Sorry, but this makes me Sick!

There isnt supposed to be a “them” and “us” but “they” insist on it so we oblige.

..and let me clear a couple things up as well regarding my stance here. Randy, I’m not personally offended, but other users here sure as hell would be and probably are. It’s a hotbutton topic for sure but the moronic reactions are what gets my goat. I’ll use these two as examples as well:

“I would like to give them something religious. f@$&#@g idiots”
So what are you going to give “them”?..and who are “them”? Are you referring to an entire race of people? Referring to a select few who possibly might be doing this for valid reasons..or possibly doing it looking to push some buttons..which they obviously have. Sorry dude but your comment truly makes you look like the idiot.

“I don’t think it’s the eagles that need killing.”
Same goes here..Who needs the killing? Don’t think I’m misunderstanding this comment whatsoever???

Sure, the Bald Eagle is a national symbol..It is what it is.
As sportsmen you should just be happy good ol’ Ben Franklin didn’t get his way when that decision was made

“For my own part I wish the Bald Eagle had not been chosen the Representative of our Country. He is a Bird of bad moral Character. He does not get his Living honestly. You may have seen him perched on some dead Tree near the River, where, too lazy to fish for himself, he watches the Labour of the Fishing Hawk; and when that diligent Bird has at length taken a Fish, and is bearing it to his Nest for the Support of his Mate and young Ones, the Bald Eagle pursues him and takes it from him.

“With all this Injustice, he is never in good Case but like those among Men who live by Sharping & Robbing he is generally poor and often very lousy. Besides he is a rank Coward: The little King Bird not bigger than a Sparrow attacks him boldly and drives him out of the District. He is therefore by no means a proper Emblem for the brave and honest Cincinnati of America who have driven all the King birds from our Country…

“I am on this account not displeased that the Figure is not known as a Bald Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the Truth the Turkey is in Comparison a much more respectable Bird, and withal a true original Native of America… He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a Bird of Courage, and would not hesitate to attack a Grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his Farm Yard with a red Coat on.”
-Benjamin Franklin

Great post Jeremy! Its so ignorant to get mad at an entire race of people for doing something that is allowed by the politicians WE elected. Lets not get upset with the tribes, but with the people making the policies.

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“Redskins” huh??
You guys might not agree with this eagle issue, spearing of fish, or netting of “your” Mille Lacs walleyes, but I sure as hell wouldn’t expect stupid racist terms to be tolerated here on IDO just as heated political arguments don’t get too far either. If you have a problem with the issues at hand there are much better and more adult-like ways to vent your frustrations. Not a knock on you Brett by any means but as a staff member I wouldn’t have expected that from you. I’m not chiming in here to debate the issue wether its right,wrong, a violation of your “rights”, native “rights”, or whatever otherissues are at hand…Just don’t enjoy viewing reactionary posts flamingthe fire of ignorance.

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. Let’s see you called ignorant, a racist, you should be ashamed of yourself to use the racist card if you are anIndian. The laws that exist from recent years have nothing to do with equal right just laws that buy votes. You mentioned several ways I could satisfy my frustrations . Could you please list say 10. There are only one set of laws in this country which govern us all. Let’s get back to a word you like to use racist. Would you please tell me what you have read here that is wrong. I faced the sling and arrows for 35 years by every race you can think of, fist beaten, shot at!, run down by an auto.bricks throughn at me, slapped, scratched in the face. Threatened to be shot by a known underground group. My name and pic in the newspaper so they knew who to shoot, and was followed for weeks by the FBI see if a member and known murderer would shoot me. ML is everybodies to fish but only one race ruining it now did I call you a racist. Some day the misuse of our resourses will be taken serious along with commodities, stipend and casinos.
,

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I don’t go to casinos either,but, I don’t think that has anything to do with this topic. Sportsman going to casinos is not what gives native americans the right to kill eagles. Our government gives them the right. Steve Fellegy has said it several times, the fight is NOT with native american tribes, its with the government.

