Boat and Motor Over Kill??

I have been thinking about this for sometime. This is a great site and I appreciate it. I do not want to offend anyone with this topic. When I read, for example, that someone wants to know if his boat will do 50 mph. with his motor choice, or I see huge boat rigs on pool 4, 5, or 5a, I wonder why? I am a 65 year old fisherman who has fished all of my life(thanks to my dad). I started out for river and lake fishing with a 6 h.p. Johnson. I graduated to an eithteen Evinrude. Then I got a 14 Lund to go with my motor. Next came a 16 foot Yukon with a 40 Evinrude. Then it was a 16 foot Starcraft Super Sport with an Evinrude 70. The gas scare of the 70’s brought me down to a 16 foot AlumaCraft with a 35 Evinrude. Follow that with a 16 foot Lund with a 40 Evinrude. Then a 16 foot Alumacraft with a 60 Merc and now a 18 foot Alumacraft with a 90 four stroke Merc. Wow, now I am surrounded on the river and lakes with numerous 150 to 200 plus rigs. I am thinking that after I get done with going up north on the big lakes maybe I should go back to a 16 foot boat with a 40 or less motor to fish the river. I realize that for safety and comfort in fishing lakes and rivers that you should get the biggest, widest, and deepest boat you can get. However, when is too big, overkill? In particular I have two friends who do a real number on me with catching results that have small rigs. Does this ring a bell with any of you?

Its a matter of prefrence.I used to run a 75 horse tiller and miss the good milage,with that boat and moter I could go about 34mph with was suffeint for fishing.Now with my bigger faster bass boat, getting there is half the fun.I used to fish with an old timer that kept stepping up to bigger boats to help from gettig beat up on the water.Rarly did he go over 15 mph, he beleived if he would have ran larger boats for 60 years he was angling he would be in better shape now

I asked myself that same questiun when I was at the credit union today asking for a loan to buy a boat half my annual salary.

But the answer is …Is because we can!!!

Isn’t America great

I can relate to everything you have said. Here is my take on it.

Were Americans. Were greedy, and we like material things. I’m no different and I’m proud of it. My grandfather helped ensure that freedom for me and many others like me.

I also started out with no more than a borrowed 12′ jon boat, then started sneaking my dads “big” 14 footer!

Wasn’t long and I scrounged up an old Martin 6 HP motor that ran close to 10 minutes at a crack before over heating.

Now I use an older, but still nice, Lund 1700 Pro V with a 60 tiller. I love it. It is all I need and more. But it is also going to be sent to storage for my sone next year and replaced with a bigger boat.

You mentioned some folks that seem to outfish you in their little basic rigs. I hear that. There were time on pool 5 I thought I’d need another boat to haul my catch out in. Just something about those days that in that boat that seemed magic.

Same as ice fishing for me. With all my fancy gear and electronics I still don’t have the success I did sitting on a pail with an old coffee can of charcoal for heat and a wrap up rod.

I will respond to that . It also depends on where, when and how much time you have to fish. If you work 6 days a week and have precious hours to spend on the water you need to cover a lot of water to get to your favorite spots that may be miles apart on a large body like Pepin, you need to be able to cover water pretty quick. If you fish smaller lakes and rivers and have the time you don’t need to go 50 mph.
There is also the problem of being 7 or 8 miles rom the landing and the sudden Tstorm flares up fast. On Millelacs you could be in trouble in a smaller low powered boat. As long as you boat safely, its up to the individual in my eyes.

I would agree and add to what Tom says… I think it also matters what type of angler you are. If you fish tournaments, you’re going to want speed and lots of it to get to that honey hole first and be able to move quickly (now some guys I know think they’re in a tournament even when they’re not). If your a recreational angler and you don’t need to travel great distances on the water, you probably don’t need all that speed. The other probability is that big boys like their fast toys, on land or water…

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There is also the problem of being 7 or 8 miles rom the landing and the sudden Tstorm flares up fast.

