isnt it illegal to shoot wolves?

  • AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #1010207

    While I disagree with everything Chris has said, I have enjoyed this thread, and agree with those who believe we should be able to protect what is ours, whether it’s the porch dog, chickens, or family and if threatened, we should be able to stop any harm from happening.

    I’m betting there are those who do, and say nothing, and right or not, I’d agree with their decision.

    While it seems something should be done, there seems to be a lacking of trust when it comes to the DNR, I think the working force does their job well, but once you get management and politicians involved it goes to heck.

    Should there be a season on wolf’s?
    I don’t know, I know many of the farmers want the deer gone so it seems some say yes, others no, not sure where middle ground is on this one.

    Not sure what the answer is, but I’ve learned a bit more about wolf’s and I appreciate that, thanks.

    BTW I’M KIDDING CHRIS, anybody who almost names their boat after a funny car can’t be all bad.
    You do make some good points, but those like Pug do too.

    Al

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #1010208

    So in summary……………..

    Wolves are eating Deer.
    We have to many Wolves.
    Mn. DNR can’t count.
    Washington is doing nothing to control the Wolves.

    And to the OP, yes shooting Wolves is illegal.

    OK, I think that sums it up.

    redneck
    Rosemount
    Posts: 2627
    #1010209

    Look to South Dakota and their Mountain Lion problem. I hunted the Back Hills for many years chasing deer and never saw a Mountain Lion and the deer herd was excellent. Now from the people I talk to there the Mountain Lions have totally changed the deer picture and deer and elk suffer from loss of their young to the Mountain Lions. Our natural world is changing and man is not doing a good job of regulating that change. There have always been mountain lions in the Black Hills but the numbers have exploded over the last ten years or so just like the wolf numbers. I am not wise enough to understand exactly why but I know that putting a season on both the animals will never exterminate them—just get their numbers down to a manageable level.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 22456
    #1010214

    Quote:


    So in summary……………..

    Wolves are eating Deer. AND ELK AND MOOSE AND ???
    We have to many Wolves. SOME AREAS HAVE TOO MANY WOLVES
    Mn. DNR can’t count. DON’T KNOW WHAT TO SAY HERE
    Washington is doing nothing to control the Wolves. YES

    And to the OP, yes shooting Wolves is illegal. BRAGGING ABOUT IT SHOULD BE…

    OK, I think that sums it up.


    QUITE EASILY

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1010216

    Quote:


    So in summary……………..

    Wolves are eating Deer.
    We have to many Wolves.
    Mn. DNR can’t count.
    Washington is doing nothing to control the Wolves.

    And to the OP, yes shooting Wolves is illegal.

    OK, I think that sums it up.



    Well played.

    I’m done with the wolf management discussion, I think we’ve covered it all.

    I think what you are seeing with the explosion of predators like mountain lions and wolves is them catching up with the explosion of deer and possibly other prey. I’d be interested in seeing historical population counts of deer in say the last 100 years. There is no doubt, in my opinion, that deer have had it good for the last 20 years or so. Limited predation and unlimited food from people farming and clearing the land.

    I am amazed at the urban places deer live now. I live between cross town and 494 and we have seen deer (as well as turkey and fox) across the street in the cemetery. I also know that there is at least 1 buck, 1 doe and however many their fawn have stuck around, that live in the woods at Riverplace in Minnapolis.

    arklite881south
    Posts: 5660
    #1010220

    Quote:


    Chris-fundamentally I’m agreeing with you.

    Quote:


    BTW reintroduction of BISON?? Kind of tongue in cheek if you didn’t catch that.


    The bison comment went over my head, enlighten me? I don’t always listen to what I’m saying…at least according to my wife.


