incorrect flooring estimate – what to do?

I’m in the middle of getting 4 rooms of hickory flooring put in. My wife and I did a lot of shopping before deciding on a contractor. The one we went with was a NARI hardwood flooring contractor of the year a couple years back and had a good reputation from what I could find. They came out and measured all the rooms and gave us an estimate, which came in about $100 under our max budget, so we we signed the estimate where required and paid them half up front.

They started installing last week and the first thing the installer said was “you don’t have enough wood”. Turns out that when the owner of the company came out and measured, they screwed it up by about 80 square feet. I understand mistakes happen, but it wasn’t my mistake.

First they tried to claim they didn’t measure the kitchen because they didn’t think that was included. My wife was here when they measured and helped them move the refrigerator out so they could measure behind it. They measured all the appliance openings. It is also clearly stated in the estimate that it includes the kitchen. After we called them on that one, they said they must have missed including the square feet for the kitchen. They ordered the rest of the wood and are finishing the install today.

The issue at hand now is the difference in the price. Had they done the estimate correctly, it would have been about $600 over our budget. They don’t want to eat any of the additional cost because “they run on a tight profit margin”. I understand that as I run on a tight profit margin as well, and another $600 is not just laying around begging to be spent.

I understand mistakes happen. I am willing to meet them in the middle, they are willing to not charge us for the 5% waste. I haven’t gotten too forceful yet on it as I want them to finish the job first. Unfortunately, I leave for Israel for work on Thursday so my wife will probably have to fight this one without me.

My main question is, how binding is a written estimate? They list the rooms to be done, and the number of square feet of wood required, as well as the cost per square foot for the wood and installation. They didn’t know our budget, so I don’t think it was a case of them quoting a price just under our budget, but I can’t say for sure they didn’t misquote it on purpose.

I don’t want to have to go to small claims court, but I will if I have to. I don’t expect them to eat the entire cost, but I expect them to eat more than what amounts to about 15% of the additional cost.

On the bright side, what is done looks really nice.

Suggestions? Advice? Anyone have a similar experience?

I would say that is a pretty significant overage. They should pay for their own mistakes. I wouldn’t pay them until they work with you. I think meeting them half way is about right.

I agree with WhiskerKev, ther eis ample evicence that they knew theey were to do the kitchen. I’d be a bit peeved that they were woobling on this at all. I’d tell them 1/2 or paper me…

Its only $600 dollars. Splitting the difference seems about right. Making sure you get a quality job done is the most important thing. In the end if you have to pay a few extra bucks for it that will soon be forgotten as compared to a long drawn out hassle with the contractor.

Got a gal down the street from me that had a low end contractor come in to do her dream bathroom. Did a crap job and had a very bad experience with the contractor. Now six years later she still gets upset walking into her bathroom and still comments on how she would of been happy to pay more for a quality job.

John –

When this happens to me I have them eat the labor charge and I usually agree to pay for the materials.

Just my 2 cents.

Dog.

The estimate is binding and you made a material decision based upon it. If it clearly states that the kitchen is included, then the price stands. 60 sq feet is not a rounding error, the screwup is 100% the fault of the contractor.

Now for the part you don’t want to hear. When you’re working with a contractor, it’s like a marriage. Since they started the job, you’re stuck with them and if you want to be rid of them, well, divorce is ugly. You don’t wanna go there if you don’t have to.

I would carefully negotiate, making sure you’re negotiating with someone who has the power to make a binding deal. Don’t antaginoize them, don’t play the blame game, just gently assert that you chose them based on quality and the price given in the estimate provided. Assert that you just don’t have the money and the reason you chose them is because the estimate was just within your budget.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT, NOT, NOT make the final payment UNTIL you have negotiated a satisfactory solution and have the agreement in writing and signed.

Personally, I would consider an offer to pay for the additional material, but at the installer’s wholesale cost, NOT at retail price. If necessary, I would increase to paying retail, but that would be my last, best, final offer. They pay for labor.

It’s a bummer, but that’s home improvement contractors for you.

Grouse

I would agree that splitting the difference sounds fair but I can’t really answer your question as to how binding the estimate might be. Good luck with your situation. My only other suggesting is to talk to these folks face to face if possible and if not, do it by e-mail so have everything in writing.

