of people at my landing but they can be a tad annoying.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13475
    #1195960

    Ok, I’ll plead ignorance on this topic as I have a question relating to “transport”
    Where is the actual designation “line” if you will that a boat is being transported? I’ve been to busy launches where you prep for launch down the road or road side, in a parking lot, and so on. As I read the law, I see the term Transport used frequently, but don’t see anything that clearly defines the difference between transporting and launching – and where the demarcation would take place.

    lhprop1
    Eagan
    Posts: 1899
    #1195962

    Quote:


    I painted ‘plug in’ on my transom saver.


    I attached it to my boat key with a caribiner. I have to take the plug off the key ring before I can put the key in to start the motor. So far, it’s proved to be idiot proof for this idiot.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195963

    Randy, it really doesn’t matter if I’m reading your question correctly…although I haven’t heard of anyone being cited leaving the launch until they hit the public road.

    This is not gospel, just an observation.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13475
    #1195967

    Quote:


    Randy, it really doesn’t matter if I’m reading your question correctly…although I haven’t heard of anyone being cited leaving the launch until they hit the public road.

    This is not gospel, just an observation.



    That is my point. What if you need to pull over road-side on a public road to complete securing your rig before you actually leave. I’ve seen launches to packed that you can not remain in a parking lot to complete any of these tasks without hogging the launch and impairing others from launching

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195970

    Hope the CO is understanding??

    I know of one Ido member that was checked out by the “A Team” then pulled over a short distance down the road and cited for transporting water in his duck boat.

    I’m no JR or Red Neck so I won’t mention any names.

    nhamm
    Inactive
    Robbinsdale
    Posts: 7348
    #1195979

    I was casting on Minnetonka couple days ago at a customers home and then I was thinking man, I cast out about 30yds worth of braid, which soaks up quite a bit of water and gets piled on my reel who is to say I may have to let my reel sit out for a few days to let the zeeb spores die off first, or have to unravel it and take a blow dryer to it, or inspect each inch under a microscope before i head to the next body of water, this AIS is so stressful!

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1195983

    Landing nets, cast nets, anchor rope, braided fishing line, drift socks, stringers….It doesn’t matter if they carry AIS, but they COULD.

    Guilty.

    Buzz
    Minneapolis MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1196004

    We are all required to use car seats when we haul kids around. Should I not get a ticket for not having the kid in a car seat because I didn’t get into an accident. Enforcement needs something they can see. If the plug is in, you get a warning or a ticket.

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #1196005

    I haven’t been checked, yet. I’m not sure how I will handle it. Likely it will depend more on the inspector, if I get some attitude from him then maybe he will get some back.

    I do know that EVERY single time on Mille Lacs when the creel survey temps attempt to question me I have the same answer everytime. “Wasn’t fishing, just out riding around.” Which always bring the response…….”why all the rods and tackle?” Which gets the answer of “why, are they illegal?”

    If the AIS inspector seems to know what he’s taking about I might just go along, however, if he recites the DNR corporate BS then he will get a long, long drawn out inspection. Think they would pull all the line on 8 rods and inspect it if we insisted they do it? after all, if they insist I’m carrying (or capable of) AIS I should be able to insist they inspect everything for my own protection.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1196014

    Quote:


    We are all required to use car seats when we haul kids around.


    Because some person sitting on his/her duff in St. Paul knows better then the parents?

    Is this multiple choice??

    Here’s a bunny trial for ya.

    Car seats have to be rated for the weight of the kid. (translated that’s a minimum of three seats for one kid)
    Only good for 5 years. Check your dates if you think you’re going to buy a used one.

    Going to buy one at a garage sale? Better not, you don’t know if it’s been in an accident.

    The people that make these laws survived without a car seat growing up…or maybe they didn’t(?)

    (I’m starting to sound like Desperado! )

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1196019

    Quote:


    We are all required to use car seats when we haul kids around. Should I not get a ticket for not having the kid in a car seat because I didn’t get into an accident. Enforcement needs something they can see. If the plug is in, you get a warning or a ticket.


