Black tarry stuff ?

  • AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1276379

    We are removing the linoleum floor in the kitchen and have ended up with a coating of black sticky tarry stuff covering the sub floor, glue I’m sure, but I’m trying to figure out if this stuff can be removed?

    Been suggested to just lay a 1/8″ sub floor over it and forget it, but it’s pretty thick in spots and would like to get most of it off.

    I’m figuring we’ll end up scraping most of it off, but I hope there’s a better way, tough job for an old fart..

    Any suggestions?
    TIA

    Al

    jason-pitts
    Des Moines, IA and Hager City, WI
    Posts: 196
    #1050677

    How old is the house? If it is black & fairly old there is a pretty good chance that it contains asbestos.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1050678

    House was built about 28, pretty sure it is, but it’s still sticky and we are wearing masks and gloves

    Al

    rod-man
    Pine City, MN.
    Posts: 1279
    #1050691

    try some dry ice
    lay it on a section for about 30-60sec
    pull it away and hit it with a hammer it will be frozen and brittle and will pop off my dad used to do it that way
    when we were kids (he let us do the hammering)

    sgt._rock
    Rochester, MN
    Posts: 2517
    #1050693

    I used gas on mine but it was on concrete. Worked pretty well. So to be safe maybe some other solvent.

    85lund
    Menomonie, WI
    Posts: 2317
    #1050706

    What about the self leveling cement you put down before laying tile to just cover over it and get a smooth surface for your next flooring?

    thebigd25
    st. paul
    Posts: 124
    #1050741

    That stuff is a pain in the rear. Its asphalt mixed with acetone and it stays sticky forever. What is the next flooring going to be? if its a vinyl product it will have to be encapsulated as todays latex adhesives wont bond to the black emulsion. If its ceramic just scrape up the lumps and go for it.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1050803

    Laying vinyl squares over it, we have scraped some of it off and are going to try and use a adhesive remover on the rest, was thinking of the leveling stuff but wasn’t sure if it can go over this black stuff. ??

    Thanks all.

    Al

    riverdan
    Posts: 295
    #1050871

    Quote:


    We are removing the linoleum floor in the kitchen and have ended up with a coating of black sticky tarry stuff covering the sub floor, glue I’m sure, but I’m trying to figure out if this stuff can be removed?

    Been suggested to just lay a 1/8″ sub floor over it and forget it, but it’s pretty thick in spots and would like to get most of it off.

    I’m figuring we’ll end up scraping most of it off, but I hope there’s a better way, tough job for an old fart..

    Any suggestions?
    TIA

    Al


    What you have found is creosote, they use to use it as a wood preservative and as a water proofing barrier, its oil tar base and the dust is toxic

    brucea
    Maplewood,MN
    Posts: 433
    #1050972

    Mineral Spirits and rags.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1050982

    Quote:


    Mineral Spirits and rags.


    I was wondering about that, I’ll give it a try.
    Thanks.

    Al

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1051685

    Its a tar based glue from the old days and nothing will stick to it. Get rid of the high spots and lay underlayment over the top and nail or screw every 4″ too 6″ , its alot of nails etc. but you have to do it too keep new linoleum from coming up. I personally like the dry ice idea the best but mineral spirts will work too.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1051687

    Quote:


    Its a tar based glue from the old days and nothing will stick to it. Get rid of the high spots and lay underlayment over the top and nail or screw every 4″ too 6″ , its alot of nails etc. but you have to do it too keep new linoleum from coming up. I personally like the dry ice idea the best but mineral spirts will work too.


    Pretty much what we’re going to do.
    I doubt we’d get all the glue up but removing the high spots should be do able.

    Also was suggested staples might work better than nails or screws?

    Al

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #1051719

    You should always screw underlayment in my opinion. We always did a 4″x4″ pattern. Careful if you chalk line it as I’ve seen that bleed through vinyl.