BTW, nice looking floors We put Hickory in our kitchen, hallway, living room, and family room last July and love it. Guests to our home always comment on how great the floors are

Dave

I think Dog is right on. If it happened to me as a floor installer, I would say I would install and sand the mistake at no cost, and ask the customer to pay for materials. That should be about the $300 you were thinking anyway.

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John –

When this happens to me I have them eat the labor charge and I usually agree to pay for the materials.

Just my 2 cents.

Dog.

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Check the other guys estimates, is there any difference is material or areas for each room needed?

Maybe a quick call to one or two of the other contractors that gave ya estimates, ask what their policy is on estimates? Might give you a good starting point.

PS: Looks great.

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The estimate is binding and you made a material decision based upon it. If it clearly states that the kitchen is included, then the price stands. 60 sq feet is not a rounding error, the screwup is 100% the fault of the contractor.

Now for the part you don’t want to hear. When you’re working with a contractor, it’s like a marriage. Since they started the job, you’re stuck with them and if you want to be rid of them, well, divorce is ugly. You don’t wanna go there if you don’t have to.

I would carefully negotiate, making sure you’re negotiating with someone who has the power to make a binding deal. Don’t antaginoize them, don’t play the blame game, just gently assert that you chose them based on quality and the price given in the estimate provided. Assert that you just don’t have the money and the reason you chose them is because the estimate was just within your budget.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT, NOT, NOT make the final payment UNTIL you have negotiated a satisfactory solution and have the agreement in writing and signed.

Personally, I would consider an offer to pay for the additional material, but at the installer’s wholesale cost, NOT at retail price. If necessary, I would increase to paying retail, but that would be my last, best, final offer. They pay for labor.

It’s a bummer, but that’s home improvement contractors for you.

Grouse

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I agree with Grouse. Contractor should eat the labor if he screwed up the measurements. If you feel that everything was a honest mistake and you are happy with the job you can pay what he charges. I’m sure he would agree to some payment plan on the labor portion. The right thing to do would pay for the material at his cost A.S.A.P.

By your explanation I think you realized his quote was awfully low to begin with. But. it’s your house. I think you have the option of going either way with this one.

Nice floor by the way. I love hickory.
DT

From a contractors standpoint, I would eat the entire expense and not tell anyone that I screwed up becaue that makes me look like a incompetant dink. I would do this 100% of the time. I would take a hit on the job, mention that I screwed up on the estimate and am taking a hit on it, and use it as a marketing tool. Ask for a reference on the job to friends/family and try to turn a negative into a positive.

Now, it sounds like this guy is not willing to take a minor hit on his own mistake. If I were you, I would review his estimate, read HIS written description of scope of work and verify what the exact wording is. If you want me to review it and give you a contractors take feel free to email it to me. Check square footages if listed, read the scope of work, and verify what he said he would do. This just gives you a frame of reference.

Talk to him in frank terms. Tell him (talk to the same guy who wrote you the estimate because he is the ultimately responsible) that you are happy with the work, but unhappy that he is writting a change order as he walks in the door. Bad business practise. Splitting the difference should be a happy medium for both parties as already noted, but go into the conversation with all the information in your hands.

Make sure you let him know that you will either be a fantastic reference, or tell everyone you know that he is a change order artist and not to use him for work. Good Luck

Making a major assumption that their “Estimate” contains the standard language supplied by NARI, your married – congratulations
Also, most of the NARI supplied contract language leaves the contractor empowered to charge for errors and omissions. The biggest downfall is that usually include the agreement that any disputes shall be settled by arbitration with the members on the NARI board. That is a bitter-sweet situation. Grwta in the sense that the contractor is judged by their peers, and they tend to side more often on the home-owners side; unless it is something very unreasonable. Downside is the massive FEE that NARI and the MBA charges. Last I heard the MBA was charging the homeowner $900.00 to file for an arbitration case???????

Also, I assume they had the SQFT for each room listed? The argument becomes – Did you contract them by the room, or by the sqft included. As a General Contractor, I hold them accountable for their measurements and accuracy. They are hired by the room NOT THE SQFT. Did they give you any credit for rooms they over estimated?