    LOL!! I know this is a brutally long thread to try catch up on everything. The Bison comment was again a bit tongue and cheek. That is always tough to read online. It had been suggested we should grow Wolf numbers to whatever they were in the past. My analogy used Bison in that if that theory were to hold any water that we also look to reintroduce and build all past game species back to previous numbers. Why should one animal be placed on a pedestal while others are virtually extinct and nobody cares?? Just unlucky animals?? Elk, Bison….. Of course this is not realistic, and was SIMPLY an analogy to shed light on a point. My inital point is that our world has changed. MAN….. YES YOU AND I changed it from day one. Game was always managed in some fashion. Now it has to be managed in a more organized arena. Expecting all game species to be managed to numbers from the past is simply short sighted and terribly off based. Too many variables have changed in regards to habitat and general sprawl for one. Yes MAN has changed the ECO system, and MAN now needs to manage accordingly. What was 200 years ago is NOT today, and I hope this is not a shock to anyone. Just seems simple to me for some reason. Apparently I should have been in Big Game Management.

    reverend
    Rhinelander, WI
    Posts: 1117
    #1010230

    Ahhh, NOW I get it!
    Yeah, “historic” levels of bison would be interesting…estimates of up to 60 million of them once roaming the plains states. Now THAT would be interesting!(And messy…what would a bison strike do to a Subaru?? )
    Yep-since day 1 we’ve pretty much affected our environment, and it’s a good argument that we’ve now affected most eco-systems SO drastically that we have no choice but to manage them. And yes…while we’ve come a long ways since the market gunning days, we’re still really, really bad at it.
    It really is a wonder that we haven’t managed to exterminate ourselves yet…

    Thanks for the update and good catch! I think sitting around fidgeting and arguing about wolves while waiting for good ice has made me a little denser than normal…also something my wife has pointed out.
    With that, I REALLY have to rest myself on this thread for awhile…somebody start spamming the Ice-fishing forum and give me some new stuff to read! Thanks everybody, I learned a lot on this one!
    -Rev

    arklite881south
    Posts: 5660
    #1010234

    Quote:


    While I disagree with everything Chris has said, I have enjoyed this thread, and agree with those who believe we should be able to protect what is ours, whether it’s the porch dog, chickens, or family and if threatened, we should be able to stop any harm from happening.

    I’m betting there are those who do, and say nothing, and right or not, I’d agree with their decision.

    While it seems something should be done, there seems to be a lacking of trust when it comes to the DNR, I think the working force does their job well, but once you get management and politicians involved it goes to heck.

    Should there be a season on wolf’s?
    I don’t know, I know many of the farmers want the deer gone so it seems some say yes, others no, not sure where middle ground is on this one.

    Not sure what the answer is, but I’ve learned a bit more about wolf’s and I appreciate that, thanks.

    BTW I’M KIDDING CHRIS, anybody who almost names their boat after a funny car can’t be all bad.
    You do make some good points, but those like Pug do too.

    Al


    That’s all a guy can ask for Allen. I appreciate your open mind to this. I want people to know the facts. Thus I try to leave opinion based theory on the sidelines. Still our current management is opinion based. BTW my information merely word for word comes from the International Wolf Center’s own data. So if you disagree with my numbers or projections than you disagree with the International Wolf Center. Take it up with them. I have tried not to shoot holes in the estimating process although most might agree it has a lot of room for error. Does anyone here even have a clue how they come to 3400 wolves?? I have no better ability to count wolves than those being paid to do so. I simply state I DO however spend far more time where wolves live than ANYONE participating on this thread or in Washington. Most of us here see a big change, and we will be considered biased because we happen to want a healthy deer herd. This still does not change the fact that many states are experiencing similiar things that we are here. Some of those states have been able to take action. We are idle. This is raising the blood pressure of many who live on the wolf range. THUS………..BINGO…….what is happening in some areas that started this thread to begin with. Some guys are testing the law. Yep you can label those guys poachers. Those same guys will label the mismanagement and decimation of a deer herd an EPIC FAIL. I know this comes in complete astonoishment to some of you, but the government has made a few poor moves before. I personally hope we have the intellectual power to balance a federal budget. Some may say that too is a tall task to ask for. If they don’t I presume everyone here will follow the letter of the law regardless of the bind your put into.

