The Most ‘American Made’ Cars and Trucks

wait…

Chrysler still makes cars?

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I have never held any animosity towards non-union workers.

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I can’t think of a reason a union guy could have animosity towards a non-union American worker??? But thanks.

Actually, I am at work and my boss knows I go on IDO… he knows all his employees do it, it is nothing new… if you think you are “special” because you are at home on the internet, good for you. I am sure you are in the PDC working on saturday and sunday and not getting paid either, like I do here at the dealership Bringing up how somebodys child had brain cancer, has absolutley nothing to do with what is being discussed here, you need to re-read the posts…like somebody would be fired here, at a non-union setting, because he is sad his child has a tumor ??? Now setting aside your crassness, if you don’t think the legacy costs, the imports flooding the american market with “cheap” cars, built by Japanese who were not “unionized” in Japan in 1970 , had anything to do with Chrysler & GM going bankrupt, then the blinders are on too tight. There is a reason the Imports can build here and be competitive, using more american made parts than the big 3…. what do you think it is ? Magic beans or maybe workforce and legacy costs…. I am all ears…

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Great info… did it take into account the labor that goes into the design and engineering of said models ??? And where that is done ??? If you think the profits are being dispersed/spent here.. well I have a bridge for ya

And for the last question… drumroll please….legacy costs & Unions (check pricing, if you think they are cheaper)

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The uneducated and uninformed are always the first to point fingers.

Big G! Your wage and benifit package is on behalf of the unions. Thats a Fact

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Sterotyping is one of the lowest forms of Intelligence, which seem to be your only saving argument.

You walk smartly, hand in hand with ignorance on your right, and arrogance on your left.

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Set down the bottle…. you make no sense ? Hello ? Close the quote book… it should at least be relevant.

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And mostly, it comes down to this……
Jap cars are better than American. Not so much better engineering, just built better. Better engineering doesn’t mean longer life. Jap cars are built with higher standards.
Jap cars run longer. Get more miles out of them. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan didn’t get the reputation of 300,000 mile cars because of rumors, they got that reputation because they get 300,000 miles.

And of course, you hear of the oddity of a GM, Dodge, or Ford getting 200,000 miles out of a car. I even have a Suburban that has close to 275000 miles. And, Suburbans are noted for getting 300,000 miles.

But the 2005 Impala or Taurus cannot compete with the Camry or Accord. The Jap car will run longer.

Union or not, American or not…….Doesn’t matter. Toyota and Honda make the best products.

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well at least all your “facts” are backed up

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I’ve worked for Chrysler for almost 14 years. My father worked for them for 34 years. Not a dealership, the corporation. So you can imagine where I stand on this. I can tell you that there are people that I work with that one can consider lazy or bad apples. Just like in the rest of society, they usually take care of themselves by either not showing up to work or moving on to another job that’s easier etc. Do you really think that the Union wants these people in the Union? How does that further our job security?
Actually Big G, I work at the PDC that sends your dealership parts. I’m sure it wouldn’t take a week for you to figure out who’s the “lazy” ones. It’ll take about 15 minutes. But is that the guy that just got divorced and is depressed so his productivity has dropped. Or the guy that lost his daughter to a brain tumor? Should they be fired or their problems compounded because they are in the bottom 10% so to speak? I’ve seen both of these examples at my building. Eventually once you get all the “bad apples” weeded out, there is still going to be some one in the bottom 10% no matter how well they perform their job.
I was part of the local union committee for 5-6 years. There is language in our contract to get rid of these “bad apples” if management so chooses to use it. Yes the is a lot of bureaucracy to end up using it, but it does happen. 5-8 workers in Detroit got fired for drinking and pot smoking over break/lunch. They’re still out of work and should be.
To everyone blaming the UAW for Chrysler’s problems of late, let me just say when the UAW sits down at the bargaining table, Chrysler is sitting right there with them. They’ve got teams of lawyers and accountants figuring out what they can really afford to pay for wages. The rest of it is just pomp and posturing. Should corporations take in BILLIONS of dollars and not allow their own employees to share in the profits? That should be widespread but it isn’t. Why? Because it’s easier for the guy not getting them to bitchh and moan about the guy getting them, than it is to go after himself.
As for my dues being pizzed away, my $60 a month goes for making sure I have affordable healthcare, a clean and safe place to work and a LIVING wage. As for pulling the 10%er along at work, until you walk a mile in his shoes, you can’t point fingers.