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Jeremy you cant hide behind that childish idea. That law should have followed a lawful proceedure with votes being made before both Houses. Was there amilion Indians on hand to make sure our eagle is protected or were there thousands wanting to defeat it.

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Great post Jeremy! Its so ignorant to get mad at an entire race of people for doing something that is allowed by the politicians WE elected. Lets not get upset with the tribes, but with the people making the policies.

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I’ll stay upset with the tribes thank you. They are the ones demanding their own rules and performing all these outrageous acts that dont have a place in modern society. It may be politically correct to say this is a government issue but in reality its not. In my mind and everyone I know its ALL their fault. Just my humble opinion.

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This just another thumb in the eye by our native Americans. I didn’t kill any Indians, I didn’t give them any blankets infested with pox. I didn’t steal any of their land. I was not at he site where some fist fights broke out when WI. Allowed them to steal thousands of walleyes and continues to this day. They may have eaten some fish but some are sold. Their spearing of musky is the same as killing eagles neither are good to eat and or serve as the basis of a religion which worships everything in our world, sun, moon, earth and a free living for ” their” eagles. There are many eagles in re-hab and museums that are their available so there is no need to kill an adult breeding bird. Oops they don’t care about the future of any animal species. I will have to find something that the U.S. harmed the Norweigans. I want the Mn symble of Vikings removed from their football team. I am just kidding! Where is the Audebon Society on this one?

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Well I have to disagree with ya here! Muskies are excellent table fair!

“I’ll stay upset with the tribes thank you. They are the ones demanding their own rules and performing all these outrageous acts that dont have a place in modern society.”

Demanding their own rules? I think their just asking to celebrate in a way that was taken away from them. I sure do not think its to put a thumb into the mans eye. If anything it looks as though its the other way around by some.

What is Modern day society any ways? Is it a denial of cultures way to celebrate and honor? Then we must not recognize or celebrate this Easter or any other religious holiday in fear of upsetting someones religious belief and ceremonies or non belief. This way we can save countless lives of the swine or the slaughter of millions of turkeys. After all the turkey was ounce offered to be this Nations symbol.

How about this compromise that was submitted by the Government to allow Oregon wind farm generator to kill up to 3 eagles. The permit, if ultimately issued, stipulates that there must be no net loss to breeding populations of golden eagles from the wind farm project. That means for every protected bird permitted killed, developers must contribute to conservation efforts for breeding them.

Where is outrage over this? Or is it ok to give special consideration to those that only benefit us. That’s modern day society?

I think some just take anything a Native American does as direct and meaningful act against them which in most part is not true IMO. Same goes for the apposing sides hence a continuing circle of mistrust and misunderstanding and no tolerance. Thicker skin is needed.

Just a bit of Devils advocate.

I am trying to figure out why people are so worried about one species of bird that is not in any way endangered. I can’t wait until they open a hunting season on them and I can mount one next to my wolf and sandhill crane.

It is just a bird.

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I am trying to figure out why people are so worried about one species of bird that is not in any way endangered. I can’t wait until they open a hunting season on them and I can mount one next to my wolf and sandhill crane.

It is just a bird.

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It’s not like they want 50% of the Eagles…

Just like the walleye gill netting issue, this too would have to be addressed through the US Gov’t and the treaties they entered Us into, back in the 1800’s. I think it unfair to lump all Natives into one group, maybe 5% are exercising their rights, which some take offense too, but nonetheless are granted them by the US Gov’t. If you truely are sickened, then I suggest you do what I did and try to help bring this to a front and have our Gov’t address the grievences, with special rights given any particular ethnicity. Click this link and help do something about it Equal Rights

“Demanding their own rules? I think their just asking to celebrate in a way that was taken away from them. I sure do not think its to put a thumb into the mans eye. If anything it looks as though its the other way around by some.”

You’re right. They are just celebrating….Just like we should all celebrate like our ancestors. Who, by the way, didn’t have to deal with the slot limits or possession limits like we do today. So should we go out and keep any length fish we want just because our ancestors did??
Come on Riverweed. Modern rules and limits are put in place to protect us and our resources. No man, regardless of skin color should be allowed to bend the rules, less ALL of us should. That’s what Suzuki means. You can put whatever spin on it you’d like.

