Should the Vikings Get a Stadium?

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Why is a study done by the U of M not acceptable? Which stats that Dave has listed are untrue? James, your study seemed to focus on aveage wages of workers, but did not adress taxes lost to the state. Obviously losing the taxes of an entire sports franchise is a big loss. I think that they should take the taxes generated by the Vikings to help pay for the stadium. It wouldn’t pay for all of it but if you took all the taxes from the Vikings employees,plus everyone involved in building the stadium you would have a huge chunk of change. That money would be breaking even for the sate. Throw in the surplus of the twins stadium tax, and a very very very small percentage from pull tabs and I bet they would be close to paying for it without any new taxes

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Actually the studies I cited account for lost income taxes paid by players. Please… go read them. Or others. You can’t hardly google economic impact of sports without finding dozens upon dozens of articles, papers and studies to read. What you’ll find is overwhelmingly “unflattering” to the position of those that think the stadium build makes good financial sense for the state.

Josh, I should clarify. I don’t care about the stadium. Go ahead a let them stay and have 10 new stadiums. Myself and everyone else aren’t against a stadium.

We are against giving our money to a billionaire for a private business venture. It should not be funded with public dollars. Unless the public gets back an equal % of the profits indefinitely.

You are right, I should have clarified.

Big G. See the links James posted. The measly two revenue from players and stadium employees come no where near covering the initial investment of a stadium. The only thing a pro team brings to the table is increasing the quality of living in a certain state/area. At best that is subject, certainly not objective.

It just seems insane to me to me that in a time of deficits, school funding cuts, infrastructure maintenance cuts that we are talking about funding a toy.

That is analogous to any one of you buying a new Skeeter when the truck you depend on for work is actively breaking down.

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What would be the economic impact if they leave?

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I just read a study that compared tax revenue collected by the respective states before and after the Rams and Cardinals moved showed no significant changes in revenues collected. I don’t have time to track that down right now but that info is out there. And it is hard to argue with numbers in black and white. Taxes collected before and after a team departs an area in my mind are a highly accurate way to gauge economic impact and everything I read showed no significant net change… which I found quite interesting.

So Wade, you have never heard of subsidies, tax breaks or even tax dollars being used to bring new business/venture to a city or area ? This is done DAILY across the state and nation. It is how business is attracted and retained in an area. Giving billionaires tax breaks and incentives to stay are not new and should not be unknown to anyone, unless they are uninformed. Hopefully this thread will at least do that then. In this country, you are allowed to negotiate and also to choose where you want your business/team to reside, do not fault the Wilf’s for that

Some of the same people arguing here, historically were AGAINST equal or god forbid a higher tax rate for billionaires…

Tax revenues are nice, but how would local “business” the restaurants, the bars, the hotels be impacted ? Do you think 5,000 out of state people will randomly visit downtown Mpls on a cold December night, for the fun of it ? Or maybe will they come for a Football game ? How can people not see this ? I am not even including the people from outstate and Vikings fans from the Dakotas that make the trek… drive 94 sometime after a Vikings game and check out the Dakots lic plates with fans wearing Gold & Purple headed North…. Do you think they are coming down for the great sidewalks ???

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So Wade, you have never heard of subsidies, tax breaks or even tax dollars being used to bring new business/venture to a city or area ? This is done DAILY across the state and nation. It is how business is attracted and retained in an area.

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Doesn’t mean it is right then or now. I guess there are enough of us who have had enough and are standing up and saying NO.

In minnesota we have 4 major pro sports teams. those teams pay dozens of people millions of dollars to stay in Minnesota. They buy huge houses, cars, jewelery, and everything else pro athletes splurge on. Some even open up there own businesses in state, see matty b’s, joe sensors, tom reid’s. All this has no impact on the economy? Really? Of those 4 major sports they have 174 home games every year. Those games draw tens of thousands of people to the downtown area and many more to bars and restaurants across the state. Still, you say these 174 home games don’t have any effect on small businesses or the economy? That sir, is ridiculous

I’m not going to bother reading. I’ve read all these things in the past and its why I said proponents need to take the economic impact out of the discussion. But I am wondering if there is any difference in a top team leaving or a team that is an institution. What would happen if the Yankees moved? Or the Packers? Probably doesn’t make much difference economically, would be my guess.

$548 million in public dollars. I wonder what the economic impact and ROI would be if the state gave $100,000 to 5480 Minnesotans who fall in under the poverty level. or $50,000 to 10,960 Minnesotans. I bet the ROI on tax revenue alone would blow the ROI for the loss of the Vikings out of the water.