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I agree with Tom. I was caught in a storm with my Daughter and Grandson on Fish Hook (Park Rapids). I had a 14 1/2 ft with a 35 Evenrude. We just barely made it. Trees where blown over at the resort. If I had a 50 MPH boat I would have been back in a minute. This was a very small lake compared to Millelacs. I say if you fish both large lakes and rivers and only have one boat, get the biggest boat and motor that you can afford. I’m just a young pup at 59 though.

I started out with a 3 hp Johnson and a rented boat from Hub’s in Hastings. 30 minutes to Prescot and 45 minutes back. Don’t forget the gas can, the tank in the motor didn’t hold much!

Once I was sure there was food on the table for the wife and kid, I moved to a 14 footer (with bench seats) and a 6 horse Keikenhafer (sp?) I fished with my dad in that for years. On Winni, we never made it out of Third River or Cutfoot Souix.

Dad’s back was giving him problems and we both thought our trips together were coming to an end.

My wife and I stayed at a resort on Crane lake a few years back. The owner just happened to tell me his boats were for sale…every year. I was talking to my wife that if we were to buy the Lund 16 foot Rebel with a Merc 30 or was it 35 tiller, I would be able to get a few more years out of Dad.
She looked at the boats, then came back and said, “If you are going to buy a boat, get the Anger SS 17′ with the 90 Merc”. “This way we can go someplace on the river.” Since I don’t like to argue with my wife, it was a done deal.
No more sore backs after 4 hours for me, it was less for dad.

I know my boat isn’t in the same catagory as the 150’s ect. But I feel if you want take you wife for a ride…which is really what she wants on the river, it’s too small. Even on Winni, from Cutfoot to 3rd river it’s a 20 to 30 minute boat ride. On the other had, for the lakes around the area that I grew up, the 90 is too big.

So, I guess I’m saying that we moved to a bigger boat for comfort and as far as speed and trolling…there are many times I wish my boat would go faster and a few times it would go slower….But in the end…Dad’s still fishing with me, I’m a happy man

PS For the last two years my wife has been “nudging” me to trade up to a 19′ ProV. But then, she has more money than I do!

StaleMackeral-

I have thought about this as well, and I agree with you. Before I start my rant, let me say that I am just as guilty as anyone else of having a bigger boat than I need, with a bigger motor than I need. I have decided to go to a smaller boat and motor next year for that reason. I see the reason for this as being what someone else posted, Because we’re Americans, we’re greedy, and we’re materialistic. I however, am not proud of that. We have 5% of the worlds population, yet we use a much larger fraction of the worlds natural resources. We complain because gas is getting so expensive, yet we pay less than half of what the world average is for a gallon of gas. Yes, it is our right, but I don’t think that my immediate family members who have fought and been shot in wars from WWII to Iraq 2004 did it so we could be greedy and materialistic, they did it so we could be free. Along with freedom comes a great responsibility, and many of us are very quick to say that it’s our right, but we also are very quick to shy away from taking responsibility for these kinds of things. We will, however, be forced to experience some real changes over the next century, according to a World Geographical survey, there is approximately 35 years of fuel oil left in the ground if consumption rates stay the same as they are now. Considering that the world population continues to increase, as well as demand, you can figure that in less than 35 years we will experience the full effect of our “American right to consume as much as we feel like” to it’s fullest effect. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t really care what other countries think of our attitudes, I am conscious however, of whether or not what we are doing is right, and in this case, we need a change of attitude. Like I said, I am as guilty as anyone who is reading this, so I am as much a part of the problem as anyone, but I think it’s time for a change of attitude about our responsibilities to future generations. If anyone thinks that we can continue doing whatever we want, without responsibility, because it’s our right as Americans, keep in mind that all great civilizations who developed that mentality have fallen shortly after, one of the best examples being the fall of Rome. Of course there are instances where having a bigger boat or motor is a good thing, fishing bigger waters, etc, that’s not what I am getting at, the point of my rant is an overall discontent with myself and others who have lived by the “it doesn’t matter what the consequences are to the future, as long is it’s legal, it’s my god-given right, and nobody can tell me not to” And yes, I have caught more fish in my life out of the 12 foot aluminum boat I had with a 5 hp outboard, than any other boat I have fished out of since.