Mike

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Demanding their own rules? I think their just asking to celebrate in a way that was taken away from them. I sure do not think its to put a thumb into the mans eye. If anything it looks as though its the other way around by some.

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They want to celebrate something that was taken away from them……
Well, you could say the same for Hitler and Germany, Ceaser and Rome, Xerxes and Persia, Egypt and the Pharoahs.
Shall I continue?
All of the above committed crimes against humanity. They were just trying to do what was “taken away from them”.

You can get mad at “redskin”, and I can get mad at “white”.
There was a war. Someone lost and someone won. Actually, there were several wars. Those who claim this land is their original home are not the original people of this land. They faught off another tribe to own it.

The racial segregation has to stop and the sufferage against the US Citizen from the government to place the Indian at a higher level has to end.

On a side note, wait until the courts end up ruling in the natives favor in the case involving fishing right. That happened in Wisconsin back in the late 80’s-early 90’s. Then, the do what the protestors didn’t do here. “Boycott their slots and tables”, if you can resist the temptation.

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I am trying to figure out why people are so worried about one species of bird that is not in any way endangered. I can’t wait until they open a hunting season on them and I can mount one next to my wolf and sandhill crane.

It is just a bird.

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This conversation has gravitated to more than just the eagles.

You can spin it whatever way to make your poiny of view. Bottom line is supposedly everyone is equal, but some have more rights than others and that is not fair. Laws are made and then the Government changes the law to fix a problem that arises. I think treaties are the same. It has created a problem and you change it to fix that problem. By the way I do not support any casinos, Native American or any other.

Omitting a phrase in a dialogue Quoted is cheap and untrustworthy and untrue to prove ones point. Talk about Spin Woooooooooooooooa Nelly.

Back Nelly. Pull back Nelly I have to find my waders and belt its getting deep. You are now the victim for what your ancestors inflicted on you? No responsibility of history or the denial of it repeats itself. Imperialism does not work so look at the history you graciously presented and maybe you might see the correlation in which you advocate.

So, How many of you would throw a fit if our wonderful government decided to make the turkey the national bird of the US, and outlawed the killing of them? I know I would! How many of you would still find a way to have that Thanksgiving, or Christmas turkey, thereby breaking the law? Do you think there would be people lobbying to get the law changed? Then, 70 years later, when the government finally listened to the lobbyists, and started granting permits to harvest turkeys, would you would be celebrating? Would you be telling the people protesting the permits to mind their own business? Would you be telling these people that years ago, it was a custom that you had to give up, and you should be free to follow your customs? Heck, you could eat Spam instead of turkey!

The Northern Arapaho have, for centuries, “offered an eagle to the creator” (Creator? hmmm! I’m not going to get into a religion discussion here, but everyone has the freedom to practice the religion of their choice). They used a Bald Eagle for many of the same reasons the United States made it the national bird, back in 1782, “because of its long life, great strength and majestic looks”. If I remember my history correctly, it wasn’t until the 1940’s that it became illegal to hunt Bald Eagles. So, even though I would never kill an eagle, or hawk for that matter, I can see why the Northern Arapaho people would want to go back to following a custom that was taken away from them only decades ago. I would venture to guess that these same people don’t want to see the Bald Eagle end up back on the endangered species list,. Everything I have read on this topic tells me that the people performing these rituals, have a lot of respect for Bald Eagles. In fact, from what I can tell, their respect for the birds is the very reason they use them in their rituals. I would have to believe that the people who are using the birds in rituals, probably don’t want to have them end up on the endangered species list again, it would just end up shutting off their eagle supply.

