Not so sure here about tar sands

Thier proposing an operation extracting oil from the tar sands that are in N.E. Iowa and S.W. Wisconsin, not sure if the sands run into the Minnesota area. I just read about a half hours worth of reading how it may pollute the local waters if fracking is allowed to take place in Allamakee county and into S.W. Wisconsin.

I did find out it takes about 3 barrels of surface or ground water to get one barrel of the tar sands crude. Heres the concern I’ve got from reading the information I did. Where there are refineries and drilling explorations going on some of the water thats used in fracking comes back to the surface. Now heres where it gets serious. The places where these operations are running have huge huge containment ponds and most are the size of lakes, some are the size of 100 acres and more. Where the problem lies is the containment ponds leak through the bottom mixing with the exhisting ground water and the dams leak and that water mixes with the surface water.

Heres my beef,,,what happens to all the 100’s of miles of trout water in N.E. Iowa and S.W Wisconsin when the leaking starts to happen from these containment ponds. The containment ponds are part of the fracking operation and will be right there on site. The big question is whats it going to do to the ground water in that area, underground and surface. Allamakee county right now has a 16 month moritorium on any fracking so everything has a chance to surface before anythings allowed.

If most of these containment ponds leak, and from what the article says most of them do, whats going to happen to the quality of water in the mississippi river and all the trout streams in Wisconsin and Minnesota and Iowa. This is something that needs everybodys attention right now.

From whats happened in South Dakota and the containment ponds there it isn’t good. This subject is one that everyone needs to read up on. Remember it takes 3 barrels of local water to get one barrel of oil.

Drilling in ND requires 150K gallons per well, fracking over the life of the well can go up 6 million gallons, Ethanol production is also 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gal of ethanol.
Our energy use consumes a lot of water.

Forgot to add that thousands of ducks and waterfowl land on these containment ponds and alot of them don’t make it off these ponds because thier so polluted. One of the guys that works at one of these sites was interviewed and they ask him, what do they do with the ducks, he said they just bury them in the dams and dikes that surround these containments.

only can hope we do it right hard to beat the oil industry.

From what the article said there is no way to do it right, you just have to put up with the pollution.

have to get oil some where or mybe just dont use are boats and cars

Dan
I am interested in your environmental concern regarding the Driftless area of NE Iowa and SE Minnesota and SW Wisc.
I have fished the trout streams in the area for years.
I’ve seen comments regarding the mining of frack sand in the area but never heard of extraction of tar sands oil from the area.
Could you share the link for the article your referencing?

Hello blue wing
I live in allamakee co.pretty certain it’s the fracking sand proposal
Up by new albin that’s being referred to here.last I heard it was defeated
How’s the fishing on clear lake these days
Kp

Ed, I searched fracking of tar sands in N.E. Iowa on Bing. It brought up several links and the moritorium that Allamakee county passed recently, it was a 16 or 18 month stay until the locals could find out more. I heard about this a few months back on local news here in town. In Clayton county they do mine fracking sands but Allamakee county is about fracking for oil and from what I heard a few months ago the deposit goes from NE Iowa into SW Wisconsin. Not sure about all the P’s and Q’s but thats basically whats been said. Search fracking for oil sands or deposits in N.E. Iowa, on Bing, thats the first place Id search and where I went to. Let me know what you see.

Drill baby drill is the mantra! The phrase was coined by a nut case but it transcends party lines. Its about money as you know. The big Corp will have their way. The pipeline from the south is being constructed and it will change our landscape and oil will not be the what we all desire in the future . Communities have set moratoriums on drilling or fracking but are being sued by big Corp claiming the power over us. Guess where this will fall.

The public is so intertwine in their own problems or chasing the dream this is nowhere near on the radar of knowing, caring or cares about what happens next. Facts go out the window if it does not pertain to us at the moment.

Mossy your trying I love and respect that, sadly we are so divided to such an extreme we all are screwed.

Pessimistic? Understatement!!!!!!

Water means nothing to those that want money as they want to deplete that water to control it. It is happening as we speak!

Quote:

---

Drill baby drill is the mantra! The phrase was coined by a nut case but it transcends party lines. Its about money as you know. The big Corp will have their way. The pipeline from the south is being constructed and it will change our landscape and oil will not be the what we all desire in the future . Communities have set moratoriums on drilling or fracking but are being sued by big Corp claiming the power over us. Guess where this will fall.

The public is so intertwine in their own problems or chasing the dream this is nowhere near on the radar of knowing, caring or cares about what happens next. Facts go out the window if it does not pertain to us at the moment.

Mossy your trying I love and respect that, sadly we are so divided to such an extreme we all are screwed.

Pessimistic? Understatement!!!!!!

Water means nothing to those that want money as they want to deplete that water to control it. It is happening as we speak!

---

What happens next people??

Curtis I’ve known what big corporations have and will do since the Viet-Nam war. They will do anything possible if it means a buck for them and thier shareholders.

I just came back from searching for the link where it said they were going to frack for tar sands in Allamakee county and all I could find was the fracking sands links. It could be I read it wrong and mistook what the link said because I’m so against it because of what it has done to enviroments in other states and countries. I could have completely misunderstood what I thought the link said. But I’m still searching for it and if I find it I will post what I find.. I usually don’t make mistakes like that.

Quote:

---

What happens next people??

---

We stop relying on crude oil ?

Ed, I just spent the last 2 1/2 hrs searching for the information on oil sands and oil shale and all I could come up with was silica fracking sands. I must have read it wrong and thought it said something it didn’t.