    IMHO here deer in town or at the park truly has little to do with what is happening on the wolf range. In fact it is quite similiar to comparing fish populations on Lake Mazaska to Lake Superior. Deer management along with Wolf management must clearly be done on a region by region effort. We all have different variables to consider and one broad stroke is simply off based.

    dan stien
    Waunakee, Wisconsin
    Posts: 400
    #1010311

    I am done making any points on this thread and will only offer information that anyone can look up. There are multiple way of estimating populations. The formulas are complicated but if you go to USGS ( United States Geographical Society) and look up a program called “presence” it may give you some idea of what it is invloved to estimate populations. This math in this program is complicated and long and that is why it is more of put in numbers and get results back. It is a much more accurate way of estimating compared to years ago, but again it is just an estimate and with any estimate there is a margin of error so when you read or have ben given an estimate it is god to know what that margin of error is it could be a big difference. For those of you who have field cameras out you can do some of your estimating too. It would be more accurate with more cameras but you could get a rough idea of say a buck to doe ratio for the area you are hunting or just on your land if you farm or whatever your reason may be. It does involve some work, google ( Lincoln, peterson Estimator ). This is a simpler formula to use to get a rough idea. If anyone wants to know more let me know and I will be happy to explain it but it is a lengthy explanation for posting here. I do not know if this will clear up any mysteries in estimating numbers but I try to offer what I can.

    I have to agree with Reverend it is nice to see a good discussion with differeing opinions without getting personal.

    For all of you heading out hunting or fishing good luck I have to get back to hitting the books, wish I could be out there with you all.

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #1026103

    Sorry to bring this back to the top, but good news as far as I’m concerned.

    Possible Wolf Season 2012

    Outdraft
    Western Wi.
    Posts: 1149
    #1026260

    They accidently get gut shot on purpose every year, but the ones who brag about are the ones who get caught, and yes it is illegal

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1026268

    Just in case the MN DNR announcement today went unnoticed.

    Quote:


    Limited wolf season possible in 2012

    Minnesota wildlife officials have begun to plan for a limited gray wolf hunting and trapping season in late 2012.

    This action follows last month’s announcement that wolves will return to state management
    Jan. 27, following roughly 35 years of federal protection.

    Tom Landwehr, commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said the agency is taking a “deliberate and science-based” approach to implementing initial wolf hunting and trapping seasons.

    “Our job, as a natural resource agency, is to implement the state’s Wolf Management Plan, which includes provisions for public taking of wolves,” said Landwehr. “That means we will be taking actions to ensure the long-term survival of the species while also addressing conflicts between wolves and humans.”

    Landwehr said the wolf’s recovery in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Upper Michigan is a national success story. The Minnesota DNR, he said, is committed to continuing that success.

    Last July, the Minnesota Legislature eliminated a five-year waiting period for a wolf season following delisting of the animal from federal protection. In the weeks ahead, DNR biologists will begin to identify wolf management harvest units and develop other criteria specific to a Minnesota season. Components of the proposed season framework must still be approved by the Legislature, and a chance for public comment will be provided later this year.

    “Without a history of regulated wolf seasons, we don’t know what kind of hunter and trapper interest and success rate to expect,” said Dan Stark, DNR large carnivore specialist. For these reasons, he said, it is necessary to be conservative during initial seasons.

    Stark said the DNR proposal would manage wolves as a prized and high-value fur species by setting the season when pelts are prime, limiting the take through a lottery and requiring animals be registered.

    This approach, he said, is different than simply allowing hunters to shoot a wolf as an “incidental take” while primarily pursuing another species such as deer. “Minnesota is different than other areas where wolf hunting is offered, in part, because we have much higher hunter densities and a more compressed big-game hunting season,” Stark said.

    “Our proposal is a separate season that takes into account when pelts are prime and have their highest value,” Stark said. “This approach will provide hunters and trappers the opportunity to specifically target wolves while minimizing conflicts with other hunting seasons.”

    Minnesota has an estimated 3,000 wolves. Wolf numbers and their distribution have remained stable for the past 10 years.

    Stark said the DNR presented its wolf hunting proposal to lawmakers earlier this week during a legislative hearing. The agency will be seeking additional authorization from the Legislature this session to offer a wolf license and implement management strategies. It will also take public comment prior to finalizing and implementing a wolf season.

    “The wolf population has been fully recovered in Minnesota for many years,” said Stark. “Our hunting and trapping season approach will be designed to keep it that way. No one wants to see this species needing federal protection again.”


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