Keystone pipeline

  • mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1275827

    First lets please keep politics out of this discussion and any comments strictly directed twards pros and cons of solving this topic. Theres Democrats and Republicans that both want this pipeline and the others on both sides that don’t.

    I Think its time to start forcing the price of oil products down and theres an opportunity to do it now. With the price of gasoline and diesel forcast to go to $4.00 and maybe even god forbid $5.00 I come from the thought that we need to do something now, because alot of people are struggling now. I can’t see running a pipeline through this country if were just temporarily going to benifit from it with jobs building it, and then the maintence jobs after its built. Ya its nice to have those temporary jobs and the ones after but is it worth it putting several states aquafers at risk, for those few long term jobs.

    The oil that would come through this pipeline is considered dirty oil but theres billions of barrels of it.

    Heres what I think and the only way Id say yes to building it. I’m for building it (only) if we benifit from it here in the United States directly other then those few long term jobs and the jobs that it creates from the actual construction.

    I say yes to building it only if atleast a %50 minimum is turned into diesel fuel, home heating oil and the other cheaper fuels that this oil can only make, and that percentage is kept here in the United States for us to use.

    Forceing down the world oil prices, and especilly ours here at home has to be done, there is no other way were going to get reasonable fuel prices, period. Opec sets the prices by supply and demand so thier countries can make maximum profit, at our expense. This fuel from this pipeline would be sold on the world market so there would be no benifits if the price wasen’t going to be forced down. The way I see it is if we kept that %50 and sold it here that would show Opec were not messing around and we took advantage of this pipelines oil because we don’t like thier and other countries prices. Everybody would benifit from the cheaper fuels here so why not. Nows our chance to say yes to the pipeline in a big way, otherwise all were doing is putting through a pipeline to benifit the Canadians and the (few) here that would benifit. Do we want to risk leaks and contaminate water in those states if we have nothing to gain but a few jobs. A few long term jobs isn’t worth the contamination aspect eigther, but a long term cheaper fuel supply is. If were going to put at risk other peoples water supply there ought to be something in it for everyone, and not just a few long term jobs and the Canadians profits. If we can benifit in a direct way I say yes, but for only a the short term jobs and a few long term jobs, putting other people water supply at risk, I say no as I don’t want to do that to them. I heard on television that the republican governer of Nebraska doesn’t even want it because of the Platte river aquafer. Theres got to be something in it for us for as long as the pipelines here. What do you say and please keep politics out of this. To me theres not enough benifits for us.

    weldon
    Rochester, Mn
    Posts: 304
    #1039547

    Keystone pipeline does not change the price of fuel in the US because fuel is priced relative to the world market. US imports 62% of its fuel consumption. This would just be another “import” displacing some amount of the oil from other sources.

    There is more production supply potential available today than demand and the cartels limit the production to manage the price.

    When have we ever seen a US company price crude lower to drive the US price down out of the goodness of their heart or alternately when have we seen sufficient volumes released to markets to force a lower price and see that the lower market price is sustained.

    Keystone would provide jobs for construction and maintenance. Canada wins either way with respect to the same number of jobs and production whether sold to US market or to China. Only down side is risk to environment to place pipelines through pristine wilderness vs across the plains of Canada and US.

    Simply put, Keystone is about jobs in the US and not about price of fuel.

    heavychevy
    prole, iowa (close to martinsdale)
    Posts: 190
    #1039554

    Well there are a few other things to consider as well. Im sure some where along the line it will cross someones home and with that eminent domain law they have to sell it or haveit taken from them. Second, who is going to absorp the cost of maintenance and other fees that will be associate with the project. 3rd, some of the places it goes through will be rather remote. How long would a possable leak go undetected and how would clean up crews get to it if a section of pipe was broken from say a earthquake or forest fire or what ever? Seems to be a very high amount of risk that will go with these temporary jobs.

    haasjj
    Cordova, IL
    Posts: 373
    #1039566

    I try to keep things simple.

