The Most ‘American Made’ Cars and Trucks

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Im not talking Republican vs. Democrat. Im talking working man vs. working man. The union is doing more bad than good. I have been on both sides, we in the trades need to meet in the middle. just my opinion.

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Huh? Where’s the battle here? I have no beef with union members. If they have a grudge against me, I don’t care.

The battle is between corporate and the union member. Similar in politics. There’s no meeting in the middle.

I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but man you people need to grow up!
White collar or blue collar,I’m pretty sure we all bust are asses everyday to put food on our tables & keep that shelter over our heads for our families.
But man this Union or Non-Union talk has to die.
People take offense to these threads.
Everyone here has the same thing in common staying afloat & to provide for our loved ones!

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job. As for all of us dumb rednecks that dont understand unions or how they work or milk you of money. Hell over here in WI our great governor showed how unions milk the public for thousands and thousands of dollars each year and he had the balls to make the union man pay part of his own way. Im all about buying american but not paying more for less

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I agree.

I have two good friends that are non-union electricians and while they don’t completely agree with how the union operates, they have always said that without unions, they would make no where near what they make now. Unions and the power they have, in my opinion, are there to protect (at least somewhat) against greedy corporations and greedy business owners. Does that power sometimes get abused? Yes. Are all corporations and business owners greedy? No. But the trend in America seems to be that corporate greed is flourishing. In the end, when unions are around, or at least have some leverage in an economy, the average, hard working American can make a decent wage that will keep up with the cost of living these days and hopefully be happy and proud for what they are doing. As far as lazy people go, they’re in every industry that is out there, union and non-union. Some of them are able to work their way up the ladder and do pretty well for themselves (and we all hate them for it too ), but lets face it, a lot of them don’t last long. I’ve been on a lot of jobs, most of them union, and the lazy workers don’t last long, sometimes not even a day.

Hopefully, when all the dust settles, American Pride will still be standing and we can all get along.

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Great info… did it take into account the labor that goes into the design and engineering of said models ??? And where that is done ??? If you think the profits are being dispersed/spent here.. well I have a bridge for ya

And for the last question… drumroll please….legacy costs & Unions (check pricing, if you think they are cheaper)

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The uneducated and uninformed are always the first to point fingers.

Big G! Your wage and benifit package is on behalf of the unions. Thats a Fact

Not to change the subject …….BUT……. Holy Crap Kooty that is a nice picture of a hugo Tom

I steer clear of these arguments because I am very pro union and very anti union. My dad started in the coal mines at 11 years old and was disabled at 45 with black lung. The unions came in and made a terrible situation much better. They served their purpose but then they became as corrupt as the owners they were fighting against. In many ways we have outgrown the unions but at the same time I know that even though I have never worked for a union that my wages and benefits are as high as they are because employers have to compete with the shops that pay unions wages to keep the best people. The whole car debate is a personal matter. I firmly believe that when you buy a “foreign car” you are sending a large share of the profits overseas and those people do not have our best interest at heart. My Dad to his dying day hated the British for the way they treated this country before the American revolution and called them GD Johnny Bulls. I guess it is part of my family tradition that part of the reason I will not own a Honda or a Toyota is I am still PO’ed from WWII. When Honda comes out with a model called the Pearl Harbor and Toyota has their Bataan Death March then maybe I will have at least a little respect for them but until then I will drive my Chevy and my Ford and I could care less what some paid for survey says. I love this country and I try to do what is best for it and as long as everyone does that maybe we can make it through the mess we are in right now.

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Great info… did it take into account the labor that goes into the design and engineering of said models ??? And where that is done ??? If you think the profits are being dispersed/spent here.. well I have a bridge for ya

And for the last question… drumroll please….legacy costs & Unions (check pricing, if you think they are cheaper)

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The uneducated and uninformed are always the first to point fingers.