Well this has gotten long winded as I suspected it would be.
Flame away!!!

Big G-
Do you work second shift? Because if you don’t, aren’t you supposed to be working and not at your computer responding to a fishing forum website? Must be work related…

And yes I’m at home. I work the second shift.

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I actually wanted to see if you were pissing away the $60 per month on union dues. I found it interesting that if you were to save this $60 a month in an investment vehicle making an 8% annual return would yield $201,442.35 after 40 years or $300,546.77 after 45 years. Pissed away? I’ll let you decide.

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well at least all your “facts” are backed up

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I didn’t see anyone stirring up the pot, so I thought I’d throw that in!

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I actually wanted to see if you were pissing away the $60 per month on union dues. I found it interesting that if you were to save this $60 a month in an investment vehicle making an 8% annual return would yield $201,442.35 after 40 years or $300,546.77 after 45 years. Pissed away? I’ll let you decide.

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I’m not into the union or non-union bashing.
But I am curious. Which investment tool can I put my money in that will guarantee I make 8% every year for 40 or 45 years cause that’s definitely where I’m going to stick a pile of money for the future.

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I actually wanted to see if you were pissing away the $60 per month on union dues. I found it interesting that if you were to save this $60 a month in an investment vehicle making an 8% annual return would yield $201,442.35 after 40 years or $300,546.77 after 45 years. Pissed away? I’ll let you decide.

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I’m not into the union or non-union bashing.

But I am curious. Which investment tool can I put my money in that will guarantee I make 8% every year for 40 or 45 years cause that’s definitely where I’m going to stick a pile of money for the future.

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Guarantee? Never said that but the average stock market return the last 25 years is 10.5% and for 20 years is 9.4%. Pretty good indicator considering the poor performance over the last decade. Last year was tougher but with the strong gold prices, bond returns, booming energy stocks, value stocks trading at discount prices makes a 10% return an easy target. It isn’t going to happen with money markets or without the assistance of a professional. There’s a reason Einstein called compound interest the 8th wonder of the world and the greatest mathematical discovery of all time.

“Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it … he who doesn’t … pays it.”
-Albert Einstein

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Great info… did it take into account the labor that goes into the design and engineering of said models ??? And where that is done ??? If you think the profits are being dispersed/spent here.. well I have a bridge for ya

And for the last question… drumroll please….legacy costs & Unions (check pricing, if you think they are cheaper)

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The uneducated and uninformed are always the first to point fingers.

Big G! Your wage and benifit package is on behalf of the unions. Thats a Fact

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Sterotyping is one of the lowest forms of Intelligence, which seem to be your only saving argument.

You walk smartly, hand in hand with ignorance on your right, and arrogance on your left.

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Set down the bottle…. you make no sense ? Hello ? Close the quote book… it should at least be relevant.

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If the quote fits wear it

Your pigeon holeing all union labor as lazy is the most ignorant thing you have ever posted.

And if you and I ever have the chance to meet, I would gladly buy you a drink and debate this with you.

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Guarantee? Never said that but the average stock market return the last 25 years is 10.5% and for 20 years is 9.4%. Pretty good indicator considering the poor performance over the last decade. Last year was tougher but with the strong gold prices, bond returns, booming energy stocks, value stocks trading at discount prices makes a 10% return an easy target. It isn’t going to happen with money markets or without the assistance of a professional. There’s a reason Einstein called compound interest the 8th wonder of the world and the greatest mathematical discovery of all time.

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Okay, now your sounding a lot like an “ex” financial advisor I used to have.
If I invest my money for 10 years, and make 10% per year for the first 7 years, then lose 50% in the 8th year, then come back and make 10% again for the last 2 years, my average over 10 years equals what?
How much money do your really have?

What good was that 10% average?

