You either have to agree that killing pregnant does is perfectly fine and should be allowed, or be a hypocrite.
Minnesota=the new Pennsylvania.
May 21, 2013 at 1:18 pm
#1172337
Antler Point Restriction Bill Passes!!!
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May 21, 2013 at 1:22 pm #1172339
Yes, those two states are somewhat similar at least. One can argue WI has more “quality” deer land than Mn also. If I were to draw a line through Mn & WI basically east to west using Minneapolis to Eau Claire as the northern borders to “good” deer country, look how many more square miles WI has vs MN south of that line.
I do not think APR has much if any benefit north of this line. Especially in NE MN that is dominated by large tracts of woods. Hunting deer in this country is super hard and to force a hunter into deciding how many points a buck has would be beyond challenging. One could argue NW MN could benefit as you see more open country and farm ground.
Deer hunting is changing, like it or not. It’s more publicized than ever. There is no doubt financial motivation for some to create a trophy zone. Not just the legislatures. Land owners too. It’s not often you hear about non-residents leasing land to hunt deer in Mn. I hear this for every state around us all the time and every once in a while down in SE MN. Look at the price of land over in Buffalo County WI. $4k per acre for hunting land!! Tell me years of QDM and big bucks don’t play a role in this.
Personally, I just want to see a strong, healthy herd. I don’t know if APR is the answer, but I’m sure willing to see how the herd evolves over the next 10 years.
May 21, 2013 at 1:25 pm #1172341Quote:
You either have to agree that killing pregnant does is perfectly fine and should be allowed, or be a hypocrite.
Minnesota=the new Pennsylvania.
What?? This may be the best I’ve read so far.
May 21, 2013 at 1:26 pm #11723422 things you should never vote for – More regulation, or more taxes.
May 21, 2013 at 1:29 pm #1172343Quote:
…snip…
I personally support it because I think a more mature deer herd is a healthier deer herd. Yearling deer are dumb anyone who argues that point has spent little time in the woods in my opinion.
…snip…
Having trouble following your logic here. You say a mature herd is a healthier herd therefore we should shoot the mature deer (the supposedly healthy ones) and leave the young ones (the supposedly unhealthy ones) leaving a herd full of immature deer. Isn’t that exactly opposite of what you would want if your premise that young deer are unhealthy were true?
I also wonder about evolution and the process of natural selection. This is the theory that those individuals within a species that are most well adapted to their environment will be successful breeders and will pass on their traits to their offspring. Under APR I couldn’t think of a more well adapted deer than a 10 year old 4 to 6 point buck. He’s virtually guaranteed a very long and healthy life by act of law. He’ll spin off herds of small antlered offspring for years and years while his big antlered brethren are slaughtered unhindered.
May 21, 2013 at 1:34 pm #1172345Quote:
2 things you should never vote for – More regulation, or more taxes.
I get this, but don’t lose site of the fact we are humans and greedy by nature. If it were not for guys like Teddy Roosevelt, none of us would be hunters now days. Hunting and fishing are hobbies. If .05% of the hunters who buy tags in Mn utilize the venison as the primary source of food for their families I’d be surprised. My gut says the folks who live on venison aren’t buying tags and hunt year round.
May 21, 2013 at 2:01 pm #1172348Quote:
Quote:
You either have to agree that killing pregnant does is perfectly fine and should be allowed, or be a hypocrite.
Minnesota=the new Pennsylvania.
What?? This may be the best I’ve read so far.
Its not very funny when you consider how few deer there are near my cabin in NW Wi yet they continue to hand out doe tags.
May 21, 2013 at 2:07 pm #1172352I don’t recall saying young deer are unhealthy. The health of a deer herd is based on many, many factors. I’m sorry if I my logic doesn’t match with yours. I’m really more in the middle than what I’ve typed will lead you to believe apprently. I’m trusting in the biologist that this will help the overall herd.
May 21, 2013 at 2:11 pm #1172354When the DNR manages on such large scale units, you will have pockets of virtually no deer. I like how SD manages by county. Even then it’s challenging.