Big G! Your wage and benifit package is on behalf of the unions. Thats a Fact

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This kind of thinking is EXACTLY what the UNION wants you to think !!!! (your a good union boy)

Please back up your “facts”….how do you figure ? Talk about uninformed & I want to hope you got some kind of education… but with your debating skills(throw stones when cornered) I doubt it… Because we sell a union product, does not help my benefits or paycheck… because I know what I am doing, do a good job and have a positive attitude, my boss likes to keep me around and pay me a couple times a month… I pay dues to no one but myself. Get off the teat and work for yourself and you might actually learn, you can have a job with good pay and benefits because your an asset to your company, not a union People should be paid what they are worth… not what the mafia has negotiated. If your worthless, well guess what ? If your desireable & an asset, you will have business knocking down your door trying to hire you.

I really get tired of the argument that we owe so much to the unions because of THEY are why we have benefits. They may have affected policy a long time ago, but I’d also be willing to bet unions were better run and more honest back then. I am not going to worship at the union alter when I work in a field that is not unionized and laws were past before I was born. I owe them nothing.

I am not anti-union, but I do have a negative perception of them. That is the unions fault, because they have not put themselves in a good light. The general perceptions, besides the ones already mentioned, are that they use thuggery and it is almost like a cult. I said perception, not reality. But when you have people who drone out the union talking points, its hard not to see them that way. Not to mention some of the biggest critics I have run into are union members.

I am also getting tired of the adjective society. You can’t hear the word corporate today without it being proceeded by greed. I suggest to people who think corporations are greedy that they better pull all their money out of 401ks and go invest in municipal bonds or risk being exposed as greedy by association.

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job. As for all of us dumb rednecks that dont understand unions or how they work or milk you of money. Hell over here in WI our great governor showed how unions milk the public for thousands and thousands of dollars each year and he had the balls to make the union man pay part of his own way. Im all about buying american but not paying more for less

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Keep in mind that in WI, it was the public section unions (to my knowledge the largest growing union segment in the US) not private unions that were affected.

It is very important to remember the difference as
Government workers, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers.

When you add into the equation that elected officials negotiate the contract, I think the conflict of interests are pretty clear merely by looking at who the elected official accepted money from to get elected in the first place.

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It is very important to remember the difference as
Government workers, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers.

When you add into the equation that elected officials negotiate the contract, I think the conflict of interests are pretty clear merely by looking at who the elected official accepted money from to get elected in the first place.

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Tru Dat. That is a good distinction to make.

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I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion, but man you people need to grow up!
White collar or blue collar,I’m pretty sure we all bust are asses everyday to put food on our tables & keep that shelter over our heads for our families.
But man this Union or Non-Union talk has to die.
People take offense to these threads.
Everyone here has the same thing in common staying afloat & to provide for our loved ones!

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I hate to say it but I believe (my opinion) that it is this bury you head in the sand mentality of most common people that has brought this country to the point we are at and will keep us there. To many people don’t discuss or think about issue’s around them. They rely on the government to take care of everything and believe they are doing the right things for the country – How has that been working out for us??? I believe that discussion which brings about thought is a good thing.

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I think the conflict of interests are pretty clear merely by looking at who the elected official accepted money from to get elected in the first place.

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Elected Official may accept money from Businesses but it’s not businesses that Vote the official into Office – It’s the PEOPLE – Those officials report only to the people – If they don’t do the job the way they are paid for ( the way PEOPLE want them to ) they don’t continue the job. I wish I could say the same about SOME union workers

I’ve never been in a union.

I work constantly with union work force’s and non-Union work force’s and the notion that private non-union workers are better, work harder and are more reliable is about as freaking dumb as it gets. My 25 years of experience says that while unions have there issues and yes a small minority of bad apples are protected unjustfully the biggest laziest unorganized people I’ve worked are by far non-union fly by nite’s …PERIOD.

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job.

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Big G do the union employees you work with know that you think this about them? Also I’d be curios to know there reaction if you walked out of your office and told them to there face they are lazy and couldn’t possibly hold a non-union job.

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Elected Official may accept money from Businesses but it’s not businesses that Vote the official into Office – It’s the PEOPLE – Those officials report only to the people – If they don’t do the job the way they are paid for ( the way PEOPLE want them to ) they don’t continue the job. I wish I could say the same about SOME union workers

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Playing devil’s advocate, don’t they really answer to the money?