One last thing, since I see you went with hickory. Did you reject any of the materials? Very often with hickory floors I’ve had home owners reject material because of the unusual or excessive contrast in the grain of the wood. If so, the contractor would not have allotted for this and maybe asked you to buy more materials???

Splitting the difference is very fare provided the contractor is splitting the cost – not a marked up price.

If you want, PM me the contractor. Would be very interested to know if it one that I have used recently in projects out that way.

Sorry to hear whats going on John. Down this way its a 50/50 proposition and the home owner is responsible for who he hires and is responsible for everything 50/50, because the home owner hired him. The homeowner here is required to find someone that will carry the job through and is required to find someone competent to do so. If you have proof that the kitchen was measured and was supposed to be floored and it wasen’t, then you have the right to make a claim. I’ve been in court twice and we won both times because they didn’t do a good job. The kitchen is a big mistake. I would buy the flooring and have him lay it as a settlement, its a whole lot easier that way. Maybe have them finish it when you come back so you can sign off on it. Have them surface and seal it to what they have done now. The only thing left is the kitchen but try too settle the terms befor you leave if your going to be gone long. If they will lay it, sand it and seal it for the cost of materials, id have them do it and still spread the word around about them. A reasonable settlement is the best and its too bad its happened,,,,,,but some guys will do anything to stay busy and cover thier living expenses, good luck.

Like farmboy said-he should eat it. He quoted a price for a certain amount of work and is obligated to do that work at the given price. I think it is more than fair to meet him half way, and would think he’d jump on that. If you become a bad reference and cost him one future job, that probably makes a 600 dollar mistake look arbitrary.

If I’m ever hiring out any work on my house, I think I’m calling Farmboy!

As someone who works in the field (I’m an architect), I see all sides of this.

2 scenarios here… they either screwed up or this is how they do business. You’ll never know. But the low bid and then change order tactic is definitely not new or uncommon. I’m sorry… I didn’t have that covered. Give me a break. My response is did you look at the plans… and I’m confidant enough in my plans to make them look again.

Its in their estimate by the sound of it, their error, they pay for it. I would not compromise on anything.

Was this an estimate, or bid? There is a difference.

Here is what was written in the estimate, followed by the verbiage about the estimate.

Areas: Hall, living, dining, and kitchen. 446s/f * includes 5% waste
Hickory Natural 1/2″ thick x 3 1/4″ wide Need 20
cartons x 22.5s/f = 450s/f x $4.85
tax of 5.5% on wood
Installation of wood 446s/f x $2.00
Carpet tucks 2 each
1 reducer
1 nosing to lower level
3 door jamb cuts x $15
Customer to remove all current flooring, tack strips, and all tacks.
Removal and Re install current base 110lf x $1.25

propose to hereby furnish materials and labor at the above address in
accordance with the above specifications and in quality equal to the standards of the industry as expressed by the
National Wood Flooring Association and the Madison Area Builders Association. A deposit of 50% or _______ is
due upon acceptance of this proposal, with the remainder due upon completion and satisfaction. After completion
all outstanding balances shall be subject to 1.5% interest compounded monthly. Any alteration or deviation from
above specifications involving extra costs will be executed only upon written order, and will become an extra
charge over and above the estimate.

Now, I don’t expect them to cover all the cost. Mistakes happen and I understand that. According to my ex-wives, I make a lot of them. I would be happy if they just owned up to the mistake, said they screwed up, and proposed some type of discount on the overage.

They came yesterday to finish, and again ran short and didn’t have enough wood to properly do the appliance openings. Their installers do really good work, and everything that is done, was done very well.

I appreciate all the advice and opinions, especially from the contractor perspective. Here are a couple more pictures of the 98% finished job as well. The fact that it looks so nice, and the work is well done, makes me less inclined to be a jerk. If I was unhappy with anything they did, I would be less cooperative with them about the mistake.

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From a contractors standpoint, I would eat the entire expense and not tell anyone that I screwed up becaue that makes me look like a incompetant dink. I would do this 100% of the time. I would take a hit on the job, mention that I screwed up on the estimate and am taking a hit on it, and use it as a marketing tool. Ask for a reference on the job to friends/family and try to turn a negative into a positive.

