1.3 million

With all due respect Jon its not socialism, its called fairness.

It is socilism. And more Americans are buying into it. Sad but true. Obamacare is a fine example. You will lose freedom of choice. The government will tell you what is best for you. Like it or not.

Take the same analogy to jobs. Kids in school will be told what jobs they will be trained for. They will lose the freedom to choose their own occupation. Maybe that is ok. That person who chooses to drop out of hight school to work at McD(aka freedom) will not be allowed to do that. They will be forced into a job or go to prison. (Aka Socilism.)

-J.

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With all due respect Jon its not socialism, its called fairness.

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Well, I guess that makes sense. Hey Mossydan… do you own a boat? Cause if you do… I am going to use it next week. I don’t own a boat so it is only fair that I have what you have….

Ya I own a boat and a bunch of motors and yes if you want to drive here, you can use it and the fish are biting, not as good a few weeks ago, but their biting. I’m always looking for a cheaper way to move my boat around and am considering a hydrogen injection system to make a little competition for the oil industry, but to some that rattles the cage of some establishments, so its called socialism.

Well I’m off to work painting a basement to pay some of the water use taxes in this socialist society, because I may be using something cheaper then oil.

We are already practicing socialism here fellas, we get taxed, which is the government taking from us what we have earned and spreading it to the lower end of society through thousands of programs. I think what some of us are getting at is why should we carry their burden while the CEOs of these companies and stockholders reap all the benefits. Free markets work, but these companies are starting to get too big and the monopolies they create and the rules they abide by are getting skewed through lobbying, so the markets cannot work like they should and we are paying the costs. Socialism, we are in it full force if you ask me.

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With all due respect Jon its not socialism, its called fairness.

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Its called a euphemism.

There is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism. Capitalism inevitably creeps into socialism.

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With all due respect Jon its not socialism, its called fairness.

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Life is not fair period..
Anytime the government is involved it’s X2

With all due respect

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Life is not fair period..
Anytime the government is involved it’s X2

With all due respect

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The words “Government” and “Respect” should never appear in the same post. Just don’t make sense.

As the owner of a very small company (just hired my 5th employee) I will not be told by anyone or the Government what I will pay anyone beyond minimum wage. My starting wage is whatever I can afford at the time. You want more money working for me……….make me more money. Pretty simple really. If you can’t / won’t help me grow and survive I don’t owe you a raise.

My people are told when they are hired, I’m not a babysitter and this isn’t a democracy. I have my money on the line, my families future on the line. Anybody who wants to earn more money just needs to show up ready to work, do their job and be willing to learn. The business will take it from there.

All these wage increases people are talking about because the CEO’s make fat wages and big bonuses is fine except for one minor detail……….small business employee’s 80% of the people in this country. You mess with small business and you will have larger unemployment.

Interesting discussion, carry on!

Your right Pug and that all depends on how much people give and take and plan for the future.

Interesting post Brian, I am part of a small family business as well, 4 employees and a couple subs when we get backed up we throw work too. Our model is exactly yours, you make us money and you will be payed right back. With that mentality though just talking percentages, I am curious of the small business owners how much an owner would feel morally justified to make in relation to his workers. Earn 50% more, 100%, maybe 500%. Where does paying your dues and reaping the benefits of your own hard work start turning into just flatout greed?

Walmart CEO 20.7 million dollars in 2012. Add up all his little friends at the top with him, now look at minimum wage…..

I agree Brian and I would do the same, pay the people who work and put forth the effort to make me money, or they will loose their job, why because their effort and I can’t carry them.

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You want more money working for me……….make me more money. Pretty simple really. If you can’t / won’t help me grow and survive I don’t owe you a raise.

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I am anti-union, but I believe Sam Walton and any subsequent CEO, had help from the little guy, to get where they are now…. By using your analogy, they all should be making more as Walmart grew… I for one, would like to see a chart on that FWIW…no one should have to make their living “buying reduced price stock” in any company

I for one can see where small businesses can’t pay the rate of insurance that it costs now, can you? What I’m talking about is the bigger companies that can afford a little more or set up a program to keep them from paying higher taxes ought to be done. When it all comes down to it the people who can’t afford the present prices on insurance for themselves or their families are stuck in a spot where the state has to take over,,,or bankruptcy, and thats when no one gets paid. I have a friend whos a bankruptcy lawyer and he sees people all the time who have to go through this process. Why not pool what those people can afford and put that twards paying the bill. One thing is forsure it isn’t working the way its set up now. (Why) not get something from everyone who can’t afford the present rates and pool it, (atleast) their giving something, and that my friends is not socialism.

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Interesting post Brian, I am part of a small family business as well, 4 employees and a couple subs when we get backed up we throw work too. Our model is exactly yours, you make us money and you will be paid right back. With that mentality though just talking percentages, I am curious of the small business owners how much an owner would feel morally justified to make in relation to his workers. Earn 50% more, 100%, maybe 500%. Where does paying your dues and reaping the benefits of your own hard work start turning into just flatout greed?