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In minnesota we have 4 major pro sports teams. those teams pay dozens of people millions of dollars to stay in Minnesota. They buy huge houses, cars, jewelery, and everything else pro athletes splurge on. Some even open up there own businesses in state, see matty b’s, joe sensors, tom reid’s. All this has no impact on the economy? Really? Of those 4 major sports they have 174 home games every year. Those games draw tens of thousands of people to the downtown area and many more to bars and restaurants across the state. Still, you say these 174 home games don’t have any effect on small businesses or the economy? That sir, is ridiculous

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As you read through various studies, look for sections that elaborate on “substitution and/or exchange.”

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I’m not going to bother reading. I’ve read all these things in the past and its why I said proponents need to take the economic impact out of the discussion.

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Agreed. All it does it rile up people like me. The better route would be to talk pride, heritage, tradition, etc. Not that it would sway my thinking on it but the last thing the pro-stadium crowd should be talking about is the financial impact… because it isn’t pretty.

if there was an option to give over 10,000 minnesotans $50,000 or build a stadium, i would give the money to minnesotans. Too bad that isn’t the option

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$548 million in public dollars. I wonder what the economic impact and ROI would be if the state gave $100,000 to 5480 Minnesotans who fall in under the poverty level. or $50,000 to 10,960 Minnesotans. I bet the ROI on tax revenue alone would blow the ROI for the loss of the Vikings out of the water.

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We already do that. Granted a lot of it is on a federal level.

Thanks for the discussion guys, I’m going fishing. We have people on both sides and it’s part of what makes this country great.

As I’ve stated before, I think the Queens are asking for too nice of a facility. Rip off the plans for the roof, scale down some of the extras, put in good sightlines, suites, concourses etc. and lets play football!!

But we won’t get football without an investment from the state in terms of real dollars.

ET

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$548 million in public dollars. I wonder what the economic impact and ROI would be if the state gave $100,000 to 5480 Minnesotans who fall in under the poverty level. or $50,000 to 10,960 Minnesotans. I bet the ROI on tax revenue alone would blow the ROI for the loss of the Vikings out of the water.

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I disagree, I’d rather give it to somebody who has proven they know how to work and know how to make money work too. I would bet against your theory in a heartbeat Your peeps would have a huge impact for about 1 year… then they, you & I would be right back where we were. A investment in the Vikings goes on and on and on… maybe even employ some of your below poverty level peeps your talking about and lift them into the middle class

How do you guys do it? 420 was just yesterday!
Look at that, that squirrel is waving at me through the window.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only reason to build the thing is ego, plain and simple. Believe it or not many, many cities in this country actually thrive without pro football.

Like Eric said ONE BILLION DOLLARS is to much, I don’t care if Zig is putting up a couple hundred million of his own money. It’s to much.

The other issue is state income taxes. Yes the athletes pay them. But, they aren’t paying nearly what you or I am % wise. 90% of pro athletes list Florida and Texas as there home. Why? Because they don’t pay taxes there. The players get charged a rate dependent on the number of home games played in Minnesota. Both the Vikings and the visiting teams.

Also many of the stadium employees are part time event people. Most have other jobs and if the Vikings leave they will find other part time employment. Not to many of the stadium workers will find themselves unemployed.

So, Give the Vikings a fair amount of money for their 10 home dates a year times the 30 year lease. (300 Vikings dates plus any play-offs) How about $400 million, which is about what the Twins ended up with. Now, Zig can build any kind of stadium he wants valued over $400 million. With a roof, without a roof, with parking, without parking, with tail gating, without tail gating, with museums without museums, with restaurants, without restaurants………you get the idea.

Just cuz Jerry Jones spent 1 BILLION DOLLARS doesn’t mean we have to.

The ONLY reason is ego? I guess that’s one way to go.

Yes, it is the only reason. Lord knows, all the fans want to watch their favorite team play in a dump. Especially the sky boxes, the more they can make them like a trailer park, the more the corporate sponsors will pay

You can argue all day long. This report shows this, that report shows that. What the true impact is cannot be known. Figures lie and liers figure. Any information these days is skewed to the reporters predjudice. To say any report is more valid than another is a lie, because we don’t know who paid for it, and what predetermined outcome they wanted. The NFL determined a team is good, what a shock.

I am against spending taxpayers money for just about everything, but in this case I can see value in a NFL team in MN. Look on IDO alone and the number of posts that center on the team, the banter between states, heck even BK starts Vikings posts. Is there anyone who cannot say they discussed the Vikes in the past year?

Quit the b and m ing, get the stadium done and forget it. I would like to go back to talking about football and fishing instead of taxes and pulltabs.

Farmboy for Governor!!

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Farmboy for Governor!!

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And he sent how much to zizzy for the new stadium he wants??

Governer…ya I suppose, he wants to spend somebodies else’s money just like dayton and the rest of them crooks do..why not.

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Farmboy for Governor!!

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if, and only if, he will appoint Tom Sawvell as Comissioner of both the Dept of Revenue and Dept of Transportation

he has a dream