Now, it sounds like this guy is not willing to take a minor hit on his own mistake. If I were you, I would review his estimate, read HIS written description of scope of work and verify what the exact wording is. If you want me to review it and give you a contractors take feel free to email it to me. Check square footages if listed, read the scope of work, and verify what he said he would do. This just gives you a frame of reference.

Talk to him in frank terms. Tell him (talk to the same guy who wrote you the estimate because he is the ultimately responsible) that you are happy with the work, but unhappy that he is writting a change order as he walks in the door. Bad business practise. Splitting the difference should be a happy medium for both parties as already noted, but go into the conversation with all the information in your hands.

Make sure you let him know that you will either be a fantastic reference, or tell everyone you know that he is a change order artist and not to use him for work. Good Luck

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As a business owner I’ve been on the wrong end of a mistake a few times and its cost my company thousands of dollars but we kept a happy customer and continue to maintain a solid reputation in the industry by taking care of our clients. A good contractor should value a good customer and should NOT risk his reputation over a few hundred dollars is my opinion. By the way those hickory floors look awesome!!

I have made mistakes when bidding on contracts, if I screwed up I screwed up and do not go to the client to make it up. $600 mistake, eat it, keep your reputation in good standing ( I would not let them know of my mistake )rather than having a client go around telling the story that might cost you future business. It is amazing how much bad advertizing $600 can buy.

Isn’t a court case visible in the local newspaper, if it is and you threaten them with court, tell them you’d hate to see thier names in small claims, then tell them you will do it only if they refuse to lay the flooring with you buying it or them covering the whole cost (ideal). If thier competent and the work looks good it might be easier if you did settle that way, then the jobs done. It may take awhile to get into small claims and I’m not suggesting you do or donot but sometimes its easier on the whole situation to settle out of court.

In my opinion you’ll no doubt win John with the contract above, but sometimes its not worth it. One of the times I had to go to court for this lady, she won and they agreed to pay a certain amount every month back to this lady for me to straighten out his job. 2 months later they filed for bankruptcy, this is what I mean by settleing out of court at a 50/50 proposition, but only if you want to and have the cash.

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I have made mistakes when bidding on contracts, if I screwed up I screwed up and do not go to the client to make it up. $600 mistake, eat it, keep your reputation in good standing ( I would not let them know of my mistake )rather than having a client go around telling the story that might cost you future business. It is amazing how much bad advertizing $600 can buy.

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While I can appreciate this thought, I feel a customer is much more likely to reccomend a contractor if they know you are honest. Letting them know you made a mistake (heck, we all do) but that you made an agreement with them and you will follow through on it means a lot to people. It does not need to be a big deal, but tell them you missed it on the bid. Give them a warm fuzzy feeling.

There are a lot of guys who do quality work, I want the guy who has integrity and can admit he was wrong.

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I have made mistakes when bidding on contracts, if I screwed up I screwed up and do not go to the client to make it up. $600 mistake, eat it, keep your reputation in good standing ( I would not let them know of my mistake )rather than having a client go around telling the story that might cost you future business. It is amazing how much bad advertizing $600 can buy.

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While I can appreciate this thought, I feel a customer is much more likely to reccomend a contractor if they know you are honest. Letting them know you made a mistake (heck, we all do) but that you made an agreement with them and you will follow through on it means a lot to people. It does not need to be a big deal, but tell them you missed it on the bid. Give them a warm fuzzy feeling.

There are a lot of guys who do quality work, I want the guy who has integrity and can admit he was wrong.

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X2 Well said!

John, if it doesn’t have a caveat for errors and omissions, you can still stand strong on your opinion that you accepted their bid and they need to honor it. You pdidn’t determine the sqft, they did. You gave them an opportunity to field inspect/measure the project before they started. Had you done the measurements and provided them the info to bid from, then you have some liability in it. But since you gave them every opportunity to provide a complete and accurate quote, AND they are holding you financially accountable, I would refuse to pay. Or at most as mentioned above, cover the materials only and let them eat the labor. I also would pop the question to them…If they had over estimated, would you have received a credit?

