Quote:
Who should we be madder at ???
About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies.
Are you talking about the corporations that pay taxes and pay people who then pay taxes on their incomes? I think I’ll choose to be madder at the people receiving the money and not paying any in.
I remember watching a news story a couple years ago about people using EBTs to get tatoos. 
Quote:
Quote:
Who should we be madder at ???
About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies.
Are you talking about the corporations that pay taxes and pay people who then pay taxes on their incomes? I think I’ll choose to be madder at the people receiving the money and not paying any in.
I remember watching a news story a couple years ago about people using EBTs to get tatoos.
It is a viscious circle….But your OK with a rich guy robbing you at a rate of 50% more, as opposed to a poor one ???? 
You wouldn’t like Robin Hood at all 
(As for the Tattoo comment, that is illegal) 
Quote:
I find it hard to believe that people are targeting and demonizing the poor. I can only imagine that people were on assistance prior to the economic collapse. Isn’t this mess a result of corporate greed and not assistance programs abuse? Fact is any great nation takes care of its own, welfare was started by the Romans. We cannot use our own successes as a benchmark to alienate others that either lost opportunity during the collapse or have none as a result.
No, this mess is not a result of corporate greed. Corporations have always tried to make money, as much as they can. This mess was caused by govt overreach. The govt forced banks to make loans, they took the risk off the bank’s balance sheets and onto the housing agencies and now they complain because the banks made a ton of risk free loans that they otherwise would not have.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Who should we be madder at ???
About $59 billion is spent on traditional social welfare programs. $92 billion is spent on corporate subsidies.
Are you talking about the corporations that pay taxes and pay people who then pay taxes on their incomes? I think I’ll choose to be madder at the people receiving the money and not paying any in.
I remember watching a news story a couple years ago about people using EBTs to get tatoos.
It is a viscious circle….But your OK with a rich guy robbing you at a rate of 50% more, as opposed to a poor one ????
(As for the Tattoo comment, that is illegal)
Of this, so called, corporate welfare, which of it are you against?
Do you want to reward oil exploration or have $6 at the pump?
Do you want to subsidize inefficient ethanol or have cheaper food?
Left wing extremists use corporate welfare because it sounds so bad. But they fully support it when it is for their pet projects. So instead of using a generic phrase that is meaningless, please specifically say what you are for or against. From your prior posts, I assume you like market based, non-speculator influence, non-govt inventive $6 gas prices. Correct? Or do you just know nothing about economics?
oh yes, the only one’s getting it are gas and food I don’t want to give the poor guy a dime anymore than I want to give the rich guy a quarter. I am against all forms of welfare, for those who don’t truely “need it” put simply 
know it all righty… 
OK, we’re quickly sinking into this territory
why, because of me and Dave ??? 
big G,
Corporations are one rich guy making tons of money off of subsidies? I work for a publicly traded corporation that pays me and thousands of people. I then pay taxes on that income and do my part to stimulate the economy. The corporation also makes money for its shareholders. Do the subsidies keep them from moving oversees and paying someone half as much as the pay me?
There are people who need the assistance and in both systems there is abuse. The question was which makes me madder? Again, I choose the abusers who take and don’t contribute anything.
That’s OK ! I am equally angry/upset at anyone who steals from me… maybe a little “more angry” at those who would steal at 1 and 1/2 times the rate of others and then give me 1/4 of it back and tell me how great they are…
Quote:
why, because of me and Dave ???
Should be “Why, because of Dave and I???”
FTW. 
I have a “me” complex…
Quote:
Quote:
why, because of me and Dave ???
Should be “Why, because of Dave and I???”
FTW.
actually, it should be
“Why? Because of Dave and me?”
If the question is COULD you live entirely off of government and private welfare-type programs, the answer is “yes”. If you’re motivated enough to make it your full time job, it is certainly possible. And by “motivated” I mean by any factor. Maybe it’s lazyness, maybe it’s greed, or maybe it’s fear that your children will go hungry, get sick, or be homeless.
My wife and I are supporters of a charity in St. Paul called Joseph’s Coat. Joseph’s Coat operates a free store on 7th Street in St. Paul and provides free clothing and household goods to those in need.