By the way, I’m not a crazy fanatic, it just sounds like it today.

In a perfect world that all makes sense. But were not in a perfect world, sadly.

People by nature are materialistic. Some feel that having a big boat, hot rod, or all kinds of other toys is being materialistic. Seems logical. But I disagree. Those people are simply successful. Most times I have found these types of people very willing to share their toys with friends.

To me materialism happens more to those who cannot afford frivilous items. When they do get something special they tend to fiendishly protect it. Imagine breaking your best china, or finaly getting the money for that G-Loomis only to have someone snap it in half. The average person would flip out.

But for the folks that made different choices and can afford that gear more easily simply replace it. For me, I’d freak out, then replace it. Unfortunatly I’m still materialistic. But it is my right, and my choice.

Not for a second will I apoligize for being an American. I won’t apoligize for likeing and owning things others cannot afford. I’m not even going to apologize for using up as much gas as I have.

Buying stuff is good for our economy. When people cut back on buying stuff it affects all of our paychecks. Heck look at your earnings from last year and most will see that. Not that anyone has to be compulsive.

I don’t know where the heck I’m trying to go with all this. Sorry to drag everyone down this road. But one thing is for certain. I need to fish. And so does everyone else.

I agree, my point was basicly that along with all of the benefits of being an American, and the privelages we enjoy, also comes a great responsibility, and most of us don’t want to accept that, we simply want to enjoy whatever we can have and use, without responsibility, “because it’s our right”. Yes, I do enjoy things that others can’t afford, and no, I don’t want to give up everything I have and move to India to starve to death or die from a disease, my point is simply that we need to realize the impact that we have on things in this world. As far as the economy goes, and ways to improve it, that is another entirely seperate political rant that I definately don’t want to instigate, anyway, thanks to James for the great site, I don’t know of another place where this could be discussed without tempers flying, posts being deleted, and grudges being held, the maturity level of people posting here is better than any other site I have seen, and you’re right, I definately need to be fishing, I obviously have too much time to sit in front of this stupid computer.

Your 100% correct on all points. That is the greatest thing about being an American. We can rant at night on here, and shake hands in the morning when we chase the ‘eyes around the river.

I take offense when I hear that Americans are greedy and materialistic. I am neither. I don’t base my self worth on how many toys I have and my life is not based on how much money I can make. I made choices in my life that allow me to do most of the things I want and work my tail off in order to do them. I too have had relatives and friends serve this great country. It was only a 2 years ago I went to my uncle who served in Vietnam and told him “Thank you for doing what you did back than. It’s guys like you that allow me freedom to do the things I do.”

I fish in quite few tourneys each year and because of this I upgraded to the 20 footer. I have this rig because I feel it’s the best tool for what I plan to use it for. Granted I could get by with less and have in the past. If you were to try and get me to go back to less. I would have to respectfully decline. There is no comparison between the 17 footer I ran 2 years ago and the 20 footer I run today. If people ask me to compare I tell them I can’t . How do you compare apple to oranges. The comfort of the 20 footer is leaps and bounds above the 17. Imagine trying to run from the Gap where the Rainey River dumps into the south end lake of the woods to the Garden Island near the northwest angle in legitimate 7 to 8 footers(easily 14 to 16 feet peak to valley and more on a few occasions) in a 14 foot boat. Granted most people wouldn’t do this but these were the conditions that faced us in the 2002 MTT champs. With my old 17 I ran as far as the 12 footer which is about the half way mark. I was pushing hard to get there and it took an hour and a half to do so. Needless to say the nerves where a little frazzled by the end of the day. Last year conditions weren’t quite as bad only 6 footers and I was able to cover twice the distance in the same amount of time and not have to push nearly as hard. The boat never blinked an eye. I know of one person who is upgrading his 19 footer to a 20 after seeing me cruise by him with ease.

