Should the Vikings Get a Stadium?

Most people i know are die hard sports fans including myself….. id hate to see the vikes leave.

1 was a vikings fan from 1988-2001. In all that time, not once did io have a superbowl to brag about nor many wins. Then,to add insult to injury, the vikes took on bret farr!! i say if they want a new stadium let them earn it. Put a clause in the contract giving them 4 yearsto win or atleast make it to the superbowl. If they dont make it (lmao) than it gets turned over to the city for as public sports park.

Most my friends are tired of their hard earned money going other places than in their accounts.

Poll sucks, should have been restricted to those who may have to pay for it only.

This poll is like asking a politician if they have a hard time spending our money…imho

Al

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Completely invalid poll given people from out-state with no obligation to pay or to the state will be able to vote.

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I disagree with this reply on a couple counts.

1) Take the Twins stadium which is a Hennepin County use tax. Yes, Hennepin county residents see this more often, but even the out of town Brewers or White Sox fan, staying downtown, pays a tax that goes to their stadium.

2) Much of the public funds in the Vikings deal is from pull tabs. If you don’t play pull tabs you don’t contribute, that simple. Doesn’t matter where you live.

3) Many of my neighbors work in Hennepin County and other Metro counties and many pay MN income tax, so to say that WI residents aren’t affected by this just isn’t completely true.

ET

It’s pretty simple to me. I pay a TON of taxes for things I don’t use or care to use. I also think some of the things I pay for and don’t use are important to the people that do use them. But, I am a big fan of the Vikings and would be very pi$$ed if they left. I support building a stadium with the use of my tax money. Just get it #!!&*#$@#%#@ built.

People choose to live in the “city” just as people choose to live in the country…. and hopefully they enjoy everything each has to offer. If you live in the city, but don’t enjoy the atmosphere/venues or the taxes, move or buck up and pay

I must say I was a little offended that Roger Goodell came here to basically threaten the MN legislature with the possibility of moving. He is not a MN resident and it is none of his business. I say we tell Goodell to go pound sand and take the Vikings with him.

That or if he really wants the Vikings to stay here maybe he could pony up what Ziggy won’t. The MN residents have already spoken on this topic.

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I must say I was a little offended that Roger Goodell came here to basically threaten the MN legislature with the possibility of moving. He is not a MN resident and it is none of his business. I say we tell Goodell to go pound sand and take the Vikings with him.

That or if he really wants the Vikings to stay here maybe he could pony up what Ziggy won’t. The MN residents have already spoken on this topic.

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I completely disagree Wade. The NFL is a business and Goodell has everything to do with it. I am glad he came and hopefully it will help get a stadium built.

To each his own.

I am not a billionaire. But I would gladly take your money. Why don’t you give me a bunch of money for a new boat or a new truck just cause I am not happy with the perfectly good one that I already have.

Or do I have to be super rich for you to want to give me hand outs?

If people cannot see what the Vikings and Ziggy bring to the area and state, then they are just being closed minded. More than Ziggy and more than the outstate will benefit from the team here. (guess who will benefit most, Mpls and Henn Cty) Opponents like to say “the people have spoken”… really ? Where did they speak this ? Everyone I talk to, wants the deal done. I also believe some of the “mouths” on here, really want them to stay, but don’t want to say it here…

The people speaking

http://www.austindailyherald.com/2012/04/17/vikings’-stadium-bill-likely-dead-after-it-fails-committee/

http://www.bemidjipioneer.com/event/article/id/100039046/

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If people cannot see what the Vikings and Ziggy bring to the area and state, then they are just being closed minded. More than Ziggy and more than the outstate will benefit from the team here. (guess who will benefit most, Mpls and Henn Cty) Opponents like to say “the people have spoken”… really ? Where did they speak this ? Everyone I talk to, wants the deal done. I also believe some of the “mouths” on here, really want them to stay, but don’t want to say it here…

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If this stadium deal WAS actually a no-brainer “good deal” for the state it would already be done.