Another whine I hear on radio is over Citizens United. A lot of it comes from union higher ups and union supporters. My answer to them is always, just who do corporations employ? Answer, people. Don’t those people deserve representation. They never complain that unions can pour money into campaigns.

Union do not employ anyone. Businesses/corporations employ people who belong to a union. Big Difference IMHO.

I feel unions are a personal decision. I am not going to change someones opinion on unions. You are either a believer or you are not. Not much middle ground. If you feel you get a better deal in a union, go for it. The only thing I ask if for people to look at your paycheck. See where your money is going. I think most would be shocked.

Much like religion, Don’t preach your values to me, and I will not preach mine to you.

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The only thing I ask if for people to look at your paycheck. See where your money is going. I think most would be shocked.

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And while you are at it, take a look at the taxes coming out too! I wish that we all had to pay at the end of the year, instead of a sneaky system of a little at a time on a pay stub no one looks at. I have a feeling the Federal budget and debt would be a lot smaller today.

Back on topic.
Ram Tough!

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Most people who complain about Unions are usually not smart enough or talented rneough to be accepted into them. Or better yet, just don’t understnd them.

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Or better yet, hard working, don’t care to give someone a cut of my check. And smart enough to negotiate for myself.
I guess I have never been a sheep

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I’ve never been in a union.

I work constantly with union work force’s and non-Union work force’s and the notion that private non-union workers are better, work harder and are more reliable is about as freaking dumb as it gets. My 25 years of experience says that while unions have there issues and yes a small minority of bad apples are protected unjustfully the biggest laziest unorganized people I’ve worked are by far non-union fly by nite’s …PERIOD.

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job.

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Big G do the union employees you work with know that you think this about them? Also I’d be curios to know there reaction if you walked out of your office and told them to there face they are lazy and couldn’t possibly hold a non-union job.

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I don’t work with any union employees ? Where did you get that from ? When I was in the union 91-94, I told my union rep & steward right to their face, that the union spends 90% of their time & money fighting for the lazy 10%… the other 90% did not need the union. They had no comeback…

Now for those who hire worthless employees, Pier… then come on her and complain about them, why are you keeping them or would you rehire them ? I know with a union, you would waste time and resources getting rid of them, because the union will fight to keep their dues, but what is protecting the worthless non-union worker now ? I am confused by your dilemma ? You agree with paying a sluff, the same as a superstar ?

Come on guys, Ram Tough!

I know cabin fever is setting in, but I hate to see us fight.

This is a fight You need to spend a night at my house pug

I thought you worked for Chrysler or whatever they are called now and might have union employee’s like some of the dealers do.

I work for a very large company and have to deal with both union and non-union employees. If thats to difficult to understand there’s nothing I can do for you on that.

I’m meeting with some union electricions later today maybe you can stop by and tell them to there face that they are useless and unemployable with-out the union?

On a side note Chrysler’s fledgling decades running problems are because of the unions?

Good one~hardy har har.

If I could watch them for a week, I would certainly tell the 90% that work hard, that they are pizzing away dues, to pull along the other 10%, who I could pin-point in about a week, no problem. If you read somewhere where I said all union employees are useless, please point that out to me, so I can “understand” you better

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job.

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That’s one helluva statement to make. I have been a Union Bricklayer for well over 30 years now. If you think that all Union workers are lazy, come work with me for a week and let me know what you think after that. I take great pride in my work.
When a contractor hires one of your guys and he doesn’t meet their standards, he get layed off. No ifs ans or buts about it. We want to give him the best we have.
I have never held any animosity towards non-union workers. Everybody desires to make a living. After all, this is the United States of America.
One other thing, I’m on the Contract Negotiation Committee. If you think that we get whatever we want, you are sadly mistaken.

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Totally Agree with G Unions protect the lazy man that probably couldn’t hold down a non union job.

