The Most ‘American Made’ Cars and Trucks

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Bret, I take full responsibility for this weekends’ weather. I didn’t schedule any work this weekend so I could take my daughters out fishing before I leave for CO. Just love it when a plan comes together

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If I invest my money for 10 years, and make 10% per year for the first 7 years, then lose 50% in the 8th year, then come back and make 10% again for the last 2 years, my average over 10 years equals what?

How much money do your really have?

What good was that 10% average?

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Joel here is an example…

$1,000 after 7 years at 10% return compounded reaches $1,942.72. Lose half the value at year 8 puts you back down to $971.36. Then two years $971.36 at 10% return compounded comes to $1,175.35 or 15% total return on the original $1,000 investment with no additional contributions. Sure beats sitting in all cash and losing dollar value to inflation. I’m no financial adviser but its tough to argue with these facts.

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So you made 17.5% (total) over 10 years of investing on a $1000.00 initial investment. And you think that’s good?

Your right, it’s hard to argue with those numbers.

It’s also hard to plan a retirement on that kind of income stream.

Your average annual return? Less than 2% per year.

To anybody who can listen with an open mind….

American manufacturers (whether it be auto or not) have made a mass exodus from our lands, either moving entire factories or outsourcing product, over the past couple decades. Why is that ? Is it because it is fun to build something in Mexico and have it shipped back ? Is it because the Japanese are cooler people I venture to guess it is because, they can produce the same product, for less money How is that ?

If we can all get back to the topic, my view from a somewhat “inside” perspective is this… the Auto manufacturers, along with the UAW, entered into contracts that were basically writing a blank check. The biggest problem they ran into, was healthcare. People had healthcare beneftis for life… people started living longer and healthcare costs did something nobody predicted… doubled and tripled in a decade. These are what they call “legacy” costs. Yeah, you try to figure out what something will cost you going forward, but nobody predicted healthcare spiraling like it did. This led to bigger sticker prices on American cars and parts, one thing leads to another and soon they are getting cheaper parts from Japan, built with non-union hands, all the while, losing the USA union jobs This went on for as long as it could and finally one day.. the scale “tipped” and foreign cars are now built here, by non-union labor. Wonder how they can make a living ?

G, one question on the healthcare for life. As much as retiree benefits are bought and sold – or renegotiated in current contracts – where does that cost savings get applied? As an example, my Father is a UAW member/retiree and his benefits were cut during a contract negotiation in an effort to save a few jobs and new hires. Now his benefits are through Tennessee Pipeline or Elpaso Corp. Either way, the union received a buy out and a cost savings should have been applied in some way, shape or form….

That I could not speak to Randy ? I could guess where it went …. but I won’t do that

I have enjoyed reading this. Good to see the Union guys pulling out the standard Union handbook responses. G, don’t forget about full or near-full pensions as part of that legacy cost. Why have most companies gone away from pensions? Because they are company killers. Look at some of the companies that have closed up or threaten to close up and move South (and South could just be Alabama, not Mexico). Polaris, Harley Davidson, Kohler, etc. Why? Combination of business taxes and the high cost of labor/labor benefits. And even though the Union guys for some odd reason think they somehow are more intelligent and skilled than a non-union guy, why wouldn’t you want to move your company South for the same quality of work but for less cost?

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I’d be willing to bet my left foot there isn’t a non-union company in this state that has employees that are as educated and well paid as our union contractors.

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I hope you can walk on one foot

Careful guys, before you know it someone will be filing a grievance. I use to love dealing with those in the open shop environment

Too much misinformation being put out as fact on this thread.
A UAW retiree loses nearly half his pension once he turns age 62. That will force him onto SS if he wants to maintain anywhere near his income level prior to age 62.
Health care for life is totally wrong.
Coverage drops at ages 62 and 65 respectfully when medicare and medicaid kick in.
When a retiree dies, his surviving spouse, if there is one, only gets half the pension of the retiree, and only gets health care for 6 months after date of death.
And even all of this is going away through contract negotiations in recent years. For example, the place I worked at no longer has “30 and out”. It no longer has “Free health care”. Plus a long list of other changes that most UAW plants will have in their contracts.
I’m not saying any of this is right or wrong.
Just trying to get some solid facts out there.
One other thing. I was a Steward for many years and one of my worst jobs was having to go to management to save the job of a person that did not deserve to be there. But I was bound by law to do so. Not a union rule or anything like that. It was the law. Management, if they wanted to push, could have gotten rid of the guy, but chose not to take it that far in most cases. Please don’t blame the union for doing what the laws dictate.
Things would go much smoother for both the union and management if they didn’t have to put up with this kind of employee.
Thanks for reading

Yes, we all get to hear about the Union concessions (that is the other statement out of the Union handbook) that have been made so maybe that is the benefits package today. Funny, I don’t remember the UAW holding a press conference to let the public know about the jobs bank program. I suppose when the company is driven to bankruptcy some changes need to be made.

Anyway, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist (I wonder if they are in Unions since they are so smart) to know that the retiree benefits (healthcare and pensions) is a huge fixed cost issue for the Big 2 that foreign automakers (besides Fiat) don’t have. Makes it much harder to compete when you have to bake those expenses into the cost of a car.