    Mike Stephens
    WI.
    Posts: 1722
    #1051749

    Al, pick up a floor scraper with a angled razor blade head at home depot{replaceable blades} and scrape floor. Scrape by going with the grain of the sub-floor,lay down 1/8 inch underlayment and staple with 1/4 inch crown staple 7/8 inch long. At all seams staple every half inch and a 4 inch pattern in the field. I have done over 300 homes this way and never had a call-back. NEVER use screws or nails on 1/8th inch underlayment. Be sure to adjust your staple gun to set staples just below the surface of underlayment. After your all stapled off I run a trowel over it to make sure all staples are set. If and when you find one just hammer it down below surface. Give me a holler if you have any questions.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #1051751

    I would be suspect of Mike’s info.

    1. He’s a Packer fan.
    2. He’s a Packer fan.

    My info is dated, it’s been many years since I’ve installed underlayment. We used a leveling material after the screws were in place to get a “perfectly flat” surface.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1051762

    “”
    At all seams staple every half inch and a 4 inch pattern in the field.
    “””

    I see a new tool purchase, doing this with a manual stapler could get old quick.
    Any suggestions on a stapler, air or elect?

    First scraper we bought could have passed for an ice chisel, it did not work well with the sticky tar stuff.

    I did make the mistake of asking the Lowe’s sales help what they thought would work, that ended up with two of them arguing whether I needed a professional to come in and remove the asbestos tile before I could do anything.

    Our local Home Depot had a better idea, and sent us home with a much thinner scraper, this looks like it might cut though the stuff better.
    And a gallon of adhesive remover just in case.

    What kind of underlayment should I use?
    And does the leveling stuff work well with the vinyl one foot squares, if needed?

    Kooty, be nice to Mike, just because they have a winning football team is no reason to make fun of the cheesehead…

    Al

    Mike Stephens
    WI.
    Posts: 1722
    #1051781

    Definetly 1/4 inch crown air stapler,Duofast, Bostich,etc. I like the birch ply underlayment although you can use luan which is cheaper. The more plys the better. That OLE KOOT hasn’t layed underlayment since he fell off his dinosaur.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1051806

    Quote:


    Definetly 1/4 inch crown air stapler,Duofast, Bostich,etc. I like the birch ply underlayment although you can use luan which is cheaper. The more plys the better. That OLE KOOT hasn’t layed underlayment since he fell off his dinosaur.


    Something like this maybe?

    http://www.lowes.com/pd_373166-353-STN150-18_0__?productId=3532482&Ntt=air+stapler&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dair%2Bstapler&facetInfo=

    Or Bostisch has this one but instead of 1/4″ it’s 7/32″

    http://www.lowes.com/pd_149147-355-SX1838K_0__?productId=3454734&Ntt=air+stapler&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dair%2Bstapler&facetInfo=

    Al

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #1051811

    Al, just hire Mike and go fishing. When you come home the floor will be done. Write him a check and crack a cold beer. Job well done.

    Mike Stephens
    WI.
    Posts: 1722
    #1051814

    That’s a great stapler Al. You might be able to rent one as well. If I lived closer to you I’d help you out. I’d only charge you brewskys. I’d stick with 1/4 inch by 7/8 inch long staples as they are much more readily available

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1051835

    Quote:


    That’s a great stapler Al. You might be able to rent one as well. If I lived closer to you I’d help you out. I’d only charge you brewskys. I’d stick with 1/4 inch by 7/8 inch long staples as they are much more readily available


    Thanks, we’ll pick up the Bosch stapler then, I seem to have a brad nailer that does staples too…I think, maybe look first.

    Thanks for the offer, I have a couple cases of Superior Kayak Kolsch we could work on but I’d want to give ya something extra, to bad ya weren’t closer.

    Thanks all.