Worked for both Union and Non-Union emplopyers..both have pros and cons Union higher pay but sometimes the 10%lazy worker do take advantage but Union does protect and stand up for the hard worker..Non-Union takes advantage of the employee and doesn’t pay what your’re deserved .
Makes me think of when Toyota was inrotduced to Nascar..I did’nt agree bc of the name. My Own Opinion..

Ya Tony I know where your coming from because I was also a union Carpenter back in the mid 70’s. I remember our business agent saying at a meeting one time when a question was asked. One guy who was a known heavy partier asked why is it on some jobs I can’t leave the hall and work for some of the bigger jobs. The business agent said because you party all the time and come in late etc. He said if you want to quit all that I’ll send you to a downtown bridge right now, that was being built right then across the river. In other words the union hall sent out only the guys who weren’t a pain to the union hall and to the better builders.

I’ll tell you what, some of those old carpenters could bend a full piece of plywood any way you wanted it and do just about anything with a 2″ x 12″ and a framing square.

I remember one time an old union carpenter found a mistake in a weightload off of a blueprint. He called the companies forman over and told him about the mistake and they both got thier pencils and paper out and figured loads in this one span. I seen the forman walk off with the prints and everybody went home with a full days pay. Work started again the next day and this old carpenter saved this company a whole lot of money because they decided not to continue building from the prints the engineers drew up, plus he saved the engineers a huge amount of money. I guess the engineers were up all night redesigning this load because even the building dept, couldn’t see the flaw and they ok’ed the prints for the bridge to be built and issued the permit. There are also very good carpenters and alot of skilled craftsmen in other trades that are not union, but unions do have thier place. Don’t think so, go down south and try to work, you’ll be back up here in 6 months saying you couldn’t make a living doing the same work, I’ve seen it way to many times and experienced it myself. I guarantee if givin a chance most of the companys up north here would take advantage of any skilled tradesmen if givin a chance. Who put in place that weekends didn’t have to be worked and child labor laws, unions. Unions have thier place as long as they don’t bargain for too much or try to put a company under thier thumb. If all they want is a good wage and cost of living plus medical through group buying power, they have thier place. Maybe others should group together to buy thier medical and get a better deal because they probably would. Thats called skilled barganing power because those companies aren’t going to give it to you unless its done this way.

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Actually, I am at work and my boss knows I go on IDO… he knows all his employees do it, it is nothing new… if you think you are “special” because you are at home on the internet, good for you. I am sure you are in the PDC working on saturday and sunday and not getting paid either, like I do here at the dealership

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Wait a minute, so big G is complaining about lazy people, yet he’s playing on the computer along with his co-workers on Chrysler’s dime! At least the other guy who works for Chrysler is at home, posting to this thread on his own time and not Chrysler’s! After reading your words above big G, its hard to take you serious and your posts in this thread hold no weight

Jeff, show me anywhere, where I said all union workers are lazy ? I stand by 90% are hardworking people, whether they have a union or not, but are paying dues, so the roughly 10% lazy sluffs, can keep the same wages and benefits they have. Show me it ? I will drink that too

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Actually, I am at work and my boss knows I go on IDO… he knows all his employees do it, it is nothing new… if you think you are “special” because you are at home on the internet, good for you. I am sure you are in the PDC working on saturday and sunday and not getting paid either, like I do here at the dealership

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Wait a minute, so big G is complaining about lazy people, yet he’s playing on the computer along with his co-workers on Chrysler’s dime! At least the other guy who works for Chrysler is at home, posting to this thread on his own time and not Chrysler’s! After reading your words above big G, its hard to take you serious and your posts in this thread hold no weight

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Chrysler does not pay one dime of my salary and benefits…. I work for a dealership. Maybe go back a re-read what I wrote. Try to catch up and stay on topic… why Imports are more american made, than the big 3…. ok just seen, your a bass guy.. sorry. Your obvious inability to read, gives your comments zero weight….forget it, nothing will sink in.

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If I invest my money for 10 years, and make 10% per year for the first 7 years, then lose 50% in the 8th year, then come back and make 10% again for the last 2 years, my average over 10 years equals what?

How much money do your really have?

What good was that 10% average?