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That’s one helluva statement to make. I have been a Union Bricklayer for well over 30 years now. If you think that all Union workers are lazy, come work with me for a week and let me know what you think after that. I take great pride in my work.
When a contractor hires one of your guys and he doesn’t meet their standards, he get layed off. No ifs ans or buts about it. We want to give him the best we have.
I have never held any animosity towards non-union workers. Everybody desires to make a living. After all, this is the United States of America.
One other thing, I’m on the Contract Negotiation Committee. If you think that we get whatever we want, you are sadly mistaken.

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Tony

Where in the Quote above do you see that anyone says that ALL union workers are lazy??? I think the statement was that Unions protect the Lazy workers – Are you saying that you have never witnessed this in any Union Job that you worked for? If so I know for sure that you have never worked for the auto or airline industries.

I’ve worked for Chrysler for almost 14 years. My father worked for them for 34 years. Not a dealership, the corporation. So you can imagine where I stand on this. I can tell you that there are people that I work with that one can consider lazy or bad apples. Just like in the rest of society, they usually take care of themselves by either not showing up to work or moving on to another job that’s easier etc. Do you really think that the Union wants these people in the Union? How does that further our job security?
Actually Big G, I work at the PDC that sends your dealership parts. I’m sure it wouldn’t take a week for you to figure out who’s the “lazy” ones. It’ll take about 15 minutes. But is that the guy that just got divorced and is depressed so his productivity has dropped. Or the guy that lost his daughter to a brain tumor? Should they be fired or their problems compounded because they are in the bottom 10% so to speak? I’ve seen both of these examples at my building. Eventually once you get all the “bad apples” weeded out, there is still going to be some one in the bottom 10% no matter how well they perform their job.
I was part of the local union committee for 5-6 years. There is language in our contract to get rid of these “bad apples” if management so chooses to use it. Yes the is a lot of bureaucracy to end up using it, but it does happen. 5-8 workers in Detroit got fired for drinking and pot smoking over break/lunch. They’re still out of work and should be.
To everyone blaming the UAW for Chrysler’s problems of late, let me just say when the UAW sits down at the bargaining table, Chrysler is sitting right there with them. They’ve got teams of lawyers and accountants figuring out what they can really afford to pay for wages. The rest of it is just pomp and posturing. Should corporations take in BILLIONS of dollars and not allow their own employees to share in the profits? That should be widespread but it isn’t. Why? Because it’s easier for the guy not getting them to bitchh and moan about the guy getting them, than it is to go after himself.
As for my dues being pizzed away, my $60 a month goes for making sure I have affordable healthcare, a clean and safe place to work and a LIVING wage. As for pulling the 10%er along at work, until you walk a mile in his shoes, you can’t point fingers.

Well this has gotten long winded as I suspected it would be.
Flame away!!!

Big G-
Do you work second shift? Because if you don’t, aren’t you supposed to be working and not at your computer responding to a fishing forum website? Must be work related…

And yes I’m at home. I work the second shift.

Love my American made Tundra too!

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Great info… did it take into account the labor that goes into the design and engineering of said models ??? And where that is done ??? If you think the profits are being dispersed/spent here.. well I have a bridge for ya

And for the last question… drumroll please….legacy costs & Unions (check pricing, if you think they are cheaper)

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The uneducated and uninformed are always the first to point fingers.

Big G! Your wage and benifit package is on behalf of the unions. Thats a Fact

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Sterotyping is one of the lowest forms of Intelligence, which seem to be your only saving argument.

You walk smartly, hand in hand with ignorance on your right, and arrogance on your left.

And mostly, it comes down to this……
Jap cars are better than American. Not so much better engineering, just built better. Better engineering doesn’t mean longer life. Jap cars are built with higher standards.
Jap cars run longer. Get more miles out of them. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan didn’t get the reputation of 300,000 mile cars because of rumors, they got that reputation because they get 300,000 miles.

And of course, you hear of the oddity of a GM, Dodge, or Ford getting 200,000 miles out of a car. I even have a Suburban that has close to 275000 miles. And, Suburbans are noted for getting 300,000 miles.

But the 2005 Impala or Taurus cannot compete with the Camry or Accord. The Jap car will run longer.

Union or not, American or not…….Doesn’t matter. Toyota and Honda make the best products.