Walmart CEO 20.7 million dollars in 2012. Add up all his little friends at the top with him, now look at minimum wage…..

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You ask an interesting question. If a employee makes $50,000 a year, am I entitled to $100,000? Or $75,000? If my start up risk and reduced wages for say the first 10 years was (pick a number) $300,000 how long before you think I should be able to make that up? If I was a builder before the crash and my family was budgeted on a income of $200,000 and my income dropped to $50,000 after the crash but I still kept 2 people working how soon am I entitled to recoup the lost earnings?

Here is my answer for you, if somebody has a problem with what I make they can stop over and give me a check for the business I started at my risk in 1999. At that point they are free to over-pay any and all employees they like. People seem to think there is absolutely nothing to running and growing a business. They think that owners are getting fat off the backs of their workers. (some are) But here is the bottom line…………anybody and I mean anybody reading this who can borrow some money and has the balls can go into business for themselves.

I know I’m pissing some people off with my attitude here but nobody reading this has put up a dime to help me. Other owners here as well as myself have missed their own payments to keep their employees working and their families fed. Business isn’t turning the key and watching the money come in.

And in case anybody missed it……….there’s a huge difference between talking about small business and fortune 500 business.

OK, only been working since 5:30 this morning……..can I go home and have a beer now?

Heres some more food for thought. Lets say the total of all the Walmart employees and the fast food employees totals 5 million, at lets say $20 a month for all those employess is 100 million a month.

Ok with that said instead of starting just an insurance fund for all those employees, they get a regular insurance company to take care of all the insurance processes. Lets say that for the insurance company to make any money so it won’t be called socialism they charge $5 a month per policy. That’s 25 million a month that the insurance company will profit from. That amount at $5 per policy they have coming to them goes directly to the company and not to cover any costs the insurance company has to pay out, its just a number that’s affordable and goes to the insurance company. The $20 price could be $50 a month per employee but way cheaper then the present price. @ the 5 million membership and @ $50 a month thats 250 million a month. The big question is how come no one is doing it and another big big question is can you safely cover 5 million of those peoples health care costs for $250 million a month. If they can and make a $5 dollar profit per month on each policy, then why isn’t anyone doing it.

The easy answer to your question Mossydan is NO when 1 in 4 people have a heart attack each year. So of your 5 million people a chance of more then 1 million could have a heart attack and that is only one disease.

We are off track here… Walmart is anything but a small business. I don’t think anybody said small business owners are overpaid… but… if you make a Million dollar salary a year plus bonus and you pay 5 guys just above minimum wage to get you that… I would call that greed.

It could be Tom and I don’t disagree with you, I just didn’t know. Well all I really do know is that the moneys got to come from somewhere and yes I do think everyone in the chain of command is too high. Man Its unbelievable to think we can’t take care of 5 million people on 250 million a month or 3 billion a year. Well I’d better get used to a $5 dollar loaf of bread because to me it sounds like its coming.

I have a question for all the experts, you hear the term small business and big business, what size qualifies as a medium size business? How many employees? What gross earnings? Can they be incorperated? Are they listed on a stock exchange? Say a car dealership with 5 stores and a total100 employees. Is that either a “small” or “big ” business? I’m guessing small business is a misnomer for some fairly large and lucrative enterprises.

Haven’t you guys solved all the inequities in the USA yet?

Everyone realizes that you aren’t going to change anyone’s minds or enlighten them, right?

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same story with all the fast food workers. I think they are just looking for a reason to protest, if they get out of a day of work thats good enough for them.

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Second post on subject; after reading this whats the sense to reading more to hear the majority p and moan about slackers with a few that understand the whole perspective. The norm where ever you go. Same premasiss different story. P and moan and always the other guys fault for where one is at in life.
Worst first follow uppost ever in. Y eyes.

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No sense in insults man. I think everyone tries their best to be civil on here and the discussion has been a good one thus far.

Pug no one is trying to change anyone’s mind. To understand the other side, or any side for that matter brings a new perspective on things and whether that tickles your fancy or not, at least their is clarity on the subject.
My intention is not to change laws, mandate more burdensome regs, but offer a change of thought, and maybe have my mind changed at the same time

A small business to me is one where the owner knows all his/her employees by name and most of their family. A medium business, the owner knows most of the employees names, especially their key managers, and they may have more than 1 store. Big business to me, is when the owner/CEO has no idea who his employees are outside his/her key managers and really doesn’t care to know them or anything about them or their family. I am no expert, this is just my opinion. (trying to stay on topic, so I don’t get a tongue lashing)

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The easy answer to your question Mossydan is NO when 1 in 4 people have a heart attack each year. So of your 5 million people a chance of more then 1 million could have a heart attack and that is only one disease.

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I have read the whole thread, and have to comment on this post……

1 in 4 people have a heart attack each year? Whose butt did that statistic get yanked out of? As they say in the town of Garage Logic, that is an asstatisitic.