    Al

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1051920

    A couple of reasons why they use staples is because theres no dent like what happens with the head of a hammer, staples hold really well, a person would be surprised, try to pull a 1″ staple, its harder then you think. You can buy a box of staples for about 8 bucks and would probably do the whole kitchen floor. Birch plywood is the best because its more ridged then mahogany luan plywood, its softer, birch is harder, but both will work. Watch the joints where the pieces meet and run a palm sander over the joints to get rid of any splinters standing up. If you have any bigger cracks in the joints prefill with a joint filler, body puttys a good filler but they have other products too, don’t use Durhams filler that stuff is almost inpossible to sand, they have other kinds. Befor you lay the underlayment down it doesen’t hurt to use a filler in the areas that are low, bigger dips, smaller ones and the underlayment will bridge them. Linoleum is fairly thin so try to get a decent smoother surface but you don’t have to go overboard.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1051979

    Quote:


    A couple of reasons why they use staples is because theres no dent like what happens with the head of a hammer, staples hold really well, a person would be surprised, try to pull a 1″ staple, its harder then you think. You can buy a box of staples for about 8 bucks and would probably do the whole kitchen floor. Birch plywood is the best because its more ridged then mahogany luan plywood, its softer, birch is harder, but both will work. Watch the joints where the pieces meet and run a palm sander over the joints to get rid of any splinters standing up. If you have any bigger cracks in the joints prefill with a joint filler, body puttys a good filler but they have other products too, don’t use Durhams filler that stuff is almost inpossible to sand, they have other kinds. Befor you lay the underlayment down it doesen’t hurt to use a filler in the areas that are low, bigger dips, smaller ones and the underlayment will bridge them. Linoleum is fairly thin so try to get a decent smoother surface but you don’t have to go overboard.


    Thanks, we’re hitting the floor today after a bit of rest (body recovery) and I think we have a good idea of what to do now.
    Thanks all.

    Al

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1057869

    OK, after a bit more chiseling and a half bottle of Ibuprofen I decided to try chemicals, but luckily someone suggested heat…the heat gun was finally found (stuck in with the drills?) and it works pretty well…wife heats and I scrape with a long handled scraper.

    We’ll still need to use the chemicals to clean the wood up a bit but I think we’re winning.
    Have to, they just emailed us and the cabinets are done a week early, their coming next week.

    ?.. When we get the floor cleaned, do we put the plywood down first then the leveling stuff or the other way around?

    Also it was reccomended to use 1/8″ underlayment, what kind and where do I find this stuff? Mike?

    Seems the box stores have 1/4″ unless I’m missing it.

    tia

    Al

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1057883

    It depends if the floor leveler will stick to the black sticky stuff, I wouldn’t chance it. It depends if the leveler is going to be under the cabinets, if it is, it will never be walked on so Id say go for it. If its in the walking area I wouldn’t. Use 1/4″ floor underlayment because any low spot the thicker underlayment will bridge and hold better, so the vinyl doesn’t come unglued. Usually its the leveler first then the underlayment over the top, in your case the leveler will stick very well to the underlaymnet and so will the linoleum to the leveler. Use a good straight egde to use as a screed to get it real leveled in. If its got little imperfections just trowl smooth, it dosen’t have to be like glass, just smooth enough so any imperfections don’t show through the linoleum after walking on it several times. Staples do hold really well, try pulling one out thats an inch long or more, if you’ve got alot of them you’ll cuss like heck and more ibuprofen might not help…

    Mike Stephens
    WI.
    Posts: 1722
    #1057888

    Home depot and Menards have the 1/8th inch underlayment. The birch ply is the best, but you can use luan. It don’t sound like you need to use a leveler if you’re scraping to the subfloor. Hope this helps.

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1057901

    Quote:


    Home depot and Menards have the 1/8th inch underlayment. The birch ply is the best, but you can use luan. It don’t sound like you need to use a leveler if you’re scraping to the subfloor. Hope this helps.


    THANKS.

    Must have missed it, off tonight to find underlayment and 5 million staples…:)

    Al

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