I’ve been a lifelong Vikings fan but I’m so dead set against the use of public funds for a stadium if that means they leave, they leave.

The reality for me is I’m neither closed minded or one to take the nonsense fed to me as gospel. I’ve done a lot of reading on this subject. Professional sports teams and state investment in stadiums CANNOT be justified financially. Period. If it could, the teams would do it themselves. Instead they count on team loyalists to be gullible enough to allow politicians to throw open the bank vaults.

The Stadium Gambit and Local Economic Development

THE SORDID TRUTH ABOUT ECONOMIC IMPACT

in stark contrast to the results claimed by most prospective economic impact studies commissioned by teams or stadium advocates, the consensus in the academic literature has been that the overall sports environment has no measurable effect on the level of real income in metropolitan areas. Our own research suggests that professional sports may be a drain on local economies rather than an engine of economic growth.

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I am not a billionaire. But I would gladly take your money. Why don’t you give me a bunch of money for a new boat or a new truck just cause I am not happy with the perfectly good one that I already have.

Or do I have to be super rich for you to want to give me hand outs?

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Wade, you buy the Vikings and I would give you my tax money to build a new stadium.

How about an economic study across 36 metropolitan areas?

Pro sports stadiums don’t bolster local economies

That’s because Humphreys and colleague Dennis Coates, a professor of economics at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, haven’t uncovered a single instance in which the presence of a professional sports team has been linked to a boost in the local economy.

“Our conclusion, and that of nearly all academic economists studying this issue, is that professional sports generally have little, if any, positive effect on a city’s economy,” Humphreys and Coates wrote in a report issued last month by the Cato Institute in Washington, D.C. The institute commissioned the professors to study the economic impact of a deal proposed by Anthony Williams, the mayor of Washington, D.C.; under terms of the agreement, the Major Baseball League would move the Montreal Expos to the nation’s capital in exchange for a new, city-built ballpark.

The professors based their report on new data as well as previously published research in which they analyzed economic indicators from 37 major metropolitan areas with major-league baseball, football and basketball teams.

“The net economic impact of professional sports in Washington, D.C., and the 36 other cities that hosted professional sports teams over nearly 30 years, was a reduction in real per capita income over the entire metropolitan area,” Humphreys and Coates noted in the report.

The researchers found other patterns consistent with the presence of pro sports teams. Among them:

• a statistically significant negative impact on the retail and services sectors of the local economy, including an average net loss of 1,924 jobs;

• an increase in wages in the hotels and other lodgings sector (about $10 per worker year), but a reduction in wages in bars and restaurants (about $162 per worker per year).

Those employed in the amusements and recreation sector appeared, at first glance, to benefit significantly from the presence of a pro team, with an average annual salary increase of $490 per worker, Humphreys said. However, he added, “this sector includes the professional athletes whose annual salaries certainly raise the average salary in this sector by an enormous amount.

As it turns out, those workers most closely connected with the sports environment who were not professional athletes saw little improvement in their earnings as a result of the local professional sports environment.”

Wade, the aricles you posted show a 9-6 vote against the stadium BILL, not the stadium. The reason for the “no” vote is because the financing plan was severely lacking any solid numbers. The numbers thrown out for the e-pull tabs are completely ridiculous. Meaning if they plan on raising all the money for the stadium with e-tabs but fall short the state’s general fund would be on the hook for the rest, which would cut into roads and schools. The plan sucked so they voted no. There was a state rep on the radio yesterday talking about the meeting with Goodell. He claimed that during the meeting private businesses stepped forward to show support {whatever that means} and a new back up plan was hatched to take out the possibility of using the states general fund. Thats why the same people that voted it down monday passed it along yesterday. I think the people want a stadium, they just want to make sure they get the best deal possible for the state. Come to think of it, one of the ideas that rep said was to use the surplus tax from the twins stadium to pay for it.