    Which is risker:

    Another 2000 miles of pipeline or tankers coming from the other side of the world every day; from areas that aren’t exactly friendly to us.

    We have hundred of thousands of miles of pipeline already, include the keystone pipeline. Keystone XL is just an addition line (but obviously bigger). The Keystone pipeline already bring oil through either MN or the Dakotas on its way to refineries throughout the Midwest, so this isn’t anything new. There are obvious issues with pipelines, just like any other mode of transporting bulk chemicals.

    I’m sure the railroads appreciate that we aren’t doing this either. That’s how its moving right now.

    IMO, unfortunately the pipeline has become the posterchild for “dirty oil” and personally, I’d like to buy gas and send my money to Canada versus Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    Just my 2 cents!

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1039570

    Reading your replies I might not have been clear on my position. The only way id say yes to it crossing America is if we got to keep and sell %50 or the fuel here at a cheaper and a constant stable price. Crossing America just to please the Canadians and investors doesn’t even come close to justifying anything. The only way Id say yes is if we could sell %50 here to ease or stabelize future fuel costs. I heard this morning on Morning joe that Iran is going to cut off thier supply to Europe, whats that going to do to world prices, only an oppotunity to drive prices up. We have the power to make a deal like this and why should we pay out the nose because other parts of the world have problems and we don’t. if they want to do these things thats thier problem but I don’t see why we should have to pay for (thier) problems. Id say to the Canadians,,,ya we’ll let you build it but only if we can control %50 to help stabelize our side of the world, I for one am tired of paying through the nose because of other peoples problems and what they want to charge. I think its about time we set our own destiny and be able to control it.

    brad0383
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 354
    #1039572

    This will do nothing to oil prices in the US. The oil from the keystone pipeline will be going to China. The US will get nothing in return for it except for a few temp jobs. I agree if the oil was to be used in the US it would be a good thing.

    The oil prices in the US are a result of the US not keeping the oil companies in line. For example, all the oil that is coming from North Dakota is being trucked to Duluth and then shipped over to Great Britain where it is being stock piled. Does that really make sense? Sure doesn’t, but we can’t get in the way of oil profits.

    Ralph Wiggum
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts: 11764
    #1039580

    This thread is not what I was expecting. I thought it was about the fridge in my basement

    Joel Ballweg
    Sauk City, Wisconsin
    Posts: 3295
    #1039588

    There are already a bunch of Americans who have profited greatly from the attempt to put in the Keystone pipeline. And they stand to profit considerably more if it succeeds.

    They are of course our congressmen & women who have been pushing so hard to get this thru.

    You and I, we will never see any benefit to this pipeline what-so-ever.

    Sorry! I’m not trying to turn this into a political thread. However, the truth does need to be told.

    bigpike
    Posts: 6259
    #1039599

    I’d rather have Canada oil flow through the states rather then get sold to China. Canada will sell this oil if not thru the states then off to China. Seems pretty simple to me. Hate to minimize all the politics surrounding it but it boils down to a basic choice. Canada is our closest ally China is our biggest rival.

    been fishing
    Posts: 43
    #1039609

    alot of us would see benefits from this pipeline just look at all the jobs why help out china any more

    brad0383
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 354
    #1039612

    Quote:


    I’d rather have Canada oil flow through the states rather then get sold to China. Canada will sell this oil if not thru the states then off to China. Seems pretty simple to me. Hate to minimize all the politics surrounding it but it boils down to a basic choice. Canada is our closest ally China is our biggest rival.


    The purpose of the pipeline is to transfer the oil to Gulf of Mexico where it will be sold and shipped to China.

    hangartner
    fayette,iowa
    Posts: 171
    #1039622

    Quote:


    Quote:


    I’d rather have Canada oil flow through the states rather then get sold to China. Canada will sell this oil if not thru the states then off to China. Seems pretty simple to me. Hate to minimize all the politics surrounding it but it boils down to a basic choice. Canada is our closest ally China is our biggest rival.


