Got plug?

  • Buzz
    Minneapolis MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1092329

    The dilemma is that drain plugs, water, vegetation has to been seen as high risk. While we know that under many circumstances it might be rain water, water from non-infested lakes, plant material that isn’t a AIS. How do you differentiate? It isn’t practical to have everything tested. So, it is assumed to be a violation.

    The easy way around this, is to hand pick vegetation and clean of mud, pull the plug and drain all the water.

    Guilty until proven innocent is a straw dog argument. If the law says pull the plug, and you don’t you’re in violation. If it says no plant material or water and you have some, you’re in violation. How can this be debated?

    A straw dog is an idea, or plan, usually set up to be knocked down. It’s the dangerous proposition of presenting one mediocre idea, so that the listener will choose the better idea which follows.
    It is also called a straw man. A straw man argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. To “set up a straw man” or “set up a straw-man argument” is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact a misleading fallacy, because the opponent’s actual argument has not been refuted. The problem is that you view the opposition from a very narrow, flawed perspective, and do not deal with the actual issues.

    (This is something you frequently see politicians do–one that makes you know that no matter what they’re arguing, they are not even mentioning their actual agenda.)

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1092331

    ***So, it is assumed to be a violation.***

    “If the law says pull the plug, and you don’t you’re in violation. If it says no plant material or water and you have some, you’re in violation. How can this be debated?

    Stop changing the issue.

    The debate isn’t what the law is. We all know that. What’s being debated is pulling the plug when we are assumed guilty.

    100% of those ticketed may not have been guilty of transporting AIS. The fact is we don’t know who was or wasn’t. The only thing that % tells us is how many are following the law, not transporting AIS.

    When I become King, all politicians are going to be required to be tested for HIV…no we can’t afford that, they won’t be able to have sex because ONE politician has spread it. I’ll just assume they all have it.

    Guilty until proven innocent.

    Denny O
    Central IOWA
    Posts: 5827
    #1092336

    [quoteWhen I become King, all politicians are going to be required to be tested for HIV…no we can’t afford that, they won’t be able to have sex because ONE politician has spread it. I’ll just assume they all have it.


    Brian you seem to forget he was not having sex with that girl. Hummm

    mike_leclaire
    Grand Rapids, MN
    Posts: 412
    #1092342

    I agree with both sides, I do agree with the only real way to stop the spread of AIS is to check, double check, and triple check your trailer and drain plug. However, does the drain plug really matter was the debate from the beginning. How many lakes have AIS where water in the hull of the boat, livewell, etc… can be transported. Obviously, I don’t know the answer but I am sure someone could “Estimate” it. Even though I am in agreeance with it how nit picky do you want get about a drain plug. Then you might as well have the entire boat checked and cleaned after every trip to the lake, there are just too many areas that could hold AIS.

    All those statistics do only prove a few things, one those are the only people that got caught not obeying the vague rules set aside by the DNR. Two its just another way of showing off some type of analysis they can use to justify the rules because there is no way of proving the violators did indeed have AIS on their boats. Three BK you will never be able to argue with legislators that have their agendas set not matter how well thought an argument or data to refute them. I work in government and I will be the first (not the only) to tell you when dealing in politics you can take common sense and throw it out the door.

    I think the statement of you might as well test them all, because if one is guilty they all are is funny because that seems to be the mentality in this situation and brings us to a whole new forum.

    On a side note, I was on my way to LOTW earlier this year and drove through Washkish there was two CO’s in a vehicle with binocs checking each vehicle with a trailer that drove by. Now I can only assume they were looking for boats with drain plugs in them. All I could think about was there goes my tax dollars hard at work again.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1092343

    Quote:


    Three BK you will never be able to argue with legislators that have their agendas set not matter how well thought an argument or data to refute them. I work in government and I will be the first (not the only) to tell you when dealing in politics you can take common sense and throw it out the door.


    Funny. I just sent that same message to a friend in less words.

    Bottom line. Be very careful for whom we vote for whether it’s discrimination of color or the AIS crisis.

    Hear that Mr. McNamara?

    SLACK
    HASTINGS, MN
    Posts: 711
    #1092344

    Quote:


    Hear that Mr. McNamara?


    no he didn’t, believe me i know.

    heres my take on plug “my boat doesn’t leak, if i forget to put the plug back in i have a big leak in my boat.
    my plug is not easy to get to or get out (fits REAL snug)

    there are some things that just DO NOT belong on the out side of the boat and the plug is one of them.

    redneck
    Rosemount
    Posts: 2627
    #1092356

    Where is the common sense in any of this. Give me a sticker to put on my boat that says I can only be in infected water and leave me the heck alone. I fish Pool 3 and Pool 4 and when I want something exotic—and futile—I hit the St. Croix. There is no way I am spreading anything. Make it so I have to go to some silly wash station if I go to uninfected waters and LEAVE ME ALONE!!!! Heck, it might even detour that kid of mine from chasing those nasty green carp

    herb
    6ft under
    Posts: 3242
    #1092361

    Buzz, just exactly how long do you think that water stays in your motor? Just a couple seconds is my guess. Not enough to heat it to kill. Hold your hand under your pisser. Is that hot enough to kill zebs?
    Editors note; the second to last sentence opened the door to public comment. Have at it boys and girls.

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #1092380

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Not buying the time thing, can’t take more than 3-5 seconds to put a plug in and it can be done while their pulling the tie down straps off….or don’t they need them too?

    One way to look at it though is eventually they’ll infect every lake they go to and we can get on with our lives while they figure out how to deal with the little buggers.