Safety and comfort are the 2 main reason behind the purchase of this rig. I did not feel safe in my old boat in those conditions. I knew being a tournament angler I would most likely see those conditions again. Also my partner/brother has psoriatic arthritis. Basically he has arthritis in every joint in his body. If I didn’t purchase this boat I don’t know how long I would be able to chase my dream with my brother by my side. Obviously not everyone is in the same situation I’m in but I feel it’s wrong to place judgment on people just because they drive a big boat with a big motor ( just a general statement not directed at any one in particular)

Paul your right. But think about it from another angle. Everything you just described would look very “materialistic” to a person from a third world country.

Everything you just described is a non essential activity for survival. Were all talking about our boats, tourny fishing, 15 footers versus 20 footers, and so on.

People in other parts are worried about finding food for their families breakfast, or to have some medication.

So even after all that you have proven that as an American, we are still greedy and materialistic. Not by our standards, but by theirs. For the record, I agree with our standards, and hope they can find a way to bring theirs up to par.

In my opinion, If you look at most 3rd world countries the reason they are still uneducated, starving, lacking basic medical needs is because of the greed and materialistic leaders they have in place. Iraq is a perfect example of what I speak of. A ruthless dictator ruling with an Iron fist in order to keep the wealth of a whole nation to himself and his cronies. I feel bad for the people that live under these brutal dictators but what are we as Americans to do about it? As you can see in Iraq, When we do try and help we are met with nothing but resistance and ignorance from the vary people were are trying to help. Why? Basically just because we are Americans, the Infidel. It’s this type of ignorance that has been taught to the people these 3rd world countries and this type of ignorance that keeps them where they are. Am I to fault because the leader of North Korea uses the Diary of Ann Frank to teach hatred for all Americans in lessons taught to school children. In these same lessons they call Ann Frank weak and teach there children to stand up to the Nazis Americans. All the while he takes whatever the country has for monetary value and uses it for person benefit and to build a war machine to stop the inevitable invasion of the Nazis Americans. When Americans do try to help the starving people of countries like this. Most of the money, food, and medicine is usually confiscated to be used for Military purposes. America is the greatest country in the world. I do not see why I should be made to feel guilty because of the lack of compassion the leaders of these 3rd world countries show their own people.

Thanks for the great discussion guys, I’ll be logging off to try to fix my stupid trolling motor so I can get back on the water where I belong.

By the way, anybody want to trade a working minnkota for a broken motorguide?

I have to agree with Paul. I work very long hard hours in order to do what I want with my time. I like to have the toys to help me relax from what I do for a living. I appreciate all that our founding fathers and vets have done to make this country the greatest country on earth. Am I selfish because I have a big boat, and a big truck to pull it with? Am I leaving a legacy of greed and waste to our children because of this? Absolutely not. I’m selfish with my time, and my kid’s time with me. I use this boat and this truck to spend quality time with my family. We spend a lot of our disposable income doing this. Am I greedy because I want to do this, or better yet, because I CAN do this? NO. I’m simply taking advantage of the gifts that the good lord gave me. I’ve been fortunate to have been born in the USA. I am not at fault for that. For me to not take advantage of that fact doesn’t indicate greed, or selfishness on my part.
I pay taxes as my part. That is the way that I look at it. I’m taxed to death. I don’t know how taxes work in 3rd world countries, but I have to assume they don’t pay as much, or any. In this regard, I am ignorant of the situation. But for my part, I see it as I pay my taxes, I vote in every election to make sure that the people who want to be in public service are in line with my feelings. That’s the beauty of a democracy.
So, to sum it up, I need my 19’1″ Ranger with a 150hp Johnson on the back of it. I need my Chevy Tahoe to pull it. I feel that I’m doing my fair share by raising good responsible kids, and participating in the democracy that has enabled the USA to be the greatest country in the world.

You guys are all correct with your points, to a degree.

However I look at it in this perspective………..

Remember when Bass Pro Shops came out with their catalog? WOW!!!!!!!!!! Look at all the gizmos-gadgets that a fisherman could buy!!!!!!! Didn’t really need it though. Then Cabela’s and Gander Mountain came out with their books.

Back then, an 18′ boat, with a 125 was a truely BIG RIG. Something only Mille Lacs or LOTW fisherman would only possibly need.