    The purpose of the pipeline is to transfer the oil to Gulf of Mexico where it will be sold and shipped to China.


    Excuse me but the purpose is to get the oil to a REFINERY to be made into fuels we can use !!!!

    bigpike
    Posts: 6259
    #1039628

    Oil going thru the states equals jobs in the states even if the finished product gets sold to China

    fishbait
    Posts: 149
    #1039645

    One needs to answer who sets the price of crude oil and who does the price benefit the most? (Spectators) And who are they, the Unemployed, the poor, the low income, and the middle class? I think not. I think we need the Keystone pipe line for the jobs and to try to keep the oil in North America but $$$ talks and the finish product will go to who pays the highest $$.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1039656

    What a novel idea. A stimulus using private sector money costing us nothing. Better kill it. Only government in concert with unions using borrowed money and taxes can create jobs.

    :coffee

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13407
    #1039671

    Quote:


    There are already a bunch of Americans who have profited greatly from the attempt to put in the Keystone pipeline. And they stand to profit considerably more if it succeeds.

    They are of course our congressmen & women who have been pushing so hard to get this thru.

    You and I, we will never see any benefit to this pipeline what-so-ever.

    Sorry! I’m not trying to turn this into a political thread. However, the truth does need to be told.



    X2
    When we had the Gaurdian Pipeline was put through our neighborhood, we had smoke blown up our on how this would reduce the transportation costs and we would see a significant reduction in the cost of natural gas….. That reduction results in more profits, not a reduction of costs passed along to the consumer

    Willy D
    Nipawin, SK
    Posts: 209
    #1039672

    MDan,as one of THE CANADIANS I would like to say that don’t be a hater of the Country to the north.We are each others biggest allies and trading partners.Yes there are pros and cons to the project but that goes with anything.We CANADIANS are going to benifit as much as you are if this project goes ahead.The commnities on both side of the border will benefit greatly with jobs and business this will create.I am not for or against this project but let me tell you that Trans Canada Pipeline LTD is a publically traded company with I would say close to 50% if not more of foriegn ownership(ie US).This project will not do anything about oil prices because it is not set here on this side of the Atlantic.I would learn a litle more about the dirty oil rather than listening to a former Vice Pres and a senator from California.Maybe both countries should just worry about themselves and not each other.We should shut down all pipelines(natural gas and some water) at our border and stop all trading and we can each fend for ourselves.It pi**es me off to be refered to as THE CANADIANS when the decisions being made are way above my pay grade and like the decisions down there we elect people to make those decisions and hopefully they are well thought out and all things are looked at before going ahead even though there is always going to be opposition to those decisions.PLEASE do not lump all CANADIANS together because we all do not make the decisions.
    Yours Truly, THE CANADIAN
    (hard not to make it political when you think only about yourself and refer to me in that tone)

    ps
    I will be looking forward to my yearly trip to WI in April.My 10 yr old son drew a turkey permit.This will be his very first hunt and he is so excited that is all he talks about.I hope everybody that is coming up here this year fishing or hunting enjoys our country and has a great time.

    broadwaybob
    Janesville, WI
    Posts: 402
    #1039673

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Quote:


    I’d rather have Canada oil flow through the states rather then get sold to China. Canada will sell this oil if not thru the states then off to China. Seems pretty simple to me. Hate to minimize all the politics surrounding it but it boils down to a basic choice. Canada is our closest ally China is our biggest rival.


    The purpose of the pipeline is to transfer the oil to Gulf of Mexico where it will be sold and shipped to China.


    Excuse me but the purpose is to get the oil to a REFINERY to be made into fuels we can use !!!!


    What was our biggest exported item from the midwest and gulf? U.S. exports record amount of refined fuels in 2011 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/30/business/la-fi-fuel-exports-20111231 We won’t see any relief from this pipeline–don’t kid yourself. But we will pay for the risk to make others wealthy and temporary jobs (a spill is a “when” event, not an “if” event).