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Joel here is an example…

$1,000 after 7 years at 10% return compounded reaches $1,942.72. Lose half the value at year 8 puts you back down to $971.36. Then two years $971.36 at 10% return compounded comes to $1,175.35 or 15% total return on the original $1,000 investment with no additional contributions. Sure beats sitting in all cash and losing dollar value to inflation. I’m no financial adviser but its tough to argue with these facts.

Big G would you consider yourself in that 10% class or 90% class… I’m just asking?
I do agree with you on there being lazy people out there in the Unions I’ve seen it. It’s not fun when your working side by side with one and have done twice the work load….Lol !!
And he the “Lazy” guy is bringing home the same pay check.
Everyone on the crew sees this & knows who’s holding there own.
So if you don’t produce you move on, times are tough & your always replaceable.
But then again it does suck if there is that one person for whatever reason holding on to that job or same position, & taking advantage of what they can.

Obviously, without a union to “protect” me, if I was in the 10%, I do believe my boss would have gotten rid of me a long time ago. I take pride in my work and results. I manage a service dept, with 18 people who report to me. Somehow, I get my job done efficiently, make a higher than average profit for like sized stores and can pop in and out of IDO and other social sites, several times a day. In fact, in our business, we are encouraged to do ALOT of networking through social media… in fact, just thinking off hand, I know of at least 7 people from IDO, that have become my customer, as well as good friends. I also am an admin on our company FACEBOOK page… yep go there too during work

Chrysler does not pay one dime of my salary and benefits…. I work for a dealership. Maybe go back a re-read what I wrote.

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Oops! I screwed up . I tell you what big G, just insert your place of employment where I typed in Chrysler and hopefully that will clear things up for you Regardless, my point remains the same. It sounds like you and some of your co-workers fall into that “lazy ten percent” category at the “dealership” you work at. (yes, I know you’re not union).
Whew, its getting late, I better get to bed so I can dream of bass fishing and be rested up for a hard days work tomorrow. I look forward to reading more of your funny, weightless replies in this thread

everytime someone buys a honda or toyota my investment portfolio is happy.

Sounds good buddy, what you think of what I post.. really matters to me…

To really top it off… sometimes me and my boss (the owner) spend alot of time going through his trail cam cards, doing some pre-scouting…

I’ll put myself in the 10% and no union protection. Plus, I am on the computer all day.

to those of you who think unions protect the lazy %10- you probably don’t know anybody in a labor/building trade union. There is no language in anybody’s contract that protects anybody. If your on a building project and you are lazy you will be laid off and nobody is going to be there to try and get your job back. That’s the truth. To those who think unions are stealing money by making us pay dues. I’m a member of local 10 sheetal union. We pay 120 a month for dues. Our total package for pay is $59.93 /hr. Every month at the meetings they break down where every penny of that goes, there’s no surprises and the money is real easy to track. We make about $39/hr on the check, the rest pays retirement, health and welfare, market recovery {money given to smaller companies so they can bid work for cheaper to keep members working}and also pays to keep our school running so members can take additional classes with no out of pocket expense. I’d be willing to bet my left foot there isn’t a non-union company in this state that has employees that are as educated and well paid as our union contractors.

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to those of you who think unions protect the lazy %10- you probably don’t know anybody in a labor/building trade union. There is no language in anybody’s contract that protects anybody. If your on a building project and you are lazy you will be laid off and nobody is going to be there to try and get your job back. That’s the truth. To those who think unions are stealing money by making us pay dues. I’m a member of local 10 sheetal union. We pay 120 a month for dues. Our total package for pay is $59.93 /hr. Every month at the meetings they break down where every penny of that goes, there’s no surprises and the money is real easy to track. We make about $39/hr on the check, the rest pays retirement, health and welfare, market recovery {money given to smaller companies so they can bid work for cheaper to keep members working}and also pays to keep our school running so members can take additional classes with no out of pocket expense. I’d be willing to bet my left foot there isn’t a non-union company in this state that has employees that are as educated and well paid as our union contractors.