Just funnin with ya……T

I see it as also a high price problem because the rates for insurance are in my opinion way out of line. Every time the rates go up it prices some people out of buying insurance and the companies that are paying for it now for their employees are going to have to raise their prices to cover their costs over and over. Isn’t their sense in the insurance industry for them to be frugal otherwise everyone involved are going to keep raising their price, expecting the insurance companies to pay. Doesn’t it make sense to offer insurance at a lower price to get more people on board. Its similar to the housing industry where things got so high the bubble burst and the housing market collapsed. Alot of the buying was done by people who couldn’t afford it but high prices have slowed growth down in other commercial areas too. It just seems something has to be done so more people can get on board and share in the expense and where prices level out and stay that way for awhile so things stabilize. Well enough of the insurance lingo for now for me.

I see some of the things that Walmart workers and the Micky’d’s croud are probably complaining about as they are saying, if you want us to stay here with our experience and ability to run the restaurant then I’m worth another buck or two an hour. There is a line that the owner can’t cross and still make a decent living and I would also think the same, but for the people who have been there for 5 too 10 years, know their jobs well and have something to offer, those companies should be willing to pay a little more. Maybe its a low demand job but those people still have the skills to make those places run better. In other small businesses where the economy drives their prices more so then Micky’d’s giving raises is more determined by whats going to be coming down the road a year or even two from now. Am I going to be as busy then as I am now, which determines raises and will I be able to cover those raises then If I give them now, or lay off some people. There is a line that can’t be crossed by the employees too realizing that if they want to keep their jobs maybe a year from now, then the company can’t give a raise. In smaller companies where its going to be continous growth then maybe a raise in store, the companies where growth is going to be up and down depending on the economy, then its also up to employees weather they want their jobs on the line. Its not all cut and dry.

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A small business to me is one where the owner knows all his/her employees by name and most of their family. A medium business, the owner knows most of the employees names, especially their key managers, and they may have more than 1 store. Big business to me, is when the owner/CEO has no idea who his employees are outside his/her key managers and really doesn’t care to know them or anything about them or their family. I am no expert, this is just my opinion. (trying to stay on topic, so I don’t get a tongue lashing)

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That makes perfectly good science. But, in the way business are catagorized both in media and in financial circle there is only “small” and “big”. I bet alot of businesses that we would call large or big are accually classified as small. Look into some of the small business loans that are issued, some are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most are not that large, but some are.

First off let me say I am a union electrician for 25+ yrs. I went to 2yrs of day school and 4 yrs of night school to get where I am today. Do I make a good living? Yes. But thats because of the choices I’ve made.

Don’t let the fact that some people have made bad choices dictate their wage. If someone wants to work at Walmart for $7 its their CHOICE and not Walmarts fault for them not making enough.
I’m tired of hearing I make to much. My answer is. Based on what? Just because I make more than you?
Everyone who applies for a job goes into it knowing roughly how much the $/hr are going to be. That’s your choice.

I understand people lose good paying jobs due to the economy and have to go back to school to get different ones. Has happened to some friends of mine. But they made a choice to go back to school or look for jobs that don’t pay $7/hr.
Look people companies are looking to make a profit and if paying you or someone else minimum wage is what does it DONT WORK FOR THEM. It’s your choice.
It seems like this country wants everyone to be “warm and fuzzy” but no one wants to be accountable for their choices.
I think everyone would agree that an educated person makes more money than an uneducated one. So there your choice go to school or don’t

Just for the record. I don’t like Walmart.

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Look people, companies are looking to make a profit and if paying you or someone else minimum wage is what does it DONT WORK FOR THEM. It’s your choice.

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America…Isn’t it GREAT!?

Most of us here practice CPR, protect our deerheards from over harvest, birds, game etc. Etc. Its a resource that we all enjoy and feel others should have just of a chance at it as the next guy. And let’s face it, some are really good at it. They could come home with a limit of everything some days, but they don’t. Some just want to set up a chair on shore and toss out a bobber and not put much effort into it but enjoy what they can. Yet when it comes to financial resources its the opposite. These huge companies are wiping “the lakes” out so to speak, no better than a commercial fisherman or tribe or any other entity who comes in and cleans house. And they expect the taxpayers to restock it year after year after year. Why do we find these people as entrepenuers and people to respect BC they made it, yet we find those that bring home a limit of crappies all 12-15″ as gluttens?

Perfectly within the law, but we all know its not for the better. I could find a hundred posts on this on the net that reiterates that point.

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The easy answer to your question Mossydan is NO when 1 in 4 people have a heart attack each year. So of your 5 million people a chance of more then 1 million could have a heart attack and that is only one disease.

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I have read the whole thread, and have to comment on this post……

1 in 4 people have a heart attack each year? Whose butt did that statistic get yanked out of? As they say in the town of Garage Logic, that is an asstatisitic.

Just funnin with ya……T

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The National Heart Institute that’s who`s butt it came out of. Google heart attack percentages in the USA.