John heres another idea that may work, don’t know but it may be worth a try. Hickorys really popular down here too so ask them if thier doing any other hickory floors. If so ask them if they have any extra pieces of over run from any of those jobs. Ask if they do, could they take the extra from that or those jobs to finish the extra flooring needed on your job. Don’t know if will work but its worth a try. Seems kinda hard to believe that in thier warehouse or thier subs warehouses they don’t have enough to finish your job. Personally like the other guys Id just eat the cost, get the floor down and everybodys happy. BTW it does look nice, hickorys pretty nice wood…

Like Farmboy, if I mess up a bid (and yes, there is a difference between a bid and an estimate) I eat the cost to bring the job back into the scope of the project that was initially discussed. I have a kitchen and bath business, and I go out of my way to make sure that my initial bid, is what gets invoiced out at the end of the job, plus change orders. I dont nickel and dime the change orders. If there is something substantial, yes, it needs to be charged for. if its a piece of crown here or there, or additional hardware for their bifold doors that matches the cabinet hardware, then typically there wont be a charge.

While this works out well for me, I do lose bids to the guys that “estimate” the project lower than my bid, get you to sign on the line, then charge more at the end.

Yes, mistakes are made (and Ive made some also) but I would never charge for something like this..But then, I dont charge anything up front either.

We estimate and quote here all day long…. and stand behind our quotes 100%. If there is unforseen overages, we get approval first. If we only figure 6 spark plugs for a V8, that’s our problem, not yours. You should have went with linoleum… JK It looks GREAT

I see they listed everything they were told you wanted done. Its up to them to measure it right and cover that cost, materials and labor in a nutshell, thats the diffrence between a bid and an estimate, this estimate covers totally what they will do. A judge usually sides with a customer when the information is correct, I’ve been there.

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I’m in the middle of getting 4 rooms of hickory flooring put in. My wife and I did a lot of shopping before deciding on a contractor. The one we went with was a NARI hardwood flooring contractor of the year a couple years back and had a good reputation from what I could find. They came out and measured all the rooms and gave us an estimate, which came in about $100 under our max budget, so we we signed the estimate where required and paid them half up front.

They started installing last week and the first thing the installer said was “you don’t have enough wood”. Turns out that when the owner of the company came out and measured, they screwed it up by about 80 square feet. I understand mistakes happen, but it wasn’t my mistake.

First they tried to claim they didn’t measure the kitchen because they didn’t think that was included. My wife was here when they measured and helped them move the refrigerator out so they could measure behind it. They measured all the appliance openings. It is also clearly stated in the estimate that it includes the kitchen. After we called them on that one, they said they must have missed including the square feet for the kitchen. They ordered the rest of the wood and are finishing the install today.

The issue at hand now is the difference in the price. Had they done the estimate correctly, it would have been about $600 over our budget. They don’t want to eat any of the additional cost because “they run on a tight profit margin”. I understand that as I run on a tight profit margin as well, and another $600 is not just laying around begging to be spent.

I understand mistakes happen. I am willing to meet them in the middle, they are willing to not charge us for the 5% waste. I haven’t gotten too forceful yet on it as I want them to finish the job first. Unfortunately, I leave for Israel for work on Thursday so my wife will probably have to fight this one without me.

My main question is, how binding is a written estimate? They list the rooms to be done, and the number of square feet of wood required, as well as the cost per square foot for the wood and installation. They didn’t know our budget, so I don’t think it was a case of them quoting a price just under our budget, but I can’t say for sure they didn’t misquote it on purpose.

I don’t want to have to go to small claims court, but I will if I have to. I don’t expect them to eat the entire cost, but I expect them to eat more than what amounts to about 15% of the additional cost.

On the bright side, what is done looks really nice.

Suggestions? Advice? Anyone have a similar experience?

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It really seems like a big problem but I would suggest you that they should pay for their own mistakes it was there fault they have pay for it and not you, If would have been in place of you then I wouldn’t pay them until they work with it.

Wood floor guy should eat the cost. Like mentioned already they came out and measured before hand and as long as there was not any miscommunication on you wife’ part (which we see more often than not honestly) then you should not be responsible. Assuming it is a prefinish floor from the looks of it the actual cost to the contractor is probably half that. We have eaten thousands of $$ over the years similar to this and as long as the customer is happy and we leave them with a stack of business cards to hand out to friends/family we always make it up long term.

It’s been Two Months since the OP … any word on how this was settled ?