    Something they should be doing now. imho

    Al


    My big boat has a brass plug that requires a wrench. I don’t use tie downs as the 4,000lb. vessel on a bunk trailer going 30mph through town doesn’t shift an inch. So, I have to remember a wrench and remember to put the plug in while I am doing 10 other things at the launch? This is all so I can launch my totally dry boat?? B.S.


    No, you have options……………

    1) Pay the fine

    2) Don’t get caught

    3) Comply

    4) Don’t use or just sell your boat.

    timmy
    Posts: 1960
    #1092396

    I have mentioned it before, …. all of these asinine requirements may be acceptable to some of you, but they are not to me. I can follow the letter of the law and be deemed “safe” by the all-knowing azzhats that make the rules, but my tyee sits upon a HOLLOW tubed trailer that contains a twisted mess of a wiring harness.

    Fishing alone, I back that trailer in and it sits SUBMERGED for a minute or two while I load my boat……while many gallons of POTENTIALLY INFESTED water fill the frame work. When I pull away, the water drains……..possibly trapping a crapload of ‘things’ in the wiring harness clusters…………. This can easilly transport every AIS they are bellering about to the next lake I drop the trailer in….. AND I AM LEGAL WHILE DOING THIS.

    With issues like this, as well as DUCKS, GEESE, and other WILDLIFE…… I am getting sick of being guilty until proven innocent.

    This whole debacle is azzhattery at its finest.

    T

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1092415

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Quote:


    Not buying the time thing, can’t take more than 3-5 seconds to put a plug in and it can be done while their pulling the tie down straps off….or don’t they need them too?

    One way to look at it though is eventually they’ll infect every lake they go to and we can get on with our lives while they figure out how to deal with the little buggers.

    Something they should be doing now. imho

    Al


    My big boat has a brass plug that requires a wrench. I don’t use tie downs as the 4,000lb. vessel on a bunk trailer going 30mph through town doesn’t shift an inch. So, I have to remember a wrench and remember to put the plug in while I am doing 10 other things at the launch? This is all so I can launch my totally dry boat?? B.S.


    No, you have options……………

    1) Pay the fine

    2) Don’t get caught

    3) Comply

    4) Don’t use or just sell your boat.


    Not much for options… And little recourse against a strictly politically motivated law. It’s a matter of “Look! We ARE doing something about it! See!” and has jack-all to do with actually solving the problem.

    Which really means that the DNR HAS CONCEDED THAT THE PROBLEM CANNOTMBE SOLVED. Because unless you want to remove all the other transport vectors (ducks, geese, bald eagles) it -is- an unsolvable problem.

    scottie56005
    Posts: 236
    #1092439

    The emergency response is a very realistic answer as to why the plug is in this boat. To tell fellow citizens that they must do one thing while a like group does another, is not okay. That is the main issue with this photo.

    When it comes down to brass tacks it sounds like everyone knows the real problem and the real desired solution. Unfortunately I do not think there will be a common ground on this issue within the next year.

    Several great points were previously mentioned but this photo does very little for credibility with the law(s) surrounding AIS.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1092454

    Quote:


    Unfortunately I do not think there will be a common ground on this issue within the next year.


    Totally agree!

    When’s the next gubernatorial election?

    matt-p
    White Bear Lake, MN
    Posts: 643
    #1092467

    I got off the lake tonight and a sheriff came off the same time as me and they actually checked for weeds and pulled there plug… I was sitting right behind them.. Some of them do follow rules that we have to follow..

    sgt._rock
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2517
    #1092519

    Boat plug rules stopping AIS makes about as much sense as a new stadium helping the Vikes win the Superbowl…..

    mike_leclaire
    Grand Rapids, MN
    Posts: 412
    #1092528

    Quote:


    Boat plug rules stopping AIS makes about as much sense as a new stadium helping the Vikes win the Superbowl…..


    Now I think everyone can agree with this statement right here…Love the Vikes but I may never see a superbowl win for them in my lifetime.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1092555

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Not buying the time thing, can’t take more than 3-5 seconds to put a plug in and it can be done while their pulling the tie down straps off….or don’t they need them too?

    One way to look at it though is eventually they’ll infect every lake they go to and we can get on with our lives while they figure out how to deal with the little buggers.

    Something they should be doing now. imho

    Al


    My big boat has a brass plug that requires a wrench. I don’t use tie downs as the 4,000lb. vessel on a bunk trailer going 30mph through town doesn’t shift an inch. So, I have to remember a wrench and remember to put the plug in while I am doing 10 other things at the launch? This is all so I can launch my totally dry boat?? B.S.


    I think you missed I was in reference to the DNR not pulling their plugs, and especially with the boat in the OP picture.
    Nothing to do with you or your yacht..

    Also add, the fact if you have exceptions, why have rules at all when it comes to this subject, or does this mean the DNR can infect lakes/rivers but we can’t?

    Cure, not prevention is where the money should go.

    Al

    ptc
    Apple Valley/Isle, MN
    Posts: 614
    #1092576

    what am I missing, it looks to me like he HAS pulled the plug on that boat.

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1092629

    Quote:


    what am I missing, it looks to me like he HAS pulled the plug on that boat.


    Click the link and look at the bigger version of the picture.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #1092634

    As a full time FF who does water rescue, we remove the plugs on our boats when leaving a water, but they are stored like everything else, ready to go.

    I have had 2 nice talks with nice young girls at the access. Neither could answer any questions about trailers, IO motors, boat lifts being moved between lakes, or animals transporting AIS. I also let them know I will not ever consent them to look inside my boat or open any compartments under any circumstances. I must just be a pr ick.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #1092640

    MIGHT???

    scottie56005
    Posts: 236
    #1092749

    Very wise words there Al! Cure, not prevention. Slippery slope but a very expensive one if you are found on the bottom of that slope. Hey guys I’m down here

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