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1039674

    Does Canuck work then you hoser?

    Kidding.

    I love Canadians. I love hockey (thank you). Sometimes I feel closer in culture and identify with Canadians more than parts of America.

    rvvrrat
    The Sand Prairie
    Posts: 1840
    #1039676

    Quote:


    Sometimes I feel closer in culture and identify with Canadians more than parts of America.


    Sounds like a trade in the making. I’ll take Michael J. Fox straight up (well…the waitress at Wendy’s in Toronto or really any one will due).

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1039679

    Quote:


    Sounds like a trade in the making. I’ll take Michael J. Fox straight up (well…the waitress at Wendy’s in Toronto or really any one will due).


    I will absolutely wave my no-trade clause for that! I only hope I can settle near the Lockport Winnipeg area.

    bret_clark
    Sparta, WI
    Posts: 9362
    #1039680

    This is a picture of a campaign against the Keystone Pipeline in Texas. It makes me laugh at what people use to try and make others think it is the end of the world as they know it. When I read these it just makes me think…really, how stupid. I think Alaska is still thriving even with a pipeline.
    Someone should tell the one dude a lot of people shoot sand hill cranes and they are still thriving. I really crack up at the “do you want food to eat”..omg people. And the pipeline is going to destroy there water source, isn’t Texas looking for a way to get water shipped in as it is due to past droughts…lol
    As far as temporary jobs, tell that to the ones that the Alaska pipeline is still supporting. Maintenance is a full time job on a pipeline.

    Willy D
    Nipawin, SK
    Posts: 209
    #1039681

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Sounds like a trade in the making. I’ll take Michael J. Fox straight up (well…the waitress at Wendy’s in Toronto or really any one will due).


    I will absolutely wave my no-trade clause for that! I only hope I can settle near the Lockport Winnipeg area.


    You would enjoy the Nipawin,SK area better,monster walleye and pike right out your back door(Tobin Lake) not to mention the hunting for whitetail,elk,moose,bears and birds.As far as the trade we want Mike Fischer back because he has a hot wife.

    gary d
    cordova,il
    Posts: 1125
    #1039689

    I think the way to bring gas prices down is to back up the oil lines coming from where ever.The less we drive the more the gas prices will come down. Demand is what drive prices. If the U.S. slows down I believe it will not be shipped to other country. As I remember the U.S. did slow down on driving and the cost went down also. I believe it’s all a BIG money game. Something is going on because 3 years ago or so it was $1 and some cent. one world goverment.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1039691

    Quote:


    You would enjoy the Nipawin,SK area better,monster walleye and pike right out your back door(Tobin Lake) not to mention the hunting for whitetail,elk,moose,bears and birds.As far as the trade we want Mike Fischer back because he has a hot wife.


    Fischer is one of my favorite players. I don’t hunt. Not keen on walleye, but big pike gets me going.

    I said hope, but I’ll be happy anywhere.

    Bigboy65
    Posts: 10
    #1039728

    I don’t have a lot of time to comment on the Keystone situation. However, I am attaching a article that might shed a little light on the pipeline.

    One thing you need to understand is that the oil will still be transported, but it will go by rail instead. If you think a pipeline has a potential to leak, a rail car has to be at least 10 times more likely leak.

    GOOD READ: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=49036

    Always follow the money!

    DrewH
    s/w WI.
    Posts: 1404
    #1039747

    When this broke in the “news”, I thought that this was a great chance to get a job for an alot of unemployed. How, some where along the way the people who would benefit the most (people who need and want a job) are now have been buried for the sake of more important things as stated above and some more besides!