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I was a Steward for many years and one of my worst jobs was having to go to management to save the job of a person that did not deserve to be there. But I was bound by law to do so. Not a union rule or anything like that. It was the law. Management, if they wanted to push, could have gotten rid of the guy, but chose not to take it that far in most cases. Please don’t blame the union for doing what the laws dictate.
Things would go much smoother for both the union and management if they didn’t have to put up with this kind of employee.
Thanks for reading

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Herb

Please clairify for me what LAW requires a union Stewart or anyone else for that matter to try to save the job of a poor worker – I did not know there was such a LAW

I am done with this

I am going to leave my Union Job!

Right after I put in another hard days work, only 8 Hrs I hope, unless something comes up where I have to stay and earn overtime pay.

I am going to hop in my Union Made Truck,run down to the Credit Union,smile at the pretty lady behind the counter with my brite pearly whites that my Union pays for, collect some of that hard earned money, then head home to my humble Union Built abode.

I will then make my way to the frieldy nieghborhood watering hole,it is a place where you don’t have defend your way of living, we all get along no matter what each others occupation may be.

And hopefully If the lord allows me to see another Sunday, I will be able to sit at home with the FW and count all our money.

Are there any finacial advisors out there who could tell me if my Union Dues are Tax deductible?

Have a nice weekend all!!! Brought to you by Union labor

Could you do any of the above without your Union ? I do….. If you can, then your in the 90% who do not need a union.

I will say, with the concessions nowadays, the Union is giving in, which for ALOT of American companies, is too little, too late, they are already gone (along with all your brothers jobs). And now that your union is giving away your “rights and benefits”… what makes them so attractive ? I am serious….

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Could you do any of the above without your Union ? I do….. If you can, then your in the 90% who do not need a union.

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I must say that this rambling is getting OLD!

yet you can’t help opening it up… admit it, you really LOVE it it’s like Crack….

Very true Tony. Nobody will change anyone else’ mind about this subject. That’s why I stayed out of the mix as long as I did.
And let me be the first to apologize to fishthumper for drifting off topic of his original thread.

After working on both sides of the fence( so to speak )and reading all of these post. I have not learned 1 flippin thing. Ziltch- Zero-Nothin-Nada Katada.

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Credit Union

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You forgot to add that you are eating some onions this weekend.

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Could you do any of the above without your Union ? I do….. If you can, then your in the 90% who do not need a union.

I will say, with the concessions nowadays, the Union is giving in, which for ALOT of American companies, is too little, too late, they are already gone (along with all your brothers jobs). And now that your union is giving away your “rights and benefits”… what makes them so attractive ? I am serious….

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I thought I Said I was done

It’s not as bad as you outsders think

Have a nice weekend G

I am done too…. enjoy yours as well Jeff

here i thought i could enjoy some friendly ribbing about chevy versus honda! lol. Theres good and bad on both sides of the fence in my opinion. If you get a batch of bad bait are you gonna quit fishing or argue that the fish are to snotty? No, your gonna tell your wife that they just werent biting today and be back at it tommorow. So how bout a few beers and we put the issue to bed shall we? in the end, what does it really matter?

most people here seem to think non-union workers are every bit as good as union workers. That makes me ask this- Why does every hospital job in this state go to union contractors? Why were the Gopher and Twins stadium built with union labor? Why do companies such as Honeywell and 3M use all union labor? I can tell you its not because its cheaper, its a quality issue.

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most people here seem to think non-union workers are every bit as good as union workers. That makes me ask this- Why does every hospital job in this state go to union contractors? Why were the Gopher and Twins stadium built with union labor? Why do companies such as Honeywell and 3M use all union labor? I can tell you its not because its cheaper, its a quality issue.

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Ummmm… I am gonna go out on a limb here….it’s political

Its political? That’s a very general statement. Maybe you could educate all of us why all these companies and entities are politicaly bound to use union labor

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that that statement was just another baseless statement with no real facts to back it up. I’ll bet my right foot nobody can provide any facts that would prove that statement. Its just not true

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most people here seem to think non-union workers are every bit as good as union workers. That makes me ask this- Why does every hospital job in this state go to union contractors? Why were the Gopher and Twins stadium built with union labor? Why do companies such as Honeywell and 3M use all union labor? I can tell you its not because its cheaper, its a quality issue.

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Reference your notes and facts on your statement please…. then I will think about mine. I will go out on a limb and say your under 25 years old … and Union….

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another baseless statement with no real facts to back it up. I’ll bet my right foot nobody can provide any facts that would prove that statement.

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Is it just me, or are there alot of lopped off feet laying around in this post….

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another baseless statement with no real facts to back it up. I’ll bet my right foot nobody can provide any facts that would prove that statement.

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Is it just me, or are there alot of lopped off feet laying around in this post….

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All I know is I am not anteing up any body parts.

Lets hope this thread dies to page 3 over the weekend.

here are some facts. The king plant in bayport was built with union labor. both stadiums were as well. St.Francis, Childrens, Regions, United, Wyoming, St.Cloud, the mayo clinic, hcmc, and Abbot are just a few hospitals that use union labor. When the University of Minnesota builds its brand new nanotechnology and bioscience buildings this summer you won’t see any non-union workers. Non union companies are all more than welcome to bid on these projects, but they never get the work. Its not political, its the chioce of the building owners/project managers to go with union contractors. Another fact-I don’t care if someone leans towards non-union views, but it is annoying when people bash unions without knowing any facts. Using old stereotypes and making general statements like “its political” without actually knowing anything about the subject is plain ignorance. So is putting a joker face on here and thinking your right just because your older. I’m over 25 by the way, and my feet are planted firmly on the ground