James these are just excuses. The cost to keep the Vikings in MN is on the table. Personally I wish the amount was lower but it is not up to me.

You can be for or against paying this amount for the team. But don’t throw economic impact around, this state clearly wants the team to stay here.

Plus, you are now starting to mix where this money is coming from. We are not robbing the schools or roadways, we are pulling in dollars from pulltabs.

This state needs to find a way to make the deal work with these funds otherwise they can leave.

I do not want the team to leave, and I’d like to use funds generated by the state from new sources of revenue.

And that is a fact. Period!

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You can be for or against paying this amount for the team. But don’t throw economic impact around, this state clearly wants the team to stay here.

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How silly of me to try and use sound financial reasoning when hundreds of millions of dollars are about to be dropped in the lap of a billionaire. I’m sure you’re right with all the bridges and roads being in a perfect state of repair… we’re in such amazing financial shape here in MN I doubt anyone could come up with a better way to spend that money… even if it comes from pull tabs.

Economic impact is not an exuse, its probably the most important factor in whether or not the team stays. If you follow this story very closely you’ll discover that one of the biggest snags so far in this deal is that e-pull tabs can not generate enough revenue to pay for the stadium. Thats why it got voted down Monday, had that deal passed there would have been a high likely hood that money would have to be taken away from roads and schools to fund it. Being a union tradesman I am 100% in favor of building a stadium, but even I can admit that that deal was terrible for everybody involved. Hopefully whatever deal was hatched friday with the NFL present is one that is worth passing.

Do you think not building the stadium is going to lower your taxes? Do you think they’ll put in pull tabs to fix roads?

Please tell me no!

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You can be for or against paying this amount for the team. But don’t throw economic impact around, this state clearly wants the team to stay here.

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How silly of me to try and use sound financial reasoning when hundreds of millions of dollars are about to be dropped in the lap of a billionaire. I’m sure you’re right with all the bridges and roads being in a perfect state of repair… we’re in such amazing financial shape here in MN I doubt anyone could come up with a better way to spend that money… even if it comes from pull tabs.

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X2, well said.

I have a couple of cold Kayak Kolsch’s in the garage fridge with your name on them, if you ever get over this way..

Al

Its not about lowering taxes! Its about not raising them. For the 3rd time, pull tabs WILL NOT pay for the stadium alone, they need other sources of revenue. I wouldn’t mind a slight tax raise for the stadium, I’m all for it. I do think, however, that its completely wrong to bash somebody for not wanting new taxes for a billionaires stadium when our state is flippin’ broke

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How silly of me to try and use sound financial reasoning when hundreds of millions of dollars are about to be dropped in the lap of a billionaire.

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Ok, James… let’s talk Financial reasoning…

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/6/7/2210408/moneygrabber-looking-at-the-vikings-value-to-minnesota

Every year the Vikings contribute $18 million in state and local taxes. Not only does the team contribute to the tax base, but so does the stadium they use-the Metrodome has generated $304 million in tax revenue for the state of Minnesota since it opened. If Minnesota lost the Vikings, we would see a direct loss of millions in tax revenue that the team, and its stadium, brings the state.
Losing the Vikings means the tax base would also suffer indirectly from the loss of Minnesota jobs. Including all the staff, coaches, active players, and practice squad players, the Vikings organization employs approximately 200 people. Vikings’ game days at the Metrodome, including staff, players, and coaches, support 2,800 full- and part-time jobs.

Consider this too, if Minnesota lost the Vikings and the Vikings’ employees, then Minnesota would lose, just from the 53-man active roster, taxpayers who pay 7.85% in Minnesota income tax. This means if a player earns $1 million a season, Minnesota gets $78,500 from that player in income taxes. But for someone like Brett Favre who was being paid $25 million for two seasons with the Vikings, that’s $1,962,500 for the State of Minnesota.