People “fished” back then. It was simple……..14 foot boat, with an old motor, and simple flasher, if you were hi-tech. You went to lakes or rivers, where you could catch fish, only because you knew the lake and had a specific spot eyed up on the shorelines. “Your secret spot”

Today……….

All I can say is what the heck happened???? Have you just sat back and looked at the tackle racks at Gander Mountain? Where the heck do you begin????!!!!???? How many rods does it take? How many rapalas do you really have to have???? Jeeeeezzzzzzzz, Cabela’s has to have 2 spring catalogs and 2 fall catalogs just to pack all their crap in there!!!!!!!!

What happened to the bobber and hook? How about the simple old fashioned lindy rig. Next to the plain jig, still one of the all time producers of walleyes!!!!!! Think about it………Jigs and Rigs are really all it takes to catch these silly fish!!!!!!!!! But, nope, got to have all that junk, because someone said to buy it, or you saw someone with it and you didn’t have it and they caught more fish than you!

Today’s “fishing” has become a sport for the “rich”. If you don’t have the $30k rig, $200 rods, $1000 electronics (don’t forget the pretty cloths and the matching $300 rainsuits, that you see people in the boat with) you ain’t $#!+.

I don’t how it happened, but what did happen was fishing has become crazy!!!!!! And we are all guilty of it!!!!

My dad of 79 years, still looks at me goofy, when I put the front and back trolling motors and front and back locators on a 14 foot lund. We catch fish, but he still thinks it is rediculous.

Now, if you are a guide or a tournament fisherman, where this is a source of your income. YES, you should have it. As said previously, Number 1 is safety reasons. Number 2 is comfort, and finally, number 3……Feed your clients with fish!

But how many regular “Joes” are getting sucked up into this goofy arena of buying everything you see? I’m guilty, as is probably 95% of the people on this website are.

When you really look at it, it has become a vast money market. People who are making this stuff really got an edge. And hey, if this is what makes people happy, then do it! (but it still is crazy!)

Oh look out……………. here I come!

Just kiddin’! Great discussion guys and points to be considered on both sides. Here’s some more to soak up:

3rd world countries are truly reflective of their opportunity levels. The richer the govenment, the poorer the people (pay attention………….Kerry’s gunnin’ for office!). Tradition vs. progress. Control vs. freedom.

Living in a prosperous nation, maybe we don’t appreciate the simple things the way we should but I too disagree in feeling that wanting a bigger, faster, more technologically advanced whatch-ma-do-hummer gives us a character flaw. That should only become an issue when priorities are being ignored. If you sink the family into 10 years of high debt for a boat but don’t invest in you’re children’s education, someone might have a bone to pick. If my children are facing dusty cupboards and I walk in with a new Legend Elite, I think that’s a character flaw.

But prosperity brings the ability to reward one’s self for the fruits of their labors. Even if we used nothing but solar energy, theirs still a bigger, faster, sharper, more effective, etc. ‘something’ that will come along, out of necessity or sheer desire. I don’t think you guys should get down on yourselves for being blessed. If you’ve stepped on somebody’s toes along the way, you know what or what not to do next time. Move forward while growing as a person.

What happened to fishing? Nothing. Fishing is still fishing. Only the methods and availabilities changed. Some guy used a depth finder once and thought, “if only it would show me the fish!”. Hello graph. From there, another somebody gets a new idea for their own product or regarding another. “I can improve this!” It’s progress from some fisherman somewhere, wanting to improve something of his own experience and strives to take it to the next level. Better rods, better reels, better line, better boat, better lures, and on and on and on.

My dad rolls his eyes too but my dad didn’t have the prosperity I have. Not even now. Their lives are different. My dad knows he doesn’t “need” that stuff to fish but he seems to really enjoy watching me experience something on a level that he knew, deep inside, is a level he wish he would’ve had at my age. My dad enjoys watching my prosperity as much as I like seeing my kids better off than I had it at their age. He loves looking at all the tackle and playing with all the gear………..even using it sometimes, but he’ll still stick to his “needs”, because his life is different.