Some of the posts here would lead us to believe that the government is favoring the Native Americans with this decision. Even if you see it this way, who was being favored when the eagle protection acts were put in place back in the 40’s (Bald Eagles were not put on the endangered species list until the late 60’s, early 70’s)? Be carful, before you say that the laws favored the eagles, think about all of the other hunting that goes on in this country. Should we put laws in place to favor, turkeys, deer, fish (can you say peta)? Again, if I am remembering my history correctly, there were around 100,000 Bald Eagles killed, in Alaska, from around 1920 through 19550. The fisherman’s fear was that the eagles were a threat to the salmon population. My guess is that no one was in Alaska, protesting!

So, the way I see it is, now that Bald Eagles are off of the endangered species list, why shouldn’t permits be given to the Arapaho people, giving them the ability to do what was taken away from them back in the 40’s? And don’t say, “well they are being killed needlessly”, because there are a lot of people who would say that all sorts of animals are needlessly being killed all the time. Do you think Donald Trump’s sons ate the elephant they recently shot in Zimbabwe? Don’t get me wrong here, I am just using this to make the point! If hunting elephants in Zimbabwe is your thing, go for it!

The great thing about this country is that you have the right to disagree with me, or any other person in this country. But, we shouldn’t be hammering on the Native American people (in this case the Arapaho people) for celebrating, and using the new law. They weren’t the ones who passed it, they just lobbied for it, and were able to get the right people to hear them.. If you don’t agree with the law, don’t spend your time complaining about it, use your energy to get people to send letters to congress. Sign petitions! Get your views heard. If people in the government don’t listen to you, let them know you will vote for someone else in the next election. This is the United States Of America! You have the right to stand up for what you believe in! Its kind of ironic, the very thing that we see the Bald Eagle standing for, in this country, allows laws like this to be passed. Everyone has to agree, this is a great country! And if you don’t agree, you have that right too! Hey, and we all have the right to leave this country as well!

MAN, this is a GREAT country!

I agree with you mostly… But by the same token and using your logic… if my “ancestors” could harvest game/fish without bag limits, did I get hoodwinked somewhere along the way ? When I buy my license (another thing my “ancestors” did not have to do) they hand me a book with all kinds of rules and regualtions ? When did I give up my rights ??? Sounds like a double standard does it not ???

I’m not Catholic, but I sure like to observe the Friday night fish fry. Matter of fact the Lutheran religion came from the Catholic, just a arguement of religious philosophy. So during Lent, no red meat on Fridays right? Turn to fish, are Catholics denied a catch of fresh walleye tonight to go on tomorrows dinner table? If eagle tastes like turkey, everybody should be able to have one on the Thanksgiving table.

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I’m not Catholic, but I sure like to observe the Friday night fish fry. Matter of fact the Lutheran religion came from the Catholic, just a arguement of religious philosophy. So during Lent, no red meat on Fridays right? Turn to fish, are Catholics denied a catch of fresh walleye tonight to go on tomorrows dinner table? If eagle tastes like turkey, everybody should be able to have one on the Thanksgiving table.

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FINALLY!!!!!!! I SEE THE LIGHT!!!!!! CHOMPS SEE’S THE LIGHT!!!!!!

As a matter of fact, I’m heading to the local lake right now to catch me a couple dozen walleyes so I can feed my family some fish tomorrow to “celebrate” my religion and to create a sacrifice to MY CREATOR! Sure, I can eat bluegills or crappies, but I want WALLEYE!!! Just like the Indian can use a blackbird or sparrow, they want an EAGLE

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Again, if I am remembering my history correctly, there were around 100,000 Bald Eagles killed, in Alaska, from around 1920 through 19550.

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100,000 birds over the course of 17,630 years? That’s only 5.6 birds per year. That doesn’t seem like a whole lot.

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Again, if I am remembering my history correctly, there were around 100,000 Bald Eagles killed, in Alaska, from around 1920 through 19550.

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100,000 birds over the course of 17,630 years? That’s only 5.6 birds per year. That doesn’t seem like a whole lot.