May 21, 2013 at 2:20 pm #1172356Quote:
Guys. This is FORD V CHEVY. Nobody will ever win the argument. It’s one mans way of thinking vrs. another’s. With that said, most guys don’t like being told what to do.
Doesn’t matter which brand YOU prefer … the Ford lobby has convinced the MN legislature that driving Fords is in the best interest of the public.
You know Fords are safer on the road, get better mileage, have cleaner emissions, etc, etc; well at least according to the Ford lobby.
Anyhow the MN legislature has been convinced (i.e. hoodwinked by the lobbists); which is all that really matters since the geniuses in St Paul know best for us anyway and after all it IS their job to run every little detail of our lives.Soooooo …
Look for MN to soon pass a law stating that from Mid Sept through End of Dec, ONLY FORDS are allowed to be driven on public roadways !
May 21, 2013 at 2:25 pm #1172357Quote:
If .05% of the hunters who buy tags in Mn utilize the venison as the primary source of food for their families I’d be surprised. My gut says the folks who live on venison aren’t buying tags and hunt year round.
What an asinine statement.
May 21, 2013 at 2:29 pm #1172359Quote:
Quote:
If .05% of the hunters who buy tags in Mn utilize the venison as the primary source of food for their families I’d be surprised. My gut says the folks who live on venison aren’t buying tags and hunt year round.
What an asinine statement.
I hope you were kidding? That statement is probably better than 90% accurate.
May 21, 2013 at 2:32 pm #1172360Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If .05% of the hunters who buy tags in Mn utilize the venison as the primary source of food for their families I’d be surprised. My gut says the folks who live on venison aren’t buying tags and hunt year round.
What an asinine statement.
Are you kidding? That statement is probably better than 90% accurate.
According to a recent poll, five out of every four deer hunters happen to agree with that statement.
May 21, 2013 at 2:34 pm #1172361Quote:
…snip…
I’m sorry if I my logic doesn’t match with yours.…snip…
It’s not my logic, it’s simply logic.
These two sentences are contradictory.
“I think a more mature deer herd is a healthier deer herd.”
“I personally support APR because it promotes a healthier deer herd.”
APR in fact promotes shooting mature deer (the ones making the herd healthier in your opinion).
You might want to rethink your premise that a mature herd is healthier or you might want to rethink your support of APR. That is if you’re at all worried about being consistent.
May 21, 2013 at 2:37 pm #1172362Quote:
Doesn’t matter which brand YOU prefer … the Ford lobby has convinced the MN legislature that driving Fords is in the best interest of the public.
You know Fords are safer on the road, get better mileage, have cleaner emissions, etc, etc; well at least according to the Ford lobby.
Anyhow the MN legislature has been convinced (i.e. hoodwinked by the lobbists); which is all that really matters since the geniuses in St Paul know best for us anyway and after all it IS their job to run every little detail of our lives.Soooooo …
Look for MN to soon pass a law stating that from Mid Sept through End of Dec, ONLY FORDS are allowed to be driven on public roadways !
Funny how the legislature can cause so much damage in just the 3 months they are in session.
To top it all off, they think they need a giant pay raise for their 3 months of “public service”.
May 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm #1172363Curious what % of Mn deer hunters do you think are primarily feeding their families on venison they harvest each fall?
May 21, 2013 at 2:41 pm #1172366Quote:
Curious what % of Mn deer hunters do you think are primarily feeding their families on venison they harvest each fall?
FIVE Out of Every FOUR
but hey, at least no one is claiming that deer hunters are good with fractions
May 21, 2013 at 2:48 pm #1172368Quote:
Funny how the legislature can cause so much damage in just the 3 months they are in session.
To top it all off, they think they need a giant pay raise for their 3 months of “public service”.
Never underestimate the proficiency of a Governmental entity to screw things up … or their ability to extract exhorbitant amounts of the citizenry’s wealth in the process.
May 21, 2013 at 2:49 pm #1172370What if I live in a small house that would only fit a fork horn mount!?!?!?!?!?! Now I cant have a mount if I hunt in APR territory? That’s BS.