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1039750

    Home from work to eat. Pipelines are the best way to tranfer oil products and the safest way. There will be maintainence jobs and other permanent jobs to be had. I’m one of those guys downriver and from what I’ve heard from others in diffrent states is spills occure all the time. Has anyone heard anything about what happened to the Yellowstone river spill, just asking because I haven’t heard a thing, pro or con. The thing I’m concerned with is oil prices that we can give an alternative to, and to atleast try to do something about them.

    From what I’ve again heard is theres people livng around the deposits of oil sands that are drinking contaminated water because they have nowhere to go. I heard another thing about the construction of the pipeline and it has alot of safeguards and the latest technical build going into the safety of it, so there are alot of pluses.

    We have been useing less gasoline the past few years, thats why thier building in newer milage to newer cars, but I have to ask has the prices come down be3cause of the supposed supply and demand. There will be no lower demand because of the demand of the developing countries so the supply and demand formula doesn’t even come close to working. Beings the prices are set by the nations who sell the most, Opec and others, no matter how much we use thier profit margin will always be set to thier needs, which will be excessive. I’ve got nothing against Canada but for pure economic reasons why don’t they build a refinery on the pristien British Columbia coastline and ship thier oil there, because they don’t want the contaminates there. They would loose alot of thier fishing, crabbing and other industries if a major oil spill occured. They don’t want that area poluted so they want to ship it to our gulf coast, and its already polluted in extreem excess in alot of places.

    The whole gulf coast is so damn polluted you’d have to go there to see it and we don’t need anymore pollution here. I see an opprtunity here to try to force the price of oil down here in America and the %50 saved to ourselves is the way to do it. If something dosen’t happen were all going to be sitting here complaining about the high prices when we could have done something about it earlier. I could care less about the prices set by oil producing nations because they could care less about me and my family, so thats why I say try to start forceing oil prices down while we have a chance. Cheaper oil products is a better trade off for everybody instead of the jobs created by the pipeline. I’d rather have something thats benifits everybody instead of some. Socialist, I don’t think so when I’m looking out for my family and others instead of getting reamed. Anybody ever listen to TBoon Pickens and the amount of money thats going to be transfered overseas in the next 20 years in the oil industry, Its mind boggeling and a whole lot more then our nations debt. Think its bad now, wait 10 years and see whats its going to be like then, you won’t have to wait 20, its already been like that in Europe for 40 years, thats why they have been building smaller engined cars long befor we started. If we don’t do something now we might as well just bend over and ask them for how long because its going to happen.

    carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #1039758

    Quote:


    I Think its time to start forcing the price of oil products down and theres an opportunity to do it now. With the price of gasoline and diesel forcast to go to $4.00 and maybe even god forbid $5.00


    I’ve seen, read and heard from a number of sources that the Price of Gas in the U.S. will be well into the >$4.00/gallon by Memorial Day and likely go above the $5.00/gallon mark by mid-Summer.

    A Metro City official told me they are installing 2-new 50,000 underground bulk tanks and filling them a.s.a.p. as they are already paying above the $4.00 mark based on all of the futures trading and figures by filling by April they will recover the cost of the tanks by the end of the year.

    If the price does Skyrocket into the mid $4 to $5 range, you can bet our economy will hit the Skids and Unemployment rates will Skyrocket sending this Country into a Deep Recession.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think we should all get our butts back to work, Vote for building the Keystone XL pipeline to promote some jobs and enjoy some fishing. Remember to do your part and carpool, fill your extra seats and have a great summer of fishing.

    heavychevy
    prole, iowa (close to martinsdale)
    Posts: 190
    #1038617

    Here is my question. If they do get this pipeline through, is that going to be the end of it, or will there eventualy be pipes crossing all over the country? If they pressure us with the price of fuel and we cave this time, whats gonna keep them from repeating it again and again? 3 pipelines? 4? Not trying to sound like a conspiracy thearist, but we have to look at all the possabilities. Could be that this is a foot in the door for them. I can see both sides of the argument. Jobs on one hand, the enviromental impact for years to come in the other.

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