Minnesota also benefits from the Vikings employees living in Minnesota and contributing to the local economy though homeownership and paying property taxes. If the 200 people the Vikings employ live in Eden Prairie, Minnesota (where Vikings headquarters Winter Park is located), and if they follow the 69.74% home ownership rate in Eden Prairie, then 139.48 of the Vikings’ employees are paying Eden Prairie property taxes. The median home value in Eden Prairie is $426,339 and the property tax on that home puts money into both the city of Eden Prairie as well as Hennepin County. Even if the property taxes on that home were only 1%, that is still $4,263.39 going to the city and county.

There is more to read on the above link… including a study by the U of M that did a report on a single playoff game and what visiting attendees to the game paid to restraunts, etc.

Fact is… LOSING the team will do more harm to the economy than partially subsidizing a stadium.

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Do you think not building the stadium is going to lower your taxes? Do you think they’ll put in pull tabs to fix roads?

Please tell me no!

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Please tell me that YOU understand that the pool of dollars available to be spent on entertainment are largely fixed and that simply creating access to e pull tabs doesn’t magically create new dollars that can be taxed.

People will simply move their discretionary spending from one form of entertainment to another. In this case, E pull tabs. This will create partial, and insufficient funding for this new stadium, and pull tax dollars previously available to the general fund in the form of sales tax collected on movies, dining out, etc., into Wilfe’s pocket leaving far more important projects underfunded.

Please tell me YOU understand THAT.

Dave

Blah-blah-blah. Everything you just shared has been debunked many times, from so many angles by uncountable economists not tied to the NFL or those interested in stadium development.

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Dave

Blah-blah-blah. Everything you just shared has been debunked many times, from so many angles by uncountable economists not tied to the NFL or those interested in stadium development.

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So… you would call the U of M an uncountable economist?

THIS JUST IN: James Holst claims that the MN Vikings players, staff, etc do NOT pay income tax! Someone call the IRS! The attorney general! Heck… call Al Franken!

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Dave

Blah-blah-blah. Everything you just shared has been debunked many times, from so many angles by uncountable economists not tied to the NFL or those interested in stadium development.

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So… you would call the U of M an uncountable economist?

THIS JUST IN: James Holst claims that the MN Vikings players, staff, etc do NOT pay income tax! Someone call the IRS! The attorney general! Heck… call Al Franken!

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Dave

Did you hit your head on the way out of your bunk bed this morning?

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THIS JUST IN: James Holst claims that the MN Vikings players, staff, etc do NOT pay income tax!

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Why is a study done by the U of M not acceptable? Which stats that Dave has listed are untrue? James, your study seemed to focus on aveage wages of workers, but did not adress taxes lost to the state. Obviously losing the taxes of an entire sports franchise is a big loss. I think that they should take the taxes generated by the Vikings to help pay for the stadium. It wouldn’t pay for all of it but if you took all the taxes from the Vikings employees,plus everyone involved in building the stadium you would have a huge chunk of change. That money would be breaking even for the sate. Throw in the surplus of the twins stadium tax, and a very very very small percentage from pull tabs and I bet they would be close to paying for it without any new taxes

What would be the economic impact if they leave? I think the economic argument should just be thrown out all together. I feel the same way about commuter rail lines, bicycle paths and other “make work” jobs, to many to try and name here.

I think we should just get rid of all the Minnesota sports teams, colleges included, and concentrate on the things that matter in life. Such as stopping wasteful use of my license money on stocking walleye.

Obviously, some are against using tax monies to fund a stadium, I get that, I am too. But if the alternative, is thousands out of work, that would work the games, the stadium, the practice facilities, the empty houses, hotels, bars, restaurants, team gear that is sold in stores, etc etc etc, then I am against letting them leave and just get me the best deal for my money. That should be everyones goal, get the best deal for all, including the state and the wilfs. But if you really believe studies that pro teams do not add economy to a town, I have a bridge that fell down that I will sell you…. do you think the strip clubs downtown, without a pro team, will make up the dollars that visiting teams and fans pump into them ??? Really ??? Seriously ??? And that is just 1 business of MANY….