May 21, 2013 at 2:52 pm #1172372Quote:
What if I live in a small house that would only fit a fork horn mount!?!?!?!?!?! Now I cant have a mount if I hunt in APR territory? That’s BS.
No worries, we’ll fund an addition to your house … but only if you agree to have it named “The PEOPLE’s Trophy Room”
Should be a feel-good deal for the State of MN … as I’m sure it will hold/contain more trophies than the People’s Stadium does
May 21, 2013 at 2:58 pm #1172374Quote:
You might want to rethink your premise that a mature herd is healthier or you might want to rethink your support of APR. That is if you’re at all worried about being consistent.
For the record, I’m not asking to change your opinion on APR simply stating mine. Which apparently is wrong…
Consistently targeting the youngest cross section of a species seems like a bad idea to me. That’s all I can say. 
May 21, 2013 at 3:13 pm #1172378Quote:
For the record, I’m not asking to change your opinion on APR simply stating mine.
And i’m just asking you to revisit your premises so you can be sure they’re based on sound logic rather than BS. The problem with folks of your “opinion” is that they’ve successfully crammed it down the throats of everyone in Zone 3 whether they like it or not via the supreme force of government.
Quote:
Consistently targeting the youngest cross section of a species seems like a bad idea to me. That’s all I can say.
Who do you know that consistently targets young deer? Are you saying there are a large number of hunters out that that would pass on trophy antlers because they’re targeting yearlings? I don’t believe it. I believe people take which ever deer makes the mistake of walking by. The deer making the fewest mistakes would survive to breed. Do you think that’s bad for the herd? Or do you think its better for the herd to only shoot the mature deer with the biggest antlers and leave the small antlered deer to reproduce?
May 21, 2013 at 3:32 pm #1172382Quote:
Who do you know that consistently targets young deer?
The “if it’s brown it’s down crowd”. In my experience the 1.5 year old deer make the most mistakes. Proven by the fact the average deer shot in Mn is 1.5 years old.
Quote:
Are you saying there are a large number of hunters out that that would pass on trophy antlers because they’re targeting yearlings?
No not at all. I think 80% of MN deer hunters go to shoot the first deer that walks by. Typically this will be your young deer who are not wise to the world just yet.
Quote:
Do you think that’s bad for the herd?
Yes because they are targeting one cross section of the herd more than any other, deliberately or not.
The fact is, the majority of hunters in Zone 3 wanted this rule implemented. They got organized along with the DNR went to bat and convinced the legislative body to give it a whirl. Seems like the democratic way to me.
May 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm #1172385
I’m all for MOB RULE … let’s implement it on a 130,000 acre body of water about 200 miles northwest of Zone 3May 21, 2013 at 3:48 pm #1172388Yes! The best part of democracy is legally and forcefully imposing your opinions and beliefs on others, especially if the others are in the minority.
May 21, 2013 at 3:49 pm #1172389Quote:
I’m all for MOB RULE … let’s implement it on a 130,000 acre body of water about 200 miles northwest of Zone 3
Does that mean I can finally mount the .50 cal on my Lund? I AM IN!!!
May 21, 2013 at 3:54 pm #1172390I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I have to make an observation.
If there were no humans at all in Minnesota, and all of the original predators were around (Wolves, Coyotes, Grizzly and Black Bears, Cougars) exactly which part of the deer population do you think they would be targeting?
They’d go after the young, the sick, and the weak. They sure wouldn’t target mature bucks. Does that mean that the deer population would be unhealthy because there aren’t any humans around to pass on stupid young deer?
I think this issue is way, way more complex that “Us versus Them”, and I also doubt anybody really has the answers yet.
Rootski
May 21, 2013 at 3:54 pm #1172391Ben,
In my past, I was the certified .50 cal man for our gun crew. It would be an honor to serve with you.
May 21, 2013 at 4:00 pm #1172397Finally! A political thread I could care less about.
Thank God there are no politics in fishing.
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