What I’ve leared through helping this charity is that the poor are, in about 90% of the cases NOT who I thought they were. I was like many of you guys, thinking that most people who are on welfare, food stamps, etc were lazy Welfare Queens who had made a career out of having babies and milking the system at every turn so they could stay home and watch Judge Judy, smoke cigs, and eat chips and fast food all day.
What the people at Joseph’s Coat opened my eyes to is that most of the poor are:
A. Poor because of some dramatic life change that was either partially or totally out of their control. For example, a woman with 3 kids whose boyfriend suddenly decideds he doesn’t want to play house anymore and abandons them. She still has her job, but suddenly she’s alone AND still has 3 mouths to feed and provide clothing and shelter for.
Another common example during the great recession was people who were relatively well off, but the loss of 1 or more incomes found them in desperate straights when the economy kept gettting worse. Some of it may have been down to bad choices, but there was also a bad luck factor involved and don’t fool yourselves my brothers, it could happen to any of us. It only takes a couple of bad cards in the hand your dealt.
B. Working, but not working enough or being paid enough to make ends meet. The majority of the shoppers at Josheph’s Coat are working or have household members who are working, but simply cannot make enough to keep themselves above water financially.
C. Cannot sustain themselves because of substance abuse and/or menatal illness. There are virtually no programs to provide any significant help for these people relative to the huge need.
I understand that it’s upsetting, but I try to be more compassionate these days because of what I understand now: Most people do NOT want government assistance. Sure, there are Welfare Queens and Kings out there, but in most cases it’s legitimate need.
BTW, if any of you out there have a basement or garage full of clothing and household goods waiting for you to give up enough fishing time to “get around to having a garage sale”, please get in touch! I can take all that off your hands AND I even come and pick it up AND give you a great tax deduction.
We especially need good children’s clothes, all manner of baby care items, and good sturdy men’s and women’s work clothing. I have 10 or more working men per week that come in needing a decent pair of boots!
Can you help? Please get in touch via PM.
Grouse
Quote:
Now…I understand that they likely don’t get to go fishing from a boat, fly to Cabo to fish, eat out at a high end steak place, drink good booze, etc
Sack of White Castle…check.
40 of OE stolen from Super America…check.
Bus ride to channel at Lord Fletchers…check.
Pimpin ain’t easy…
Grouse I hear what you’re saying and absolutely agree that not everyone on welfare is taking advantage. However I am farther down the spectrum than you. I want to help the helpless but I don’t want to help the clueless. To the woman who’s boyfriend left her, why would you have 3 kids with a guy like that. To the family that can’t afford their house – you made that choice to buy that house needing both your incomes knowing that you could lose your job. I don’t think life deals you cards, I think you make choices and have live by those choices.
I did an appraisal for a “non profit” (don’t get me started on that) that ran almost free rentals for needy people and I can’t tell you how many I would see sitting at home watching thier TV that was bigger than mine or hacking on a computer that was newer than mine.
To the OP about EBT cards – My aunt was terminally ill and on EBT. She had her neighbor picking up her mail while she was in the hospital and he was using her EBT card. When my aunt passed my mother being the ideal citizen she is – called to the EBT office to cancel the card (offering to send in a copy of the death certificate) and notify them that the neighbor was using it. Think about that, all the things she has going on dealing with her sister’s death and she goes out of her way to call.
She was told that they do not cancel the program unless they see a obituary. My aunt did not have an obituary so the card keeps going to the neighbor (who I’m sure has his own EBT card already).
Quote:
actually, it should be
“Why? Because of Dave and me?”
You are correct. DaveB needs a grammar lesson 
Quote:
I guess I am wondering – if you did not work, can you actually live and not have to pay for anything?
Last time I looked at it “on average” it was about $36K for a family of four. Two minimum wage jobs (paying taxes) don’t come close, let alone day care. That was in Mn…the land of 10,000 gifts.
I have friends layed off who won’t take jobs because they make more thru unemployment, which does have an end date of course.
If you want to get into it, think about all the trade jobs that are seasonal in our area where the folks collect unemployment during the off season, yet make a darn good wage while working.
my grammar would impart any lesson via the business end of a wooden spoon
We also have to consider the ramifications of too many people on assistance and how that can take our whole ship down. Oh wait. Its already happening.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