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I am mostly amazed at his quoting Eagle numbers and facts… purely from memory…

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“Redskins” huh??
You guys might not agree with this eagle issue, spearing of fish, or netting of “your” Mille Lacs walleyes, but I sure as hell wouldn’t expect stupid racist terms to be tolerated here on IDO just as heated political arguments don’t get too far either. If you have a problem with the issues at hand there are much better and more adult-like ways to vent your frustrations. Not a knock on you Brett by any means but as a staff member I wouldn’t have expected that from you. I’m not chiming in here to debate the issue wether its right, wrong, a violation of your “rights”, native “rights”, or whatever other issues are at hand…Just don’t enjoy viewing reactionary posts flaming the fire of ignorance.

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sir; LM is not my lake and haven’t even fished in it. Ipersonally don’t think my posts are inflamitory nor are thy ignorant.

Big G:
Thank you for the comments on my post. As far as the double standard, you could be right. I would ask, somewhat tongue in cheek, did you try to get the laws changed allowing you to harvest unlimited walleye? Guess my point is, that it takes a lot of work to get laws like this changed. If you can get enough backing, from enough people, and get enough politicians to take notice, you might be able to get the law changed. I have no doubt that there was a lot of work done to get the politicians to go along with killing of eagles.. Even though I find it very hard to believe that killing Bald Eagles would be a winning platform to run on, some politicians somewhere, must have felt that the gain to them out weighed the loss (probably in the way of votes). So, find out who brought the law forward, and then who voted for it, and start a campaign to get them out of office.

As far as the dates, in the past I had to do some research on Bald Eagles, and what caused their numbers to decline. But that’s a different topic!

Ihprop1:
Yeah, 19550 give or take a few thousand years! lol

Nice to see a few refreshing posts on this subject
Drew H…I’m not here to bicker with you and your opinion. Although if you have never fished Mille Lacs before how do you know a certain race is ruining the fishing as you stated in a previous post? Just curious? I can speak from personal experience here and have had no problems catching walleyes on that lake, in fact the fishing seems to be pretty darn good in my humble opinion. Heck..I’d even be willing to let you hop in my boat out there some time if you’d like. Bet we could have a swell debate while catchin’ some fish!

First of all, I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my first post, on this thread. It was not my intention to do so! All I was doing is trying to make a point that we live in a great country. Yeah, some of the things in our political system, might be a little messed up, but there isn’t another country that I would rather live in. I have read many discussions on this board, even so, this was only my second post since I joined in 2009. So if I didn’t follow some etiquette rules, would someone please let me know?

The reason I am posting this is because I just received the following comment on the first post that I made on the other discussion:
” It appears that you would want to trespass on someone’s else launch. The reason: the inn and skiers don’t need all of launch area so you should reap from their labor. After reading your second post it appears that you are just a jerk off with an extreme psdo intelligence. Let me quote you “if you don.’t like what I said or what I am going to say get off this board and then get the f out of my country GOt IT”

I’ll skip the first two sentences! They are comments about my post on the other thread that I posted comments on, and I am still trying to understand the points being made. Its been a while since I made that post, so I might need to read the entire discussion to figure it out.

As far as the rest of the comments about my second post, here on this thread. I read through my post again, and I guess I could have worded the ending a little different. I am guessing that this person was referencing my statement “Everyone has to agree, this is a great country!”. Maybe they don’t like our country, and they thought that I was demanding that everyone must think that this is a great country. I was trying to get across that if you live in this country, and if you have been to, or even researched other countries, you would agree that the US is a great country. But, if you don’t think that this is a great country, you have the right to think that way too. We also have the right, or ability to move to just about any other country that we want to, if we so choose. I was not trying to be sarcastic, but as I read it again, I can see how someone might take it that way.

I just want to point out that Indians lived WITH the planet for along time before europeans ever set foot on American soil. When we came, we pushed them off their lands into places that we couldnt think of how to use. It was the white man that pushed the buffalo to near extinction. I think they should get what they want myself. We went to war with Hittler over pretty much the same thing over jews aas I recall. North fought South over equality and what not. Why does everyone feal so diffrently twords Indians? If we had modeled our “modern society” after their original one, the world would be a much better place.

Lots of opinions… In my opinion, when you fill out a form for anything in this country, there should be 2 boxes to check… AMERICAN and OTHER. Done.