I couldn’t find the links where the refineries are being built in South Dakota either where the large ponds (lakes) that are very polluted were either, where all the ducks and other water fowl died and were buried in the dikes. If I refind any of this information I’ll message you or post it here. Sometimes unfortunately the eyes and the mind sees two different things.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

What happens next people??

---

We stop relying on crude oil ?

---

Funny your avitar is an oil burning machine.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

What happens next people??

---

We stop relying on crude oil ?

---

I put a question put forward. The reason to put a question like this I ask why?

Snarky palin like response I expect but this question is deeper than that.

Quote:

---

Curtis I’ve known what big corporations have and will do since the Viet-Nam war. They will do anything possible if it means a buck for them and thier shareholders.

I just came back from searching for the link where it said they were going to frack for tar sands in Allamakee county and all I could find was the fracking sands links. It could be I read it wrong and mistook what the link said because I’m so against it because of what it has done to enviroments in other states and countries. I could have completely misunderstood what I thought the link said. But I’m still searching for it and if I find it I will post what I find.. I usually don’t make mistakes like that.

---

Sorry Mossy, drilling, fracking or dredging for sands or even blowing mountain tops through shale takes copious amounts of water.

Expanding the subject is relevant.

Maybe we just let them drill in ANWAR as well as shallow water oil rigs in the gulf. Gasoline right now is the cheapest/most efficient form of energy we have. Until there is a VIABLE alternative man will continue to extract oil from the earth.

Ya I know it does Curtis, It takes alot of water and it has to come from somewhere. I have nothing wrong with using billions of gallons of water,,,as long as it isn’t being polluted to the point where it gets into peoples wells and into aquafers that fill peoples wells.

It seems like I got overly excited about hearing the word fracking and it also seems that I mentally linked fracking tar sands to N.E. Iowa and S.W. Wisconsin, it was my Mistake. All I could think of is the springs and pristiene rivers being polluted with a glazing of oil residue floating on top of them. What does need the attention is these containment ponds or small lakes that hold the water from these fracking operations. They basicially heat the water to a very hot temperature and pump it into the ground to loosen and dissolve the bitumen from the area and then pump it back up to the surface. One of the byproducts is a very polluted water. Can it ever be cleaned or can it just evaporate and the residue thats left, then cleaned up, I don’t know. N.E. Iowa is a pristiene area and its equal is like buffalo county in Wisconsin, our 4 most N.E. counties are like that. Because of alot of very fond memories of that area I hit the panic button. I’m going to look and see if my pc kept my past search histories and see what I come up with that formed my original thoughts. I think I’ve just learned to write down links.

I did read a week or so ago that there its a venture in North Dakota involving a Tribal Community to bulls a new Refinery in central N.D.

I say great as long as all Laws are equal for everyone. No special rules and all environmental laws & regulations must be followed.

I’ll post the link later to their website.

Since the BIG discussion here is water and oil,

Does anybody have a link stating how much water it takes to REFINE a GALLON of GASOLINE?

We know or have heard it takes 3 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol, what about gasoline?

So “using” water ruins it?

I drink water, turn it into urine, flush it down the toilet, it gets filtered through the mother earth and y’all drink it again.

How much water does your outboard motor “use”?

Quote:

---

We know or have heard it takes 3 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol, what about gasoline?

---

Water use for gas

This number seems high to me, however, I’ve never worked in that industry.

I found “2 to 2.5 gallons of water per gallon of gasoline.”

Renuable Fuels Asss.

Of course, this is a “association” for big oil, big gas, so it is inherently evil. Oh wait, it’s a “voice” for ethanol. They must be angels.

Well, it’s on the internet.

Quote:

---

I did read a week or so ago that there its a venture in North Dakota involving a Tribal Community to bulls a new Refinery in central N.D.

I say great as long as all Laws are equal for everyone. No special rules and all environmental laws & regulations must be followed.

I’ll post the link later to their website.

---

Article about ND Refinery proposal

Webpage for Refinery

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

We know or have heard it takes 3 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol, what about gasoline?

---

Water use for gas

This number seems high to me, however, I’ve never worked in that industry.

---

To save time from going to the link: Answer
This question can be answered in three ways. It takes 1851 gallons of water to refine a barrel of crude oil. One barrel of crude oil produces 19 gallons of gasoline and 10 gallons of diesel fuel, in this respect it takes 97 gallons of water to produce a gallon of gasoline. If you combine gasoline and diesel, it takes 63 gallons of water to produce a gallon of “fuel.” A total of 42 gallons of petroleum products are produced from a barrel of crude oil, in this respect it takes 44 gallons of water to produce each gallon.

That’s quite a bit of water, much more than the other fuels!

Quote:

---

Well, it’s on the internet.

---

AND … computers do not lie

Quote:

---

Ed, I searched fracking of tar sands in N.E. Iowa on Bing. It brought up several links and the moritorium that Allamakee county passed recently, it was a 16 or 18 month stay until the locals could find out more. I heard about this a few months back on local news here in town.

---

I think people are getting very, very confused here.

You do not “frac” tar sands. Tar sands are mined either underground or in open pits.

Fracing is hydraulaic fracturing and it done to release natural gas deep underground so it can be recovered. While it is sometimes done in areas near tar sands deposits, it has nothing specificially to do with mining tar sands.

Frac sand mining is mining a specific type of sand that is used in the fracing process. Frac sand and tar sands are two totally different things.

While there are small deposits of tar sands and/or oil shale in many places in MN, WI, etc, it will very likely never be cost-justifiable to mine then. The deposits are small relative to areas in ND or Alberta, and the land they sit under has much greater relative value.

Grouse