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Josh, don’t be so willing to forfeit your left foot. I don’t know what state your in, so I guess that’s a hollow bet your tossing out there. Glad to hear your compensated well, your union has open discussions on its finances, an investment is being made into your future – both financial and education In many cases, that’s not the norm for many locals around here.
But don’t be so quick to under estimate non union companies for providing better pay, better benefits, better education, and so on. Regardless of which side of the fence your on, there will be much better out there, and much worse. I had a previous employer that prided himself on having the best. Meaning the best in employees, attitude, work ethics, and everything that equated to retaining the best in the market to ultimately provide the best quality to our customers. In comparison to employment reports (which we all know can vary) we averaged 15 to 20% higher wages than our counterparts within the industry (our market place of S.E. WI). We ALL received a very generous portion of profit sharing. Our health benefits that had an average cost of about 1,300 per month per employee was paid by the company at 90%. Company vehicles were provided for our daily/weekly use with no taxable costs to us.(even though we took them home) Once a week he had lunch provided to all employees that was like sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner. Most often there was enough left overs that we had lunch provided for a few days.
When it came to education, nothing was spared. We were expected to seek out any continued education that would keep us at the “head-of-our-class”. Any/and all seminars, classes, demonstrations,… were 100% paid by the company and always on company time. In the rare cases of us going out of town, we received a comp package that was WAY over typical perdium rates as his way of saying thanks and understanding to our time away from our families.
When it came to vacation, personal days, & sick days there was really no reason to even track it. In addition to our allocated personal time, he very frequently “ordered” us to spend time with our families. During our lunches he made it a point to keep in touch with us on a personal level and understand what was happening in our lives. He would often pop in and tell me (anyone of us) “Hey, isn’t your kids off school tomorrow? Clear your calender and spend the day with them…” Or if we had a parent with health issues to take time off to attend doctor appointments with them.
Mark understood what it takes to have a company with the absolute best in employees that would go the extra ten miles. Personally, now as a business owner I can’t believe how much he gave for the risk he carried. But like he often said in the office “To have the best, you need to be the best”
I’m not looking to engage in the whizzing match of unions Vs. non-unions. Not worth the effort. Unions are great for those that need the group representation, and non union for those that want to succeed by their own merit.
Though, I have two union situations I face on a regular basis. After 30 years of my father working at Case Co. and contributing to the union for his retiree package….he found out the hard way that he (retirees) are just a commodity and their “benefits” have been bought/sold a few times and changes with every contract. He/They believed that their retirement was based on the perception they had of the existing contract. They had no clue that they were pawns in the bargaining procedures. Lastly is the cost I see from union companies bidding my projects. I’m all in favor of great wages and benefits, but when is the last time a home owner said “Sure, I’ll pay you the extra $15,000.00 to use all union contractors on building my home” It doesn’t happen! If your argument is that I use cut-rate non-union guys – your dead wrong! Most of the employees of the subcontractors I use make more money than me.

on the newer vehicles you might be right, but, i have a 78 chevy scotsdale that runs like a top, is easy to work on, and my wife and son are surrounded by steel in the event of an accident. it may use a little more gas, but the security and dependability is well worth it. In my opinion they stopped making good cars around 82-85

To all who care!

Nowhere; that I have seen on this website, has any union member started a post that trashed another man or womans occupation.

Every single buisness that has a union, or nonunion workforce, in the trades, or in the automotive field, or in the IT field, even in managment, have that 10%, who create 90%, of all those buisnesses employee problems.

So when you pigeonhole the entire entity of any particular group it just shows how ignorant that statement becomes.

I deal with all of the above, every single day of my life. I have a tremendous amount of respect for any person who pulls their own wieght; reguardless of what their occupation is, or if they are union or nonunion.

I have no respect for another person who can hind behind a keypad and show complete disresect for someone you have never met.

Oh yah…..the flippin’ wind is kicking up just in time for the weekend. Looks like there will be another battle on the ice tomorrow
Anyone else sick of the weekends turning to crap while at work the weather seems to be favorable

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I’m not into the union or non-union bashing.
But I am curious. Which investment tool can I put my money in that will guarantee I make 8% every year for 40 or 45 years cause that’s definitely where I’m going to stick a pile of money for the future.

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the market and real estate, the government told me those values never decline.