I don’t think we should confuse prosperity with greed. Purchases for materialism. Availability for frivilousness. Or participation as folly. Even if it’s “all about me”, if it’s not causing irresponsibility, is it wrong?

A guy can take $40K and buy a fancy boat, a piece of property, a very nice new vehicle, or invest it. Is any of the choices better or worse? It’s not the objects, it’s the circumstances behind the scenes that determines character. Investing may seem wiser but what good is money if you don’t do something with it? Nothing wrong in stockpiling it either. Money isn’t good or bad. It’s ammoral. It simply creates choices. Progress and prosperity has created and will continue to create choices.

Every point shared is a valid one, but the core truth lying behind this whole discussion is that there is only virtue in being virtuous. There’s no virtue in being poor. There is no virtue in being rich. If it’s your opinion that something is overkill, don’t buy it. Don’t use it. But don’t place judgment on the guy who’s created the ability to afford some luxuries just because it’s unrelatible.

I don’t understand a $20,000+ boat…………. but I’d like to!
I don’t understand a $500,000 home…………. but I’d like to!
I don’t understand living everyday doing only the things I love to do………… but I’d like to!
I don’t understand donating 1 billion dollars to charity……. but I’d like to!

If I work, and earn, and create……… the avenues that bring such understandings, I will only be in accordance to my efforts. If the next guy didn’t do that for himself, he’s not a lesser guy, he just chose differently………… and I really think we need to cut some guys some slack who have simply chosen to choose differently.

I am looking for a bigger boat with a bigger motor instead of owning 3 fishing rigs! The first half of the sentence makes more sense than the last half does…………. but I’ll likely still never own less than 2 boats. That doesn’t make me greedy, underhanded, selfish, or a lesser charactered individual. It just makes me priviledged, blessed, and very thankful for being fortunate enough to experience it. It wasn’t given to me……… I had to earn it……….

Sorry for all the WIND……….. but you know how I get! Thanks for the patience guys!

Gary, you said
“Today’s “fishing” has become a sport for the “rich”. If you don’t have the $30k rig, $200 rods, $1000 electronics (don’t forget the pretty cloths and the matching $300 rainsuits, that you see people in the boat with) you ain’t $#!+.”

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The thing that irrates me the most is the arrogance and how clicky some clubs are.
Somehow, the common bond of just going fishing is being deminished into a posing contest.
Kind of like comparing the evolution of neighborhood bars into meat market dance clubs.
If you ain’t pretty enough your just not going to be accepted.
Manufacturers perpetuate this myth, by preying on peoples desire to part of the “in” crowd.
I don’t care how someone fishes, (as long as it’s somewhat ethical). Just the fact that they like to fish will make someone OK in my book, untill they do something to disprove that.
But the love of fishing alone just doesn’t seem to be enough for a growing number of fishermen.
Maybe it’s a migration of golf country club members expanding their field of influence or power base.

This has been a good thread.

We all know hot dogs and self promoters who revele in themselves and their things. Fisherman are no different.

Some of out there make choices in life…Where we live, how we make our living, what we spend our income on and so forth. I chose to be boat poor. My house doesn’t mean anything to me. I don’t give a rip about my yard. I find employment next to the biggest lakes in the Dakotas and take income from them. I fish.

I fish because I have a sickness. Fishing is not fun, it is an obsession. I’m not too bad at it but I not a hot dog, loud mouth self promoter who acts like an SOB.

I used to be happy catching two or three walleyes or a dozen bluegills. Now I expect to catch 2 dozen walleyes everytime out regardless of the weather,during the peak times 6 dozen, if I don’t I’m disapointed. My boat, motor, electronics and gear all help me to satisfy this obsession I have.

Where is the self help program for people like me.

Hi..My name is Kevin and I’m a fishaholic

I can’t help but feel like I messed up what I was trying to say. Everyone of you is correct. I think were all correct but maybe just interpreting things a little different.

Paul, my apologies, I never meant to make you out to be a bad guy or to feel guilty.

This is a great discussion but at risk of fouling it up more I’m going to decline any further comment. But I hope to keep reading from those more able to convey their message.

no appologies needed. I there is always more than one side to every debate.