    Your analogy is flawed.

    It is true that we are required to have our children in car seats. There’s ample evidence to show that using the car seats keeps our kids safe in the event of an accident. What the DNR is doing with this AIS law is like handing out tickets to people that have children for not having their car seat in place… even when the kid isn’t in the car.

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #1196020

    Quote:


    Quote:


    We are all required to use car seats when we haul kids around.


    Because some person sitting on his/her duff in St. Paul knows better then the parents?

    … blah, blah, blah …

    The people that make these laws survived without a car seat growing up…or maybe they didn’t(?)

    (I’m starting to sound like Desperado! )


    the curmudgeons of On-Line Diatribe Fighting Against Ridiculous Tyranny (OLD FART) would like to welcome BK to the ranks

    I expect by Sunday, we’ll see you “running with scissors”

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1196026

    Quote:


    Quote:


    We are all required to use car seats when we haul kids around. Should I not get a ticket for not having the kid in a car seat because I didn’t get into an accident. Enforcement needs something they can see. If the plug is in, you get a warning or a ticket.


    Your analogy is flawed.

    It is true that we are required to have our children in car seats. There’s ample evidence to show that using the car seats keeps our kids safe in the event of an accident. What the DNR is doing with this AIS law is like handing out tickets to people that have children for not having their car seat in place… even when the kid isn’t in the car.


    James, your speeding analogy is flawed also. It is against the law to transport your “BOAT” ais present aside, with the plug in. Driving down the road with the plug “in” is like driving down the road “speeding”…

    Steve Root
    South St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 5623
    #1196027

    My brain is starting to hurt

    desperado
    Posts: 3010
    #1196028

    Quote:


    My brain is starting to hurt


    that’ll happen when you start trying to apply logical analogies (like speeding and car seats) to illogical laws (like transporting with drain plug in)

    Buzz
    Minneapolis MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1196036

    Arrgggg. Yes we all know that ZM will likely be spread to 95-100% of MN lakes. It is just a matter of how soon. We also know that our kids will have sex at an early age, likely try a variety of drugs and drink like fishes. Because this is true, does this mean we quit trying to teach them the practices that might help them to make slightly better choices? I think not. AIS is something mainly spread by man-made objects, boats, docks, lifts, gill nets, water related equipment, etc, do we just give up trying to slow it down until a biological solution can be found? Or try methods to slow it down? Purple loosestrife is a good example, it went unchecked for years. Then after much research a weevil was found that could control it to acceptable levels. I’m for using moderate measures to keep the spreading of ZM to a crawl. Those who profess that the AIS laws are hokum, give license to those who want to employ harsh measures.

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18926
    #1196037

    Quote:


    James, your speeding analogy is flawed also. It is against the law to transport your “BOAT” ais present aside, with the plug in. Driving down the road with the plug “in” is like driving down the road “speeding”…


    I disagree. To be guilty of speeding I must be caught speeding. Apparently to be found guilty of transporting AIS all I need do is show up at a landing with my plug in place at which time I will be assumed to be guilty despite any evidence showing AIS were present.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1196039

    Quote:


    Quote:


    James, your speeding analogy is flawed also. It is against the law to transport your “BOAT” ais present aside, with the plug in. Driving down the road with the plug “in” is like driving down the road “speeding”…


    I disagree. To be guilty of speeding I must be caught speeding. Apparently to be found guilty of transporting AIS all I need do is show up at a landing with my plug in place at which time I will be assumed to be guilty despite any evidence showing AIS were present.


    Again… flawed. The ticket is for leaving the plug in, not transporting ais…. just like the ticket is for speeding, not causing an accident.

    Aaron
    Posts: 245
    #1196046

    If you have that big of an issue remembering to put your plug in, there is an apparatus that you can use if you have a bilge pump. It runs everything through your bilge system and is legal to leave in your boat.

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